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#45887 - 01/03/11 04:19 PM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: Knievel74]
Dutch Satanist Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/19/10
Posts: 69
Loc: Delft, The Netherlands
Trust me, you do not want to eat humans. At least, not if you can help it. Human flesh is filled with all sorts of pathogens (prions, viruses, bacteria, etc.) that you as a human are susceptible to that your immune system hasn't encountered yet.

On another note, there used to be a soy-based alternative that was supposed to have the same texture and taste as human flesh called Hufu, but some research has pointed out that such a thing was fictional. Still, an interesting concept if you are an antrhopologist that is studying cannibalism.

On a more lighthearted note, there used to be a hoax site called manbeef.com, but that doesn't exist anymore. I found it archived on archive.org though, here:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010331032727/www.manbeef.com/home.html (it's slow loading though, give it time)
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#45967 - 01/06/11 05:05 AM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: Dutch Satanist]
Mindmaster Offline
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Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 68
Loc: Detroit, MI
Honestly, my take on the issue is simple:

1) How does the food make you feel after eating it.

2) Hereditary health concerns (in my case, diabetes, cancer, cardiovascular issues, etc.)

I'm not a militant vegetarian or whatever but I like animals both on a plate and as pets. Currently, as a result of my red meat lard-ass american diet I don't really feel too hot so I am pondering altering my menu choices in the near future to stem off the myriad of ailments that certainly my current diet isn't assisting me in.

Too much soft drink, too much red meat (really any... it all has loads of bad fat too it, I wouldn't be able to stop it unless I just quit it.. one bite I'd be back in like a crack addict).. etc...

Bottom line... all this heavy artery clogging jazz either stops here or in the operating room.. it's much easier to have a cheater steak a couple times a year (really how often you should be eatting it) So in many ways my only justification is health.. everything else is really a stupid reason anyway.

Now for some people I think that the hard core meat eating diet will not effect them poorly or whatever and you know what I'm cool with that. It's definitely working poorly for me however. There are some sacrifices I am not sure of yet.. meat is actually an easier decision than dairy products... soy replacement products aren't CHEAP, and you can't even argue that milking a cow harms the animal so yea I don't get vegan things either. The vegetarian spinach quiche is easy to eat and enjoyable so long as you bring the real cheese. Some of the subs are more bearable than others.... your mileage may very.

Most vegetarian food isn't bad, since honestly I've tried it before even while being full meat eating. Right now I'm about 50/50 but I'm looking to cut that to zero this year. In all cases really the diet that makes you feel the best is the right one your own body really is the best judge.


Edited by Mindmaster (01/06/11 05:05 AM)

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#45975 - 01/06/11 10:32 AM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: Mindmaster]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
It's not the meat that's making you fat, it's the 'vegetarian approved' junk carbohydrates that are putting on the chub. People whose diets comprise mostly of grains and sugars tend to be DING DING DING! FAT! Hence the obesity epidemic in the West. It has nothing to do with our meat consumption.

You have to eat fat to burn fat. Low-fat diets fail because all they do is put your body into starvation mode which in turn signals your body to retain every bit of fat it can, instead of burning it off as energy.
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#46009 - 01/06/11 05:48 PM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: Nemesis]
manofsteel Offline
member


Registered: 05/08/10
Posts: 153
Loc: Indiana U.S.
Finally somebody that makes some damn sense. People have been eating meat and will continue to eat meat for as long as we all live. It gives you energy which you can burn off and like Nemisis said if you don't eat fat you are doing nothing. Besides all that the shit tastes good! Beef, pork, chicken, all good and a staple in the U.S.
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#46029 - 01/06/11 11:18 PM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: manofsteel]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: manofsteel
Finally somebody that makes some damn sense. People have been eating meat and will continue to eat meat for as long as we all live. It gives you energy which you can burn off and like Nemisis said if you don't eat fat you are doing nothing. Besides all that the shit tastes good! Beef, pork, chicken, all good and a staple in the U.S.


Chicken is not as healthy as some would have you think. There are quite a few good articles out there about the fat content in chicken and what people have found in long term studies. If you have to eat bird, turkey is much better for you. Without the skin of course. Although, I swear, that's the BEST part. ;\)
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#46041 - 01/07/11 07:28 AM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: Nyte]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
The skin is perfectly fine to eat, as long as you don't have a plateful of it. A lot of it depends upon what diet the bird was fed. Hormones, antibiotics, etc, tend to be deposited in fat throughout the body, and skin is no exception. I would not recommend eating the skin of poultry that came from Walmart or Aldi.

You may not have to forgo the scrumptious skin either, suggests Lilian Cheung, editorial director of "The Nutrition Source" from Harvard's School of Public Health. "There is more monounsaturated fat than saturated fat in poultry skin. The skin adds calories, but there is more healthful fat in it than unhealthful fat."
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#46042 - 01/07/11 08:12 AM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: Nemesis]
Autodidact Offline
member


Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 428
 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
It's not the meat that's making you fat, it's the 'vegetarian approved' junk carbohydrates that are putting on the chub.


Verified - my sister and her kids eat nothing but low-fat stuff, and she ignores my explanations that low-fat == high sugar. It's right on the damn label. And they're all super-chunkified.

Her husband, OTOH, is overweight because he eats very healthy ... but puts away the weight-gain-pseudo-steroid-powder drinks like they were Big Gulps ...
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#46045 - 01/07/11 09:42 AM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: Nemesis]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
The skin is perfectly fine to eat, as long as you don't have a plateful of it. A lot of it depends upon what diet the bird was fed. Hormones, antibiotics, etc, tend to be deposited in fat throughout the body, and skin is no exception. I would not recommend eating the skin of poultry that came from Walmart or Aldi.

You may not have to forgo the scrumptious skin either, suggests Lilian Cheung, editorial director of "The Nutrition Source" from Harvard's School of Public Health. "There is more monounsaturated fat than saturated fat in poultry skin. The skin adds calories, but there is more healthful fat in it than unhealthful fat."



Hmm, that's good news. When we make turkey around here, my oldest son and I could fight over the skin. It's the tastiest part of the bird, or so it seems. Now, I can eat that guilty pleasure and not feel so bad about it. I'll keep it in moderation though. Thanks Nemesis.
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#46046 - 01/07/11 09:55 AM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: Autodidact]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: Autodidact
Verified - my sister and her kids eat nothing but low-fat stuff, and she ignores my explanations that low-fat == high sugar. It's right on the damn label. And they're all super-chunkified.

Her husband, OTOH, is overweight because he eats very healthy ... but puts away the weight-gain-pseudo-steroid-powder drinks like they were Big Gulps ...


All that processed crap is bad, on so many levels. A lot of what I have in my home now has to be used from week to week or it goes bad. When I do bake, it's from scratch and snacks aren't a daily occurance any more. Foods have become "quick easy fixes" and that doesn't mean it's good for ya, at all. Even the "healthy" foods aren't good, most of the time, unless it's a "whole" food.
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#46049 - 01/07/11 10:03 AM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: Autodidact]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Funny that you mention that stuff your sister feeds her kids...I made myself go into an Aldi the other day (a discount generic grocery store, for those not in the know) and saw a fat guy loading up his cart with Aldi's "Fit & Active" brand....I nearly guffawed out loud when I saw that he'd grabbed a box of Fit & Active gummy bears in snack packs. /facepalm

Shopping smarter just became eating smarter!
*Note: No one who shops at Aldi will ever look like the lady on this page.
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#46120 - 01/07/11 05:03 PM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: Nemesis]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
That Fit & Active crap is just that......CRAP! The preservatives are off the hook in that stuff. I would have died laughing seeing that guy's cart!

My mom use to swear by the Weight Watchers crap too. Yeah, at first anyone can lose some weight, but your body pays for it with all the preservatives it has to dump into your liver and kidneys. The really bad part is, some of those things never filter through. They stay and cause permanent damage. Ask me, I KNOW. I'm highly allergic to sweetners for this very reason. Mom would dump that shit down our throats because she thought it was "better" for us. Less calories, less fat, less this, less that....even less on being a real food source. Thanks MOM! Also, many, many times, the minute the person quits eating their product the weight comes right back and usually more. Not worth it in the long run. I finally had to tell her that if she tried one more time to get me or the boys to eat/try one of her "grain bars" I was going to slap her with it. I'm estatic we no longer have to deal with that anymore.

**Quick side note...Is that one of your birds in your avatar Nemesis?
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#46127 - 01/07/11 05:19 PM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: Nyte]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Hehe no, just a random picture of the angriest cockatiel I've ever seen. And found whilst searching for "Col. Hans Landa meme" no less!
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#46158 - 01/07/11 07:05 PM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: Nemesis]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
Hmm, wonder if the bird's name was Col. Hans? Tiels are great pets and that pic is too funny.

The regularly scheduled progam may now resume....
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#46180 - 01/07/11 08:55 PM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: Nyte]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
You should see my dad's tiel. Pure fucking evil. Twenty years old and would be happy to rip your nose off of your face. Meanwhile my sweet female tiel, Pepi, will cluck and snuggle with me any time.

Back on topic, I'm seeing more and more vegans and vegetarians recanting their previous anti-meat stances. Whether it's based on the actual environmental impact of raising livestock, or their deteriorating health on a diet excluding all forms of animal protein.

Prominent vegan advocate: I was wrong about veganism
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#46186 - 01/07/11 11:44 PM Re: Veganism; It could kill you. [Re: Nemesis]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
LOL Nemesis....I've encountered a few tiels like your dad's. But many more I've raised that are like your own little girl. I miss them in so many ways, but I'm now glad not to have to clean up after all the birds I use to have. I've learned to play with the babies at the pet stores and go home happy with that little bit of time spent at the store instead of a lot more at home.

Back to topic as well. Thank you for posting that link. I think I may actually purchase the book that caused George Monbiot to take a second look at his own stances on the subject of meats. From everything I've read through out the links and reviews, it might really have some interesting information in it.

I have raised steer for food (quite some time back) and because we raised them in an open field, mostly grass fed, they ended up being some of the leanest and best tasting beef I had ever had. Grandpa, who was not of blood relation but might as well have been, always said that feeding the cattle too much grain wasn't good for them. I guess there was something to the "old ways" of raising live stock. Now if we could just get the farming industry to listen, we might seriously get some where. I'm not banking on it though.

This book, just might confirm some of my own suspicions concerning our own food sources and what affect they REALLY do or don't have on the enviroment. Along with a few other theories I've had pass through my head a time or two. Or it could completely change my own thoughts. I do believe I'll have to give it a read. Thank you again.
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