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#43682 - 10/18/10 02:03 AM On the Concept of Marriage
Lamar Offline
member


Registered: 02/03/10
Posts: 226
Loc: Alabama
Just about every night when I go to sleep my mind will wander and think of random things. One particular night the concept of marriage came to me. To be "legally" married (which is irrelevant) it seems one would have to play into the Christian union of man and woman in the eye of God. Upon entertaining this thought I did away with the common view of marriage completely and built upon it ground up in my mind. First and personally, marriage could be a sacred or intimate bond between two individuals, heterosexual or homosexual, expressing the profound love for one another. I think it is a shame the way Christians ridicule homosexuals and won't tolerate a same sex marriage, referring to them as "abominations." In all reality legality of any "marriage" is irrelevant as it is up to the couple. The government and the church cannot tell us who we are in love with. This marriage is a personal thing and would vary from couple to couple as in the so called sin adultery. Anton LaVey touched upon this also, for some people it is unnatural to have more than one sexual partner and the opposite is true.

Another thing that struck me was premarital sex. I don't think that having sex before you are married is inherently bad or wrong. But then I started to think, if I had a partner who I was genuinely in love with, in my own personality and the way I am I would only want to be with that one particular person. Call me oldschool. Perhaps it was the way I was raised, though I still would not consider it wrong if I had premarital sex.

If I were ever to get married and it were up to me about having a formal Christian wedding, I would decline it. I would rather have a more intimate wedding paying homage to our carnal love for each other than to degrade ourselves even tolerating a Christian value just to be a "legally" married couple. A "Satanic" wedding even if not recognized as a legal marriage would represent more of a true marriage anyway.

Upon thinkng about all of this my mind further explored the genuine love felt between couples and children. It would seem to me that the result of the love shared between me and my partner would end in a gift for my partner, a child. I love you so much that I give to you this gift, and you give to me. Children are the gifts from one parent to the other. This is the sacredness I was talking about above, why I would stay with my one partner.

Just my thoughts.

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#43701 - 10/19/10 02:38 AM Re: On the Concept of Marriage [Re: Lamar]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Lamar,

You don't need a church to have a "Legal" wedding... you don't even need a priest...

You might want an Elvis though, for future considerations. Just to make it "fun".

Satanists can be married, and they can have a "Satanic Wedding" if they want. We can do things like this... and it's totally legal. All you need is someone who has the "authority" to legally marry two individuals... and this is why the debate on hetero vs. homosexual marriages is so valid and makes no sense, as you said in more words.

I have been married only once, but it wasn't in a church, there was no priest... we just paid a dude after I got the marriage license, then it was done. Me, my soon to be wife, and this old guy... there might have been some staff present.

It was completely legal, I assure you. And no family members were present. We could have made it crazy if we wanted though.

Seems like you've made things more complicated than they really are... and maybe that's a good thing. But you don't seem like the kind of person who is going to go on a marrying rampage.

Maybe I misunderstood you... but, your post seems to go in a few directions.

But yeah, A child...

Do you have children?

A "child" together seems like a beautiful thing, and I guess it can be, for some kinds of people I've never met. Kidding, only a little... I like the idea of a child with someone I love......

And I'll end it there.

Daeve.
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Where we're going, we don't need roads.

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#43704 - 10/19/10 08:02 PM Re: On the Concept of Marriage [Re: daevid777]
Lamar Offline
member


Registered: 02/03/10
Posts: 226
Loc: Alabama
 Originally Posted By: daevid777
Lamar,

You don't need a church to have a "Legal" wedding... you don't even need a priest...



I know this. This is what I said in my post.

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#43706 - 10/19/10 09:19 PM Re: On the Concept of Marriage [Re: Lamar]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

I think Dave is too nice to say it so.....

 Originally Posted By: Lamar
 Originally Posted By: daevid777
Lamar,

You don't need a church to have a "Legal" wedding... you don't even need a priest...



I know this. This is what I said in my post.

No you didn’t. You did go on to say and I quote.

 Originally Posted By: Lamar
To be "legally" married (which is irrelevant) it seems one would have to play into the Christian union of man and woman in the eye of God.


 Originally Posted By: Lamar
I would rather have a more intimate wedding paying homage to our carnal love for each other than to degrade ourselves even tolerating a Christian value just to be a "legally" married couple.

And this…

 Originally Posted By: Lamar
A "Satanic" wedding even if not recognized as a legal marriage would represent more of a true marriage anyway.


So even though you said this:

 Originally Posted By: Lamar
In all reality legality of any "marriage" is irrelevant as it is up to the couple.

You did not say this:

 Originally Posted By: daevid777
Lamar,

You don't need a church to have a "Legal" wedding... you don't even need a priest...


Thank you, have a nice day.

~T~

*No quotes were abused or tortured in the making of this post. ;\)
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#43709 - 10/19/10 11:47 PM Re: On the Concept of Marriage [Re: ta2zz]
Lamar Offline
member


Registered: 02/03/10
Posts: 226
Loc: Alabama
Well regardless, I meant that you did not have to have a church in order to have a wedding. Apologies. What I meant was you don't even need legality for a real marriage. "Playing into the Christian value in the eye of God", I was referring to the view of Christian prejudice that says no two men or women can be married. Anyway, sorry for the mix up.
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#43710 - 10/20/10 02:01 AM Re: On the Concept of Marriage [Re: ta2zz]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
*No quotes were abused or tortured in the making of this post. ;\)


You're really trying to give daevid777 a fucking heart attack, aren't you Ta2zz?! Another "smart-ass" has popped onto the scene of quoting people.

Now, back to the topic...

Lamar, you need a hobby or something. Marriage is not always Christian based. Here in the recent years, I can't tell you how many I've been to that has said NOTHING about a religion/God in their ceremony. My other half and I went to the Mayor with our own ceremony written out, no God included, said our vows and partied our asses off the next day for our reception. The next 5 years (while we lived in that city) we were asked by family and friends when our next "party" was going to be.

As for SSM, that should have been legalized long, LONG ago. As for multiple partners, provided that NONE of them can draw on our current support system, like welfare then they should be able to, also. They must be able to support themselves and their extended family. I think this is part of what's wrong with our system of help now. But that's all ready been discussed over and over again on this board.

As for the "gift" of a child...?

You can give anyone a "gift" but be very prepared for what follows with having a child with your partner of choice. Life changes completely with children, sometimes more than people expect. Remember, you share that gift after you give it.

**On a side note..... When I first typed this out quickly I wrote, "Another "smart-ass" has pooped onto...."! \:o
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If only just for today.....

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#43711 - 10/20/10 02:20 AM Re: On the Concept of Marriage [Re: Lamar]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
In my best "Topol" voice... "He's Rright."

"Hee's Rright too"

No? Young people these days...
_________________________
Where we're going, we don't need roads.

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#43712 - 10/20/10 02:51 AM Re: On the Concept of Marriage [Re: Nyte]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Nyte,

I thank you for watching out for my coronary arteries, seriously. However, I know how Ta2zz does things... and I've known him (sorta, at least his style) for a very long time...

In this case, he actually was correct in his use of quotes, as much as I hate to say it due to my shout box antics. He used them specifically though... and those were just the right instances for which I made my post.

I think Lamar, if he or she didn't mean to say such a thing, incorrectly typed a very confusing post, hence my entire post and my attempt at a sort of disclaimer at the end of it.

The multiple partners thing was just a joke of sorts on my part, you could find more on the subject of Polyamory... which has been beaten to death with a very large, blunt tree trunk...

I'm for keeping "marriage", in the legal sense, to only two people, only because it's already fucked up to do taxes as it is... let's not bring any more trouble in our lives. And, yeah, the government aid thing. (But I don't think that's an issue for most polygamists. That would be a new topic, and it would be interesting, but check polyamory first.)

Kids can make you crazy... -er.... just watch out for what you want. If you really want a child, then it's in your mind, if your partner wants a child, same. If you talk about it, and really want that sort of thing "together", then it's great. Just understand the fantasy of the thing, and the reality are completely different.

Like when the "Gift" want's a Nintendo DS. The "Gift" needs school supplies. The "Gift" needs new clothes. The "Gift" needs braces. The "Gift" wants a Car. The "Gift" got accepted to college. The "Gift" is that you can't pay for that college or university... The previous owner of the "Gift" wants to get rid of you... so you must pay a "gift" to the "Gift" owner until he or she is eighteen years of age. And that "gift" to the "Gift" makes things really bad for you... and you're bled dry every month, and the "Gift" keeps asking for cash and clothes... and the "Gift's" handler moves on with a rich boyfriend or something, but you still pay the same damn thing every month out of your sucky ass pay... and you hate, and hate... and you want to kill, but you start drinking or doing meth... then you're broke all the time... get kicked out of your shitty apartment, lose your job, hate yourself, and you just want to die.

But you weren't talking about that Lamar... you were talking about LOVE. And that lasts FOREVER.

And THAT, my friend, is a beautiful thing.
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Where we're going, we don't need roads.

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#43713 - 10/20/10 02:51 AM Re: On the Concept of Marriage [Re: Lamar]
Knievel74 Offline
member


Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 149
Loc: NY
 Originally Posted By: Lamar
you don't even need legality for a real marriage.


Are you referring to Common Law marriage or just making a commitment to each other? If you're talking about Common Law marriage, not every state recognizes it. In some states, you need to be married by someone who is licensed in order to be recognized by the state as a married couple.
_________________________
"Man was meant to live, not just to exist". - Evel Knievel

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#43716 - 10/20/10 06:25 AM Re: On the Concept of Marriage [Re: daevid777]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: daevid777
Nyte,

I thank you for watching out for my coronary arteries, seriously. However, I know how Ta2zz does things... and I've known him (sorta, at least his style) for a very long time...

In this case, he actually was correct in his use of quotes, as much as I hate to say it due to my shout box antics. He used them specifically though... and those were just the right instances for which I made my post.


I know Daevid, I was poking fun. A couple of times posting lately, I've gotten in a rush to get the posts finished due to time restrictions and should have been more vigilant about what I was posting. For that, I do apologize. I haven't been serious about the whole "quote fun", except to heed your advise, so not to worry. I figure if I can't laugh at myself when I do fuck up with something silly once in a while, then something is seriously wrong with me. Right? And I am glad you won't have a heart attack.

Back to topic again....

 Originally Posted By: daevid777
I think Lamar, if he or she didn't mean to say such a thing, incorrectly typed a very confusing post, hence my entire post and my attempt at a sort of disclaimer at the end of it.

The multiple partners thing was just a joke of sorts on my part, you could find more on the subject of Polyamory... which has been beaten to death with a very large, blunt tree trunk...

I'm for keeping "marriage", in the legal sense, to only two people, only because it's already fucked up to do taxes as it is... let's not bring any more trouble in our lives. And, yeah, the government aid thing. (But I don't think that's an issue for most polygamists. That would be a new topic, and it would be interesting, but check polyamory first.)

Kids can make you crazy... -er.... just watch out for what you want. If you really want a child, then it's in your mind, if your partner wants a child, same. If you talk about it, and really want that sort of thing "together", then it's great. Just understand the fantasy of the thing, and the reality are completely different.

Like when the "Gift" want's a Nintendo DS. The "Gift" needs school supplies. The "Gift" needs new clothes. The "Gift" needs braces. The "Gift" wants a Car. The "Gift" got accepted to college. The "Gift" is that you can't pay for that college or university... The previous owner of the "Gift" wants to get rid of you... so you must pay a "gift" to the "Gift" owner until he or she is eighteen years of age. And that "gift" to the "Gift" makes things really bad for you... and you're bled dry every month, and the "Gift" keeps asking for cash and clothes... and the "Gift's" handler moves on with a rich boyfriend or something, but you still pay the same damn thing every month out of your sucky ass pay... and you hate, and hate... and you want to kill, but you start drinking or doing meth... then you're broke all the time... get kicked out of your shitty apartment, lose your job, hate yourself, and you just want to die.


I think you might be onto something about the taxes when it comes to multiple partners. I hadn't even given that a thought, but you are correct, taxes are all ready a jumble mess, a bad "circle jerk", and that would only make things worse. Hmm, might have to think a bit more on that one.

As for your comment on children...I'm glad I don't feel that way! ;\) Yes, they make me crazy at times, but for the most part, I know I'm fortunate in that respect.


 Originally Posted By: daevid777
But you weren't talking about that Lamar... you were talking about LOVE. And that lasts FOREVER.

And THAT, my friend, is a beautiful thing.


And rare anymore. A favorite saying I have is, "The grass always looks greener on the other side, until you jump the fence and see it's the same damn grass, just now you're in a different field." We all have our flaws, we just have to decide what flaws of someone else's we can live with and most people don't know for sure until they're all ready there.

Lamar, here's to hoping you find what you're looking for...
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If only just for today.....

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#43722 - 10/20/10 03:00 PM Re: On the Concept of Marriage [Re: Lamar]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

Dave… You’re still cool.

Nyte… Watch and learn. Don’t worry I like Dave as much as I can having never met or interacted with him anywhere but here. Without talking to him or asking directly I know Dave’s issue is with those who quote entire posts to add a few sentences to as a reply. This has been getting a bit crazy as of late. There is no reason to quote the entire post unless of course you’re picking it to death.

Lamar… Oh Lamar…

 Originally Posted By: Lamar
Well regardless, I meant that you did not have to have a church in order to have a wedding. Apologies.

Totally unnecessary to apologize, just slow down and reread things before you hit reply. If you are unsure about something don’t treat it like you know what your saying. A simple “I think this is the way it is” could save you trouble.

 Originally Posted By: Lamar
What I meant was you don't even need legality for a real marriage.

Well now that depends. Are you looking for all the perks that come with marriage like filing a joint tax return and having power of attorney over a sick or injured loved one? What else could you mean by legal marriage or the legality of marriage?

 Originally Posted By: Lamar
"Playing into the Christian value in the eye of God", I was referring to the view of Christian prejudice that says no two men or women can be married. Anyway, sorry for the mix up.

So this is really just a rant over gay marriage? Seriously…

*Floating a few inches above the ground* My Google-fu is superior to yours. So I will teach you something.

Since the search on most websites (this site included) sucks dirty balls you can use Google to search individual websites.

Simply type your question into Google and add site:www.the600club.com to the line. This would give you something that looked like this “gay marriage site:www.the600club.com” No quotation marks needed. Yes this can be used with any website.

I suggest you read a bit on what has come here before you then you can post better. You will find most of our thoughts on the issue and you may also find the answers to your questions before you ask them.

Class is dismissed.

Have fun and don’t forget to do your homework.

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#43732 - 10/21/10 11:49 AM Re: On the Concept of Marriage [Re: Lamar]
manofsteel Offline
member


Registered: 05/08/10
Posts: 153
Loc: Indiana U.S.
Simply put I think if the person is your best friend and you have the felling that you can't live without them than you need to marry them! I vowed to never get married and then met my wife who becaome my best friend and lover and haven't looked back. It is all up to you and your feelings and noone else's.
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Amongst the sheep emerges a wolf.

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#43737 - 10/22/10 02:49 AM Re: On the Concept of Marriage [Re: manofsteel]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Good for you Manofsteel!

I agree with you. Best friends, and Great lovers... what else could you want?

Just remember you gotta protect each other... and that town... seems like a bad choice.

Maybe you grew up there, but is she really okay with it? That's another part of marriage some people don't agree with... compromise.

Maybe you two should talk. Especially if some random old dude can harrass your baby in public, without getting his false teeth knocked out by a passing stranger.

Are there no gentlemen?

(Love for you Ta2zz! You are insane!!!)

Daeve.
_________________________
Where we're going, we don't need roads.

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#43759 - 10/22/10 08:53 PM Re: On the Concept of Marriage [Re: daevid777]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

 Originally Posted By: manofsteel
Simply put I think if the person is your best friend and you have the felling that you can't live without them than you need to marry them!

Why what is there to gain by saying I do? Are these your true feelings or do you only really feel like this because society taught you this is correct and proper.

 Originally Posted By: manofsteel
I vowed to never get married and then met my wife who becaome my best friend and lover and haven't looked back. It is all up to you and your feelings and noone else's.

More power to you and yours if this is something you two need. Not everyone needs the title or paperwork for a simple tax break. Not everyone needs to wear a slave ring to show you are owned, taken or spoken for. Me I have seen to many relationships go belly up once those papers were signed.

 Originally Posted By: Daevid777
That's another part of marriage some people don't agree with... compromise.

Only the ignorant Dave. And I extend your statement of compromise to include every relationship. To simply have a friend is to accept compromise, there is no other way.

 Originally Posted By: Captain bring down McPretentious-pants! Nice to meet you too!
(Love for you Ta2zz! You are insane!!!)

*sharpening my implements* That’s insane in a good way yes?

~T~

Why do we need marriage, what is the benifet either now or in the past that made marriage a necessity.
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#43763 - 10/23/10 12:11 AM Re: On the Concept of Marriage [Re: ta2zz]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
I'll come back to this later; I only know about marriage and Civil Partnership laws as they apply in England and Wales. Here, Common Law marriage does not exist (contrary to popular belief). Therefore, if you want someone automatically and legally recognised as your next of kin you must either be married, if you and your partner are of different sexes, or Civilly Partnered if you are of the same sex.
If you remain single, your partner has no right to visit you in hospital, make your funeral arrangements, inherit your money and so on. As you can imagine, if your only surviving relative is, say, a brother you can't stick and haven't spoken to for 20 years and he inherits everything while your lover gets nothing AND he is likely to inflict a Christian funeral on you that possibility might not appeal while you're alive. So long as you remain unmarried, your parents are your next of kin, then any children. If your partner has jointly raised the child of a previous relationship with you they can be denied access to them. You would need to make very careful and precise legal arrangements with your partner, if that's what you both wanted.
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"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

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