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#45237 - 12/19/10 01:28 PM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: Diavolo]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Youtube is a venue for the casually interested. This is a venue for the serious traveller of the LHP. I don't think they are comparable. On all of youtube, I can count on one hand anyone that has anything new or interesting to say about Satanism.

So..no, no questions ;\)

Just sayin..!
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#45239 - 12/19/10 01:42 PM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: Dan_Dread]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
Just as a note of interest, I managed to finally get an idea of what Post Modern Satanism was about via YouTube, and it is a new type of Satanism. I note:

1. Post Modern is about walking an individual rather than group path.

2. Post Modern is about expressing Satanism in the form of action, painting... music... writing books.

It is a good form of Satanism. I can see Post Modern will catch on and will kill off Laveyan Satanism.

SIN is another expression of Post Modern, people doing something.

I am sure I have missed a lot of what Post Modern means ... but anyone who walks the individual path and takes Satanism forward as action would probably be correct if they said they were a Post Modern Satanist.

The guy with some attitude here probably, if he could use simpler words in his books would be another talked about individual for Post Modern Satanism in the same manner as Lavey is for Laveyan Satanism.
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#45240 - 12/19/10 01:49 PM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: Jason King]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: Jason King
 Originally Posted By: Lamar
Contrary to popular belief there is only 1 type of Satanist, and that type is atheistic and practices the tenets found in Anton LaVey's The Satanic Bible.


I'm glad that was settled definitively once and for all. I'm so sick and tired of these goobers who think they have anything new to offer Satanism. How dare anyone think outside the box.

JK


Offering something *TO* Satanism is applauded and encouraged. Redefining and/or undermining the basic tenets is discouraged. Satanism does have boundaries and can be thought of as a box. Unlike most things though, it's a really, really big box (so those who manifest have room to do so).

I'm not laying any of that at your feet as yet, though. I'm still reading your work.

On your signature comment... some manifest loudly, some manifest stealthily (while no one's lookin') \:\)
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#45242 - 12/19/10 01:52 PM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: mabon2010]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
1. Post Modern is about walking an individual rather than group path.


Satanism has always been an individual path. The failure to recognize this shows a failure to understand Satanism.

 Quote:
2. Post Modern is about expressing Satanism in the form of action, painting... music... writing books.


Wouldn't TSB be considered a written expression of Satanism? Expressing an idea through artistic means is not a new concept and certainly not one that was discovered when someone wrote a book called Postmodern Satanism.

 Quote:
It is a good form of Satanism. I can see Post Modern will catch on and will kill off Laveyan Satanism.


A "good form" of anything is all based on subjective opinion. And the death of "LaVeyan Satanism" will come from within, not from without. Even then I don't think it will ever just completely disappear. There may come a time when it is not as popular as it once was but I don't see it going anywhere.

 Quote:
SIN is another expression of Post Modern, people doing something.


They are doing exactly what is being done here: talking. Of course, I get the distinct impression that the people here also participate in a lot of actual "doing". Talk is cheap.
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#45244 - 12/19/10 02:06 PM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: mabon2010]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Mabon you need to just give up the goat man, you are never going to get it.

LaVeyan Satanism isn't going anywhere as long as the CoS continues to proliferate itself as a cult of personality. Outside of the CoS, 'LaVeyan' Satanism doesn't exist, there is only Satanism.

LaVey put his finger on an existent phenomenon and gave it a name. That phenomenon, and those who manifest it, have always been with us and always will be with us, 'Satanist' is a phenotype.

There are no 'types' of Satanism, only Satanism, those who 'get it', and those who use it.

Now kindly quit shitting in my sandbox and head your retarded ass back to mysatan.
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#45246 - 12/19/10 02:22 PM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: Dan_Dread]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I don't think low of youtube as a medium; it can be as valuable to express something as the written word but when you start reading the comments, overall that is, it seems it is heavily populated by morons. It's the same everywhere on those populistic sites. Check out facebook or other pages and see how all those satanic groups are populated by kids that can hardly spell Satanism, let alone live it. Even here we got 4000 users and if there are 50 satanists amongst them (I'm optimistic), we can call ourselves lucky.

They all talk the talk and adore anyone that presents them an option to feel like a wolf but in reality most are scared puppies. They are average people living average lives and most their Satanism only presents itself when they get in their chair and try to convince others, and maybe themselves, that they are the real deal. But when it comes to putting themselves to the test, crossing the lines out there, breaking their own taboos and trying to become what they are, most utterly fail and never get beyond that mediocre persona they are destined to be.

That's the majority of our and other's user-base; I surely wouldn't put it on a pedestal.

D.

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#45261 - 12/19/10 04:36 PM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: Diavolo]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Diavolo.
Agreed on all points.
A YouTube video by a recent Post Modern Satanist made an observation that Satanism has a load of predators, but where the predators run so do their fleas. The people you describe are the fleas.

@ Dan_Dread.
I am a Luciferian. I was never a goat man.
Birds can all be described as birds, but if you look closely they are different, which is why those birds have other names like eagle, vulture or swan. Satanists can all be described as Satanists, but if you look closely...
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#45292 - 12/20/10 08:16 AM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: Diavolo]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
active member


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Maybe you should start seeing things in another perspective. Sure you got a lot of subscribers on youtube but let's be serious; they're kids. You're the king of kids. What are most? In their 20ies, if, just finished sucking mommy's tit and still needing to apply their Satanism in practice. Maybe ten of all those subscribers will ever manage; the rest will phase out.

I wouldn't take them or it too serious.

D.


I don't necessarily disagree with you here. But everything you've stated can be applied to TSB with equal force. Think about it . . .

JK
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#45293 - 12/20/10 08:23 AM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: Jason King]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
But of course, all suffer the same problems. That's why we say that only a limited percentage will ever get it, or be it.

The irony of it all is that the percentage that includes themselves in this, is always larger than the initial percentage mentioned.

D.

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#45294 - 12/20/10 08:25 AM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: mabon2010]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
active member


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
 Originally Posted By: mabon2010
@ Diavolo.
Agreed on all points.
A YouTube video by a recent Post Modern Satanist made an observation that Satanism has a load of predators, but where the predators run so do their fleas. The people you describe are the fleas.


I wonder why you linked nothing. I mean, after all, you referred to a video. Look, dude, I know exactly what video you were referring to here, but the point is, you have painted doubly wrong with your brush. I'll be charitable and call you a liar.

My
Ass
Busts
Orange
Nuggets
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#45309 - 12/20/10 01:57 PM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: Diavolo]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
Well said, D.

YouTube, and the importance thereof, are a matter of perspective and motivation.

I'll attempt to carve out my take on YouTube subs etc. and their importance herein.

First, let's establish a baseline. For the sake of argument, let's say that:

Subscriber, Follower, etc. = Individuals who value your work and use the information provided.

At this point in time, I have several 'subscribers' who use and value my work. At present, (like right now) I have the largest architectural firm in the country and the largest electronics company (two of my subscribers) arguing over who gets the next block of my time (and arguing means throwing me cash offers). What they don't know is that I can solve both of their problems, at the same time, and still post on the 600Club with the time left over. A few other of my 'subscribers' own $35 million per year businesses. I can call them at any time (and do) and say "hey asshole, let's go to lunch." But, that's me.

Jake here, who has shared some of his stuff publicly, has used his considerable acumen to pull his assets together in such a way that OTHER people (his subscribers) are paying his bills and building his wealth. THAT is a real motherfucker in my book and I'm glad to be acquainted with him (cause I might learn something if I pay attention).

One of our esteemed moderators here, Nemesis, same deal. She's engaged in empire building of her own kind.

We have many examples of exceptional people here (some publicly notable) who are walking the walk with deliberation, determination, guts and Satanic savvy.

The commonality between all is that none have YouTube subscribers of any quantity. ALL have subscribers though, with cash money.

So what is the value of a subscriber with regard to youtube, specifically?

This is not meant, in any way, to be a slight to Jason King. I'm using Jason King because he threw down the gauntlet in his signature and in asking 'what are YOU doing to manifest the current?'

In looking only at the facts that are readily available, I can surmise a few things.

1). Postmodern Satanism is probably not a commercial success.
2). Jason King, with regard to Satanism, is also probably not a commercial success (though he may otherwise be).

I make this assumption because the book is now available for free to interested users. Why? Is it because Jason King has sold so many copies that he's now rolling in dough and has had a 'Scrooge' turn of heart? I don't see Jason King as a person who is known for humanitarian acts. I think he wrote the book to make money, and to become known as a force in Satanism. If I'm correct, and, if the book didn't sell well, he would cut his losses, offer the book for free, and hope to garner a wider readership. It's what I would do if I were similarly motivated. I think in the case of youtube, subscribers are <> (NOT EQUAL) to cash.

The fact of the matter though, is that I'm not similarly motivated. My motivation is to continue pleasing my own kind of subscribers who have no idea that I cultivate the black flame. In this way, I force my competitors to become better to try to take what is mine. They will not, because I'm better, and I will always strive to be better, and they will always try to ape what I do (and will remain second best). If they fool someone, I'll get paid to clean up the mess. No problem.

So, to circle back around.

If YouTube pulled the plug today, my subscribers would still be giving me cash. So will Jake's, so will Nem's, so will a bunch of other walking-the-walk motherfuckers who frequent these hallways. It's how we roll at 600.

Bottom line, *I* don't have any questions.

That being said, I appreciate and admire anyone who has the guts to put their work out and to try to better themselves and their calling. Because Jason King offers his work for free does not devalue it in my estimation. It just means that he didn't market it to the right people. I'm 60% or so through his book and resonate with much of it. It is an authentic work (aka a Satanist getting down to brass tacks with his/her perspectives) whether or not I agree with every little detail.

Anyway, there is my longandwindingroad diatribe about value.
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#45347 - 12/20/10 05:49 PM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: Jason King]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
 Originally Posted By: Jason King
 Originally Posted By: mabon2010
@ Diavolo.
Agreed on all points.
A YouTube video by a recent Post Modern Satanist made an observation that Satanism has a load of predators, but where the predators run so do their fleas. The people you describe are the fleas.


I wonder why you linked nothing. I mean, after all, you referred to a video. Look, dude, I know exactly what video you were referring to here, but the point is, you have painted doubly wrong with your brush. I'll be charitable and call you a liar.

My
Ass
Busts
Orange
Nuggets


I SAY:
"A YouTube video by a recent Post Modern Satanist made an observation that Satanism has a load of predators, but where the predators run so do their fleas. The people you describe are the fleas."


YOU SAY:
"...liar."


Here then is the link to video in question:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M84v9xAH_lU

Video speaks for itself.
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#45369 - 12/21/10 07:52 AM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: Fnord]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
active member


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
 Originally Posted By: Fnord
In looking only at the facts that are readily available, I can surmise a few things.

1). Postmodern Satanism is probably not a commercial success.
2). Jason King, with regard to Satanism, is also probably not a commercial success (though he may otherwise be).

I make this assumption because the book is now available for free to interested users. Why? Is it because Jason King has sold so many copies that he's now rolling in dough and has had a 'Scrooge' turn of heart? I don't see Jason King as a person who is known for humanitarian acts. I think he wrote the book to make money, and to become known as a force in Satanism. If I'm correct, and, if the book didn't sell well, he would cut his losses, offer the book for free, and hope to garner a wider readership. It's what I would do if I were similarly motivated. I think in the case of youtube, subscribers are <> (NOT EQUAL) to cash.


You are correct in just about everything you've said, except that I never envisioned Postmodern Satanism as a means of making any serious amount of money. The intended audience is just too small. Even if every Satanist on the planet bought it, I might have enough to live on for a year. I'm reminded of the Black House incident here. Not a single Satanist of "worth" stepped up to the plate.

The intention is to keep the ball of Satanism rolling in the zeitgeist, to touch somebody who will touch somebody, etc. To shift the dialogue. I've often joked that I could've made more money penning a biography of Brittney Spears.

Now don't get me wrong, I make money, but I don't see being creative within the Satanic philosophy as a viable means to augment this by any substantial amount. Applying the tools? Sure. But being a visionary? They're not ready yet.

JK
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#45370 - 12/21/10 10:44 AM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: Jason King]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Jason King
I'm reminded of the Black House incident here. Not a single Satanist of "worth" stepped up to the plate.
JK


Well, as someone who spent a considerable amount of time IN the Black House, and a Satanist who could probably have raised the $250K to buy back the Black House, had I desperately needed to, let me say this.

Wishing and wanting that it be so should NEVER come at the expense of common sense and reality. The truth, sad as it may be, is that by the time the "Black House" incident occurred. there was little of the Black House that could be saved from an economically viable standpoint. The deterioration of the house's structure and serviceability would have required almost a total rebuild to bring it into code standards, which could easily have dwarfed the purchase price.

When I served there, the heating system was BAD. Cosmetically, there were small cracks in the walls, but deeper damage had been done from over a century of quakes and, quite frankly, lack of preventative maintenance to the structure in general. The plumbing was equally bad and antiquated. Floors were in marginal condition and in some places, there was a detectible sagging when one walked. Fast forward 10-15 years later with NONE of the problems addressed. It was definitely worse.

Granted, some of the deterioration could have been caused by a well meaning, nostalgic and sentimental feeling that "This is the Black House," our HOME. We have to keep it as it's alway been because it's history. Well... our most treasured national buildings receive care to preserve them for the future. It's not just for nostalgia's sake and the need to preserve history. It's fiscally responsible to do so.

I'm a die hard Satanist and have laid it on the line for the cause, but there are reasons that "Satanists of worth" got that way, We (generally speaking) knew when to take opportunities that made sense and when to walk away, even when we really, really wanted to invest in special projects, even though we KNEW it would be a money pit. So we did due diligence, found the cons outweighed the pros and made sensible decisions based on the information at hand.

Dr. LaVey was not only my mentor, but a friend, and I really, really felt sorry for the condition of the Black House. But responsibility lies where responsibility lies and it wasn't with me or others who got where they were by the sweat of their brow, as much as we might have fantasized about riding in on that black stallion and saving the day.
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#45377 - 12/21/10 02:05 PM Re: The Three SatanicTypes [Re: Jake999]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
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Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
I'm a die hard Satanist and have laid it on the line for the cause, but there are reasons that "Satanists of worth" got that way, We (generally speaking) knew when to take opportunities that made sense and when to walk away, even when we really, really wanted to invest in special projects, even though we KNEW it would be a money pit. So we did due diligence, found the cons outweighed the pros and made sensible decisions based on the information at hand.

Dr. LaVey was not only my mentor, but a friend, and I really, really felt sorry for the condition of the Black House. But responsibility lies where responsibility lies and it wasn't with me or others who got where they were by the sweat of their brow, as much as we might have fantasized about riding in on that black stallion and saving the day.


Your post was heartfelt and not received without a degree of introspection. Why the latter? Because I have to ask myself what I would've done in the same circumstance. I get what you mean regarding responsibility and letting the dead bury their dead. However, I'm somewhat reluctantly forced to ask, "have you no vision?" And I do mean that with all level of respect. I ask you, Jake, besides making money and posting to internet fora, what do you envision Satanism as being? And what are you doing to make this a reality?

JK
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