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#44792 - 12/09/10 04:07 PM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: Jake999]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
Balance... everything in balance.

I swear on my virginity this is a true story: I did have a friend in Santa Barbara who took me up on the "bobcat with a knife" challenge, and finally treed one in the forest near Lake Cachuma. Went up the tree after it with his Bowie knife. I visited him in the hospital ; the bobcat escaped untouched.

On reflection I should have nominated him for a Darwin Award. Well, if Nemesis wants to take me up on the wolverine, I can always nominate him.
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Michael A. Aquino

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#44794 - 12/09/10 04:38 PM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
Well, if Nemesis wants to take me up on the wolverine I can always nominate him.


Uh... wrong gender doc... waaaaaaaaaaaay wrong gender.
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#44795 - 12/09/10 05:09 PM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
If you choose not to eat commercially farmed meat on ethical grounds, I can understand that. But to cut meat out of your diet entirely, when instead you could be buying it from local, humane farmers, is short-sighted.

Your not eating meat isn't putting a single dent into the million dollar defenses of factory farms. Their strengths are lower prices by which to sell their meat, and wider availability (distributed by Walmart and Sam's Club instead of Whole Foods). Instead, empower the livestock farmers who treat their animals right, who allow their poultry to peck and shit and eat bugs in the yard, who allow their cows and goats to fertilize their fields. The more business you give them, the more they can lower their prices and make their grass-fed meats available to more people.

That is what will do the most damage to factory farms.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/nature-community/the-truth-about-vegetarianism.aspx
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Nothing is sacred.

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#44797 - 12/09/10 05:21 PM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Autodidact Offline
member


Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 428
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
 Originally Posted By: Nemesis

Sorry, but the standard "vegetarian" excuse for not including meat in your diet has become obsolete.

No, it hasn't actually.


Sorry, Doc, but that URL supports Nemesis's argument, and doesn't actually build a case for vegetarianism.

(Well, it doesn't build a case stronger than "some people are mean to animals, so you shouldn't eat them.")
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An nescis, mi fili, quantilla prudentia mundus regatur?

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#44798 - 12/09/10 06:09 PM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: Jake999]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
Uh... wrong gender doc... waaaaaaaaaaaay wrong gender.

"Way" wrong gender? I thot there were just two. Well, particularly living in SF in 2010, I guess that's obsolete!

Anyway, never judge a 600Cer by icon, I guess. Although if everyone here did look like his/her/its icon, it would be a more, um, remarkable community.

Where animals are concerned, I don't consider that they have any less right to their lives than humans do, and I simply don't want to harm them if I can avoid it. [There is some frank personal hypocrisy here, because I still eat fish & fowl. I will rescue a spider in the house, but if a wasp gets in, I reach for the Raid.]

At the culture/country level the entire issue of ?ivorism becomes unresolvable. Adolf Hitler was an adamant vegetarian. He could get Germany to do just about anything except forget Wienerschnitzel and sausages.

So I'll back away from this thread, with just one malicious parting shot. [Go down and click on all the "Next"s.]
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Michael A. Aquino

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#44801 - 12/09/10 07:56 PM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
 Quote:
Anyway, never judge a 600Cer by icon, I guess. Although if everyone here did look like his/her/its icon, it would be a more, um, remarkable community.

I just got such a kick out of seeing 'Event Horizon' one night...paired with my avatar is a quote from the movie.

I've often been mistaken for a male. Actually went for months when I first joined the site without anyone realizing it. I take no offense!

As for the whole animal welfare vs meat-eating....I enjoy meat, and yet I have spent quite a bit of money on my budgies. Earlier this year, one had a prolapse, and even after surgery she didn't make it. I was gutted. Then most recently, one of my hens got her leg mangled in a fight--she has to wear a home-made ecollar so she can't chew on it (which hopefully will be removed after the vet check-up tomorrow). Another budgie was egg-bound and had to have the egg drained and removed, as it was adhered to the mucosa in her oviduct. If you've ever tried to give a small bird oral antibiotics from an insulin syringe, it's an experience. Same with my cats, and dogs. No one could say that I don't care very much about animals, but for me there is a difference between pet animals and food animals. That's why I don't see any hypocrisy in both caring for them and eating them. However, I do advocate humane farming and buying your meat from those kinds of farms. Just because I enjoy steak and chicken does not mean that I wanted that animal to have their beaks cauterized, and having lived their lives in cramped, unsanitary conditions.

As for Hitler being a vegetarian...not sure if he is the greatest advocate to have for your WOE? He did bake a lot of Jews....I guess one couldn't say he was vegan.

I've flipped through the 'recipes' in that book before...makes me more glad than ever that I was born in the '80s!
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Nothing is sacred.

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#44807 - 12/10/10 01:09 AM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: Nemesis]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
I just got such a kick out of seeing 'Event Horizon' one night...paired with my avatar is a quote from the movie.

I on the other hand look exactly like my avatar. The human facade is just for convenience on this strange planet of bloated and squishy carbon composites.

 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
As for the whole animal welfare vs meat-eating....I enjoy meat, and yet I have spent quite a bit of money on my budgies. Earlier this year, one had a prolapse, and even after surgery she didn't make it. I was gutted. Then most recently, one of my hens got her leg mangled in a fight--she has to wear a home-made ecollar so she can't chew on it (which hopefully will be removed after the vet check-up tomorrow). Another budgie was egg-bound and had to have the egg drained and removed, as it was adhered to the mucosa in her oviduct. If you've ever tried to give a small bird oral antibiotics from an insulin syringe, it's an experience.

Lilith has spent a long time as a volunteer at an injured bird rescue/sanctuary, and stopped eating chicken after the chickens there started snuggling with and cooing to her. Her best story concerns a vulture not able to be released. They assumed he was lonely, so found a lady vulture. He had apparently not seen one since his mom, and was terrified of this strange thing in his cage. They concluded he thinks he's a human, since he's sociable around people.

 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
Same with my cats, and dogs. No one could say that I don't care very much about animals, but for me there is a difference between pet animals and food animals. That's why I don't see any hypocrisy in both caring for them and eating them. However, I do advocate humane farming and buying your meat from those kinds of farms. Just because I enjoy steak and chicken does not mean that I wanted that animal to have their beaks cauterized, and having lived their lives in cramped, unsanitary conditions.

10-4. Any improvement is better than no improvement.

 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
As for Hitler being a vegetarian...not sure if he is the greatest advocate to have for your WOE?

 Originally Posted By: Medicine in National Socialism
Do you know that your Führer is a vegetarian, and that he does not eat meat because of his general attitude toward life and his love for the world of animals? Do you know that your Führer is an exemplary friend of animals, and even as a chancellor, he is not separated from the animals he has kept for years?...The Führer is an ardent opponent of any torture of animals, in particular vivisection, and has declared to terminate those conditions...thus fulfilling his role as the savior of animals, from continuous and nameless torments and pain.



 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
I've flipped through the 'recipes' in that book before...makes me more glad than ever that I was born in the '80s!

More glad than you can ever imagine. I was a child in the 1950s, and my mom loved to experiment [on me] with creative gelatin horrors.
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Michael A. Aquino

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#44809 - 12/10/10 02:53 AM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Dutch Satanist Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/19/10
Posts: 69
Loc: Delft, The Netherlands
Wow, I go away for a little while, and this thread explodes into activity. \:\)

So, Insects. Yeah, I could see myself eating insects if my grocer decided to sell them. There's probably some yummy recipes to be found somewhere on this vast Internet. But would that discourage me from eating meat? Not really.

I grew up with meat. My dad was a butcher who worked at the local abattoir. So, I have absolutely no qualms about eating meat. Nor do I have any qualms about killing for food. I have butchered chickens (an interesting experience when done for the first time). I have slaughtered pigs. When it enters the abattoir, it turns into food for all I care.

Here in the Netherlands, livestock gets dispatched in a very efficient and suffering-free fashion. A metal rod gets shot in the brain of the animal and it dies instantly. So there's no suffering at all, it happens way too quick. I find this way of dispatching more humane than ritual slaughtering (also called "halal" or "kosher"), where the animal is killed by severing the jugular artery and gets thrown in this fight for it's life which it will eventually lose. And it's just messy.

What this "upbringing" did result in is that I do prefer quality meats. I can spot a lousy cut of beef from a mile away and will refuse to eat that. On the other hand, if I spot a quality cut, I'm all over it. In my experience, the best meat comes from animals that are well treated.

Oh, organic meat is not always the best. I have seen several organic cuts that did not meet my standard of quality. I basically don't care so much about where my meat comes from, as long as it has sufficient quality.
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#44814 - 12/10/10 11:15 AM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: Dutch Satanist]
Diavolo Moderator Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
If god didn't want us to eat animals; he'd made them bulletproof.

To me animals are food. I personally don't care if someone holds their hoof when killed or not. If the meat is tasty, I'm all for it. I'd eat insects to survive but I'd also wipe my ass with leaves when needed. Still, I'm damn glad they invented toilet-paper.

D.

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#44851 - 12/11/10 04:28 PM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: Diavolo]
Diavolo Moderator Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
What's funny about food preferences is that many like to point out that, since we're humans, we have seem to have some moral obligation to treat our food in a certain manner. When I look at nature, it seems none else is bothered about it. Predators suffocate their prey, rip it apart or eat it alive but when we process our meat through meat-factories it apparently is inhumane. I wonder what is a human way to kill food. After all, we excel in our techniques of killing.

I'm not bothered about people preferring to eat vegetables only or put insects on their menu. Hell, in the past I met a breatharian here. I didn't hear from him in years so I assume he did stick to his diet. Eat what you like but don't try to make me feel guilty for liking Bambi on my menu.

D.

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#44870 - 12/12/10 04:27 AM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: Diavolo]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Humans are probably tasty... if we take your points... we should be A-okay......

We are Meat. Mmmmm. I can't fucking wait for a human steak!

So delicious... and so easy to kill, really... it's not hard... you can just walk up to them.... you can do it with any blunt object! They'd never expect it! Then... FOOD!.... How easy is that?!?!
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#44871 - 12/12/10 04:30 AM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: daevid777]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
sorry Diavolo, not meant for you... but this femur tastes awesome...
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Where we're going, we don't need roads.

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#44872 - 12/12/10 04:31 AM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: daevid777]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Humans aren't bulletproof either...
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#44873 - 12/12/10 04:34 AM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: daevid777]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
I still feel bad shooting a carrot... but that's another story....
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Where we're going, we don't need roads.

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#44876 - 12/12/10 07:32 AM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: daevid777]
JysusCryst Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/23/09
Posts: 21
Loc: Iraq
From a very young age (about 13 or so) I got the brilliant idea that once I die, I want my body to be donated to cannibals. Save, of course, for all the parts that can be transplanted and used to save someone else's life. I won't be using them anymore, so they can have them.

As far as the vegetarianism deal, I LOVE eating meat. Whatever kind of meat it is. Do I care how the animal died? Not really. Would I prefer a 'humane' death to one such as kosher or halal? Of course, but the animal already is dead, why not use it?

As far as giving my money to those companies and other such places that kill food in an 'inhumane' way...well, I'm in Iraq now, so I eat whatever is at the chow hall. Back stateside, I eat a lot of Tyson's chicken.

Does a little research

It's definitely not the most humane place to get food. I don't think I'm going to stop eating it though. It's cheap, and taste good, even if it's not the most healthy or nice about killing.
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