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#44568 - 12/02/10 05:37 AM SS, Totenkopf, Gammadion & Satanism
Tasman Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 6
Loc: Poland, Gubin
 Originally Posted By: Lords of Chaos, Michael Moynihan and Didrik Søderlind

LaVey: … The aesthetics of National Socialism and Satanism dovetail.


 Originally Posted By: Patryk "Tasman" Paterek, Invocation of Destruction

Lightening cut clouds
And the ground trembling under alloys of hordes
They march out on my sign
To kill
To rape

They are White Demon of Vatican
Open a gate to another world
And cry...


What is Race? There is no "White Race". It is only nation! There is no "Human Race". It is only species.
Existing two human Races: Lords' Race and Slaves' Race.
Lords' Race then intelligent men, egoists, aristocrats.
Slaves' Race then stupid, mystical men. [read F. Nietzsche]

 Originally Posted By: Michael A. Aquino, Church of Satan, That Other Black Order

The Schutzstaffel placed the highest possible emphasis on symbolism, visual and otherwise. Every facet of the organization was intentionally portrayed so as to accent the elitism that the SS purported to foster. The color black, for example, has always elicited feelings of fear and respect. Thus those who wish to dominate others invariably choose black attire, whather they be executioners, clergy, policemen, judges, Wiccans, or Satanists. So the SS was uniformed in black and silver after the example of the Italian Fascisti, and there was no question of its aethetic appeal when compared to its SA rival.

The skull-and-crossbones may seem a rather juvenile insignia for a paramilitary organization, but, as the trademark of the SS, it produced the same intimidation of opponents that the "Jolly Roger" did during the days of sea piracy. In time the Nazis' already-dynamic swastika was rendered even more striking by turning it askance.


NS and Satanism dovetail. Dark image, symbolism [for example: one "S" - id est Sig-Rune - in Scandinavian mythology sign 'good', two "S" sign 'evil'. ] etc.

 Originally Posted By: Waffen SS in Colours

The last Waffen SS unit to be formed, the SS-Division (motorisiert) "Wiking" commanded by Felix Steiner, also had its own symbol in the form of a stylised "nordic" swastika, i.e. the "sunny wheel". The insignia was used until the end of the war.


Swastika [Gammadion] is symbol of the power, sun, abundance and strength.

In my opinion, Satanism are very similar to Fascism / Nazism.

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#44570 - 12/02/10 12:18 PM Re: SS, Totenkopf, Gammadion & Satanism [Re: Tasman]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 1915
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Tasman
In my opinion, Satanism is very similar to Fascism/Nazism.

No, they are fundamentally antithetical. Satanism is an extreme statement of individualism, while fascism & National Socialism exalt the immersion of the individual within the state:

 Originally Posted By: Adolf Hitler
To the Christian doctrine of the infinite significance of the individual human soul and of personal responsibility, I oppose with icy clarity the saving doctrine of the nothingness and insignificance of the individual human being, and of his continued existence in the visible immortality of the nation. The dogma of vicarious suffering and death through a divine savior gives place to that of the representative living and acting of the new Leader-legislator, which liberates the mass of the faithful from the burden of free will.

Don't confuse the substance of an ideology with whatever symbolism it uses.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

[On Ignore: Dread, 6Satan6Archist6, Caladrius, MindFux, SIN3, Wright]

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#44613 - 12/05/10 09:21 AM Re: SS, Totenkopf, Gammadion & Satanism [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Tasman Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 6
Loc: Poland, Gubin
 Originally Posted By: Michael A. Aquino

Don't confuse the substance of an ideology with whatever symbolism it uses.


Nazi philosophy is stupid (economic policy and pseudo-racial concept "White Power") .

But symbolism...

 Originally Posted By: The Satanic Scriptures, Peter H. Gilmore, "The Fascism Question"

Satanists are aware of what impact words and images have on the herd, and thus
use them to their advantage. It should be clear to anyone who has observed human
society that there is an all-pervading interest on the part of the contemporary general
public in the Third Reich. Anyone with cable television or who happens to visit movie
theatres will see that Nazis are the standard archetype in entertainment for what the
masses deem to be evil, and they are fascinated with this dead government and fetishize it
to no end. Do you watch “The History Channel” (whose emblem is carved, angular letter
“H”)? We jokingly say that this really stands for “Hitler” not “History” as much of their
programming concerns analysis of the Third Reich.


 Originally Posted By: The Black Flame Vol.4, No. 3 and 4

...
On Fascism
It seems apparent that Nazism and fascism sell. It's too horrible to contemplate (smack lips)
(...)
If a neo-fascist look - and outlook - makes for men who look like men and women who like women, I'm all for it.


Many people have thought about the integration of NS symbolism into ritual ( for example, I ). Swastika, uniform of SS... This is the best in Die Elektrichen Volkspiele!

 Originally Posted By: Anton Szandor LaVey, Satanic Rituals"THE LAW OF THE TRAPEZOID DIE ELEKTRISCHEN VORSPIELE"

When Die elektrischen Vorspiele was performed in Nazi
Germany (circa 1932-35) by the intellectual element of the
budding Sicherheitsdienst RFS, the banners and symbols of
the time were used as an integral part of the decor. Participants
were garbed in full dress, whether uniformed or not. Topical
music was added-usually Morgenrot at the beginning and
Unsre Fahne Flattert uns Voran as a closing anthem. These
were played by the organist or on a gramophone. Music by
Richard Wagner may be used instead at the opening and closing
of the ritual

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#44615 - 12/05/10 09:43 AM Re: SS, Totenkopf, Gammadion & Satanism [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Dimitri Offline
senior member


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 2409
Might add there are +60 years between now and then.
Ofcourse the old veteran and the traumatized jew who was born 2-3 generations after WWII still see National Socialism as the biggest evil on earth and will quote all bad things written by those mean people who are now long dead and burried while making a few bucks from it.

Reminds me of the desert fox, if I'm not mistaking his book about warfare at this day is still being used by all the world militaries as a guide/top reference material during training and for strategy purposes. Big bad nazi-scum..

Anyways, my jabbering aside, some tenests of national socialism (apart from certain symbolism) can be linked with Satanism. Also, after 60+ years national socialism has evolved a bit. Nowadays there is a place of individualism, now thinking of it; there always was...
National socialists, in fact, are very individualistic people. But they also get that particular song of U2 "sometimes you can't make it on your own".

I always have admired the Germans for their hands-on, no-bullshit approach. But then again, National Socialism isn't Satanism nor is it the other way round. Let us not confuse a way of living with an ideology shall we?

Also reminds me of a documentary of Louis Theroux: "Louis and the nazis". There is a vast difference between the National socialists from the 1940ies (and perhaps those VERY FEW who are true to the ideology) and those wannabe fuckers as portrayed in that particular documentary.


Edited by Dimitri (12/05/10 09:48 AM)
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#44623 - 12/05/10 02:34 PM Re: SS, Totenkopf, Gammadion & Satanism [Re: Dimitri]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
Since Satanism is not a political ideology you can't really say that this or that ideology is more or less Satanic (or antithetical or whatever). Satanists tend to choose political affiliation based on a society they see as fruitful and desireable. It can range from Fascism to Anarchism and everything in between.

Since Satanism has no firm and stable foundation because of its individualism it contains alot of interpretation and personal adaptation. Fascism in its essence is not about destroying the individual but about gathering a nation and make it work for a common goal and hopefully manage to create a more meaningful life and strengthen its individual parts. It recognizes both the need of individualism and collectivism - all in its ideal form of course.

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#44625 - 12/05/10 03:59 PM Re: SS, Totenkopf, Gammadion & Satanism [Re: Tasman]
Master Magick Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 58
Loc: New York, USA
There seems to be a need among some in and around Satanism and usually those new to Satanism to associate Satanism with Fascism/Nazism.

If you want to say that both have an understanding of symbols and how to use them, then say that. That does not make them similar. You could have used almost any group in your comparison including the Catholic church to make your point on symbolism and it might sound good but still would not be true.

Then you go on to quote others talking about aesthetics, movies and selling a 'look'... There are many fetishes and among them, clothing/uniforms. Among the uniform fetishes, military uniforms and guess what? Nazi uniforms are often worn by a Dominatrix. (so are Police and Nurse uniforms) Because a Dominatrix understands how to use the symbolism of a uniform does not make her idealogically aligned with Nazis, facists or health professionals!

Fascism has failed miserably due to many factors, not the least of which is its rejection of individualism and focus on a singular collective identity. Most un-Satanic.
_________________________
Magick

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#44629 - 12/05/10 05:14 PM Re: SS, Totenkopf, Gammadion & Satanism [Re: Master Magick]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
 Originally Posted By: Master Magick

Fascism has failed miserably due to many factors, not the least of which is its rejection of individualism and focus on a singular collective identity. Most un-Satanic.


The reason fascism failed was because it was, for the most part, on the losing side of a world war. Had the war not happened things would look very different. Fascism largely did have a positive impact on Italy before the war. Falangism in Spain survived the war and had booth good and bad impact. National Socialism made a remarkable job at saving Germanys economic situation and actually made them rich and powerful again in a surprisingly short time.

Now I do not agree on the racial aspects of NS for example but to say that they failed because of its rejection of individualism and focus on a singular collective identidy is probably very wrong. It is because they managed to unite the nation towards a common goal that they saved the German economy and thus helped its individual members (although they also made life worse for jews and others they regarded as a threat). Sadly for them the war destoyed all they tried to build.


Edited by TheInsane (12/05/10 05:18 PM)

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#44630 - 12/05/10 05:33 PM Re: SS, Totenkopf, Gammadion & Satanism [Re: Master Magick]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Master Magick
There seems to be a need among some in and around Satanism and usually those new to Satanism to associate Satanism with Fascism/Nazism.

If you want to say that both have an understanding of symbols and how to use them, then say that. That does not make them similar.


Frustrating, isn't it? But it's something that we see every day here at the ol' 600 Club. People trying to bend and warp Satanism to fit their own personal ideologies so that they can "claim the name without playing the game." It really wouldn't surprise me one bit if we didn't see a "LaVeyan Setian Church of Jesus" group popping up soon, or "Satanic Scouts of America."

If people would simply understand that not everything is Satanism, and not everyone is cut out to BE a Satanist, we might see a drop in such ludicrous postings, but alas, I think that the human capacity for self delusion is a bit stronger than that.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#44631 - 12/05/10 06:17 PM Re: SS, Totenkopf, Gammadion & Satanism [Re: Master Magick]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I think the mantra that satanists are individuals is much ado about nothing, if not only because all humans are, and when all are; the concept becomes meaningless. Being an individual isn't a quality and does not make a satanist. What makes a satanist is by definition a shared characteristic; else there would be no Satanism; even when definitions upon Satanism might diverse.

Do fascism and Satanism match? Sure they do, even more; it should be the preferred solution to herd the cattle for a satanist. That's what it is all about; herding the mass, not the satanist.
If you, like me, do think the only purpose of life is to dominate, not replicate or survive as the popular idea goes, fascism makes most sense. It is a dominant form of governing which is much more aligned with human nature than an egalizer like democracy.

Nazism was spiffy at many levels but inevitable a thing of the past.

D.

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#44633 - 12/05/10 08:44 PM Re: SS, Totenkopf, Gammadion & Satanism [Re: Diavolo]
manofsteel Offline
member


Registered: 05/08/10
Posts: 139
Loc: Indiana U.S.
Diavolo, you have a general idea amongst satanists but you fail to see one thing, we don't kill thousands of people because of out beliefs or in a lesser sense we don't persicute them. We are who we are and we make the most of out lives without interfering with others, unless they are a problem to us. Just because you might think that you or your kind is superior does not mean that all others are inferior. I am not saying what you are putting out there is rigt or wrong but as a satanist I tell you that all satanists off all walks of life and ethecity can feel, think, and take care of themselves.
A dominint form of governing is getting people to stand up for themselves and get their asses out their and find jobs or if they have family's do whatever it is they have to do to survive. Not controlling anyone or anyone or anything as Gov't would have it. No, we need more individuals to stand up and take responsibility for their lives and their friends and family. Satanists don't control the masses, they take care of their own.
_________________________
Amongst the sheep emerges a wolf.

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#44636 - 12/05/10 09:46 PM Re: SS, Totenkopf, Gammadion & Satanism [Re: manofsteel]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
 Originally Posted By: manofsteel
Diavolo, you have a general idea amongst satanists but you fail to see one thing, we don't kill thousands of people because of out beliefs or in a lesser sense we don't persicute them. We are who we are and we make the most of out lives without interfering with others, unless they are a problem to us. Just because you might think that you or your kind is superior does not mean that all others are inferior. I am not saying what you are putting out there is rigt or wrong but as a satanist I tell you that all satanists off all walks of life and ethecity can feel, think, and take care of themselves.


It is not inherent in fascism to go out and kill thousands of people. Fascist Italy had an idea of class cooperation. They realized that not all people were equal but also that all were needed in a society but working on different levels.

Fascism does have blood on its hands but not more than democratic ideological countries have. Political systems always tend to have alot of blood on their hands just like religions that have had a great deal of power.

Now national socialism is sometimes called fascism but I like to make a distinction between NS ideology and fascism since the there is a fundamental difference in the view on race and blood.

Furthermore I do not agree with what you say that "all satanists off all walks of life and ethecity can feel, think, and take care of themselves". I think alot of Satanists live in a bubble and its easy to talk the talk but not walk the walk. However if you can walk the walk I do not care from what walk of life or what ethniticity you are. If you have deserved something you have deserved it. Simple as that.

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#44637 - 12/05/10 11:10 PM Re: SS, Totenkopf, Gammadion & Satanism [Re: TheInsane]
HeimiricIX Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/29/10
Posts: 75
Loc: Mexico City.
 Originally Posted By: TheInsane
Furthermore I do not agree with what you say that "all satanists off all walks of life and ethecity can feel, think, and take care of themselves". I think alot of Satanists live in a bubble and its easy to talk the talk but not walk the walk. However if you can walk the walk I do not care from what walk of life or what ethniticity you are. If you have deserved something you have deserved it. Simple as that.


I don't believe those who can't are to be called Satanists to begin with. So I would agree with manofsteel statement there.

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Do fascism and Satanism match? Sure they do, even more; it should be the preferred solution to herd the cattle for a satanist. That's what it is all about; herding the mass, not the satanist.
If you, like me, do think the only purpose of life is to dominate...


But what if that is not the case? In the sense I care almost next to nothing about politics, I see politics as a diversion for myself and give them no interest nor power in my life choices.

I do not care to dominate anyone. I do not care to be a leader, for being a leader usually binds you to those under your care. If you were to be a fascist ruler in a country where I lived there is a chance that, since I don't care to play the politics game, whatever rules you apply there may stop or hinder me in whatever way I choose to live my life.

For someone like myself, who cares nothing about the country where he lives and would without a doubt change it if the situation in there would become conuterproductive, I believe a democratic state where noone really pays attention is better suited to live.

Best.
_________________________
HeimiricIX - Made you look

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#44639 - 12/05/10 11:26 PM Re: SS, Totenkopf, Gammadion & Satanism [Re: TheInsane]
Master Magick Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 58
Loc: New York, USA
 Originally Posted By: TheInsane
 Originally Posted By: Master Magick

Fascism has failed miserably due to many factors, not the least of which is its rejection of individualism and focus on a singular collective identity. Most un-Satanic.


The reason fascism failed was because it was, for the most part, on the losing side of a world war. Had the war not happened things would look very different. Fascism largely did have a positive impact on Italy before the war. Falangism in Spain survived the war and had booth good and bad impact. National Socialism made a remarkable job at saving Germanys economic situation and actually made them rich and powerful again in a surprisingly short time.

Now I do not agree on the racial aspects of NS for example but to say that they failed because of its rejection of individualism and focus on a singular collective identidy is probably very wrong. It is because they managed to unite the nation towards a common goal that they saved the German economy and thus helped its individual members (although they also made life worse for jews and others they regarded as a threat). Sadly for them the war destoyed all they tried to build.


I said it failed due to "many factors", not solely because of its rejection of individualism. However, that is a huge factor.
Yes, the Italian facists and nazis are gone cause they lost the war, and all the revisionist history in the world won't change that. "Sadly for them"? They lost, gone, done, dead. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.
Using "what if" they hadn't lost and look how good the economy was doesn't change that fact that it failed due to the decisions that were made. Those decisions were based on their failed ideaology. Losers don't get to say 'that it seemed like a good idea at the time'.

My point however, wasn't to debate why facism and nazism are failures, but why facist/nazi symbolism has nothing whatsoever to do with Satanism, except maybe if you are dressing to intimidate or impress.
_________________________
Magick

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#44640 - 12/05/10 11:44 PM Re: SS, Totenkopf, Gammadion & Satanism [Re: Jake999]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 1915
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
It really wouldn't surprise me one bit if we didn't see a "LaVeyan Setian Church of Jesus" group popping up soon, or "Satanic Scouts of America."

“A SCOUT IS REVERENT”
- by Michael A. Aquino VI°
The Scroll of Set, October 1991

I have been following with some bemusement lately the continued writhing of the Boy Scouts of America in the matter of religion. Several cases have made the news recently, among them that of two boys in California who were expelled for not saying “God” while taking the Scout Oath, and that of an Illinois boy who was not permitted to join the BSA because his father would not sign a religious oath. When confronted on these issues, BSA spokesmen have mumbled defensively that the organization requires “a belief in God” as a part of its basic tenets.

This is a hoot. As with the “under God” phrase of the Pledge of Allegiance, the “duty to God” phrase of the Scout Oath and the “A Scout is Reverent” part of the Scout Law have always been understood by those reciting them as mere symbolism of one’s sincerity. I duly [and openly] became an Eagle Scout without ever being a member of any church or otherwise being expected to “be religious”, and three years before I joined the Church of Satan I served a term as National Commander of the Eagle Scout Honor Society.

Moreover there is a good deal of non-Godism in the BSA as it is presently constituted. Among its approved religious awards, for example, is the Buddhist Sangha Award. Buddhists, in case no one noticed, don’t believe in the Judæo/Christian “God”.

Those selected for Scouting’s internal honor society, the Order of the Arrow, enjoy a delightful dose of American Indian magical and religious ritual, to include [in our lodge] annual reenactments of the famous flesh-tearing Sun Dance of the Teton Sioux. I guess my conduct was acceptable to the ghost-chief Allowat Sakima, as in due course I received the O/A’s highest “Vigil Honor”.

The rituals of the Knights of Dunamis, the Eagle Scout Honor Society, were all based upon the Grail Quest of Arthurian legend, with all of its pleasantly-sinister magical and mystical overtones. By the time I became National Commander in 1965, I had received an excellent education in Grail-occultism, both Christian and non-Christian, which stood me in good stead a short time later when I penned “In Search of the Unholy Grail” for the Church of Satan’s Cloven Hoof.

All in all, the exposure to mystery, magic, and mysticism I received in the BSA probably served as a major stimulant to my interest in the Church of Satan a couple of years later. Be Prepared and all that.


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#44641 - 12/05/10 11:55 PM Re: SS, Totenkopf, Gammadion & Satanism [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Master Magick Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 58
Loc: New York, USA
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
I think the mantra that satanists are individuals is much ado about nothing, if not only because all humans are, and when all are; the concept becomes meaningless. Being an individual isn't a quality and does not make a satanist. What makes a satanist is by definition a shared characteristic; else there would be no Satanism; even when definitions upon Satanism might diverse.

Do fascism and Satanism match? Sure they do, even more; it should be the preferred solution to herd the cattle for a satanist. That's what it is all about; herding the mass, not the satanist.
If you, like me, do think the only purpose of life is to dominate, not replicate or survive as the popular idea goes, fascism makes most sense. It is a dominant form of governing which is much more aligned with human nature than an egalizer like democracy.

Nazism was spiffy at many levels but inevitable a thing of the past.

D.


Your assertation that all humans are individuals is true, most of them are individually drooling on themselves while watching 'reality tv'. However "Satanic Individuals" are not just your everyday humans. A Satanist can stand out from the herd in a myriad of ways, some obvious, some not, but a true Satanist will be a standout. That may be as a successful businessperson, actor, farmer or community organizer, etc. The point being, a Satanic Individual will always rise above, aspire to be the best at whatever they choose to be. For the most part, facsim does not allow for that.

Why the Hell would a Satanist want to herd the cattle? They graze just fine on their own. I personally like mine out in the fields of everyday life where they make themselves painfully obvious 24/7. I have no idea where you live but I can't imagine wanting to live under anyones thumb in a facist state.

Facism and Satnism do not match. That's a ludicrous statement. A Satanist could perhaps approve of a facist government, but only if it was not governing him! A facist government would not allow for Satanic beliefs so let's stop the nonsense.

Finally if you can find anything 'spiffy' about Nazism besides the ss uniforms, you're pretty much a lost cause...
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Magick

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