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#44230 - 11/19/10 04:46 AM Alas.x.
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
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Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
In Satanism, we proclaim ourselves first and foremost. Our common perspective is mainly that there is no common perspective because we are not identical and while we follow the same LHP, we follow it in quite different ways. We announce (depending on the "path" that we choose to follow under the umbrella of Satanism) that we have, essentially, better things to do with our time (such as better ourselves) than to waste our breath on insignificant people that have no meaning or background in our lives.

However, over and over again, on various forums there are several self proclaimed Satanists that could probably go on and on about how little christians know and how they better wake up. Here it is.. why?

Why are there so many of us that seem to think that just randomly jumping online and posting some irrelevent to my life comments about christians and their awakening to who is wrong and who is right? Is this a boredom thing? I only ask because the last time I checked, what they are doing in their lives shouldn't have any impact on me and my emotions unless a.) they are stepping on my toes or b.) well, they are stepping on my toes.

What do you care if they want to say prayer before bedtime? What do you care if they insist that this "god" exists as long as it does not affect you personally? In an area where there is so much more to talk about one would rather try to dig deeper and deeper into individuals that don't even read what we write unless they are extremists with no lives that just happen to like to blog and be a pain in the ass online or in our lives. Even then, we can deal with that, right?

Maybe because of how I practice Satanism, I do not see the beneficial aspects of christian bashing when it is not warranted. I am not going to go hug the next christian I see (or maybe I will, most of my friends of over a decade are christian so you never know) and I am not advocating their beliefs but I AM advocating the one thing we're supposed to have in common. And that's common sense.

To reply to anyone that might have the childish response of "well they are over there talking all sorts of trash about us".. think about that statement. They may be talking trash about "us".. but it's not personal, they can't help it (duh) and they aren't REALLY affecting your life. I can't block anyone from having an opinion; nor would I want or have the drive to block such a thing.. but someone let me in on this christian bashing secret here. Do we really have to sit there and constantly bring ourselves to their level? By no means am I saying that if someone personally comes in your face about you or your belief systems to turn away and walk.. in fact by all means be my guest if it's personal.

When is everyone going to realize that they AREN'T going to magically wake up one day and go "gee these guys are right" anytime soon or ever. Why are there still individuals out there trying to figure out ways of "waking them up"? Why are there still individuals out there allowed to be called Satanists when most of their time is spent wasting away thinking of these ways to enlighten them? Why would you even want that crowd to mix with Satanism?

In fact, I go as so far to ask these people (and these people know who they are and no I do not have any specifics in mind thank you), if you are spending most of your time finding out more reasons to hate christians or even just more ways of enlightening them.. why are YOU a part of Satanism?
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#44237 - 11/19/10 09:40 AM Re: Alas.x. [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
SkaffenAmtiskaw Moderator Offline
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Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 1318
I don't hate xtians. I have better things to do with my time. Satanism is vital existence. If I got bogged down in the minutiae of who made up the hate object du jour, I would never have enough time to get anything done.

Besides, there are plenty of reasonable, intelligent religious people who seem to agree that so long as they worship their god in their own way and don't force anyone to agree with them, we're fine.

The problem isn't what you believe. The problem is what you seem to think your chosen deity demands of people around you. Plenty of people consider it their holy duty to return the non-believer to the flock.

It boils down to what authority-based arguments you choose to whip out in public. Let's leave it at that.
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#44238 - 11/19/10 09:49 AM Re: Alas.x. [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Dutch Satanist Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/19/10
Posts: 69
Loc: Delft, The Netherlands
I don't care about other people's religions. As long as those people don't try to shove their (imho) warped ideology down my throat they can believe whatever they want, and I will even be friendly and courteous with them. And if religion as a subject comes up, I will even discuss it, as long as nobody tries to convert me.

I try avoid lengthy discussions with agressive evangelicals though. I think they are a waste of time and energy.

You could say I'm more a people person. If I have to use a metaphor, I could view religion as a shirt. I might abhor someone's shirt, but I might like who's inside it. As long as he keeps his shirt to himself and not insist that I wear one as well. \:\)

I hope this metaphor works out well, English is not my first language.
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#44239 - 11/19/10 11:06 AM Re: Alas.x. [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Fnord Offline
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Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
I don't waste my time with what other people think. Incessant arguing about religion is the playground of the young who are really trying to convince themselves that they have the correct answers for their own lives.

I'm ok with christianity and with all other herd friendly activities that keep so inclined people focused on themselves and away from me. As long as they are concerned with keeping up with each other, with corporate sponsored television, with the gossip of the day, they don't have time to wonder what I'm up to which is just peachy keen with me.

Folks like the ones you're talking about seem to delight in painting targets on their own backs and probably wouldn't go far down the LHP anyway because they don't understand the basic concepts of deception and how to keep themselves cloaked properly so that working the herd is easy instead of difficult.

I mean, why did the wolf put on the sheepskin? He knew if he strolled right into the herd they'd all see him for what he was, right? Too much outward showing is counter productive pride. Constantly stepping into the spotlight and becoming the focal point of what most of the population fears is stupid, pretentious and solipsistic. I could go on with that train of thought, but you've seen those words somewhere before, right?
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#44242 - 11/19/10 01:56 PM Re: Alas.x. [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I like to make fun of theists because it is funny to me. That's really all there is to it. I don't care if they "snap out of it" or not. If you are an adult who believes in fairy tales I am going to ridicule you to no end about it.

Also, the "religious right", mainly of the Xian bend, do indeed have an affect on my life. Them trying to legislate their "morality" tries to take away from the different ways I might choose to enjoy my life and that pisses me off.

People can have their god(s) just as long as they keep them to themselves. And if they can't do that, well, all is fair in love and war.
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#44243 - 11/19/10 02:18 PM Re: Alas.x. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Dutch Satanist Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/19/10
Posts: 69
Loc: Delft, The Netherlands
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6

People can have their god(s) just as long as they keep them to themselves. And if they can't do that, well, all is fair in love and war.


I agree. Nothing gets my dander up more when someone tries to mess with my reality by trying to impose their delusions on me and not stopping when I ask them (nicely). I fully intend to comply with the rules of the earth in that regard.
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#44244 - 11/19/10 02:44 PM Re: Alas.x. [Re: Fnord]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2515
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Fnord
I mean, why did the wolf put on the sheepskin? He knew if he strolled right into the herd they'd all see him for what he was, right?

I recall a Playboy cartoon showing a rather rumpled-looking, sheepskin-clad wolf staggering back to two other concerned wolves some distance away from the sheep ... "It seemed like a good idea, but I forgot about that horny shepherd."
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#44245 - 11/19/10 02:54 PM Re: Alas.x. [Re: Dutch Satanist]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
member


Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
It is always interesting the responses that I receive in my threads when I post them in places with different members of different sites. Comparing the two I posted at shows the reality of difference between here and the elsewhere although most of you had the same the thing to say.

"Believe what you want as long as you don't fuck with me".. which, as I said, if that's that they are doing, then by all means.. fuck with them right back. My point is, if you are going to fuck with them right back, at least sound intelligent about it. I really wouldn't want to associate myself with anyone that proclaimed to be a Satanist but talked with their head up their ass.

@6- you seem to have a way with words when it comes to "making fun of theists" that doesn't throw you anywhere near this category of people. Although, I am sure you already know this. There is a saying "it's not talking shit if it's the truth". Of course, one might argue that the truth is subjective in this area but tomato, tomahto. Also, may I point out that, in your case making fun of them is not necessarily being a shit talker.. from what I have seen here, you do not post ridiculously long posts about how much you hate christains and how wrong they are.
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#44252 - 11/19/10 05:28 PM Holy Flock [Re: Fnord]
Aklo Offline
member


Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 158
Bingo!

Who is "the best friend the church has ever had, as it is he who has kept it in business all these years"? Who is it "THAT ESTABLISHED ALL SPIRITUAL RELIGIONS AND WHO WROTE ALL OF THE
HOLY BIBLES"?

Leave the sheep be. Lambchops are nice !!!
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#44253 - 11/19/10 06:36 PM Re: Holy Flock [Re: Aklo]
HeimiricIX Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/29/10
Posts: 75
Loc: Mexico City.
I believe that speaking against what you felt opressed by for a long time is one of the first things most people do when they awake into the LHP, it has a use, a breaking property that helps you separate yourself from the herd mentality that surrounded you for so long.

Most people have done it in some way or another, specially if this awakening happened in the teenage years.

The problem comes when people never pass that, they felt so good rebeling against the original status quo in their lifes that they remain static in that moment, in that time in which they broke for the first time and, as they feel they still need to speak ill of their own chains, they create other chains for themselves of constant hate and depression. They can't assume the responsability that they now can be free so they keep on insulting and blaming others for their own faults.

I do not immediatly condone this behaviour because I know it has a use, even when I didn't ever express it that same way, to some it has it's use.

Best
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#44254 - 11/19/10 07:50 PM Re: Holy Flock [Re: HeimiricIX]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2515
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: HeimiricIX
I believe that speaking against what you felt opressed by for a long time is one of the first things most people do when they awake into the LHP, it has a use, a breaking property that helps you separate yourself from the herd mentality that surrounded you for so long.

In the old Church of Satan this was the "Black Mass" principle, of which the Missa Solemnis as abridged in the Satanic Rituals was merely the Catholic version. The entire point of any "Black Mass" working is to free the celebrant from previous psychological conditioning, superstitions, constraints.

In this sense Winston Smith's visit to Room 101 in 1984 was a custom-designed "Black Mass" for him. Once experiencing it, he could never regard the previous lynchpin of his life, Julia, the same way again.
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#44255 - 11/19/10 07:51 PM Re: Alas.x. [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1724
Loc: New York
Like “6" states, sometimes it’s fun to mess with fundies, plus they do have an affect on my life because of their political strength. I do see them as a threat.

With that said, I don’t have any inclination of getting into discussions with them. I don’t care about what they have to say.

I also feel the same way about Satanists bitching about Christians. I don’t care. If they sound like nut jobs, I ignore them and that’s the end of that.
Complaining about Satanists who complain about Christians is very close to complaining about Christians who complain about Satanists. They are both a waste of time and effort.
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#44256 - 11/19/10 08:21 PM Re: Holy Flock [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino

In the old Church of Satan this was the "Black Mass" principle, of which the Missa Solemnis as abridged in the Satanic Rituals was merely the Catholic version. The entire point of any "Black Mass" working is to free the celebrant from previous psychological conditioning, superstitions, constraints.

In this sense Winston Smith's visit to Room 101 in 1984 was a custom-designed "Black Mass" for him. Once experiencing it, he could never regard the previous lynchpin of his life, Julia, the same way again.


Absolutely! And this is where the vast majority of today's "satanists" just plan get it wrong. They immediately rush to the parodying of Christian symbolisms and voila!!! The Black Mass. OK. That works ONCE. Once you've supposedly purged yourself of the limitations placed on you by Christianity, and you're then able to move on, another Black Mass to do basically the same things clearly shows that you HAVEN'T. To simply rerun the Black Mass railing against Christianity over and over again becomes little more than scab picking at best or unimaginative thinking at worst.

For example... if I were to do a Black Mass and choose Christianity as my target, it would be not only ludicrous, but a total waste to time and energy. Why, well... I long ago weeded out the need for Christianity from my being and have thrived without it. Why complain about something that has no real meaning in my life... and if you are REALLY a Satanist, that's the point you SHOULD be operating from. You're a Satanist and Christianity simply doesn't matter.

And, as I've said before, going after Christianity is about like hunting dairy cows with a high powered rifle and scope.

For the "Black Mass" to be relevant, the target of one's reproach must be relevant to the times, his life and/or the socio-religious or socio-psychological mandates of the day. Hell, if you can't find a modern-day sacred cow to go after, you don't need a Black Mass as much as you need a lobotomy!
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#44259 - 11/19/10 10:30 PM Re: Holy Flock [Re: HeimiricIX]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
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Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
I can see that for some that it has it's use. Maybe it has an almost therapeutic effect on them. However, I find it quite useless and annoying at times. Especially for those of whom that display their disgust for christians for everyone to see and yet still have not gotten there own little duckies in a row.

I call it as I see it.
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#44285 - 11/20/10 06:09 PM Re: Alas.x. [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3113
 Quote:
However, over and over again, on various forums there are several self proclaimed Satanists that could probably go on and on about how little christians know and how they better wake up. Here it is.. why?

Mental masturbation and a great need of belonging (and sometimes rebellion amongst many teenagers) would be a fair answer.
I'll admit calling out X-tians for that reason. Just for the reason I can. Sometimes to gather more specific information when I am discussing a person who knows a great deal about a particular facet of Christianity (or other religion).

Perhaps in comparisation with other people here (from which I am quite sure they are simply lying) I simply do not accept other religions invading my envirronement. I do give a fuck about it and will try to kick out almost any religion out of my way. I would love to let any person disappear who believes in god(s). I do know there could be personal benefits when believing in the different stories and fantasies, but it tends to be in my nature to be very realistic and push any fantasy-related idea or decision aside. I'm not the kind of person who lets his life depend on luck dressed in some sort of fancy coating. Seeing that religion is just that and that many in my surrounding can be considered religious in some way or another, I want it to disappear in the depths of their personal hells.
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#44292 - 11/20/10 06:46 PM Re: Alas.x. [Re: Dimitri]
HeimiricIX Offline
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Registered: 10/29/10
Posts: 75
Loc: Mexico City.
Probably because of my job (graphic design-related) and one of my personal hobbies (writing) I, on the other hand, welcome any kind of fantasy-related beliefs or stories, I don't mind them at all, unless they are trying in some way to Force them into my head I actually like to talk about them.

One of my best friends is a mormon while another really good friend is christian, both are smart (in the sense they both know of history, music, culture, one of them talks 5 languages, the other has traveled quite enough, etc), fun to be around people, they both now of my religion as well and as they don't mind I don't mind theirs either, we commonly argue about their religions or mine and we get insights of both, sometimes I learn something new about my beliefs by telling them about it or by listening to them talking about theirs or mine.

Same story with my girlfriend/wife, she was raised a catholic and though she is not active in her religion some of her god-beliefs are still there, yet she accepts that her beliefs are her own only and that she may be mistaken, we both can talk about religion (or mythology or LotR or w/e) without any problem and without any sensibility harmed.

I really don't see the point in disliking other people due their religions, a smart person won't become dumb just because of his religion and while yes it is true that the masses (stupid masses) tend to focus more into certain religions that smart people would rather avoid, there are exceptions.

Knowledge is everywhere and I'm not willing to push it away just because I may or may not feel my beliefs to be weaker or stronger.

Best.
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#44312 - 11/21/10 06:45 AM Re: Alas.x. [Re: HeimiricIX]
Dutch Satanist Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/19/10
Posts: 69
Loc: Delft, The Netherlands
I totally agree with that. I do know people who I see as friends who are christian and even some that are muslim. Some of them even like to have their beliefs challenged by me, which yields stimulating debates with no hard feelings afterwards. But I do get new and interesting insights from that, which I value, even if I don't agree with them. It still is useful to know what makes people tick, especially for lesser magic purposes.

I do have a thorough disdain for fundamentalists and evangelicals though. They really are a waste of time. I try to avoid discussions with those.
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#44314 - 11/21/10 06:48 AM Re: Alas.x. [Re: HeimiricIX]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3113
Maybe I exagerated a bit with the "all religious people must disappear".
But what I do want (and do) is not to let religious beliefs interfere with the mental capacities and minds of those around me at work or during studies. It annoys me to death when at work a perfect capable person starts talking about paranormal businesses such as reiki, ghosts, souls, and other woo-ish beliefs. A person is supposed to do its job properly and such ideas can harm productivity if not put into order.

I'm also convinced mankind could have been on a higher technological level if simply all religion was being reduced in practicing belief in your free time after work. Religious thinking always has been a hinder for productivity.
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#44316 - 11/21/10 07:20 AM Re: Alas.x. [Re: Dimitri]
Dutch Satanist Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/19/10
Posts: 69
Loc: Delft, The Netherlands
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
It annoys me to death when at work a perfect capable person starts talking about paranormal businesses such as reiki, ghosts, souls, and other woo-ish beliefs. A person is supposed to do its job properly and such ideas can harm productivity if not put into order.


Yeah, I know that feeling. My bullshit-sensor tingles when someone brings up new age stuff. I do try to see past that though, even though my capability for taking that person seriously dropped a few notches.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
I'm also convinced mankind could have been on a higher technological level if simply all religion was being reduced in practicing belief in your free time after work. Religious thinking always has been a hinder for productivity.


I see where you are getting at. And I agree to an extent. But if religious practice hampers productivity, wouldn't it be a problem that will eventually solve itself? Non productive people are more easily fired that productive ones. \:\)
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#44348 - 11/21/10 08:59 PM Re: Alas.x. [Re: Dutch Satanist]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Most people need prefabricated morality and authority. They need to submit themselves to something greater, and would be completely lost without such an outlet. Were Christianity to collapse tomorrow, something else would rise to fill its function, and probably something even worse (islam). Better the devil you know.
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#44349 - 11/21/10 08:59 PM Re: Alas.x. [Re: Dutch Satanist]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
member


Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
I, myself, have quite a few christian friends. In fact, most of them are christian. Even my ex, is catholic. They are okay people and they don't ever try to force anything on me nor I them. Their story books can be quite fascinating to read and maybe even take something from what they debate with me about but at the same time they know that is exactly what I view them as. Man written stories that serve no other purpose in my life rather than random entertainment.

Besides, I must say this, it is much easier to argue/debate against a topic with someone (such as difference in religion or otherwise) if you know what you are talking about instead of outright refusing to have anything to do with it. You don't have to practice what they preach but it is very likely that it would be easier for them to see from your point of view if you had a well rounded knowledge of THEIR point of view as well. It's more difficult for them to argue against you if you know as much if not more about what they are trying to preach and harder, as well, for them to come up with solutions to the holes in their theories as christians.
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#44351 - 11/21/10 09:03 PM Re: Alas.x. [Re: Dan_Dread]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
member


Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
Very well put Dan.

People DO need structure. At least the mass majority does. Thus the deconstruction of christianity would certainly NOT lead us to "victory" as Satanists only serve as a purpose for us to become adversaries to the next round of extremist shepherds to take hold of the reigns of the mass majority.
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#44352 - 11/21/10 09:08 PM Re: Alas.x. [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
It was bruce lee that said, in his work the tao of jeet kune do, that the trained man will always be more able to deal with a situation than the untrained man. I find this is true of philosophy in general.

Everyone needs some sort of structure, what sets who they are apart from who they are not. Most are just not capable or even aware that this structure can be manufactured rather than adopted.

What sets these two paths apart is one is static, the other, dynamic.
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#44396 - 11/22/10 01:27 PM Re: Alas.x. [Re: Dan_Dread]
Autodidact Offline
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Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 428
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread

Everyone needs some sort of structure, what sets who they are apart from who they are not. Most are just not capable or even aware that this structure can be manufactured rather than adopted.


To circle this back around to the beginning of the thread, this is why (many) people proselytize.

Many people need that structure to understand the world and function in it. Deviation from that structure is a threat to that understanding, and, because of their dependency, literally a threat to their world.

For those who are unable or unwilling to entertain such deviation - which usually means asking themselves uncomfortable questions - this threat is met as most threats are: defensiveness, anger, conversion attempts, avoidance ...

 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
It was bruce lee that said, in his work the tao of jeet kune do, that the trained man will always be more able to deal with a situation than the untrained man. I find this is true of philosophy in general.


One wonders if early schooling in philosophy and logic would ameliorate such defensiveness, or if the need is more deep-seated ... hm, maybe I should cross-post this to the nature-vs-nurture thread ...
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