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#44270 - 11/20/10 09:51 AM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: Dan_Dread]
Fnord Offline
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Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
I am no enemy of categorization or classification.


Sure, but I'd bet that you're very meticulous about what you would allow yourself be defined by. That's the only point I was making.

 Originally Posted By: OrgasmicKarmatic
I am certain that you are of no difference when it comes to spotting pro-activity.

Perhaps, but maybe for different reasons. When I see a 'Satanist' take the reins in their own life and use their own personal power to achieve an individual goal then I see someone who is worthy of respect. When I see a "Satanist" who takes up Satanism as a cause and as a means to 'win friends and influence people' I see someone to avoid. A real Satanist being proactive will, like as not, be invisible to those who would look unless they choose to share.

As for the rest, and I mean no offense, you type a lot without laying down anything concrete. Yes, more people are aware of Satanism because the means of communication are now more sophisticated. This doesn't change the fact that those who find Satanism and embrace the foundational tenets thereof, are few and far between.

Finding the true individual within yourself, embracing doubt, and setting off on your own 'Grail Quest' (see Dr. Aquino) are not things that are much influenced by 40 years or so and perhaps some better technology. Just as it was 40 or 100 or 1000 years ago, we all have a ticking clock hanging over our heads and how we choose to use our allotted time is the defining factor.

The world has changed. The basic tenets of Satanism have not. YOU can change your world by applying Satanic thought to it.
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Dead and gone. Syonara.

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#44461 - 11/25/10 03:54 PM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: Fnord]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
This discussion does bring forth interesting and thought worthy ideas. The main problem being the very definition of a Satanist and whether it is about conforming to a religion/philosophy or not. LaVeyans in particular like to point out that they are non-conformists, individualist etc all the while they critique other self-professed Satanists to not follow, what they claim to be, the basic tenets of TSB.

The most common explanation is that a Satanist does not conform because he already is. He is born a Satanist and merely sees his own philosophy reflected in TSB. Therefore the person isn’t conforming, hes just letting someone else put a label on what he is. While I know this is not how all interpret the “born not made” creed it is way to common and quite frankly I think its wrong.

Dan dread is right that to many Satanists seem to think rebellion is a goal in and of itself. I saw it first hand a few months ago when I discussed with someone here that claimed rebellion in itself was essential. This of course leads to the problem that in the endless quest for questioning all things you never settle and build a foundation. Or you question all things except what you consider to be true. In the case of LaVeyans we may mention metaphysical theories or how they approach new science that disproves atomism (making this universe not foundationally materialistic – even though it will not be described as spiritual either of course).

Some say that "no one is going to say exactly what a Satanist is" and still that is what I see all over this thread. Some does take the approach of trying to tell us what a Satanist is not however. I don’t think theism or spirituality necessarily are incompatible with Satanism for example (although I am no theist myself) but Satanism does have a good eye toward science and what if science were to prove the existence of what may be called spiritual realm? Science always hold the door open to new data and knowledge (even though individual scientists may not) would Satanism do the same if one of the “core tenets” were proven wrong (like in the example I provided in the above paragraph)?

We have been discussing the “did Satanism exist before LaVey” earlier and I see the same comments. Again I would like to stress that Satanism did not originate with LaVey. Neither as a word or a philosophy. However his organization might have been the first, or one of the most early, that successfully put together a coherent philosophy based on Satan and managed to popularize the term. Individual Satanist did however exist before LaVey in the 1800’s and depending on word definition maybe even organized, if marginalized, groups. The groups many traditional Satanists point to seem to have been largely mythical though (like the Luciferians in the 1700’s).

I would say that Satanism is so broad that it is very hard to categorize at all. There is no original Satanism and there are no holy books. It is a little bit like defining what right wing politics are. You simply can’t nail it down – perhaps there are thing you can say that its not but never can you really say that this is the core for all right wing political sympathizers. Maybe its to harsh but in general that is how I feel in regards to the whole thing we call Satanism. It is like a mosaic which does create one big picture even though the parts may at times be very different in size and colour from the others.

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#44522 - 11/29/10 11:43 AM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: Fnord]
manofsteel Offline
member


Registered: 05/08/10
Posts: 153
Loc: Indiana U.S.
I take this stance exactly. Someone may believe that they are the only power in the world and that is fine as long as they follow their goals and try to achieve them. Someone who is themself and doesn't follow the herd and does whatever he or she believes is right and lives the way they want to live even with ridicule is a truly strong being. So many people just want to fit in at any price that they will sacrafice their own beliefs to do so. I believe in strong will, courage, inner strength and love for the ones that love me and if the world don't like it they can kiss my ass! Satanism is being you! Your own god!
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Amongst the sheep emerges a wolf.

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#44614 - 12/05/10 09:27 AM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: mabon2010]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3138
According to my shaman doctor I need to work on my karma.
So.. something positive should be said about the video... hmmm
What music was in the background? I quite liked the mellow bombastic tone.

Loosely read and followed the video. I am a fan of classification as long as it suits a certain purpose. If it is the way you think it is, fine and whatever. Just don't take it too seriously and narrow things too much down. Many shades of green etc.. or was it purple or grey?
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Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#45218 - 12/19/10 10:30 AM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: Lamar]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
active member


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
 Originally Posted By: Lamar
Contrary to popular belief there is only 1 type of Satanist, and that type is atheistic and practices the tenets found in Anton LaVey's The Satanic Bible.


I'm glad that was settled definitively once and for all. I'm so sick and tired of these goobers who think they have anything new to offer Satanism. How dare anyone think outside the box.

JK
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#45219 - 12/19/10 10:41 AM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: Jason King]
SkaffenAmtiskaw Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 1318
I find it curious that your post and your signature are so at odds here. On the one hand, you support lateral thinking and going against the herd, while on the other you seem to think that your number of subscribers on youtube is testament to the veracity of your opinions.

While I certainly appreciate your opinions, not leastly for the candour you show in displaying them, I find that you are at odds with yourself, and there's a worrying tendency towards ad hominem arguments. You discredit the opponent, the opponent's sources and the opponent's right to express him/herself, while often leaving the arguments themselves hanging.

Let us focus on the matter at hand when debating Satanism, and in this case, your so-called 'postmodern' Satanism. An interesting proposition, to be sure, but hardly one worth attacking other people over.

In short: no one cares how many subscribers you have. No one cares how well you believe you have discredited your opposition. Stick to the matter at hand. You seem to have a good grasp on your own opinions. Display some nobility.
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"I'd rather be right than consistent" - Winston Churchill

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#45220 - 12/19/10 10:48 AM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
active member


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
 Originally Posted By: SkaffenAmtiskaw
I find it curious that your post and your signature are so at odds here. On the one hand, you support lateral thinking and going against the herd, while on the other you seem to think that your number of subscribers on youtube is testament to the veracity of your opinions.

While I certainly appreciate your opinions, not leastly for the candour you show in displaying them, I find that you are at odds with yourself, and there's a worrying tendency towards ad hominem arguments. You discredit the opponent, the opponent's sources and the opponent's right to express him/herself, while often leaving the arguments themselves hanging.

Let us focus on the matter at hand when debating Satanism, and in this case, your so-called 'postmodern' Satanism. An interesting proposition, to be sure, but hardly one worth attacking other people over.

In short: no one cares how many subscribers you have. No one cares how well you believe you have discredited your opposition. Stick to the matter at hand. You seem to have a good grasp on your own opinions. Display some nobility.


Wow! An entire reply devoted to my signature of all things. Should I reply with something directed at your avatar? I mean, it's ghey as all balls, but why bother?

I've got a better idea, why not deal with all TWO lines of my reply vis a vis the quoted poster? Does that sound like something you can manage?

Get back to me . . .

JK
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#45221 - 12/19/10 10:50 AM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: Jason King]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Even Dr. LaVey recognized and appreciated that there were a growing number of Satanic options as far back in print as 1975, when he wrote in his The Cloven Hoof article, UTOPIA, UNITY AND OTHER PLEASANT DIVERSIONS:

"The Church of Satan is a pivotal point around which much revolves. I respect a Satanist who can recognize a natrual need for a pivotal point yet maintain individuality; move in varied circles, influence those without, infiltrate, and when possible, emerge with flying colors; and eschew intermural rivalries.

Unfortunately, that is a big order to fill, even among Satanists. Therefore, group activity which leads to cliquishness which leads to factionalism is bound to occur. If there is any merit that evolves from factionalism, it is the separation and isolation process it provides. Factionalists are usually so preoccupied with their own importance and dissatisfaction that they honk their horns loudly, and invariably at each other. They keep things lively, they act flashy, and the customers (the public) are entertained. They provide an effective contrast to the aloof and self-sufficiency of supportive and constructive Satanists, who inhabit the Pleasure Domes I anticipated in my earliest C/S writings."

And indeed, options have increased with the expansion of the internet and the ability for even the most housebound Satanist to find an outlet for his or her interpretation of Satanism. The adage the "The proof is in the pudding" applies, one would think, in seeing what longevity the options that have presented can have. To date, the track record isn't good, but that's not to say that an idea can't take hold, based on its own merit, and thrive. One would hope that it can do so honestly and avoid the pitfalls that most find unavoidable.

Having 40 years of success with LaVey's brand of Satanism, it would be highly unlikely for me to find an idea that would alter my course, and I would be one of the first to tell people that today's Church of Satan "isn't your father's Oldsmobile." So it's good to have those choices, I think, so long as they can stand on their own without claiming LaVey simply to cash in on his legacy. He told me once that, "In this world of billions, it's not news if you present an idea and gain followers. The real news would be if you presented an idea and NOBODY followed."
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#45222 - 12/19/10 10:51 AM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: Jason King]
SkaffenAmtiskaw Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 1318
Please take some time off to reconsider how you handle yourself in polite company, and don't make me ban you.

This is your one and only warning.
_________________________
"I'd rather be right than consistent" - Winston Churchill

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#45223 - 12/19/10 10:56 AM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
active member


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
 Originally Posted By: SkaffenAmtiskaw
you seem to think that your number of subscribers on youtube is testament to the veracity of your opinions.


Actually, I had to correct this, sorry for the back-to-back.

My sig should be understood as referring to Manifestation, an integral part of Satanism as I understand it. It's no veiled appeal to authority (as I have none here on 600), but rather a way of asking, "what have YOU done to manifest the Current?"

Think about it.

JK
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#45225 - 12/19/10 11:08 AM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
active member


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
 Originally Posted By: SkaffenAmtiskaw
This is your one and only warning.


If I may be so bold, for what? If you want to kill JK on 600, this ain't the way to do it, dude. Mods shouldn't get butthurt after a single rejoinder. But do whatever you will, and I'll keep handling my business. Let's call it a game of chicken . . .

JK
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#45226 - 12/19/10 11:11 AM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: Jason King]
SkaffenAmtiskaw Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 1318
Dancing around the subject, arguments of intimidation, arguments of authority... I thought I made this clear in my first post, but I'm more than happy to keep it simple for you, since your response was so intransigent.

There's no call to act like a spoiled child about this. My warning stands, and if you keep insulting other members here, including myself, you are out. The choice is yours, and it's no hair off my balls.
_________________________
"I'd rather be right than consistent" - Winston Churchill

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#45227 - 12/19/10 11:30 AM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
active member


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
 Originally Posted By: SkaffenAmtiskaw
Dancing around the subject, arguments of intimidation, arguments of authority... I thought I made this clear in my first post, but I'm more than happy to keep it simple for you, since your response was so intransigent.


I dare you to show me any of the above on my part. Direct JK quotes would be super-cool.

Here's what I think, call it a hunch. You want to ban me yesterday. You're just itching for a reason. Something you can sell to the higher-ups as legit. And it just tickles your pickle that you can encounter JK in a non-neutral area where you can hurl asymmetrical threats. It honestly bothers you that the words in my signature ring true. I ask "what have you done," and your reply is, "I'm getting ready to boot you from 600". Very well then. That can be the thing you've done. That can be your Manifestation. Because I'll be damned if I'm going to sit here (or anywhere) and take threats from some dude who won't even put his face behind what he says. And I'll say this, you wouldn't be MAN enough to confront me in ANY arena where you didn't have absolute power. So go ahead, prove how big and bad you are. But I'll never stop being who I am, and FUCK your attempted intimidation. BTW, you'd be wise to delete this entire thread after you ban me, we wouldn't want anyone seeing how you totally did shit wrong.

JK
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#45228 - 12/19/10 11:50 AM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: Jason King]
SkaffenAmtiskaw Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 1318
I have zero desire to ban you. However, I have a lot of desire to see you behave politely, and tackle people by countering their arguments rather than going after them as people. Using invective and abuse, plus referring to yourself in the third person do not make you right.

Please, let us return to dealing with the matter at hand.
_________________________
"I'd rather be right than consistent" - Winston Churchill

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#45230 - 12/19/10 11:50 AM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: Jason King]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Maybe you should start seeing things in another perspective. Sure you got a lot of subscribers on youtube but let's be serious; they're kids. You're the king of kids. What are most? In their 20ies, if, just finished sucking mommy's tit and still needing to apply their Satanism in practice. Maybe ten of all those subscribers will ever manage; the rest will phase out.

I wouldn't take them or it too serious.

D.

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