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#43542 - 10/10/10 10:51 AM What the hell is wrong with people??
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
After hearing about the gay teen suicides, this follows. I don't understand this at all and I'm not about to pretend to either. The viciousness displayed by the 9 people that commit these acts in this story is sickening, to say the least. I'm just wondering, what the hell is wrong with people? I hope they get their "justice" in jail!

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/bronx/accused_bronx_bomb_plotters_found_j80nBNqNinmzSeL2arAmQP
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#43544 - 10/10/10 12:29 PM Re: What the hell is wrong with people?? [Re: Nyte]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2521
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Nyte
I'm just wondering, what the hell is wrong with people?

When you use a term like "wrong", you're prestating a moral bias or absolute: that you know what is "right", and everyone else is expected to agree with you.

In the case of human social issues, such as religion & sex, individuals have all sorts of opinions & preferences. Communities of humans often form around like-opinions & like-preferences. These may coagulate into community norms, standards, taboos, laws, prejudices.

If you're a member of a community and decide to hold a different opinion, or pursue a different practice, you will meet a mixture of unofficial toleration, official toleration, unofficial resistance, official resistance. The exact response is to some extent based on how conspicuous you are/try to be, and also upon others' predispositions.

Unofficial toleration is easiest. You maintain as low a profile as possible, and others endeavor to "not notice" you [so that they don't feel they have to take a formal position].

Official toleration raises the bar. Now you are being public and "pushy". You not only want to be & do what you want, but you want other people to acknowledge it and state for the record that it's just as OK as their/the community's normality. You may get laws passed to force them to do so. You may feel that you must force the issue by insisting upon your "normality" in every part, every enclave of the society.

In short, the community is expected not just to unofficially or officially "endure" you, but to make and practice a formal statement that your "normality" is as good, proper, natural, and valid as the traditional. established one. This is where some individuals snap, resulting in unofficial resistance. This can take mild or harsh forms.

Take Satanism. As discussed in other threads here, some professed Satanists are private about it; others are "flexibly public"; still others aren't satisfied unless they stuff it in everyone else's face and make them eat it. In each case you will get a different reaction by others.
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#43546 - 10/10/10 01:31 PM Re: What the hell is wrong with people?? [Re: Nyte]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I think what the people in question were actually attacking is that which they see and themselves and despise. I mean, sodomizing another dude with a plunger or baseball bat is a pretty homo thing to do.

They were upset because they have latent homosexual feelings, and, not knowing how to deal with it, went out and attacked some gay guys. By beating them up they wont be suspected of wanting to fuck them - which is what they really wanted.

Homophobia is solely the realm of people who aren't comfortable with their own sexuality. That is why, I think, so many guys take major offense to being called a "fag".

From "SLC Punk":
 Originally Posted By: Eddie
The problem with somebody giving you shit about being gay... it's not that they're wrong about you, it's that they're giving you shit.
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#43547 - 10/10/10 02:02 PM Re: What the hell is wrong with people?? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3812
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
This is a good example of what makes the judeo-christian memeplex, or more specifically the practice of denying ones own nature, dangerous and unhealthy.
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#43548 - 10/10/10 09:04 PM Re: What the hell is wrong with people?? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Lamar Offline
member


Registered: 02/03/10
Posts: 226
Loc: Alabama
Gays are taking the place of black people. Back then people were racist against the blacks and threatened them and killed them ect. Same thing with the gays these days. It's ridiculous.
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#43550 - 10/10/10 09:18 PM Re: What the hell is wrong with people?? [Re: Lamar]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
You say that as if the persecution of gay people is something new. Yes, at one point it isn't as taboo as it is today but it was also more taboo in the past as well. I don't think there was ever a point in history when such a large portion of society were accepting of the homosexual lifestyle. Save for maybe the days of ancient Greece. ;\)
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#43552 - 10/11/10 01:01 AM Re: What the hell is wrong with people?? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Autodidact Offline
member


Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 428
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
 Originally Posted By: Nyte
I'm just wondering, what the hell is wrong with people?

When you use a term like "wrong", you're prestating a moral bias or absolute: that you know what is "right", and everyone else is expected to agree with you.

In the case of human social issues, such as religion & sex, individuals have all sorts of opinions & preferences. Communities of humans often form around like-opinions & like-preferences. These may coagulate into community norms, standards, taboos, laws, prejudices.


This is baseline domesticated primate behavior. Forming a group (or community or tribe or clan or organization) creates an "us" and a "them". Amongst the many things that spring from that are "right" and "wrong". If you were a different person, Nyte, you might be agreeing them. Picture everybody as just a screaming monkey with a club (attacking a monolith...) and it will make more sense.

As 6Satan6Archist6 said, they see something they recognize in themselves, and one of the things people hate most is seeing their "flaws" in someone else. Too perfect a mirror, indeed.

(PS: love the SLC Punk quote - underrated movie :-) )
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#43555 - 10/11/10 01:15 AM Re: What the hell is wrong with people?? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
manofsteel Offline
member


Registered: 05/08/10
Posts: 153
Loc: Indiana U.S.
You are so damn right it is pathetic everyone else doesn't see it!!!! Hell of a job.

If all you're planning to contribute to this site is glad-handing comments such as this, and the "cool t-shirt" one-liner I deleted earlier, methinks you need to take a step back from the keyboard and lurk moar.


Edited by Nemesis (10/11/10 07:39 AM)
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#43562 - 10/11/10 06:49 AM Re: What the hell is wrong with people?? [Re: manofsteel]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: manofsteel
You are so damn right it is pathetic everyone else doesn't see it!!!! Hell of a job.


What the hell are you blathering about and who are you even replying to? It would help if you used the quote button and at least attempted to contribute to the thread.
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#43579 - 10/12/10 03:58 PM Re: What the hell is wrong with people?? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Knievel74 Offline
member


Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
I think what the people in question were actually attacking is that which they see and themselves and despise. I mean, sodomizing another dude with a plunger or baseball bat is a pretty homo thing to do.

They were upset because they have latent homosexual feelings, and, not knowing how to deal with it, went out and attacked some gay guys. By beating them up they wont be suspected of wanting to fuck them - which is what they really wanted.

Homophobia is solely the realm of people who aren't comfortable with their own sexuality. That is why, I think, so many guys take major offense to being called a "fag".


I see your point but I don't think that's always the case. It could also be the case of people fear what they don't understand, so they lash out violently against it. These are teens who are part of a gang called The Latin Kings. They call themselves The Goonies since they're the kids in the group. They saw one of their own with a gay man, and because they are teens they're too ignorant to understand how to deal with it. And being in a street gang they already had that wolfpack mentality.

It's ironic; they committed sodomy on someone and when they're sentenced to prison they'll understand what sodomy really means..lol
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#43581 - 10/12/10 05:16 PM Re: What the hell is wrong with people?? [Re: Knievel74]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Well, no, it isn't always the case. However, I still think that most of the time a homophobic mentality is brought on by an insecurity with one's own sexuality.

I used to go to gay bars with a friend of mine to get free drinks. We figured that women do it all the time so we might as well cash in on that. We got hit on a lot but that never bothered us; we knew we weren't gay and weren't going to be going home with any of the guys so it didn't matter. We would also get odd looks from people as we were walking out of the bar but that didn't bother us either. We knew who we were: a couple of guys who love the taste of pussy and are not above using our good looks to get free booze.

Another story to illustrate my point: A few years back a friend of mine was having a bachelorette party and her and some friends had planned to go to a drag club to celebrate. For what ever reason(s) her friends were not able to make it and she was pretty bummed about. Being the good friends that we are, some friends and I dressed up in some skanky clothing belonging to a few of our female friends and surprised her at her house with a 6 man lap-dance.

She let us know that she wanted to take us out and public like that and after a little discussion we got the few naysayers to go along with it. She took us to where her fiance worked, McDonalds and he laughed his ass off when he saw us. People were snickering and making all sorts of comments under their breath but would not say anything out loud; I assume this was because there was so many of us.

As an aside I have a great comeback to use when someone calls you a fag: "So I am a fag am I? Does that mean after I beat the shit out of you, you are going to tell all your friends that you got your ass kicked by a fag?" That usually shuts them up pretty quickly. If not, go for the throat. \:\)
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#43587 - 10/13/10 10:42 AM Re: What the hell is wrong with people?? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
 Originally Posted By: Nyte
I'm just wondering, what the hell is wrong with people?

When you use a term like "wrong", you're prestating a moral bias or absolute: that you know what is "right", and everyone else is expected to agree with you.

In the case of human social issues, such as religion & sex, individuals have all sorts of opinions & preferences. Communities of humans often form around like-opinions & like-preferences. These may coagulate into community norms, standards, taboos, laws, prejudices.

If you're a member of a community and decide to hold a different opinion, or pursue a different practice, you will meet a mixture of unofficial toleration, official toleration, unofficial resistance, official resistance. The exact response is to some extent based on how conspicuous you are/try to be, and also upon others' predispositions.

Unofficial toleration is easiest. You maintain as low a profile as possible, and others endeavor to "not notice" you [so that they don't feel they have to take a formal position].

Official toleration raises the bar. Now you are being public and "pushy". You not only want to be & do what you want, but you want other people to acknowledge it and state for the record that it's just as OK as their/the community's normality. You may get laws passed to force them to do so. You may feel that you must force the issue by insisting upon your "normality" in every part, every enclave of the society.

In short, the community is expected not just to unofficially or officially "endure" you, but to make and practice a formal statement that your "normality" is as good, proper, natural, and valid as the traditional. established one. This is where some individuals snap, resulting in unofficial resistance. This can take mild or harsh forms.

Take Satanism. As discussed in other threads here, some professed Satanists are private about it; others are "flexibly public"; still others aren't satisfied unless they stuff it in everyone else's face and make them eat it. In each case you will get a different reaction by others.


I appreciate what you are attempting to point out. And YES, I did make the assumption it was "wrong" to collect as a pack, hold someone against their will, cut them up with box cutters and stick things like mop handles and small baseball bats up their asses when they (the unwilling participant), in no way shape or form, requested that. I was willing to state it was wrong, because it was against those persons' wills and still am willing to state it IS wrong. I don't even think the people performing the acts thought it was "right", but I could be wrong on thinking that as well. They obviously knew it was wrong because it took more than one to accomplish these horrible crimes and they tried to keep it a secret by luring these people to a "private" local. There's just something "not right" in their heads that helped them justify their actions and I don't understand it, at all.

Society "norms" to hell...what would make that a "right" act to perform on an unwilling participant? Remember in all of this, we're not talking about some third world country or some secluded tribe in a jungle, but the US, that does have laws currently in affect against things like Hate Crimes, sex crimes and more. There is something "wrong" (not right in the head) with anyone that does this to another human being, gay, straight or anything in between.
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#43589 - 10/13/10 11:07 AM Re: What the hell is wrong with people?? [Re: Autodidact]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: Autodidact
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
 Originally Posted By: Nyte
I'm just wondering, what the hell is wrong with people?

When you use a term like "wrong", you're prestating a moral bias or absolute: that you know what is "right", and everyone else is expected to agree with you.

In the case of human social issues, such as religion & sex, individuals have all sorts of opinions & preferences. Communities of humans often form around like-opinions & like-preferences. These may coagulate into community norms, standards, taboos, laws, prejudices.


This is baseline domesticated primate behavior. Forming a group (or community or tribe or clan or organization) creates an "us" and a "them". Amongst the many things that spring from that are "right" and "wrong". If you were a different person, Nyte, you might be agreeing them. Picture everybody as just a screaming monkey with a club (attacking a monolith...) and it will make more sense.

As 6Satan6Archist6 said, they see something they recognize in themselves, and one of the things people hate most is seeing their "flaws" in someone else. Too perfect a mirror, indeed.

(PS: love the SLC Punk quote - underrated movie :-) )


You might be right Autodidact. Maybe if I was a "different person", but I can't ever remember a time through being Catholic or Christian (non-denominational) ever thinking something like this would have been acceptable through those teachings. I don't understand their thinking that it would be acceptable, at all. There's something really screwed up in those people's heads to think that it would even be considered "ok".

I guess in reading the depravity of these acts, like the one where the kid videotaped his roommate, it makes me wonder "Why?". What would make this all ok? What would make any of these acts against someone else ok for no other reason? I've seen too much of it, heard too much of things like this and I'm getting to a point I'm becoming fairly disgusted with humans, as a race all together. I guess I've just recently really found my drawing point with people and this is just one of the many, MANY reasons for my disgust. I don't go looking for reasons to lash out at anyone, and not everything offends me personally (obviously) but these recent things have touched on something very deeply imbedded inside of me, and they really do "cut to the quick" for me.

Maybe it's just because I know so many people that are gay (from all generations) and they ARE decent people. Some of them are very good friends and I'd fight tooth and nail for them and with them. They don't deserve any of this just for being gay and even while I was following other paths, I didn't feel that they would have then either. I'm just plain ass disgusted. The good that has come out of these stories, I'm much more aware of people around me and my friends, when we're out in public. I watch and listen much more closely than I ever have before, because if something happened to any of them, well.... Hell hath no fury like a Woman's scorn. And believe me, that statement would be truer than anyone could even imagine.
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#43590 - 10/13/10 12:02 PM Re: What the hell is wrong with people?? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
Well, no, it isn't always the case. However, I still think that most of the time a homophobic mentality is brought on by an insecurity with one's own sexuality.

I used to go to gay bars with a friend of mine to get free drinks. We figured that women do it all the time so we might as well cash in on that. We got hit on a lot but that never bothered us; we knew we weren't gay and weren't going to be going home with any of the guys so it didn't matter. We would also get odd looks from people as we were walking out of the bar but that didn't bother us either. We knew who we were: a couple of guys who love the taste of pussy and are not above using our good looks to get free booze.

Another story to illustrate my point: A few years back a friend of mine was having a bachelorette party and her and some friends had planned to go to a drag club to celebrate. For what ever reason(s) her friends were not able to make it and she was pretty bummed about. Being the good friends that we are, some friends and I dressed up in some skanky clothing belonging to a few of our female friends and surprised her at her house with a 6 man lap-dance.

She let us know that she wanted to take us out and public like that and after a little discussion we got the few naysayers to go along with it. She took us to where her fiance worked, McDonalds and he laughed his ass off when he saw us. People were snickering and making all sorts of comments under their breath but would not say anything out loud; I assume this was because there was so many of us.

As an aside I have a great comeback to use when someone calls you a fag: "So I am a fag am I? Does that mean after I beat the shit out of you, you are going to tell all your friends that you got your ass kicked by a fag?" That usually shuts them up pretty quickly. If not, go for the throat. \:\)


I think you, Knievel, Audodidact, and Dan_Dread are all correct in some way or another about what these people were thinking or feeling, while doing this to other human beings. I just don't understand it, to hurt someone that hasn't hurt you, and for such a lame reason. I think, deep down inside, I had hoped that people in the US were evolved socially enough that these kinds of things would at least be settling down, if not stopping all together. It proved me wrong and woke me up to what I NEED to be aware of when out with my friends that are gay.

These are some really fun stories though 6Satan. Love it!

A group of us use to frequent a gay bar before moving to northern Ohio, and a few of us weren't gay. My best friend liked to go because he was gay, so we all just went. It was great fun, and everyone was very accepting, whether gay or straight didn't matter. If we were hit on, those of us that were straight would just tell them, and it was no big deal. Hell, I ended up with some great friendships. The dancing and music was "off the hook"! The whole atmosphere was fun!

My son and one of his friends go to a local "rave" bar now and because they enjoy the goth/punk scene they like to get really dressed up. His friend is bi, but my son is straight. When he first started going, my father use to say things to them and at one point I ended up going off on the bigoted old man. People don't have to like someone else being gay, but it's no reason to be nasty either. It's not like their making him participate. I guess I am just to a point I won't tolerate that kind of rhetoric anymore.
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#43591 - 10/13/10 01:10 PM Re: What the hell is wrong with people?? [Re: Nyte]
Knievel74 Offline
member


Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
Unfortunately, that's the world we live in. For every open-minded person there will be an equally close-minded person. For every good there has to be a bad. It's balance. And it's not just in the U.S. It's man as a species.
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#43592 - 10/13/10 01:46 PM Re: What the hell is wrong with people?? [Re: Nyte]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
I just don't understand it, to hurt someone that hasn't hurt you, and for such a lame reason.


Such is the nature of the human species. You may not like it but this sort of behavior has always existed and as long a the human species remains alive it will continue to exist. You can fight against it, and more power to you, I do it myself, but it really is a losing battle. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
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#43595 - 10/13/10 02:46 PM Re: What the hell is wrong with people?? [Re: Knievel74]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: Knievel74
Unfortunately, that's the world we live in. For every open-minded person there will be an equally close-minded person. For every good there has to be a bad. It's balance. And it's not just in the U.S. It's man as a species.


Yeah, I get that, more than I care to. I was hoping that things were at least getting a little bit better for the LGBT community, considering how many people DID vote for SSM, but these incidents prove it's not changed much. It's made me more aware of those around me and the people I know, again. Sad really, when you think about how much communication there is in today's world and yet, people choose to remain ignorant and closed-minded.
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#43596 - 10/13/10 02:50 PM Re: What the hell is wrong with people?? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
 Quote:
I just don't understand it, to hurt someone that hasn't hurt you, and for such a lame reason.


Such is the nature of the human species. You may not like it but this sort of behavior has always existed and as long a the human species remains alive it will continue to exist. You can fight against it, and more power to you, I do it myself, but it really is a losing battle. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.


It gets disheartening after a while. I've watched it more times than I care to have. This time it just hit on a subject that really hits close to home for me and I think that's why I did post about it.
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#43640 - 10/16/10 10:03 AM Re: What the hell is wrong with people?? [Re: Nyte]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 860
Loc: Nashville
I understand Dr. Aquino’s argument against Nyte’s use of the word “wrong”. However, I’m hard-pressed to think of another word that Nyte could’ve used in her statement “What the hell is wrong with people?” Satanists often view stupidity as the one great “sin”, but the bullies in the story weren’t necessarily being stupid – they were just being jerks. In Nyte’s judgment, what they did was wrong. I think they were wrong too.

As for Nyte being “fairly disgusted with humans”, I would respond that mankind isn’t inherently “bad” nor is it inherently “good”. Man is what each individual chooses to be. Some try to make the world a better place. Others would be content to blow it up. Ghandi’s quote sums up well my personal philosophy: “Be the change you want to see in the world.”
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#43720 - 10/20/10 12:52 PM Re: What the hell is wrong with people?? [Re: William Wright]
manofsteel Offline
member


Registered: 05/08/10
Posts: 153
Loc: Indiana U.S.
Live and let live! Plain and simple. So what if someone is different then you. As long as they aren't bothering you than I see no need in bothering them. If they are not intruding into your life then who gives a shit! People are just way too damn nosy and bored apparently. Mind your own damn business and worry about your own life. We all have enough problems as it is and I don't know why people want any more...
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