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#44467 - 11/25/10 11:07 PM The HOW and not the WHAT.
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
member


Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
I have searched this whole site over and over again and this has popped up several times. Obviously, in most Satanic forums, there will always be that one person or several people that have something to say in the effects of "What is a Satanist?". In fact, it is also commonplace for this to be one of the first that make it onto a new forum. The idea that Satanism has to be defined so that all may read and say themselves "Oh yeah, I do that and that" and so on and so far.

However, did anyone (I'm sure that many here have) happen to stop to think that maybe it's not the "what" but the "how". How does Satanism play a role in your life? How do you use the common perspectives in your real life? These are the questions that I truly believe are more important than "what a Satanist" really is. Can anyone really say what a Satanist is? Of course, some will have to say yes to this question because they are limited enough of mind not to realize that as an individual we all live a Satanic life by our own means, not by others. The less closed minded Satanist will agree that while there are those qualities that are a must to take on the true label of Satanist; there are several means of going about it in one's personal life.

My personal take on it is there are certain people that do not fit the bill of a Satanist. For example, if you have to ask "what makes a Satanist a Satanist", then you are probably not the right cut for the outfit. I do believe that our perspective mature as we age through the journey of Satanism and that as a Satanist, I should never believe that I have ever reached my ending. As we grow older and obtain newer information for ourselves and learn things about ourselves our perspectives change but one fact will always remain, we have chosen for ourselves the LHP; Satanism.

I am also of the belief that the qualities of a Satanist are always there. They always have been but, like us, have to grow up too.

Bottom line is, if you have to ask the what, then you might never know that the true significance is more of the HOW.
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#44565 - 12/02/10 01:51 AM Re: The HOW and not the WHAT. [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



Thanks for this post. There are a few interesting issues here I wanted to comment on.

I do think that Satanism has a definition.

If Satanism did not have a definition then how would a Satanist identify him or herself as a Satanist?

Determining the meaning of Satanism is relevant for someone who is trying to figure out whether they are a Satanist or not, and trying to get a handle on things.

I think this question is also a useful one for those individuals who have already identified themselves as Satanist’s and are engaged in the deeper study of the principles and history of Satanism.

This study, which I would liken to Reverend James Sass’ notion of ‘Deep Satanism,’ is not an attempt to convince oneself that one is a wolf, when one is in fact a lamb, but rather is an attempt at very deep self – reflection and an appreciation of the way Satanism and magic determines perception and can function as a tool. It is a comprehensive work.

I do think that Satanism is primarily about forging ahead with the fullest measure of self confidence and self assurance. Obviously a concern about the how is essential, but I do think it is animated by the what. I don’t think you can consciously strive for real freedom and build your own unique universe or reality, with people more or less fixed where you want them to be and more or less doing what you want them to do, without possessing real skills in the how and a deep knowledge of the what.

(I am currently reading an interesting book called Seven Footprints to Satan by a guy named Abraham Merritt and I want to review it here soon. This is an interesting book with regards to the basic principles of the how. I think knowledge of the what and how it can be applied is demonstrated in this rather interesting book. One needs to be careful though, it is a touch dangerous)

Cheers

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#44569 - 12/02/10 10:16 AM Re: The HOW and not the WHAT. [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3114
Valid enough question.
How does Satanism play a role in my life? It doesn't unless the topic is being brought up. I simply live like I think my lfe should be lived.
Some of the personal traits I have can be called "Satanic" by different persons and according to a book written by a bald guy with a nice beard who lived in San Fransisco, had a pet lion and lived in a black house.

Perhaps the most easiest way to be a Satanist is just being and knowing yourself without shame.
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#44571 - 12/02/10 12:45 PM Re: The HOW and not the WHAT. [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2515
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
There are two dimensions here: the metaphysical and the physical.

How an individual views his existence metaphysically determines how he will view and conduct his physical/incarnate existence:

(1) If you consider your consciousness and existence immortal, and your incarnate lifetime merely "training wheels on a bicycle", you will use this time to apprehend and develop your unaided bicycle-riding skills.

(2) If you think that your physical existence is all there is, and when your body croaks your consciousness will vanish, then you will use this time for maximum pleasure.

In either #(1) or #(2) you have constant practical and ethical decisions to make, and a simple "selfishness" or "indulgence" approach (as many aspiring Satanists read the Satanic Bible) clearly doesn't suffice. [This is the general field of Lesser Black Magic & Ethics as discussed in some detail in Chapter #5 of Black Magic.]

Notwithstanding all of the above, it is characteristic of the Black Magician, the Satanist, to come out on top. This is not a philosophy for failures, quitters, cowards, or fools.

 Originally Posted By: J.P. Sarti (Ferrari F1 driver) in Grand Prix
There is no terrible way to win. There is only winning.
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Michael A. Aquino

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#44587 - 12/03/10 03:47 PM Re: The HOW and not the WHAT. [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Knievel74 Offline
member


Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
 Originally Posted By: OrgasmicKarmatic
I have searched this whole site over and over again and this has popped up several times. Obviously, in most Satanic forums, there will always be that one person or several people that have something to say in the effects of "What is a Satanist?". In fact, it is also commonplace for this to be one of the first that make it onto a new forum. The idea that Satanism has to be defined so that all may read and say themselves "Oh yeah, I do that and that" and so on and so far.


That's because the people who post the topic didn't do any research on their own and want someone else to do the work for them and explain it.

The understanding of Satanism is no different than the understanding of anything else. If it has to be explained to you, then you still wouldn't understand it. You either get it or you don't.

And if someone has to ask the "What", then they'll never be able to apply the "How".

Btw, good post \:\)
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"Man was meant to live, not just to exist". - Evel Knievel

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#44595 - 12/04/10 09:43 PM Re: The HOW and not the WHAT. [Re: Knievel74]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
member


Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
@Matthew - You're welcome. I enjoy posting here, even if I don't post a lot of my own up here. I won't unless it really strikes me to. Yes, I believe that the what is important for beginners. However, I do not think that this is something that should be too hard to understand and it shouldn't take too much to get the gist of "what" a Satanist should be. And since it is an individualistic thing.. eventually the what is determined by the user. Much like the usefulness of reading material is to the reader of said materials. The how is the most important as it really determines if one is truly living a Satanic lifestyle. The how of the Satanist really makes up the what of a Satanist. Don't ya think?

@Dimitri - Of course, and that is what the how is all about. Living your life to the way you properly see it fit. Unfortunately, not everyone picks up on this..

@Michael - I'd like to think that there is a blissful connection between the two. Satanism is unaided.. much like picking up bike riding, you learn how to do it by yourself. There is little support. When you crash, you pick yourself up and either resolve to yourself to keep on going with it or to stop and give up on it.

@Knievel - Thank you btw. I definitely agree.. You have it or you don't. You get it or you don't. If you don't get it, no amount of helping someone to help themselves is going to work. And as I have said elsewhere... who wants to help out anyone that won't take the initiative to help themselves? Certainly not I and as I have several things on my plate myself, I do not have time to waste on something as futile as someone who cannot comprehend the ideals and tenets of Satanism. Again, either you get it or you don't. It's nothing that you don't approach in real life. Bottom line here is, you can't teach stupid.
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#44632 - 12/05/10 08:13 PM Re: The HOW and not the WHAT. [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



Thanks Org,

I think a Satanic magician acquires useful and valid principles through study and experience, and puts those principles into practice, in the real world, in order to obtain tangible results. I have a background in teaching and study, so one of the most important sources of useful principles for me is the work of more experienced magician’s, and also other works which I find relevant and which I found or have been suggested to me.

In terms of the what: I feel that Satanism has a definition and it is located in the works of Dr. LaVey, so I tend to dispute the notion that Satanism is whatever a person wants it to be over time. Some may not dwell on the what for any great length of time, but I think that each needs to see themselves reflected in the Doktor’s works and look at themselves honestly and sincerely to see if the label fits.

I am very interested in the what of Satanism and the how of Satanism together. Deep reflection on the what tends to be a deep reflection on the self; the study of the how inevitably leads into the principles of black magic.

I am a firm believer in the notion: if it works for you, then don’t change it, unless you have to. If your approach works then that’s great.

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#44634 - 12/05/10 08:59 PM Re: The HOW and not the WHAT. [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
manofsteel Offline
member


Registered: 05/08/10
Posts: 153
Loc: Indiana U.S.
A satanist is a person who is themself, clear about what their life is and what they want it to be about. He or she walks strong knowing that they and only they can make a good life for themselves. There are many different beliefs amongst satanists but we do share one common thread I hope. To be who we are all the time and not be controlled by the masses. I am me, I do as I will and I have no regrets as I have thought my actions through and live as I see fit. I am my god and will live well and respect others wishes as well. At least that's my idea.
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Amongst the sheep emerges a wolf.

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#44638 - 12/05/10 11:23 PM Re: The HOW and not the WHAT. [Re: manofsteel]
HeimiricIX Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/29/10
Posts: 75
Loc: Mexico City.
Well, I believe a Satanist is a person who possess certain qualities and that has made the choice of living under the Satanist flag.

For not all the people that have those qualities is a Satanist, it is, in the end, a matter of will.

Let's put it this way. Two different guys (or girls) come and they say they are both Satanists, which of the two have the needed basic qualities of a Satanist and who is just using the name will differenciate the real Satanist. But that real Satanist has already made the claim that He Is.

There is a chance they have decided not to be Satanists or that they care not about the name.

Best.
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#44659 - 12/06/10 09:11 AM Re: The HOW and not the WHAT. [Re: HeimiricIX]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
member


Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
@Matthew - I think that a great many of us started out with the Laveyan concepts and as we lived and grew, they morphed to serve us for our different purposes. I have studied many sides of Satanism and am fascinated by them all. It's nice to have a lust for something and be able to fulfill that lust for it.

Do you enjoy teaching?

@ManofSteel - I think we share more than that thread. We all live out Satanism to our own devices. Deciding what to take here and what to use there but most of your paragraph shows a lot of what everyone stands for. Clear, concise actions throughout our lives that shows that we know the what and the how. Something that matures in time and never stops. Seeing what things are for what they really are, guiding ourselves by ourselves because we have the strength to do so.. I could go on and on about the what and the how.. I just would rather live it. ;\)


@X - You prove a valid point. Not all those with Satanic qualities will end up calling themselves Satanists. That is their way of life. This kind of reminds me about a conversation I had about how I was raising my daughter free of the concept of religious perspective. I want her to make her own choice. If she has questions, I am here for her. Someone asked me once, "Well what if she becomes a christian?". Then that is HER choice and she made it. The ability for her to choose for herself what she deems is right, no matter what path it is (LHP/RHP), to me is quite Satanic in itself.

There is a difference between the follower and one who just is.
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#44664 - 12/06/10 02:06 PM Re: The HOW and not the WHAT. [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Dutch Satanist Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/19/10
Posts: 69
Loc: Delft, The Netherlands
What LaVey wrote in the Satanic Bible (at least the first half of t) just meshes with my world views. Views I did have as long as I can remember. And even though I didn't label myself as a Satanist at first, it did most definitely consider myself a Satanic individual, or at least a defacto Satanist.

So, I'm not sure those concepts are necessarily LaVeyan, as they were there with me even before I did read the Satanic Bible. That does not mean the Satanic Bible doesn't matter, it actually does. I wouldn't have given Satanism a second thought if I didn't encounter it and saw the benefits I could reap from it by pursuing it further.
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“There is a beast in man that needs to be excersised, not exorcised.”

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#44686 - 12/06/10 09:05 PM Re: The HOW and not the WHAT. [Re: Dutch Satanist]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
member


Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
@DS - Great to hear from you! Yes, I would agree that the qualities that I had that make me a Satanist I have had my whole life. Maturing and luck for the most part of running into something like the Satanic Bible gave me more of an insight of opening up as a Satanist. xD
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http://othermindx.blogspot.com

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#44695 - 12/07/10 04:30 AM Re: The HOW and not the WHAT. [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



To Org,

Thanks for your question.

Teaching is one of those hats I used to wear. I enjoyed it, mostly, though it could be a real pain in the ass. When teaching is going well then it is one of the best jobs in the world, but when it isn't going well, then it just plain sucks.

I gave it up because I was spending a lot of time playing policeman, which I didn't enjoy and I found the curriculum a bit stifling. I have trouble with the notion of social control at times as well.

I have a very different sort of career path now, but is an interesting and quite lucrative one.

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#44729 - 12/07/10 10:08 PM Re: The HOW and not the WHAT. [Re: ]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
member


Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
I used to think about becoming a teacher when I was younger. I had a passion for English and Political Sciences. It was a couple of the things that I was the best at when I went to college. Took Honors classes in English and my Political Science classes had me enamored. However, in Michigan, teaching does not do well as a career and so I moved on to another passion of mine.. another branch of Science. Which I intend on getting my masters in.

I think it takes a lot to be a teacher. I have had some professors that couldn't even be bothered to make the class intriguing to his students.. but then again, you always know one with true passion because they light the classroom on fire. I have had several of these professors too and they have been the key to my academic successes for being interesting and keeping it straight.
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