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#53404 - 04/24/11 10:28 AM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: Jake999]
Diavolo Offline
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I think this fully answers the question:

 Originally Posted By: mabon2011
This issue came up during several battles I had with Satanists. The Satanists were confused as to what Luciferianism was. They asked what are the axioms of Luciferianism? “Axioms” a brilliant word, a set of self evident truths that a Luciferian would recognise without needing to explain it. We need to find these Universal truths – the axioms – and it is around these axioms that Luciferians can construct their worldview and separate themselves from Satanists.


D.

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#53416 - 04/24/11 07:13 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: Diavolo]
mabon2010 Offline
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Here follows my list of twenty Luciferian axioms. Each Luciferian has their own interpretations;

1. Express the human potential.
2. Go beyond.
3. Embrace the whole.
4. Embrace the simple.
5. Embrace the magical.
6. Embrace growth.
7. Embrace the dyad.
8. Self first.
9. No master but self.
10.Responsible self.
11.No limits.
12.No boundaries.
13.Feet in both worlds.
14.In concordance.
15.The thinker.
16.The wise.
17.The philosopher.
18.The creative.
19.The doer.
20.The enabler.


Edited by mabon2010 (04/24/11 07:15 PM)
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Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

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#53417 - 04/24/11 07:23 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: mabon2010]
Diavolo Offline
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That's not the point my friend. The point is that you guys create a label first, apparently because you want something different, and only then, after people point out there is no own content, run around like headless chickens desperately trying to scrap something together.

Normally it is the other way around and people have philosophical differences with something, develop that which is different, and only then use a descriptive label to distinguish it.

You guys are shiny examples of what I called “wannabespecialism” since that is evidently the major drive behind this all.

Do you start to see why none takes that Luciferianism of yours serious?

D.

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#53419 - 04/24/11 07:53 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: mabon2010]
XiaoGui17 Offline
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Registered: 10/21/09
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 Originally Posted By: mabon2010
Here follows my list of twenty Luciferian axioms. Each Luciferian has their own interpretations;

An axiom is a concrete statement. "The _____" is not an axiom, but a concept. Many of these are directives/commandments/imperatives instead of declarations of fact. Sheesh, even the Discordians can come up with axioms:

"There is no Goddess but Goddess and She is Your Goddess."

That is an axiom--a statement of fact, a complete sentence. You know: subject, verb, object? Do Luciferians not believe in grammar?


Edited by XiaoGui17 (04/24/11 07:54 PM)
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#53421 - 04/24/11 08:51 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: XiaoGui17]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
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I can't say that I affirm any of Mabon's axioms except 2 and 4. The omega steadily reveals to open the portal to Sitra Ahra. Lucifer's light will only be darkness to the eyes of the blind. The burning rays of gnosis are beyond the limited media of words.
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#53430 - 04/25/11 12:43 AM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: Hegesias]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3928
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
I am starting to see the problem. How can mabon establish a basis for his philosophy if he doesn't understand what an axiomatic premise IS.

An axiom is a self evident statement of fact. The sun is hot. Gravity pulls toward center of mass. The world is adversarial. These are 'axioms'

Nada single one of your 20 soundbites qualifies. You suck at philosophy, mabon.
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#53433 - 04/25/11 02:53 AM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: mabon2010]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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If this:

 Quote:
Each walker of the Luciferian path creates their own meanings, symbols and philosophies.


is true.

Then why say this:
 Quote:
All Anton LaVey has done is taken a load of pre-existing ideas and assimilated them into his own interpretation.


That does nothing to validate your claim that Luiferianism exists as a coherent and original philosophy. At least Anton LaVey didn't deny the fact that his Satanism was an amalgamation of ideas from others who came before him.

 Quote:
Jeremy Crow, a leading Luciferian had this to say on MySatan today:

"I am not as hardcore about distinguishing Luciferianism from Satanism as most Luciferians tend to be, but there is a difference. I don't require your agreement for this to be true in my life."

I concur with Jeremy Crow.


First off - what makes someone a "leading Luciferian"?

Secondly - if Luciferians create their own meanings etc, can't any one of you claim to be a "leading Luciferian"? And if so, doesn't that defeat the purpose of considering anyone to be a "leading Luciferian"?

Third - "I don't require your agreement for this to be true in my life" is just a retarded thing to say.

If you want to call yourself a Luciferian, Rastafarian, Pescatarian or Michelangelo Cornwallace Beethoven Arch Duke of the Principalties of Happy Go Merry Fuck Yourself in the Ass Land Esq. PhD - fine. But there is a chance that people, when inquiring as to what the hell you are talking about, might not take you seriously when you essentially describe it as 'whatever I say it is'.

You may have honestly thought you had found (created?) something new and unique but you were surely mistaken. There's really no need to feel bad about it. There have been a lot of people that have existed before you, I and everyone else who currently lives. Coming up with something completely new, especially something like a philosophy - which as a school of thought has existed since man could think - is a lofty if not wholly unattainable goal.

There is much to be said for innovation but there is certainly nothing wrong with going with what works.
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#53435 - 04/25/11 03:58 AM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
mabon2010 Offline
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@ Diavolo
There is nothing official, formal or dogmatic in Luciferianism unlike say Laveyan Satanism which has its handbook (Satanic Bible), its "Church" the Church of Satan, its "guru" Anton LaVey. Since you have those type of structures you have something already pre-packaged to hang onto, foundations to build on. Not much thought or effort has to go into being a Laveyan - buy the book, pick up the membership card, follow the handbook and label yourself as such. Nothing like this exists in Luciferianism, and so if this means you have contempt for us, then so be it.

@ XiaoGui17
The 20 axioms I put together are in my own words, they express the spirit of what Luciferianism is. There is nothing formal in Luciferianism, you will have to look beyond words and formailties to grasp what I mean behind my humble attempts to construct them for you.

@ Hegesias
I understand your metaphors.

@ Dan Dread
I am sure I could convert these simple words into such formal axioms like your own, it does not make them less real and self evident to a Luciferian, even if you remain blind to them.

6Satan6Archist6
Luciferianism does not exist or have to validate itself to any external master. It becomes alive to the individual walker of the path.

To be "leading" one only has to be a "leader" by pushing forward into new territories of Luciferianism. Jeremy Crow is a founder of the Luciferian Research Society, he is "leader" of the Ordo Luciferi, his contributions to Luciferianism figures in the top 10 of Google searches, he is a major contributor to the promotion of the path to outsiders. He has earned the right to be "leading".

Luciferianism is very much a DIY spiritual path, nothing is pre-packaged. Much what a Luciferian does is subjective and done on instinct. Certainly there is an argument for an objective writing down of many of the ideas and concepts of Luciferianism which is behind the move for getting Lucipedia.net off the ground. Of course I have my own individual interpretations, symbols, mythos, ideas and "process" for Luciferianism called Monadic Luciferianism, but that is mine, not others. The risk of mechanising, formalising or structuring Luciferianism has the potential risk of undermining the basis of Luciferianism, that each walks their own path free of the chains of bondage, which includes dogma. Fine line is walked when one starts to place structures on this path.


Edited by mabon2010 (04/25/11 03:58 AM)
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#53439 - 04/25/11 08:25 AM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: mabon2010]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Are you kidding? What you have effectively said is you are making luciferianism up as you go along.

This means the word 'luciferian' describes nothing but the day to day activities of 'mabon'. Yet you still use the word 'us'.

One can only assume you have multiple personality disorder.
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#53443 - 04/25/11 10:03 AM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: Dan_Dread]
mabon2010 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/10
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Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Are you kidding? What you have effectively said is you are making luciferianism up as you go along.


BINGO! That is exactly what I am saying!

Each Luciferian constructs their own unique path. Those axioms I produced for your pleasure are the only thing that "unites" us.
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#53445 - 04/25/11 10:38 AM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: mabon2010]
Diavolo Offline
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No my friend, the point is there is nothing worth being called a Luciferian philosophy besides the inevitable urge to be one, based, solely and completely, upon this urge to be different.

To be leading, one does not require as much a leader and those to be led, as possessing the knowledge where to lead to and for what reason.

This is a bit like Moses talking to the crowd stating; we are the Chosen and I will lead you, somewhere, somewhen, and we'll get there the moment I figured out what the heck this Chosen implies.

No surprise it took him forty years to get out of that desert.

D.

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#53449 - 04/25/11 11:49 AM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: Diavolo]
mabon2010 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
"LEADING" "LEADER" "AUTHORITY"
I accept the arguments that there are no "leading" no "leader" and no "authority" in Luciferianism.

EGREGORE AND Anton LaVey
It is my observation that it is argued that Luciferianism is no distinct group, but are really just something somehow existing in reference to Anton LaVey.

Luciferianism, whilst it apparently has no structure, dogma or official authorities like Laveyan Satanism does, has a point of reference that allows a Luciferian to say they are a Luciferian as distinct from say a Laveyan or a Christian, but also to participate in a group project like for instance Lucipedia. This reference point is the egregore known as Lucifer.

In a match between Anton LaVey and the Egregore (Lucifer) there is no contest. Anton LaVey has x-thousand followers harking back to the 1960's. The Luciferian egregore harks back thousands of years back to when Prometheus was created and beyond. Anton LaVey and the egregore he has created is not as strong as the Luciferian egregore due to time, numbers of participants over the time they existed and the spiritual and emotional investment in the egregores. The huge failure of the Laveyan egregore is that lack of spiritual and emotional basis of its creation, so already it is starting to fracture and die soon after the death of Anton LaVey.

AXIOMS
All paths have axioms. Luciferians are primarily lone wolves in the LHP, they never needed to be objective, to have to validate themselves to others outside of their own subjective experience. The fact it was all subjective than objective, and that they (Luciferians) were working by instinct rather than by externalised constructs as like Laveyans do will not invalidate their path. It just means work is being done to extract what is subjective and then put it to paper. If the outsider has a problem with this, well I can only tell it how it is, though why should we have to validate ourselves to others? I do so, because I need a surface to strike my match against to produce a flame, and thus it is useful to my own apotheosis, and to see what may need to be done as per Lucipedia to answer such questions as are raised by Laveyans.


Edited by mabon2010 (04/25/11 11:52 AM)
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#53450 - 04/25/11 12:04 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: mabon2010]
Diavolo Offline
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Look my friend, what we are doing here is, besides what you interpret and admittedly is a degree of contempt, is pointing at an undeniable weakness radiating throughout that which you are trying to sell. It is an empty shell and as long as you keep trying to fool us into believing it is a solid product, you are also fooling yourself.

A schism from anything first starts with a disagreement, then a realization why exactly one disagrees and a development of these. Then slowly it might grow into something separate and distinguishable. When I look at the ToS or ONA, or even JK's approach of postmodern Satanism, I see content.

Yours lacks and is “made up”, hastily improvised, as a desperate attempt trying to defend against rather obvious remarks. It does not look as if you care much about content and put most importance upon appearance.

If you want to be a Luciferian, quit behaving like a child, and put some actual effort into developing it, instead of wasting time defending that which is currently nothing but a label.

D.

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#53451 - 04/25/11 12:46 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: mabon2010]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Interesting, I differ insofar as regarding my subjecture as false, yet more to the point, my regarding my subjecture as false and working to negate everything as false, necessity is maybe revealed, even so there is not point as ego is already formed and faulty, having been influenced by all manner of unnecessary things. As Skaff mentioned before on these boards, true comedy lies in excessive misfortune. I sometimes laugh at peoples complexity as I see no point in even thinking about nor acknowledging a faulty earth but to pick out the necessity and natural stimuli.

The whole earth needs to be wiped clean of civilisation so man will evolve and start again, we are built on a faulty foundation, the current earth is only a practice round at best and so shall the next be slightly improved yet I'd regard improvement as to be wild and uninhibited, the point of no return would be when we evolve to complete self mastery and realise that our emotions are unnecessary. 2nd density consciousness is present among the animal kingdom, we are in 3rd density consciousness, when we evolve to 4th density there will be no duality, we will probably be dispassionate robots of flesh, regarding one another as expendable assets, working toward technological advancement without emotion.

I just read an article that made me laugh in disgust, it was called "Do animals have emotions?" and the line that got me was "Many scientists now believe that animals feel emotions too". As if such a thing had to be intricately formalised since the birth of civilisation till now when the great revelation came to the advanced minds of modern scientists.

Every living creature feels emotion in order to survive, humans simply regard themselves as having superior everything to animals because humans are tantalised in subjective absurdity that is all unnecessary, making themselves more stimulated, which does not mean we feel more than animals, it only means we can convince ourselves that we do.

What was disgusting about the article was that the apparently enlightened humans can feel things like , "jealously, embarrassment and love", these aforementioned "emotions" are moral abstractions and they aren't anything but mental illness or at best, unnecessary psychodrama for cultivating stimulation, unconsciously, such abstraction has no place in nature and such is subvert detachment, because we do not live out our propensity and create unnecessary complex subjecture to convince ourselves we are having a good quality of life when most of us will never bathe in the blood of the hunt nor take women as we please, we have to settle for a life of slave morality and inadequate compensatory stimulation/satiation. Animals feel fear and have aggression, they also have empathy which spans affection and sadism. Just observe a wolf as he rips the groins from large prey, look at wolves displaying active submission, or a primate who's infant has died. Simply because man can detach themselves by analysing and totally misunderstanding himself does he feel he is enlightened.
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#53458 - 04/25/11 01:41 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: Hegesias]
mabon2010 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Diavolo

WEAKNESS
It appears because Luciferianism lack the sort of structures, rules and authorities as say that of Laveyanism you think my path as weak, but to a Luciferian this is a strength. The Laveyan has a jigsaw puzzle with a picture that is already known, and you therefore would have to conform to that established picture. The puzzle that is Luciferianism has no such picture to work towards, so that means the resulting work that the Luciferian puts together when they fit the pieces together, is more reflective of their own uniqueness and individuality, which puts them closer to apotheosis than any pre-packaged path like Laveyanism could. I see only strength in Luciferianism by its lack of structure and packaging.

SCHISM
There is nothing to create a schism about. I have never considered myself a Satanist, I consider myself as part of the Left Hand Path of which Satanism is just one branch and Luciferianism is another. I am happy to debate with you as it is useful to me and to Luciferianism, but I have no need to fight to create a schism from Satanism because Luciferianism has always been separate from you. If there be conflict, it is only because someone may try (unsuccessfully) to assimilate Luciferianism into their little "empire".

DEVELOPMENT
That is the joy of being a Luciferian, to carve out our own meanings, symbols and unique path in Luciferianism on our way to apotheosis.
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