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#53462 - 04/25/11 02:09 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: mabon2010]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
First, I'm not a Laveyan, as should be quite obvious.

What you lack is content, evidently from this flows a lack of structure, rules and authority, since those simply can't appear if there is nothing they can build upon. It seems hard to get this through and every rebuttal is dodging this critique with responses side-stepping the issue.

Also, a schism, while originating in religious split-offs, applies here too. The basics are obviously from Satanism and you (try to) reshape them into something else; Luciferianism. I seriously don't mind that and am rather satisfied you don't insist on belonging to the satanic “empire” since some evolutions here are already depressing enough. That you distance yourself from it, I can only applaud to. As such, there is no conflict with Satanism and all criticism only flows from individuals pointing at a clearly copied concept and a clearly lack of differentiation.

So again, stop defending something which clearly is “under construction” by building a mythos while the obvious priority should be on the very development itself. If you don't focus upon that, Luciferianism will remain nothing but a fad. Close to a decade ago, I've seen similar attempts and when looking around these days, very few of them managed to survive.

D.

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#53468 - 04/25/11 03:10 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: Diavolo]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Diavolo

NOT LAVEYAN
You are not Laveyan, nor am I.

CONTENT
I thought I made it clear there is no structure, authority, dogma to Luciferianism. There are axioms, there is the Luciferian egregore, and there is the overall aim to achieve apotheosis, beyond these three things the Luciferian builds their own path.

SCHISM
There is no schism, for Luciferianism is one path of LHP, Satanism is another. There is no conflict, a debate perhaps.

"UNDER CONSTRUCTION"
The only construction in Luciferianism is each Luciferian constructing their own paths on their way to apotheosis. What is there to defend?
_________________________
Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

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#53469 - 04/25/11 03:15 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: mabon2010]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Hegesias

SIMPLICITY
I get from your words that you try for the simple by ripping away the junk in things. An idea that I agree with.
_________________________
Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

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#53470 - 04/25/11 03:22 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: mabon2010]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Ah well, I give up, this is as productive as trying to reason with a Jehova.

D.

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#53476 - 04/25/11 04:37 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: Diavolo]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Well you'd be wose off trying to get me to disbelieve in Conan mythology, I won't give it up I tell you, never, Conan is real!

Anyway, we are all people aren't we, and if we keep trying to be too different we'll end up with all sorts off odd ends and scraps to cling to because the positive ideals are probably more common than we think, yet differ superficially?

@Mabon, I think some of these other folks are trying to relate to you and tell you it's not so bad to have some things the same?
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#53479 - 04/25/11 04:59 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: Hegesias]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Hegesias

I found the debate here useful, and I enjoyed it. I achieved gnosis on a number of points, which I thank those who participated for. Each walks their own path, which in order to achieve apotheosis may mean being unable to conform to the worldview of others.
_________________________
Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

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#54016 - 05/06/11 04:32 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: mabon2010]
neurosys Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/01/07
Posts: 26
Loc: san diego, CA
I thought luciferians were theists, but you said on like page 2 that they were free of gods. I though if you were a theist you believed that lucifer is real, not symbolic, aka a deity. I MAY BE COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT ALL OF THIS.

The first time I read LaVey I was like 11 years old, I remember putting down TSB and saying wait, I don't believe in god, so satan must also be fiction. Years later around 25 years of age, I came across some occult pdfs and I just cant resist a forbidden tome and theres my old pal Anton. This time I caught the bits that had eluded me in my youth, the bits about it being a philosophy, with no need for the deity delusion. I was so pleased to find that I could embrace a philosophy without sacrificing my belief that deities live only in the human mind. So to me, the theist issue is kind of a deal breaker. I also like how I am not compelled to agree with everything Lavey believes, mainly, his obsession with fat chicks, no offense ladies but I like em slim :P. I enjoy knowing the author of my chosen philosophy is a living breathing human, with fears and faults, perversions and pride, etc..etc..
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#54021 - 05/06/11 05:31 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: neurosys]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
 Originally Posted By: neurosys
I thought luciferians were theists, but you said on like page 2 that they were free of gods. I though if you were a theist you believed that lucifer is real, not symbolic, aka a deity. I MAY BE COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT ALL OF THIS.


Luciferians reject worship of entities therefore are no theists. They see Lucifer as a symbolic aspect in all things that encourage us to reach our full human potentiality i.e apotheosis.
_________________________
Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

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#54034 - 05/06/11 09:17 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: mabon2010]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"They see Lucifer as a symbolic aspect.."

Lucifer, Satan, Set, Prometheus, the Devil, and etc...
Most Satanists here view them as symbolic or archetypes.

So Mabon if you don't worship lucifer like a theist, then why do the other Lucifeians who worship Lucifer as a deity use the same name.

or is there another name we should use for the Luciferians who worship Lucifer like a deity?

M
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Fuck em if they can't take a joke
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#54041 - 05/06/11 11:57 PM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: Morgan]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
I think Mabon is just making this shit up as he goes along.

He's spending so much time trying to invent/defend Luciferianism that he doesn't know who the fuck he really is.

Mabon, go live in a cave in the Himalayas for a while. Meditate upon your existence. Just live your life, quit trying to ascribe labels to every goddamned thing. You're smothering yourself by trying to stitch a quilt of mis-matched philosophies. It's sad.

I don't call myself anything except "Human".
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Nothing is sacred.

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#54047 - 05/07/11 04:26 AM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: Nemesis]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
He's suffering a severe case of Listitis; must make lists... must define... must classify.

I heard the symptoms can be so severe, people become incapable of actually doing something.

D.

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#54050 - 05/07/11 04:58 AM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: Diavolo]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Morgan
Those that worship Lucifer as an entity are Theistic Satanists, not Luciferians. There is no such thing as a Theistic Luciferian, just idiots pretending to be Luciferians.

@ Nemesis
A lot of what is Luciferianism is a self-made path.

@ Diavolo
You asked questions along the lines of wanting definitions and lists, so I provided them.
_________________________
Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

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#54051 - 05/07/11 05:42 AM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: mabon2010]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Now stop and take a good look at all this and realize what you are doing.

There are no theistic luciferians, only idiots pretending to be. Doesn't this too feel quite familiar?

They are right, you are so desperately trying to create something, you at the same time destroy any credibility it might get. All over the internet, you show the same condition; Listitis. It's definition after definition after definition. They change constantly while you're improvising. Luciferianism seems to be the path of the shopping-list.

Worst of all, it clearly shows there's no meat to the bone; only desire.

D.

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#54055 - 05/07/11 09:36 AM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: Diavolo]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Diavolo
Lists, definitions... what is wrong with that? The Luciferian paradigm is being placed into an objective and refined context, partly due to your questions and issues you are raising.

Lists and definitions are easier on the brain than a vast essay which risks TL:DR syndrome.

For example, I have a a list of 20 axioms, which though they are minimalist and may not be costructed in the classic long winded way are easy to remember and to understand. The axiom "self first" is something all LHP walkers will recognise. From these 20 axioms I have 20 dimensions to allow me to format arguments and decisions either using the Socratic Method, Deduction, Dialectic or if forced by Inductive reasoning.

As to no meat on the bone, are you merely complaining that Luciferianism should be more complicated than it needs to be? Take ONA philosophy for instance, that is highly complicated, but it should not need be.


Edited by mabon2010 (05/07/11 09:38 AM)
Edit Reason: spelling
_________________________
Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

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#54056 - 05/07/11 10:00 AM Re: About NWO, Illuminati, and their claim to sata [Re: mabon2010]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
This might be a surprise but I don't consider the ONA philosophy highly complicated at all. The praxis is, even if that isn't as much complicated as it is demanding. And that is where the emphasis lies, in ONA and in Satanism; a practical path, not a list of easy to digest axioms people have to memorize.

When I observe you, I not only see a Moses but, at the same time, someone playing the burning bush. You invent your “chosen people”, invent the “promised land” and then appoint yourself as their savior. I can predict with certainty there will be no exodus, nor an arrival at the land of milk and honey. You'll find out that slaves only dream of freedom and if they'd really desire it, they'd not need to be led.

Luciferianism seems to be nothing but a vehicle serving a need, a crude and sloppy copy where the real importance lies solely in what you perceive as your role in it.

D.

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