Page 1 of 3 123>
Topic Options
#44598 - 12/04/10 10:19 PM Service to others in Satanism
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
member


Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
Fluffy, cotton candy, RHP .. call them what you will but they are out there. In a more recent conversation, none too lacking the bullshit drama of getting large groups of stupid people together in one place, there has been a number at large getting a bad wrap by the great divide. What great divide you ask? Could it possible there is a line and everyone is choosing whether or not they want to be one side or the other? Oh yes, my friends. Certainly there is a great divide. Do you choose to walk the line or choose a side? What if you had no choice? I, for one, have always been about choice here, there, everywhere. I choose and do for myself regardless of those around me. If it's better for me, then fuck it right?

I have been taking notice at other sites that I am a part of this invisible line is being projected through the wills of others whom cry that ignorance to their beliefs is being done. They are being wronged in the essence of not being able to be heard. I can hear you loud and clear. I just don't care.

Playing the victim instead of claiming the title of hypocrite is surely the cowardice way of doing it. The great divide between spiritual Satanism and Individualistic Satanism is huge in other places. Not so much here as we all can actually stand our own grounds when coming under attack. But back to the topic at hand here. (Trouble concentrating, I apologize for this.)

It has been introduced into another site that self service by doing service to others is a genuinely good idea. We have all gotten those ill received thread posts that ask about the most dumb things that you could readily google if you were truly interested in it. There is a member that has decided to take this responsibility upon themselves. Open their hand by offering more than what I consider their responsibility to offer. If that is what she so wishes, then sure, let her right? This member though, has made it a point to turn her nose down at others that do not make similar attempts. She believes that it is a service to the devil and herself to do this. To the point of making these false posts to "prove her point"?

Now I will address quickly as to why this even pertains to me.. why I even care about the selfless RHP actions of another Satanists as even LeVay has proclaimed that it is okay for one to conform to what they wish because that is what they wish. However, I have a big issue being looked upon in a negative light because I do not do so myself. If anyone paid attention to my first intro, I had a round about with a couple people here.. and they challenged what I was talking about and with that challenge it opened my eyes and helped me preform more research (that I also did MYSELF) to mature my thoughts more. THIS is something that I believe is "helping others help themselves". These two didn't give me any information, they forced me to provide information about what I was talking about.. forced me to stand on my OWN two feet and then mature my thoughts so that I could strengthen myself as a person and a Satanist.

She asks."Well what if they cannot figure out how to ask correctly?" What is that any of my problem? It's not. Challenge, trial by error.. this is how we learn and how we obtain information and how we mature our perspectives. When we are challenged we are forced to look at it on a deeper level and asked to defend it.. if it falls through, then we look at it even more and redefine what it is that we believe. This is the learning process.

You can't teach stupid.. you can modify ignorance. Push comes to shove however, you get what you give. And if you happen to give out bullshit, be prepared to take it right on back. Playing the victim does nothing when you are not a victim. Even then, these days victims don't get anything but a box of tissues. If you have something to say.. say it or stfu, in my opinion. If what you say cannot hold a candle, nevertheless survive the fire of someone elses challenges or even simple questions only meant to further THEIR understand of your methodology .. then you are not the victim, you just need to do more research and refine yourself. If you dip out without even taking a stand, you are a coward.
_________________________
I am a ghost.x
http://othermindx.blogspot.com

Top
#44600 - 12/04/10 11:10 PM Re: Service to others in Satanism [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Autodidact Offline
member


Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 428
I've been sick, so maybe it's me, but I'm not sure I understand this post at all.

It appears, to me, to boil down to this:

 Originally Posted By: OrgasmicKarmatic
However, I have a big issue being looked upon in a negative light because I do not do so myself.


... in which case I would say, "Who cares what they think?" Or, phrased in a manner that, judging from your mood in this post, seems more appropriate, "Why is it important to you to conform, or to be perceived as conforming, to their behavioral models?"

You are surrounded by the mentally lazy. They build simple dichotomies, because it's easy. There is no line, and there are way more than two sides. Ignore the conversation on that other site, it's a waste of your time.
_________________________
An nescis, mi fili, quantilla prudentia mundus regatur?

Top
#44602 - 12/04/10 11:27 PM Re: Service to others in Satanism [Re: Autodidact]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
member


Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
This is easier said than done it seems by many that interact on this particular site. And I do my best to ignore what is being said by these particulars. On the other side of the coin though, it must be realized that their voiced opinion needs to be challenged and these particulars run away every time.

Also, I can deal with being looked down upon. What does it matter in the end anyways? I am going to continue doing as I wish. However, when you are going to smite me, I am going to destroy you. This member has several times jumped on me and has refused to give her design in a rational matter other than sitting there crying about the injustices of being spiritual. Is your spiritual demeanor REALLY going to be affected by my being a "meanie"? It shouldn't right? However, every time it is an attack on her belief system. Honestly, I had respect for that person.. but at least I can say she can prove ONE THING.. and that is looks really are deceiving. Don't judge me without knowing me and then piss in your pants with me when you find out how incorrect you are.. Coward. Ya getting where I am coming from now?
_________________________
I am a ghost.x
http://othermindx.blogspot.com

Top
#44605 - 12/05/10 01:47 AM Re: Service to others in Satanism [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
You can either stay at the other site and put up with her bullshit or leave.

It makes no difference to anyone.

You make/made the choice to deal with an idiot instead of walking away and ignoring them.

All it seems is that you are venting about another site here.

M.
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#44606 - 12/05/10 02:13 AM Re: Service to others in Satanism [Re: Morgan]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
member


Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
Perhaps, that is true and as an admin I'd rather boot them before I left the site. However, the site's runner will not let that be allowed. So there they stay.

My main point of this thread was actually more towards the idea of someone trying help someone that won't help themselves than it was of the user that I was explaining that had this certain perspective. The user has nothing to do with it with the exception that she was who I chose to use as an example.

With that being said, also I would like to point out that although it was a slight rant against this idea, it was still the exposure of something that I have noticed lately and disagree with. I have no issues ignoring this user. There are many ways to do so. However, I have my opinions and I am going to voice them through whatever means I deem necessary.

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.
_________________________
I am a ghost.x
http://othermindx.blogspot.com

Top
#44607 - 12/05/10 02:45 AM Re: Service to others in Satanism [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
It's disrespectful to THIS site, however, to be dragging your problems from another site to here to air your grievances against someone who is not affiliated with this site. What do you hope to gain? Going from site to site, hoping to gin up support is simply juvenile, and the 600 Club has never engaged in that kind of petty cross-site bickering.

We do occasionally get people here who can't seem to get along with people, and we've some very capable and very active Admin people who take care of that quickly. This site has earned a reputation for having a very low tolerance for bullshit and game playing.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


Top
#44608 - 12/05/10 03:33 AM Re: Service to others in Satanism [Re: Jake999]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
member


Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
I believe this is more of a misunderstanding than anything else. I wasn't trying to drag anything over here so much as point out that service to a person via helping them to help themselves is a useless matter. I do not need support in the matter between this person and I since it has cleared itself up and it was between her and myself.

I'm sorry if it seems like I was doing anything other than offering an example of what I was speaking out about. Perhaps, next time I will leave out the example so that this misunderstanding of what the topic really was about won't get lost in the example itself.

_________________________
I am a ghost.x
http://othermindx.blogspot.com

Top
#44618 - 12/05/10 11:59 AM Re: Service to others in Satanism [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Autodidact Offline
member


Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 428
 Originally Posted By: OrgasmicKarmatic
I wasn't trying to drag anything over here so much as point out that service to a person via helping them to help themselves is a useless matter.


Ah, I get it now.

I see from your profile that you're 24. This is an important lesson for you, as you will deal with the rest of your life.

People have their own understanding of how the world works, their own mental model. They think and act, remember and justify, based on that framework.

Few are willing to examine this model critically and consider modifying it. The vast majority literally live their life by it. If they are unwilling to examine their own framework, you cannot "help" them do so. Any attempt to do so is perceived as an attack on all they hold dear, literally.

Always remember this. It's the basis of virtually every form of useful communication (and LBM, for that matter). (In my mental model, anyway ) For example, notice how political campaigns leverage this. Notice how good managers try to improve their team members. Notice how "good listeners" work in a conversation. Notice how some moms get their kids to do things, while others seem to fight for every step.

In cases like you describe, you cannot "help her help herself", whatever that means, by opposing her worldview. You cannot succeed, because she does not want to. Understand her worldview, and leverage it to get what you need, if anything; otherwise, it's a waste of your time.
_________________________
An nescis, mi fili, quantilla prudentia mundus regatur?

Top
#44620 - 12/05/10 12:14 PM Re: Service to others in Satanism [Re: Autodidact]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
Any attempt to do so is perceived as an attack on all they hold dear, literally.


This is very true and I have seen this principle in action on many occasions. My mom used to spend a lot of money buying crap from that "psychic" Sylvia Brown. I tried, on many occasions, to explain to her that Sylvia Brown and all others like her are frauds and that she is only wasting her money.

I was honestly trying to help her but from her point of view I was being an asshole for doubting something that to her was very important.

So I ultimately just decided to drop it; she is an adult who can spend her money how she sees fit and obviously I wasn't getting through. Eventually she dropped the habit on her own but I like to think I played somewhat of a role in that decision. Now if only I could get her to give up Astrology and "crystal healing".
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#44621 - 12/05/10 12:24 PM Re: Service to others in Satanism [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
HeimiricIX Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/29/10
Posts: 75
Loc: Mexico City.
I believe sometimes you can help others to help themselves and sometimes it will be useful for both, you and the other, but a bit is required.

First they must have the need to change / learn and they must have actively looking for that change / learning experience, they also must have reached a point in which they have exhausted most of the usual venues in which they can learn how to help themselves in that matter to be able to receive correctly that help / learning, for then only they will look for help in more experienced hands and will do so in a honest way.

Keep in mind that you cannot help them directly, for giving them the answer to their problems will only make them lazy.

You can help them by being an example or by suggesting a door they may have not explored for their dilemma, giving them pertinent questions for them to answer the best way they can on a subject-related way.

This approach is one of a teacher, I believe, and more than actually giving them the help their need you just make a way in which they can move forward wherever they have found themselves to be stuck.

This is useful also for those who are helping / teaching, for anyone who has taught a class on any subject have probably realized that they tend to understand the subject they are talking about more and more each time they teach it.

Best.

(Spell checker used, however I apologize if something isn't clear or made some grammar mistake there.)
_________________________
HeimiricIX - Made you look

Top
#44687 - 12/06/10 09:45 PM Re: Service to others in Satanism [Re: HeimiricIX]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
member


Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
I am truly of the belief that if a person cannot help themselves then they are not worthy of my help. I do agree if you give someone everything that it makes them lazy. If you really wanted to know something that bad you can easily type what you wish to learn about in google and get a answer. Even if it is an superficial jump off point. It still points you in a better direction than you would be headed if you didn't do any research at all..

Edited by OrgasmicKarmatic (12/06/10 09:47 PM)
_________________________
I am a ghost.x
http://othermindx.blogspot.com

Top
#44701 - 12/07/10 07:57 AM Re: Service to others in Satanism [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"I am truly of the belief that if a person cannot help themselves then they are not worthy of my help."

That is a contradiction to say the least.

If they can help themselves, they don't need your help.

M.
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#44728 - 12/07/10 10:02 PM Re: Service to others in Satanism [Re: Morgan]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
member


Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
"I am truly of the belief that if a person cannot help themselves then they are not worthy of my help."

That is a contradiction to say the least.

If they can help themselves, they don't need your help.

M.


Perhaps, I should rephrase that then? If they don't have the self motivation to at least get a starting run on the bit, then I do not feel that it is my "duty" to show them in a right or better direction. If they showed that they at least had tried in some form of way to get some kind of information and offered up this information for further advice or maybe even challenge by other members of whatever community they were a part of, then I would be more likely to put thought into offering up some type of light.

However, if you cannot form that motivation to get your own "starter kit", why should I see any reason to provide it for you? These concepts are not difficult to understand and neither is a browser search system.

What are your views on the matter Morgan? Would you bother helping out someone that came here, obviously uneducated and not motivated to do their own research before asking for your advice, typing "lyk dis bout siris bizzniss lyk seelin yer soul to the devil"? Or would you tell them to do some research.. or would you simply tell them to eff off?
_________________________
I am a ghost.x
http://othermindx.blogspot.com

Top
#44730 - 12/07/10 10:12 PM try harder [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Aklo Offline
member


Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 158
 Quote:
What are your views on the matter Morgan? Would you bother helping out someone that came here, obviously uneducated and not motivated to do their own research before asking for your advice, typing "lyk dis bout siris bizzniss lyk seelin yer soul to the devil"? Or would you tell them to do some research.. or would you simply tell them to eff off?


WTF !?!

 Originally Posted By: Morgan
If you are lazy, and need help in order to properly give up your soul to Satan, I can help you for a small fee.

You would need to place $666.66 into my paypal account. Include your full name, address, place and time of birth. As well as ...


http://www.the600club.com/topic38376-1.html#Post38436

It took me like 10 seconds to find that!
_________________________
Behold, I send you forth as wolves among sheep; eat Lambchop for supper and fuck Bo Peep!

Top
#44731 - 12/07/10 10:36 PM Re: try harder [Re: Aklo]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
As a general rule, it is perfectly acceptable to assist like minds and fellow travelers in the spirit of Enlightened Self-Interest. This is the foundation of Social Contract Theory. However, 'assistance' of the White Light RHP Secular Humanist variety usually ends up as some combination of sad, pathetic, and horrifying. 12 Step programs and Tower Blocks come immediately to mind.

All too often, would-be occult practitioners of the White Light RHP Secular Humanist pseudo-wiccan variety will pass themselves off as 'satanists.' A sheep in wolf's clothing is still a sheep - even if it is black sheep.

Devotes of Modern Satanism, should, at all times, remember that TSB is founded on "Might Is Right."

Help others if it suits your purpose, but do not wear a halo because of it.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

Top
Page 1 of 3 123>


Moderator:  Woland, TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.027 seconds of which 0.001 seconds were spent on 28 queries. Zlib compression disabled.