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#44420 - 11/23/10 04:56 AM Necromancy
Tasman Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 6
Loc: Poland, Gubin
Necromancy. "'We never did get a chance to tell you,' wrote Diane LaVey to me in August, "what happened during that very special ritual Anton performed in Hollywood. What happened, on the night of August 4-5, was a work of necromancy." (Michael A. Aquino Church of Satan). What is opinion Church of Satan with necromancy? Dr. LaVey really calling the anima of Marilyn Monroe? Some are Satanist's book about Necromancy?
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#44436 - 11/24/10 03:02 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: Tasman]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2573
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA

A YELLOW ROSE FOR A WHITE CAT
- by Michael A. Aquino VI°, GM.Tr.
Runes #III-6, October 1985
Order of the Trapezoid
Temple of Set

 Originally Posted By: Anton Szandor LaVey, Cloven Hoof July-August 1973
IN MEMORIAM
MARILYN MONROE
who succumbed on the 5th of August, 1962 CE at 1:22 AM on the Day of the Locust. Her sacrifice has served to speed the Malpocalypse and vanquish her betrayers. As an Angel of Earth, she is risen.
Chi raffrena il mio furore ....?

 Originally Posted By: M.A.A., Runes #I-2, September 1983
On the evening of August 5, XVIII - precisely ten years after Anton and Diane's working - Lilith and I duplicated the working on location at 12305 Fifth Helena Drive - with certain deliberate modifications. After a calculated elapse of time we will complete the second part of the working, with results to be announced within whatever channels of the Temple and Order as seem appropriate.

Even in the Church of Satan and Temple of Set, it has always been difficult to discuss the more scalp-tingling kinds of magical workings. Of all the episodes recounted in my Church of Satan history, none has been more controversial than the description of Anton and Diane LaVey's invocation of Marilyn Monroe on the eve of August 5, VIII -and Anton's subsequent evocation of the anima of Marilyn in my presence in the Central Grotto's Council Chamber.

Philosophy is one thing; applied LBM workings another; subjective GBM workings yet another. But stark violations of what is considered to be established “natural law” strain listener credibility. Hence wise magicians tend not to talk about such things; they simply do them, appreciate them, and learn from them.

Nevertheless the four Marilyn Monroe workings have served to catalyze such remarkable developments that it seems appropriate to discuss them. Skeptics are now allowed a moment to register their misgivings: [_________]

Good - Now that that’s taken care of and everyone’s at ease, let’s talk a little necromancy.

The purpose of the first MM Working (Brentwood: A.&D. LaVey), as Anton later explained it to me, was to see if any of her residual life-force remained in the locus of her death. The “reversal” of the death-trip, coupled with a gradually-strengthened heartbeat, was designed to activate and attract any such lingering anima, hopefully resulting in a physical manifestation that could be identified. Result: The white cat that greeted the LaVeys at Marilyn’s house. [MM had once remarked that, were she ever to return to life, she would prefer to be reincarnated as a white cat.]

The purpose of the second MM Working (San Francisco: A. LaVey & M.A.A.) was to attract the anima through a combination of will-power and a controlled, highly negative-ionized environment. Anton strongly suspected foul play in connection with her “suicide”; he was looking for an indication to verify or refute this. The manifestation of the bloody, contorted corpse on the bed in the Council Chamber sufficed to indicate that his suspicions were not unfounded, [Here I may digress to comment that anima manifestations result from the releasing or activating of relatively unintelligent, gross materia. This is easier to work with than something as complex as disembodied intellect, obviously, but its response will be sub-intellectual: a kind of blind, unthinking “answering” of what might be approximated as a summons for old molecular patterns to reassert themselves. In some old magical grimoires anima-manifestations are referred to as “elementals”.]

The purpose of the third MM Working (Brentwood: M.&L. Aquino) was to reawaken the anima precisely ten years after its first activation, with the ultimate intent of setting in motion a chain of events that would avenge the injustices revealed by the second Working. As alluded to in the earlier Runes article, this working contained elements from the first one: the reversed death-trip and the strengthened heartbeat. Several elements were added, however:

(1) Biosone Alpha/Theta brain-wave monitoring, set to register only Theta.

(2) Negative ion generation within the closed automobile.

(3) Opening of the Gate: Utterance of the Nineteenth Part of the Word of Set, directed towards the Fifteenth Æthyr OXO, of which it is said:

 Originally Posted By: Aleister Crowley, The Vision and The Voice
There appears immediately in the Æthyr a tremendous column of scarlet fire, whirling forth, rebounding, crying aloud. And about it are four columns of green and blue and gold and silver, each inscribed with writings in the character of the dagger. And the column of fire is dancing among the pillars. Now it seems that the fire is but the skirt of the dancer, and the dancer is a mighty god. The vision is overpowering.

As the dancer whirls, she chants in a strange, slow voice, quickening as she goes: Lo! I gather up every spirit that is pure, and weave him into my vesture of flame. I lick up the lives of men, and their souls sparkle from mine eyes. I am the mighty sorceress, the lust of the spirit. And by my dancing I gather for my mother Nuit the heads of all them that are baptised in the waters of life. I am the lust of the spirit that eateth up the soul of man. I have prepared a feast for the adepts, and they that partake thereof shall see God.

(4) Unleashing of the anima: Presentation of the Mennu. [It is this which was imperfectly recited in The Awakening, 1980 film version of The Jewel of Seven Stars]:

 Originally Posted By: XXIX Chapter, Book of Opening the Mouth
Your mouth is opened for you, and you speak through it. Your two eyes are opened for you, and you see through them. Your two ears are opened for you, and you hear through them. Your Essence quickens in you by the Great One of Words of Power.

[I do not intend to discuss the Mennu proper, as it is essential to the Working, and I am extremely wary of necromancy even by well-meaning magicians. As is noted in the Temple of Set Reading List, the Book of Opening the Mouth is not something to be casually fooled around with, thank you!]

The atmosphere in the ritual chamber grew chill and was accompanied by increasing sensations of mental distress, fear, and symptoms of physical illness. Theta-feedback, which had appeared to increase gradually during the “reverse” trip, ceased abruptly when these symptoms manifested. Alpha was present, but at lower-than-normal levels. [It would have been interesting to measure Beta, but the monitors were not so equipped.]

The anima-manifestations remained at a high level for several minutes [though a precise record was not kept of elapsed time], then became fainter and ultimately became undetectable. The impression was that of a directional departure rather than of a dissolving or reduction to components.

The working completed, it was then a question of awaiting the results -and, as the Satanic Bible so rightly observes, of not interrupting or distorting the working by premature, interim statements or actions.

The results of the working can be see, by those who are able to see them, in Anthony Summers’ just-published (1985) book Goddess: The Secret Lives of Marilyn Monroe (NY: Macmillan). This is not to imply that the author's discoveries, which commenced the year prior to the third working, were not properly the outcome of his exhaustive and painstaking detective work. Suffice it to say that a great many factors came together in an unprecedented fashion - factors which, while extant earlier, were not available or recognizable in a cohesive pattern. You may call this coincidence if you prefer.

 Originally Posted By: Anthony Summers
Today, for the first time, taking all the evidence into account, we can build a scenario for the last days and hours of Marilyn’s life. It seems that for many months she engaged in intermittent sexual encounters with both the President and Robert Kennedy...

Evidence offered by Summers points to a secret trip by RFK to Los Angeles on the day of Marilyn’s death - to emphasize to her that further liaisons could not continue. After he left Brentwood for Peter Lawford’s beach house, the distraught Monroe made repeated calls for help, including to the Lawford house. While it is possible that Kennedy enemies such as Sam Giancana and Jimmy Hoffa may, as Summers delicately puts it, “have played an active role in Marilyn’s last hours”, he judges her death to have been accidental - the result of an underestimated accumulation of barbiturates in her system that day, coupled with a too-large final dose.

As a consequence of Marilyn’s last, semiconscious call to the Lawford house at 10 PM, Summers concludes that either RFK or Lawford - or both - hastened to her house on Fifth Helena Drive, where they found her unconscious:

 Originally Posted By: Anthony Summers
Here the evidence that an ambulance was called, albeit fragmentary, becomes pivotal. If the director of the ambulance company is correct, Marilyn was taken from the house still alive. She may have died on arrival at Santa Monica Hospital where, without makeup and swathed in blankets, she may not have been recognized. This author thinks it more likely that Marilyn died before arriving at the hospital - that someone accompanying her, perhaps Robert Kennedy himself, was faced with an awful dilemma.

Marilyn was dead, under circumstances that could spell utter ruin for the Attorney General. Even had he never had an affair with Marilyn -and all the evidence suggests the contrary - for a Kennedy to be found with a dead Marilyn Monroe, even on a legitimate mission of mercy, would have meant certain political disaster. The solution was to return the body to the house in Brentwood, and into the bed from which she had made her last, frantic calls. Now time was needed, above all time to allow Robert Kennedy to slip out of town, time for a cleanup operation at Marilyn’s home. Only when all this had been accomplished did a call go out to Dr. Greenson, who duly came to ‘discover’ the body sometime between 3:30 and 4:00 AM.

I would like to emphasize that Summers’ reconstruction is by no means a “tabloid spectacular”. It is the result of years of investigation, all of which is detailed in the book. He has a great deal more to say than has been recounted here, but for that you should really read the book itself, as it presents the entire investigation in a systematic manner.

Summers’ book impacts like a red-hot poker on the endless accounts of Marilyn’s “suicide” by endless “authority figures” such as coroner Noguchi, L.A. Police Chief Daryl Gates, and even Kenneth Anger (who in his Hollywood Babylon II brushes aside the question of her death, citing Noguchi - and turns to indelicate photography instead). Summers’ book jolted ABC Television’s 20/20, which is working on an MM-death episode to be aired a week or so from now. 20/20 recently hit up Gates for the LAPD records of its 1975 reinvestigation [it seems the original 1962 records were “routinely” destroyed]. This past Monday (9/23/85) the LAPD, spooked by 20/20, released a heavily-censored version of the 1975 records -which a spokesman said would “dispel the ‘speculation, innuendo, and out-and-out lies’ that Monroe was the victim of foul play.” - L.A. Times

This would all be fine - except that Summers’ evidence points to the cover-up being masterminded by the Justice Department in a rare moment of cooperation between RFK and J. Edgar Hoover - who, though disliking one another, shared a common interest in thwarting Jimmy Hoffa’s planned exposé of the RFK/MM connection via his wiretapper Bernard Spindel. A prominent private-eye firm and public-relations agent also seem rather more than casually involved ... with the LAPD bringing up the rear - like Inspector Trout in the Phibes films arriving when the hot stuff was already elsewhere. Nice try, Chief Gates - but it would appear that the White Cat is finally out of the bag.



The purpose of the fourth MM Working (Westwood Memorial Park: M. & L. Aquino, 9/7/85) was to return the anima to rest - 12 years after its first Summoning. For many reasons, details of this working shall remain undisclosed - save to say that it involved a single yellow rosebud.

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#44438 - 11/24/10 06:42 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
HeimiricIX Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/29/10
Posts: 75
Loc: Mexico City.
This small message is just to thank you, Dr. Aquino, for sharing this working-information with us outside the ToS, it was a very interesting read and it gave me a few things to study and work with.

Best regards,
X.
_________________________
HeimiricIX - Made you look

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#44443 - 11/25/10 01:20 AM Re: Necromancy [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



Yes, thanks for this post Dr. It is an interesting and remarkable one I think.

You and Lilith and the LaVey’s certainly possess(ed) a tremendous gift I think. My understanding of this aspect of magic and the skills of a magician in this area is lacking and in need of further study.

I would have certainly liked to have seen you and LaVey involved in a working together. I am interested in advanced workings, but am not a mindless dabbler.

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#44446 - 11/25/10 03:40 AM Re: Necromancy [Re: ]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Having searched lazily over the forums... finding nothing but this on the topic, I'd like to ask a serious question.

What is the definition of "Necromancy", to you, who seem to know something?

Nice piece of history though, and I'm not trying to interrupt the thread at all.

Maybe put it into perspective... a request. Please.

Communication is limited to symbols? Animals having acceptance for certain individuals? Images... No dialogue in human language? One that I might know?

Quoting Crowley's work on the Aethyrs... it's mundane, and insulting. Much respect Dr. Aquino... but that was just fucking awful.

Daeve.
_________________________
Where we're going, we don't need roads.

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#44462 - 11/25/10 07:26 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: daevid777]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2573
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: daevid777
What is the definition of "Necromancy", to you, who seem to know something?

Google it.

 Quote:
Quoting Crowley's work on the Aethyrs... it's mundane, and insulting. Much respect Dr. Aquino... but that was just fucking awful.

Liber 418 was a GBM working utilizing the 19th Key, and those Keys in their Elizabethan form were developed by John Dee & Edward Kelly, who were extensively involved in necromancy. Anton LaVey was well aware of this when researching the Keys for inclusion in the SB, though he sensibly omitted all the combinations but LIL* from the 19th. OXO was pertinent to the MM Workings, and the Crowley comment here was not used in any of the Workings proper, but included here simply as one illustration of what the 15th Æthyr can precipitate, that's all. Like the Book of Opening the Mouth, stay away from 19/OXO in GBM. It isn't the kas which are the problem, it's the materia.

As Jake can doubtless attest, Anton was in the habit of making spontaneous magical experiments when the inspiration struck him, and if you happened to be around and he thought you would catalyze rather than inhibit it, you'd get a surprise invitation. That's what happened to me concerning the 2nd MM Working, and it was definitely

* which under the circumstances was pretty hilarious.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#44463 - 11/25/10 08:29 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



I wanted to add some more thoughts because my first post was too brief.

I definitely think that the official version of the Marilyn Monroe death story is wrong or flawed, or a cover up.

MM was far too close to a whole lot of very powerful people Dr., such as the Kennedy’s, the mob, and from what I understand the communists. And I just bet Hoover had something to do with it. He had files on everybody, including the Kennedy’s. I’m not sure how smart MM was really. She tends to come across as this play thing, or puppet of all these powerful people and I think she may have been silenced for some reason – maybe she was going to speak out, or she was perceived as an unpredictable element or a risk for some other reason? I think she may have abused medication, but something still stinks.

In regards to the Book of Opening the Mouth. I am interested in all the level 5 books from the Temples reading list, but have certainly noted the warning label. I bought a book called Egyptian Magic, published by Dover and put together by Wallis Budge and I believe this book may contain the Book of Opening the Mouth. I have an avid interest in these level 5 works, but I like to study them rather than trying to use them in workings. Dr., do you know this Wallis Budge book? Is it a useful one? It seems to be to me.

In regards to necromancy. I realise that my knowledge and practice of magic could be considered to be fairly one - dimensional. I use magic to obtain personal power, or to resolve a situation in my favour, or to bring something about when nothing else will do the job. It is strange and interesting to read about magical workings regarding necromancy.

I am assuming that a great deal of knowledge is required to make this magic work and for it to be done safely. I definitely think that magician’s such as yourself, and LaVey and Crowley are qualified to do it. I am just wondering if you could talk about the sort of training you went through to be able to do this successfully and the sorts of works you and LaVey may have drawn on.

(Would appreciate Jake’s input here as well) Finally, did LaVey and the Church of Satan pursue this sort of magic besides the MM workings? I get the feeling Dr. that a whole body of magical knowledge has been built up and is stored somewhere (tablets of Set?) Did the Church of Satan have a store of magical knowledge as well? And if so, where is it?

I have nothing against the current Church, but they don’t seem to be exploring magical practice and building a store of knowledge. Then again, maybe…

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#44464 - 11/25/10 08:46 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino

As Jake can doubtless attest, Anton was in the habit of making spontaneous magical experiments when the inspiration struck him, and if you happened to be around and he thought you would catalyze rather than inhibit it, you'd get a surprise invitation.


LOL! More like a summons or simply... "You know Jake, what I have in mind is..." But yeah... I know what you mean. It was an honor when you realized he would include you in one of his projects, and you had to be open minded, daring and a bit off of your rocker. Thankfully, I was.

I joked with him that I sometimes knew how Jaques Cousteau's son Phillippe felt. "Today, we will dive into the den of the deadly sea anal borers. I will monitor Phillippe's progress on the TV monitor from here on Calypso while he makes his way deeper and deeper into the cave of the anal borers, being careful not to disturb them in the slightest, lest they attack him and use their razor sharp, coiling penises to plant their seed deep with in his anus. Hopefully, we can get a picture of the King Anal Borer in his nest beneath the sea... or a sample of Anal Borer semen from Phillipp'e ass."
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#44466 - 11/25/10 10:16 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: daevid777]
Aklo Offline
member


Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 158
 Quote:
Quoting Crowley's work on the Aethyrs... it's mundane, and insulting. Much respect Dr. Aquino... but that was just fucking awful.


LOL, That's magic for you, man. If it makes an otherwise perfectly rational person roll their eyes up in disgust and foam at the mouth about how awful it is, well, you are in the right neighborhood. I use Crowley material quite a bit, but, to keep your self-respect, I recommend you "unvarnish" and otherwise pee in it to taste.

 Originally Posted By: Anton Szandor LaVey
Naturally, there is a reasonable level of possible emotional
response which must be understood when selecting a litany to
he used for ceremonial purposes. A wizard or cultist of 1800
may have thrilled at his words when speaking of "waiting at the
darkness visible, lifting our eyes to that bright Morning Star,
whose rising brings peace and salvation to the faithful and
obedient of the human race." Now he may say, "standing at
the gates of Hell to summon Lucifer, that he might rise and
show himself as the harbinger of balance and truth to a world
grown heavy with the spawn of holy lies," in order to engender
the same emotional response.
_________________________
Behold, I send you forth as wolves among sheep; eat Lambchop for supper and fuck Bo Peep!

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#44472 - 11/26/10 03:13 AM Re: Necromancy [Re: Aklo]
Tasman Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 6
Loc: Poland, Gubin
Necromantia is: "the raising of a dead body to life" (Church of Satan, Michael A. Aquino)

Dr. Aquino say:

 Quote:
[I do not intend to discuss the Mennu proper, as it is essential to the Working, and I am extremely wary of necromancy even by well-meaning magicians. As is noted in the Temple of Set Reading List, the Book of Opening the Mouth is not something to be casually fooled around with, thank you!]


I wrote to Peggy Nadramia with question about necromancy. She say: "Necromancy is bullshit."

Ok, I understand: this is secret. But with Michael A. Aquino's Church of Satan is ritual of necromancy, who authorship is Dale Seago.

 Quote:

Ritual of Necromancy
-by L. Dale Seago III°
August 24, VII/1972

Concern'g ye Com'g Again from ye Dead, and ye Manner of its Accomplishment:

First, it will be necessary to open ye Gate, and to this end ye may employ ye conjuration for ye Summon'g of Spirits which is found herein (as'g ye 13 Steps, which are to be found only in ye Biblica Satanis - This applieth for all these Rituals in ye Booke), leav'g out, however, all things of ye nature of Threats!, or Forcible Inducements, which wou'd vex me exceed'gly, see'g I ma yr Brother in Satan, which is ye modern name of ye Gr. Old One who shall cause ye Gate to be Op'd.

Ye employment of ye 11th Key in this Rite will establish for me a substenance beyond ye Grave and enable me to work and manifest upon this Plane. And I appear not visibly upon ye Summon'g, repeat ye Conjuration till thou hast said it thrice, and entreat me in ye Name of Him who rulest this World, and by ye Great Love which is between us always, to appear. And if I still appear not visibly, no matter, for ye shal feel me presence among ye, and verily I shal be with ye. (...)


What with this ritual? It work?

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#44473 - 11/26/10 04:38 AM Re: Necromancy [Re: Tasman]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
A side note question...

If I had used Necromancy to bring back to life my kitty who died in my arms about a week ago, would it be a living cat or kinda like a zombie? Are they ever the same once you bring them back? I was too emotionally upset to even think of this option, which I am sure I have the recipe for someplace in my library.

Dr. Aquino, thank you for sharing that about MM. I have special affinity, place in my heart for her. It sounds like it must have been an amazing experience.

M.
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#44478 - 11/26/10 01:32 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: Tasman]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2573
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Tasman
What with this ritual? It work?

No, that was just Dale hav'g some funne with H.P. Lovecraft's 18th-cent. writ'g style
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#44480 - 11/26/10 02:34 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: Morgan]
Aklo Offline
member


Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 158
Hi Morgan, sorry to hear about your loss.

 Quote:
If I had used Necromancy to bring back to life my kitty who died in my arms about a week ago, would it be a living cat or kinda like a zombie?


Assuming you are sane, neither. "Necromancy" involves tapping into the left-over "energy" (mental constructs) that were focused on the departed. The result you would get would likely be in the form of a "ghost" (dream or vision) or else "synchronicity" (a meaningful coincidence like the white cat in Dr. Aquino's story and/or the information about Marilyn which he attributes as the final result of the spell.)

In general, ghosts aren't the actual person who has gone on so much as this left-over energy expressing itself in various spooky ways. Often enough it is associated with particular places and may involve real electrochemical impressions made on those areas and then reinforced by the emotional experiences of people encountering them.

Reincarnation is a more useful model, but I won't yammer on about it here except to say that if you did such a spell with that model in mind, what you might be lucky enough to get is another kitty or loved one who started up about where yours had left off.
_________________________
Behold, I send you forth as wolves among sheep; eat Lambchop for supper and fuck Bo Peep!

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#44498 - 11/28/10 04:28 AM Re: Necromancy [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Dr. Aquino, and others,

I guess what I meant was misconstrued... possibly.

I dig on Crowley. I'm not a real "Follower" of Anton LaVey. I think it's wonderful what he did (hell, we can't discount that!), and what he attempted to do as well.

Kas, materia... is this the Khabs, the Ku? New terminology...

Nonetheless, I see a synthesis with Satanism as "I" see it, and Crowley's Thelema. I just don't like it when people who discredit Crowley, have no problem with hijacking his workings... The last so many pages of the SB... I was a great fan up until then. "Don't even read the last pages... it's just bullshit" That's my advice to anyone who reads it.

That's what I meant, Aklo (?) when I meant "Mundane"... I didn't mean Crowley. I used the word inappropriately, sorry. Most around here are simply "Atheists"... and that's cool. Some are "Atheists with a Role Model"... and that's cool too.

I think some people want more, to find out more... I'm in that category. And I know enough to know I could go quite insane... but, no risk, no gain. I can only change myself now, my only magick is ME. Sounds arrogant, but it's really not. I just know I'm at that place.

Morgan, if you do read this crap of mine, I'm so sorry. I was at a place in time, wanting so bad to bring back... I would have done anything.

Yeah.... Soo....
_________________________
Where we're going, we don't need roads.

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#44499 - 11/28/10 04:44 AM Re: Necromancy [Re: daevid777]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
I understand Daevid, I understand.

hugs
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#44500 - 11/28/10 10:27 AM Re: Necromancy [Re: Morgan]
Tasman Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 6
Loc: Poland, Gubin
 Originally Posted By: Aklo

In general, ghosts aren't the actual person who has gone on so much as this left-over energy expressing itself in various spooky ways. Often enough it is associated with particular places and may involve real electrochemical impressions made on those areas and then reinforced by the emotional experiences of people encountering them.


 Originally Posted By: Dr.Anton LaVey, The Devil's Notebook, "How to Become a Werewolf"

Everyone has at some time or other wandered into an area of such foreboding that it is felt that someone or something is
lurking in the shadows, watching, ready to spring and devour. Perhaps it was a deserted house, perhaps a lonely path through
the trees, possibly an abandoned quarry. In many cases it is known or discovered that such areas have witnessed death of an
unexpected or unusual nature, or perhaps mayhem, rape, or other violence. All actions involving intense or increased
production of adrenaline on the part of either victim or perpetrator (lust, terror, aggression, defense, etc.) is followed by
detumescence in the form of varying degrees of receptivity (shock, total submission, unconsciousness, death, etc.)


The raising of a dead body to life is danger? Why?

Dear Dr. Aquino: I am interested in advanced workings. How I can examine Necromancy? Where look for?

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#44502 - 11/28/10 01:41 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: Tasman]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2573
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Tasman
 Originally Posted By: Aklo
In general, ghosts aren't the actual person who has gone on so much as this left-over energy expressing itself in various spooky ways. Often enough it is associated with particular places and may involve real electrochemical impressions made on those areas and then reinforced by the emotional experiences of people encountering them.

 Originally Posted By: Dr.Anton LaVey, The Devil's Notebook, "How to Become a Werewolf"
Everyone has at some time or other wandered into an area of such foreboding that it is felt that someone or something is lurking in the shadows, watching, ready to spring and devour. Perhaps it was a deserted house, perhaps a lonely path through the trees, possibly an abandoned quarry. In many cases it is known or discovered that such areas have witnessed death of an unexpected or unusual nature, or perhaps mayhem, rape, or other violence. All actions involving intense or increased production of adrenaline on the part of either victim or perpetrator (lust, terror, aggression, defense, etc.) is followed by detumescence in the form of varying degrees of receptivity (shock, total submission, unconsciousness, death, etc.)

Correct, and see this.

 Originally Posted By: Tasman
The raising of a dead body to life is danger? Why?

Um, this will give you the general idea.

 Originally Posted By: Tasman
Dear Dr. Aquino: I am interested in advanced workings. How I can examine Necromancy? Where look for?

Trust me: No you aren't, don't, and be glad I'm not telling you.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#44505 - 11/28/10 02:50 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Necromancy, ghosts, zombies - oh my!

Seriously? *sigh*

"Sometimes, dead is better."

I heard that one time some dude was crucified but came back to life after 3 days. There is a book about it.
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#44516 - 11/29/10 03:28 AM Re: Necromancy [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
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A post that leads to a post, linked to another post, that explains the post in the quote that was in a quote, that was quoted by someone else who posted something somewhere that had something to do with the post that was or wasn't originally posted...

Yeah... it makes perfect sense.

I guess I need to work on my low attention span, which I never had before... but in this case, it's just ridiculous.

I'm not on the Midnight Madness treasure hunt for Fagabeefee...
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#44526 - 11/29/10 02:39 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: daevid777]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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Registered: 09/28/08
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Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: daevid777
A post that leads to a post, linked to another post, that explains the post in the quote that was in a quote, that was quoted by someone else who posted something somewhere that had something to do with the post that was or wasn't originally posted... Yeah... it makes perfect sense.

It does?

This thread began as a simple question about the MM Working (#2), which I answered with the later Runes article, that's all. Somehow the thread lurched on into a Night of the Living Dead caper, which is only fun up to a point.

In the early/carefree days of the Church of Satan, Diane LaVey once had some fun cooking up a leg of lamb and serving it, with appropriate "carefully screened invitations" and due drama, as "long pig" (e.g. human being). That was before my time, but the LaVeys later told me all the SFPD grief that resulted from it, with the cops finally satisfied that the Church wasn't emulating the Trench sisters.

 Originally Posted By: Burton Wolfe, The Black Pope
I remind you that this is Anton’s story of the lecture on cannibalism. Diane told me the details as I wrote them for publication were correct. That was in 1974. Now she claims that stories told by her and Anton were fabrications. Whether or not the cannibalism story is one of those I cannot possibly know because Diane is no longer willing to talk to me, if she became willing to do so it would make no difference because it is impossible to determine when she is being truthful and when she is lying, and I do not know of anyone else who attended the lecture and is still alive.

Here, from Anton’s and Diane’s account as it appeared in The Devil’s Avenger, is the way that Anton’s lecture on cannibalism was “illustrated”: by practicing it (sort of).

The main course for the meal was supplied by a Berkeley physician attending the Friday night seminars. It consisted of the upper thigh of a white American female, aged forty-two, who had died in an East San Francisco Bay hospital. She had been biopsied by the Berkeley physician [who supplied the thigh]. Diane…was chosen chef. She basted the flesh in fruit juices, Triple Sec, and grenadine; and served it with fried bananas and yams, just as the Fiji Islanders once prepared their puaka balava (“long pig,” their name for the meat of humans). Diane served the dish with Tonka bean wine and caterpillars. The participants who shared the meal after Anton’s midnight seminar [more accurately Friday night lecture] agreed that it tasted like a cross between pork and lamb: saltier than lamb, sweeter than pork, not as tender as lamb, rather tightly fibered like pork chops.

I asked Anton and Diane to name names. They put me off, arguing that revealing the names would jeopardize the positions of everyone at the hospital involved. I should have countered that argument by assuring them I would keep the names confidential. But, as I explained in my introduction, we had become close friends. It occurred to me that they would construe my insistence on checking out their story as distrust of them. So, I let it go. Mea culpa. That was a mistake I would not repeat today. I deeply regret it, because now there seems to be no way of determining whether or not the story, as well as some of the others among the Anton-Diane tales, is true.

[One note of interest: According to John Elphinstone Erskine, in his book Journal of a Cruise Among the Islands of the Western Pacific (1853), the literal translation of puaka balava is “long pig,” but at least in the way the Fiji Islander cannibals used the term, it meant “human body.”]

So unless you want someone digging up graves and saying, "Yeah, I learned how to do this on the 600 Club!", you've got to cool things down a bit.
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Michael A. Aquino

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#44532 - 11/29/10 09:28 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Aklo Offline
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Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 158
 Quote:
the literal translation of puaka balava is “long pig,” but at least in the way the Fiji Islander cannibals used the term, it meant “human body.”


Mmmm, vittles. Supposedly back in the days of the cargo cults, one of the corporations noticed that the Solomon Islanders and other Melanesian ethnos had an inordinate liking for canned spam. When asked about it, a chief explained that "it was the only way to get missionary now".

Or something like that \:\)

------

 Quote:
Somehow the thread lurched on


It's because we seem to be dealing with a confusion between Necromancy and Zuvembi. Ritual Magic, powerful as it is, won't reanimate rotting corpses in the physical world, sorry.

For the record, zombies are a wicked piece of misdirection. What you do is, you pick someone out, someone strong that you don't like. You catch a blowfish, and extract the poison by one of any number of means, which I won't detail. Then you poison the selected victim with it. He appears to die, and is mourned and buried by his relatives. You dig him up quickly, and give him a nice shot of adrenaline or similar stimulant. He isn't really dead, just in extreme catatonia which can be fixed. What can't be fixed is the severe injury to his frontal lobes. He can no longer think for himself, and is essentially a beast of burden. Wave your wand, send him out to menace the countryside, make him plow your fields etc.

 Quote:
Yeah, I learned how to do this on the 600 Club!


None of this is to be confused with Nigromancy, which is what we are supposed to be doing here. Take your dark weird energy wherever you can get it; but don't be deluded into thinking it is something other than fuel.
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Behold, I send you forth as wolves among sheep; eat Lambchop for supper and fuck Bo Peep!

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#44584 - 12/03/10 07:57 AM Re: Necromancy [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
People are insane...

No helping them... I understand though.

You have a better conscience than I... and a very twisted sense of humour...

Unfortunately, I find myself actually liking it...

Dealing with Necromancy... I've had enough dreams, not always good.... it makes me weary, and wary...

My cat, McNabbs... (All In The Family Neighbors), hadn't seen him in a few days... he came back... covered in oil... petroleum shit, all gunked up... I gave him a bath in my basement bathtub... he's so strong... I held him in the warm water... but I could feel his muscles... under the fur... he could have scratched the fuck out of me... very sweet kitty... he didn't hurt me at all. The water turned brown... instantly... Dawn soap bubble bath...

My house is cold, my teeth are gold, I wear a hat that's old, I have a bird I like to hold... My hat is old, my teeth are gold, and now my story is all told....

My cat is looking sharp and shiny though... No one fucks with my kitties... even if they live outdoors...

Thread started with the title of "Necromancy". Maybe that was a bad choice. Crowley "sacrificed" a child...

I'm cool.

Daeve.
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#44624 - 12/05/10 03:15 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: daevid777]
Master Magick Offline
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Registered: 01/06/09
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Loc: New York, USA
I wanted to add my thanks to Michael Aquino for posting the MM working information. Curious, what is your feeling after a time to the actual 'success' of the working(s) themselves (you mentioned you would have liked beta recording capability for example) and did anyone else involved share their thoughts with you afterwards?

@Morgan sorry to hear about kitty, we lost ours of 19 years not long ago ...
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#52295 - 04/06/11 02:58 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: Morgan]
ofwolves Offline
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Registered: 04/06/11
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(random thoughts)
Have any of you read Liber Falxifer it is a wonderfull insigt to the necrosophic currents. I think if the body is an empty shel why not fill it with the flow of another who wants to return where is the harm there evrybody is hapy. they started to produce copies again i think there are a few left.

personaly i think the dead sould rest, if you were to be able to channel natural energy to the dead and reinstate some form of life thats something different, and if you could manage a conciousness without a true being operating the intarnal workings of the Husk then you are legendary.
I think the greeks had workings on the matter if anyone knows my ears are open
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#52310 - 04/06/11 05:16 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: ofwolves]
The Zebu Offline
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Loc: Orlando, FL
Think you've been following the advice in your signature a bit too often.

Necromancy is an incredibly rich wellspring of tradition and occult praxis. Necromantic practices are not bound to any particular religion or "belief", as they are nearly hardwired into our cultural subconscious.

Falxifer is an interesting insight into afro-hispanic-american folk sorcery with some qliphotic Satan-y bits thrown in for taste, but speculating on the ultimate nature of consciousness is different matter entirely.

Personally, it seems futile to me to speculate on the idea of consciousness outside the body, unless you can come up with a genuinely novel explanation of a mechanism that would allow this, outside of the vague "life energy" notion that we've been tossing around for millenia.
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#55687 - 06/11/11 04:14 AM Re: Necromancy [Re: The Zebu]
Zophos Offline
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Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 115
Loc: U.S.A.
Michael A.Aquino:

 Quote:
Liber 418 was a GBM working utilizing the 19th Key, and those Keys in their Elizabethan form were developed by John Dee & Edward Kelly, who were extensively involved in necromancy.

Can you provide a reference for the latter claim?



The Zebu:

 Quote:
[Liber] Falxifer is an interesting insight into afro-hispanic-american folk sorcery with some qliphotic Satan-y bits thrown in for taste, but speculating on the ultimate nature of consciousness is different matter entirely.

Oy vey. I realize that virtually all magicians and "keepers of dark knowledge" are morons, but come on.

Since I've recently been on a roll of assailing dog Latin and its vessels anyway (occultniks, consider yourselves warned), I might as well express my weary amusement that "N.A-A.218" couldn't be bothered to check that the title of his own book was correct before publishing it. Not only did he fail to render "Falxifer" into the genitive case, but the word itself is a butchered agglutination of falx ("sickle") and ferre ("to bear"). In plain language, falx should have been rendered into the genitive falcis—as can be seen on the website of a savvier necromancer—prior to agglutination. (Indeed, what may be most humorous is that, since both falx and lux are third-declension nouns ending in x, the author already had an exact model in the compound word lucifer!) A dash of salt, a second-declension genitive ending, a quick stir, and voila: Liber Falciferi.


Z.
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#55810 - 06/13/11 09:26 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: Zophos]
Dialectical Offline
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I just read that website, Zophos. It was a lot like a RPG.
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#55813 - 06/13/11 10:17 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: Dialectical]
Zophos Offline
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Posts: 115
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I'm aware. I was pointing out the fact that its creator at least had the knowledge or common sense to be sure that he was correct on basic points of Latin.


Z.
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#55818 - 06/14/11 01:05 AM Re: Necromancy [Re: Zophos]
Dialectical Offline
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Registered: 06/12/11
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I'm also aware of what you were doing. 1) I'm perceptive 2) It's not that difficult to understand 3) Your comments to the supposed founder of South African whatever was one of the first posts that I read a couple of days ago.

Zophos, are you a strict materialist or do you believe that some rituals work and there are no developed models or theories to explain why? If the latter is true, I'm curious to what you find is "real magic."

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#55850 - 06/14/11 07:38 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: Zophos]
The Zebu Offline
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Yeah, reminds me of some of my more recent rants about the ONA's (mis)use of Latin. Classical tongues are REAL LANGUAGES, not Enochian gobbledygook that means whatever you want it to. (*Waits to be assaulted by Dee fanboys insisting on the linguistic integrity of Enochian). I'm just glad that somebody else is as anal about it as I am.

 Quote:
Liber 418 was a GBM working utilizing the 19th Key, and those Keys in their Elizabethan form were developed by John Dee & Edward Kelly, who were extensively involved in necromancy.


Dee was undoubtedly familiar with necromancy and possessed numerous books and grimoires on the subject. But whether or not Dee actually practiced it or not, seems unlikely, as the man had a lofty, sanctimonious view of magic, always sure to follow the angel's instructions that he didn't dare use "evil arts". Overtly necromantic books that have been ascribed to him, such as the Libellus Veneri Nigro Sacer, are arguably psuedonymous.

Kelly, on the other hand, may have, believably, practiced the dark arts, not being restrained by the piety of his one-time associate. In any case, I seriously doubt that their Enochian practices resembled Crowley's work in the slightest.


Edited by The Zebu (06/14/11 07:41 PM)
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#55863 - 06/14/11 11:35 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: The Zebu]
Morgan Offline
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Registered: 08/29/07
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Dee and Kelly worked at the whim of British royalty. I doubt they would admit publicly to any types of working that could get them locked up. My memory fails me, but they had to be involved in "things" before they got involved with the Enochian otherwise a sane unexposed man would think himself mad.

"In any case, I seriously doubt that their Enochian practices resembled Crowley's work in the slightest."

Since they were/are in the British Library, he could have had access to them, and used what he wanted as he wanted. At this point, I believe they are scanned online.

http://www.themagickalreview.org/enochian/

M
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#55871 - 06/15/11 01:56 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
William Wright Offline
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Dr. Aquino, when Tasman mentioned that he was interested in advanced workings and asked where to look to examine necromancy, you replied, “Trust me, you aren’t” and “be glad I’m not telling you.” Your response struck me as paternalistic and condescending. It reminded me of the story of Adam and Eve, when God punished them because they ate of the forbidden fruit and “their eyes were opened.”

I realize that there are times when information must be withheld from others. I’m just not convinced this is one of those times. The implication is that it is OK for you to examine advanced workings and necromancy; after all, you’re a trained professional. But dear young Tasman might use the information to bring harm to himself, others and perhaps even the 600 Club. The horror!

By the way, nobody needs to learn from the 600 Club how to dig up graves. All you need is a shovel.
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#55872 - 06/15/11 03:56 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: William Wright]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2573
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: William Wright
Dr. Aquino, when Tasman mentioned that he was interested in advanced workings and asked where to look to examine necromancy, you replied, “Trust me, you aren’t” and “be glad I’m not telling you.” Your response struck me as paternalistic and condescending. It reminded me of the story of Adam and Eve, when God punished them because they ate of the forbidden fruit and “their eyes were opened.”

I realize that there are times when information must be withheld from others. I’m just not convinced this is one of those times. The implication is that it is OK for you to examine advanced workings and necromancy; after all, you’re a trained professional. But dear young Tasman might use the information to bring harm to himself, others and perhaps even the 600 Club. The horror!

By the way, nobody needs to learn from the 600 Club how to dig up graves. All you need is a shovel.

You are perfectly welcome to learn this lesson the hard way too, but again not with my recommendation, encouragement, or assistance.
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#55881 - 06/15/11 09:14 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: Morgan]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
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Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
Since they were/are in the British Library, he could have had access to them, and used what he wanted as he wanted. At this point, I believe they are scanned online.


I do not mean that Crowley's methodology was completely blind; books such as "A True & Faithful Relation" had been available for quite some time, and even before him, Golden Dawn initiates had devoted much research and practice incorporating the calls and glyphs glimpsed from Dee's sourcework.

What I meant was that Crowley and most others who fancy themselves "Enochian Magicians" only culled words and images that were imposed onto their own unrelated system of magic. In this sense, the finished product bore little resemblance to the steps actually taken by Dee and Kelley, as outlined in thorough detail via "Mysteriorum Libri Quinque".

For instance, Crowley used invocations of the Aethyrs with a few symbols like the famous Sigillum Aemeth, but the rituals themselves were more or less identical to the Great Beast's usual trademark hodgepodge of Qabalah and psuedo-goetia. An analysis of Dee/Kelley's methodology was enormously different, being a largely experimental sequence of revelation and prayer involving little ceremonialism.

But following the historic sequences to the letter, as some modern "Traditionalist" practitioners have done, is not much more valuable. Overall, it is my opinion that "Enochian Magic" is mostly redundant, since Dee's workings were primarily personal experiments, never intended to be "grimoires" or followed by other people (Heptarchia excluded). Obeying the steps of "Mysteriorum" to the letter is only an exercise in hollow mimicry; without the "divine inspiration" that prompted Dee, one merely acts out an archaic role-playing game.

On the other hand, I see little problem with using the Keys and such for utilitarian ends, as LaVey and the Chaos Magicians did, provided that one admits to taking the material out of context.


Edited by The Zebu (06/15/11 09:18 PM)
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#55935 - 06/16/11 06:59 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: The Zebu]
Zophos Offline
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Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 115
Loc: U.S.A.
Dialectical:

 Quote:
I'm also aware of what you were doing. 1) I'm perceptive

As your few posts here thus far have contained nothing but New Age silliness, totalitarian drivel, and lamentation for the sale of something you don't believe exists, I remain highly skeptical.


 Quote:
Zophos, are you a strict materialist or do you believe that some rituals work and there are no developed models or theories to explain why? If the latter is true, I'm curious to what you find is "real magic."

For the purposes of this discussion, call me an evidentialist. If anyone can show beyond reasonable doubt that ritual magic is capable of producing effects which are (a) consistently similar to the magician's goals and (b) unexplainable without recourse to means which are not known to existing science, I will be the first to acknowledge it. Examples have not been forthcoming.

As to what in my view is "real magic," I will avoid redundancy by explaining and instead ask that you find and read The Zebu's posts on the subject. With very few exceptions, his expressed views and my held ones are strikingly similar, despite our independence in arriving at them.



The Zebu:

 Quote:
Yeah, reminds me of some of my more recent rants about the ONA's (mis)use of Latin.

I found those quite amusing.


 Quote:
Classical tongues are REAL LANGUAGES, not Enochian gobbledygook that means whatever you want it to. (*Waits to be assaulted by Dee fanboys insisting on the linguistic integrity of Enochian).

Alas, another ignorant soul. It is a widely-believed fact that the Enochian language contains a consistent grammar and syntax. Even Israel Regardie said so. Check your facts before showing us that you don't belong among the ranks of true wizards, man.


 Quote:
I'm just glad that somebody else is as anal about it as I am.

For what it's worth, count me a perpetual ally in the debunking of historical and linguistic bravado. The profound core of occultism is encased in more than enough delusion and rubbish without their unchallenged presence here.


 Quote:
Dee was undoubtedly familiar with necromancy and possessed numerous books and grimoires on the subject. But whether or not Dee actually practiced it or not, seems unlikely, as the man had a lofty, sanctimonious view of magic, always sure to follow the angel's instructions that he didn't dare use "evil arts". Overtly necromantic books that have been ascribed to him, such as the Libellus Veneri Nigro Sacer, are arguably psuedonymous.

Well said. All primary historical sources indicate without exception that John Dee was a pious and practicing Christian. While it is not impossible that a necromantic experiment might have taken place at some time in his life, there is neither positive nor circumstantial evidence to support this.

Since our responses were to the claim by Dr. Aquino that Dee and Kelley did practice necromancy, a word or two on that also seems in order. See below.


 Quote:
Kelly, on the other hand, may have, believably, practiced the dark arts, not being restrained by the piety of his one-time associate.

Whatever Kelley's level of honesty in his interactions with Dee, it bears mentioning that despite recent scholarship, much of Kelley's popular image today is colored by a long accretion of myth, speculation, fabrication, and questionable inference. At least some of the pedigree for the linkage of Kelley to necromancy, however, can be traced with good accuracy. I will mention only two important sources.

The first is Ebenezer Sibly's Astrology, A New and Complete Illustration of the Occult Sciences, an 1806 redaction of two earlier books, The Celestial Science of Astrology (1776) and the four-volume New and Complete Illustration of the Occult Sciences (1784). Sibly here recounts the tale of Edward Kelley's necromantic ritual with Paul Waring, allegedly performed with a corpse disinterred from a Lancashire graveyard. Perhaps even more well-known than this account itself is the plate that accompanies it, which in addition to being posted and seen on the Internet with no supporting context (thus spawning the false belief that John Dee is one of the men portrayed), also sustained the legend's tacit acceptance and continued proliferation, most famously (prior to the Internet) through A. E. Waite's Book of Ceremonial Magic, which even has the plate as its frontispiece.



The second and more significant is the source on which both Sibly's and Waite's accounts are based: Antient Funeral Monuments (1631) by John Weever, an early modern antiquarian. Given that Kelley died in 1597, Weever's book stands among the earliest sources which depict Kelley as a necromancer, and may in fact be the first. Whatever the case, it should be stressed that, as with many stories of famous alchemists (Roger Bacon, Albertus Magnus, etc.) and individuals falsely believed to be alchemists (Thomas Aquinas, Nicolas Flamel, etc.), the Kelley-Waring story may nevertheless be a simple aggregation of hearsay, folk belief, and/or bad press. If there is anything to Weever's account beyond this, positive evidence of its basis is highly unlikely to emerge. Still, it may be possible to use Funeral Monuments as a starting point for further historical investigation. An earlier source may well exist.

In sum, then, there appears to be no well-grounded reason to believe that John Dee and Edward Kelley were "extensively involved in necromancy" at any time, leastwise together. At best there is a dubious report that one of them practiced necromancy on a single occasion, but given the date of its authorship and the prevalence of similar accounts (more specifically, their frequent falsehood) throughout the Middle Ages and early modern period, only a smoking gun would be sufficient to verify it. Dr. Aquino is welcome to counter my conclusion if he wishes, but such evidence as I have seen and currently know of (including unpublished manuscripts) only reinforces my strong doubt that necromancy ever figured into the life of Dee or Kelley.

(I would be remiss, however, to leave a good story deflated without offering something to intrigue and delight: John Dee may not have been a necromancer, but he almost became Emperor of Canada!)


 Quote:
In any case, I seriously doubt that their Enochian practices resembled Crowley's work in the slightest.

Both Dee's manuscripts and reliable secondary literature agree.

John Dee's Natural Philosophy: Between Science and Religion

John Dee: Interdisciplinary Studies in English Renaissance Thought

As you noted, Crowley's version of the Enochian system is completely rooted in that used by the Golden Dawn. What few modifications he made were his own, and not based in John Dee's own methods.



Morgan:

 Quote:
Dee and Kelly worked at the whim of British royalty. I doubt they would admit publicly to any types of working that could get them locked up.

The fact that the manuscripts of Dee's scrying sessions were never intended for circulation, and moreover were hidden away even from the other (sometimes quite sinister) contents of his own library, is highly beneficial in this regard, since it is thus more probable that the world picture they provide reflects Dee's actual beliefs rather than lip service and smokescreens. A few modern occultists have bent over backwards to show that Dee's system was in some way fundamentally distinct from Christianity, whether as part of a separate tradition or as a unique revelation from some other source, but no such claim has been substantiated with even minimal evidence.


Z.
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Nihil sit tam infirmum aut instabile quam fama potentiae non sua vi nita.

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#55939 - 06/16/11 08:01 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: Zophos]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1646
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
Alas, another ignorant soul. It is a widely-believed fact that the Enochian language contains a consistent grammar and syntax. Even Israel Regardie said so. Check your facts before showing us that you don't belong among the ranks of true wizards, man.


*grumbles*... Yeah, what I basically meant is that Enochian is nowhere near as complex as Latin. It is easy for a Chaos Magician to cut and paste around the Calls to form his own barbaric-sounding invocations, but other languages are not so forgiving for the mix-n-match occultist (as our recent guest from South Africa most surely attests).

 Quote:
Perhaps even more well-known than this account itself is the plate that accompanies it, which in addition to being posted and seen on the Internet with no supporting context (thus spawning the false belief that John Dee is one of the men portrayed)


I remember reading somewhere about the illustration being erroneously described as depicting Dee, but could not remember the source. Thanks for the reminder, and for picking up the slack on my academic sloth.

 Quote:
A few modern occultists have bent over backwards to show that Dee's system was in some way fundamentally distinct from Christianity, whether as part of a separate tradition or as a unique revelation from some other source, but no such claim has been substantiated with even minimal evidence.


While Tyson and others have pointed out that some of the mystical revelations from the Angels were not consistent to mainstream Protestantism, the Enochian workings are absolutely drenched in Christian eschatology so as to make the two inseparable. Ironically, I think this is why the Keys have become so popular, because they appeal to that sort of "apocalyptic mania" that Christianity has given to our cultural consciousness.


Edited by The Zebu (06/16/11 08:06 PM)
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#55982 - 06/17/11 07:53 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: The Zebu]
Zophos Offline
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Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 115
Loc: U.S.A.
The Zebu:

 Quote:
*grumbles*... Yeah, what I basically meant is that Enochian is nowhere near as complex as Latin, bearing more grammatical resemblance to English than to the typical romance language.

Please forgive my satire of the pompous Soter Kosmou and Arch-Magus of All Æons™, but occult humor is only funny when both parties really get it. I'll buy you a drink sometime for being a good sport.


 Quote:
Thanks for the reminder, and for picking up the slack on my academic sloth.

Happy to oblige on the first, and awaiting more of your own obscure gems on the second. Let me know should you ever find the source that debunks the misidentification of Paul Waring in the Sibly engraving; it would be a useful reference. For my part, I'll try to find the book or article that elaborates on Dee's near-lordship of Canada.

Two tangential notes:

(1.) Richard Kieckhefer published a book some years ago entitled Forbidden Rites: A Necromancer's Manual of the Fifteenth Century. Despite its enthusiastic reception by occultists with a penchant for the "dark side," this book is noteworthy (along with his other book, Magic in the Middle Ages) for its demonstration that the term "necromancy" very often did not mean in the Middle Ages what it means now. Have you by chance read either of these?

(2.) Given your interest in the occult, you may wish to consider joining Societas Magica, an academic organization developed for and by historians and scholars of magic. Full membership, which costs $35 annually, grants you an excellent quarterly newsletter and the Society's official journal, Magic, Ritual, and Witchcraft. The quality and breadth of their published output are excellent, and membership can be canceled simply by ceasing dues payments. Take a look, if you haven't.


 Quote:
While Tyson and others have pointed out that some of the mystical revelations from the Angels were not consistent to mainstream Protestantism, the Enochian workings are absolutely drenched in Christian eschatology so as to make the two inseparable.

Agreed. The development of novel interpretations of apocalyptic literature has never gone out of style, and I very much doubt that it every well. Courtesy of Dee, Nostradamus, Blake, Yeats, Crowley, and others, compounded by the aforementioned popular appeal of apocalyptic images and beliefs, it has become a fashionable badge of attainment among occultists to "prove" their claims by appeal to the emergence of a new world from the ashes of the previous one.

Unfortunately, if any of them are to be believed, the Secret Chiefs must be malevolent in nature, since they seem determined to replace the superstitions of bygone ages with new ones that are as or even more absurd.


Z.
_________________________
Nihil sit tam infirmum aut instabile quam fama potentiae non sua vi nita.

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#55983 - 06/17/11 08:32 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: Zophos]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2573
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Zophos
Alas, another ignorant soul. It is a widely-believed fact that the Enochian language contains a consistent grammar and syntax. Even Israel Regardie said so. Check your facts before showing us that you don't belong among the ranks of true wizards, man.

Um, no. It's just a jargon. I was curious about Francis' [Regardie] comment, so asked him about it during one of my visits to him at his Hollywood home. He acknowledged that he had no independent or expert basis for the "grammar/syntax" comment, but had just echoed it from A.C., who obviously recognized it as a jargon and used it as such, and represented it as more than that just to impress others.

The most strenuous effort I've come across to substantiate Enochian as a language [and I haven't really looked more recently] is this:

 Originally Posted By: Temple of Set Reading List
11F. The Complete Enochian Dictionary by Donald C. Laycock. London: Askin Publishers, 1978. (TOS-4) MA: “In addition to containing a comprehensive English-Enochian and Enochian-English dictionary, this volume includes a scholarly history and analysis of Dee’s Enochian system and Laycock’s edited version of the Keys from Dee’s original manuscript. Comparison of Laycock’s version with the Temple of Set’s microfilm copies of the original Dee diaries, however, reveals that Laycock arbitrarily subdivided parts of the Enochian text and added English-based punctuation. [Setian Gregory Anderson notes the existence of an Enochian dictionary entitled GMICALZOMA! by Leo Vincy, available through some British outlets. ‘Leo Vincey’ - a hero in Haggard’s She novels - was a pseudonym occasionally employed by Aleister Crowley, who included some Enochian-jargon incantations in an edition of The Gœtia.] Until the appearance of #11H, the only verbatim printed copy of the original Dee Keys readily available to Setians was/is in ‘The Book of Coming Forth by Night: Analysis & Commentary’ together with the Word of Set translation.”

A good example of a jargon is the "Yuggothic language" that I invented for the "Ceremony of the Nine Angles" & "Call to Cthulhu" in the Satanic Rituals. Basically you invent all the nouns and verbs you need, then use them consistently with invented cases & conjugations for polish. The same with adjectives, adverbs, etc. It's easy and fun [I accented Yuggothic with hidden allusions & puns]. Once I worked it up for the C9A, and Anton wanted an additional "sea"-working as well, it was a simple matter to Yuggoth one up. ;\)

Another similar Enochian leg-pull, and a very clever one, was done by David Langford in this book:

 Originally Posted By: Temple of Set Reading List
7D. The Necronomicon by George Hay (Ed.). London: Neville Spearman, 1978. (TOS-3) MA: “The fame of HPL’s fictional Necronomicon inevitably inspired other authors to produce books purporting to actually be that terrible tome. Some are good-humored tributes; some appear to be deliberately fraudulent. This Hay version, which is both a collection of commentaries and a ‘translation’ of the Necronomicon, is both the most entertaining and the most scholarly of the good-humored types. Included are essays by Colin Wilson (#4A, #7E, etc.) and David Langford (#21D), with ‘translation’ by Robert Turner [from the ‘John Dee Edition’ - which was invented by Frank Belknap Long for one of his Cthulhu-mythos stories!].”

David put Enochian through a [fake/simulated] computer analysis, somewhat the way we work on codes at NSA, etc.; and gradually, and of course to his delicious horror, the Necronomicon began to emerge in all of its loathsome awfulness. Some choice excerpts were duly included in the book.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#55984 - 06/17/11 10:13 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Zophos Offline
member


Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 115
Loc: U.S.A.
Michael A.Aquino:

 Quote:
Um, no. It's just a jargon.

Apparently my sarcasm wasn't as obvious to everyone else as it was to me. I was sure that the context, pompous tone, blind appeal to authority, and use of terms like "man," "true wizards," "ignorant soul," and "widely-believed fact" would be dead giveaways. (Granted, longtime exposure to the legions of occultists who actually write like that does tend to sharpen one's reflex to thwart and annihilate them.)

Even still, I did explicitly note in my last post that I was being satirical. A mirthful chap like you, of all people, should recognize a timely spot of humor!


Z.
_________________________
Nihil sit tam infirmum aut instabile quam fama potentiae non sua vi nita.

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#55986 - 06/17/11 11:34 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: Morgan]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2573
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
Dee and Kelly worked at the whim of British royalty. I doubt they would admit publicly to any types of working that could get them locked up. My memory fails me, but they had to be involved in "things" before they got involved with the Enochian otherwise a sane unexposed man would think himself mad.

Dee was a polished and professional international spy for Queen Elizabeth I, as is discussed in some detail in:

 Originally Posted By: Temple of Set Reading List
11A. John Dee by Richard Deacon. London: Frederick Muller Ltd, 1967. (TOS-3) MA: “While other biographical studies of Dee have been written, none compares with this one for insight, clarity, and readability. An excellent introductory work. The author is particularly sensitive to Dee’s linguistic skills and contributes many helpful research recommendations of his own.”

When I was spending some time on this subject matter, I sent a photocopy of the original Dee manuscripts to a cryptogeek friend of mine at NSA. These guys pick their teeth breaking codes, and I was curious to know whether Dee might have used Enochian as a cover for coded intelligence messages back to HM. He played around with it for awhile, but didn't find anything that jumped out at him. He mentioned that in Elizabethan days English was used significantly differently than today, so that might have thrown the NSA computers off; also, of course, a particular Enochian term or its placement or repetition in a text or document might simply stand for a prearranged intelligence confirmation by itself, without any sentence-structure being necessary. [For instance, if the name "Madimi" is mentioned twice on page #4, it means the King of Poland has the flu, etc.]

 Originally Posted By: Morgan
Since they were/are in the British Library, he could have had access to them, and used what he wanted as he wanted. At this point, I believe they are scanned online.

The most exhaustive literary attack on Dees's Enochian gig that I have encountered to date is this:

 Originally Posted By: Temple of Set Reading List
11H. The Enochian Evocation of Dr. John Dee by Geoffrey James (Ed./Trans.). Gillette, NJ: Heptangle Books, 1984. (TOS-4) MA: “At long last - The original Dee diary Keys assembled with a large selection of Dee’s related spells, all carefully footnoted and annotated to the original Sloane, Cotton, Bodeleian, Ashmolean, etc. documents. James is familiar with and critiques as appropriate the various approaches in such works as #11B/D/F. Since this is a book consisting solely of annotated magical text, it will not be readily intelligible to readers who have not obtained a biographical and exoteric understanding of Dee through other sources. A top-quality clothbound volume, well worth the $40 pricetag for serious students of Dee.”
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#56001 - 06/18/11 12:42 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: Zophos]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1646
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
Have you by chance read either of these?


I've read those works on the Munich Manual, but never got a chance to check out "Magic in the Middle Ages". I think I remember seeing it at the Uni's library, so I'll take a look the next time I'm down there.

Academically speaking, "necromancy" deals with the dead, but from my perspective, demons and other chthonic beings are closely associated with death and to spirits of the dead, so "nigromancy" and "necromancy" are closely intertwined-- therefore, it is no great error to use the two terms interchangeably.

I have recently become enchanted with Jake-Stratton-Kent's work on Goetia such as Geosophia and his edition of The True Grimoire. There's been a lot of writings coming out exploring the concurrences of grimoire magic with Afro-Carribean cults, which gives one lots of ideas of how to practice Goetia as a vibrant devotional tradition, as opposed to stumbling around dusty scribblings about exorcizing cows and curing measles.

Sometimes I have the mind to simply dismiss systematic esotericism altogether-- with its profaned mysteries, stale correspondences, and obsession with transcendence-- and just devote my entire practice to the wholesale worship of Death. The book club idea doesn't sound so bad either.
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#56030 - 06/18/11 07:37 PM Re: Necromancy [Re: The Zebu]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Welcome to the club The Zebu, I get confounded by abstraction and complexity, let alone the amount of book reading suggested around here. I do try to catch up on some different areas, but end up reading the few I have at home over again for some reason.

The I feel essence of death worship lies in the affirmation of death, not a worship of an afterlife as in the Christian death worship. The presence of death all around and the emergence of decay and dissolution in society, our lives, values, morality etc. is not as important as sobering affirmations of mortality.

To have experienced near death experiences, to have affirmed the endlessness of the dark alpha omega. I have unorthodox Gnostic beliefs. In a simple way, the worship of death for me is the affirmation of death, and as consequence, immediacy to live and direct the will by cerebrations of the black flame that knows not the lie of the creation, opposing the imposed rules of existence set by a foolish demiurge which is only the phenomenal form of it's idea, the hylic world by which this individual perceives. In a simple way, to laugh at the world in a certain way.

I am collecting a lore if you will, affirmations of death (universal heat death, ego death, la petite mort, or just garden variety macabrism), entropy, nihilism, near death experience, the Thanatos (death drive), but most of all to embrace fatalism and "The Way of Dying" and the Hagakure etc. The list goes on.

Now I don't profess any credentials or anything of the sort about philosophy but I do love to contemplate in my own way and spew my own or unbeknownst to me, quite possibly, rehashed ideas. Hegesias of Cyrene flipped "an unexamined life is not worth living" a Socratic maxim, on it's head, with, "For the fool life is advantageous; for the wise it is indifferent." Leaving aphoristic contemplations that life is worth living only if you are not yet affirmed to be wise. Possibly meaning that to affirm a fully examined life one has therefore lost interest in life, hence, all rationality points toward death being no more less desirable than life. Yet only if one is a victim of his own beliefs in assuming a fully examined life by affirming he is "all wise" or whatever. Only those who know they are fools will value further wisdom and therefore life. A possible conclusion of both philosophers. This is where active (positive) nihilism comes in handy. Why? I have and will explain more in other areas on this forum. I just think Hegesias is seriously funny unintentionally as he's misrepresented as a negative philosopher with all those people killing themselves being unable to hack his hardcore shit back in the day, maybe their Jungian Shadow's were impossible to look at? I can make positive life affirmations and perceive the blackest irony from the most abysmal epiphanies. Why? I'm all about Shadow Work.

"I love those who do not know how to live, except by going under, for they are those who cross over."— Nietzsche

Those of us who live in darkness are most effected by the light, the experience of the change is profound. A glimmer of light bears value where there was none before. We overcome the beliefs of the ego to emerge the superanthrope. At the darkest night of the soul, only that of it's own luminescence, shines.— Hegesias
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