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#47729 - 01/31/11 10:15 PM Re: Prayer - Form of greater magic? [Re: Diavolo]
myk5 Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
@Diavolo: It's cool to be dumped on for not knowing enough, I'm used to fending for myself and it's nice to be held to a higher standard.

Please, what is ONA? I'm not sure what it stands for.

The closest I ever came to true evil was in sales. And sure enough the experience is one I feel compelled to conquer rather than be conquered by. I saw folks with no morals make ten k in a day, I lose until I do better with ethics intact.

Well, a goal that would suit to inspire me is a goal that is grounded in reality that could seem remote and improbable when you committed to achieving it. I understand your goals wouldn't be my own.

I am biased against goals that aren't measurable - anyone can take magic mushrooms and decide they have evolved to a higher state than the rest of us.


Edited by myk5 (01/31/11 10:21 PM)

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#47730 - 01/31/11 10:20 PM Re: Prayer - Form of greater magic? [Re: myk5]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3893
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
The ONA is the Order of Nine Angles, given to us by one David Myatt under the nom de plume 'Anton Long'

You should probably get what google can give you, and come back with a more specific query.
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#47731 - 01/31/11 10:37 PM Re: Prayer - Form of greater magic? [Re: Dan_Dread]
myk5 Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
Ah, thanks. I have heard of it, my first impression was fairly negative because I tend to have a knee jerk reaction to something that seems purposefully esoteric.

I'll give it a more careful review this time.


Edited by myk5 (01/31/11 10:38 PM)

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#47743 - 02/01/11 01:27 AM Re: Prayer - Form of greater magic? [Re: myk5]
JWG Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 68
It's all about manipulating your reality, but when done from within, in the sense that we are changing our 'reception' of the 'raw data', it is a greater encompassing change. At the very fundamental core, our own interpretation and experience of it. That's just how I communicate the experience and process/act, however.


As for people abusing substances, I agree with you, it's not something I'm for and do not partake in that. What you are talking about, if I understand you correctly? Using a cane to make the person feel a bit sympathetic and thus increasing sales? For me, I classify that under Lower Black Magic, as it's manipulation of others to achieve what you desire.

Please let me know if I didn't touch on any of what you had concern or confusion about. Perhaps I misunderstood what your critique was altogether. These are all just my views according to my personal experience, however. I don't expect you to agree with them because I say so.
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#47748 - 02/01/11 03:46 AM Re: Prayer - Form of greater magic? [Re: JWG]
myk5 Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
I don't think changing your head can be equated with changing your reality - because that would make the mentally ill powerful and great instead of disabled. Yeah, reality is subjective, but solipsism is false. I only respect results that are concrete, verifiable and real to more people than yourself.

No, what the coaching relating to taking the cane from the old crippled woman was about was that if you allow greed to consume you, the consequences to the person you get your money from shouldn't cross your mind ...and if you can have that state of mind, you will improve your capacity to sell. He was right, but I didn't have it in me because I'm weak.

Doing the door to door sales in the rain and looking soaked and miserable at that door encouraged prospects to let you in so you could make your sales pitch. That's the low magic you had in mind.

Been reading the introduction to Satanism from the ONA folks, it is as peculiar as I remember, Satan is real to these guys too, in a way. The whole trust only other Satanists and fuck everyone else (fucking mundanes!)theme reminds me of Scientology and every other other cults where cultists are the chosen elite and everyone else is inferior. Turns me off it does. But I'll stick with it, see if there's value anywhere.


Edited by myk5 (02/01/11 04:00 AM)

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#47759 - 02/01/11 10:20 AM Re: Prayer - Form of greater magic? [Re: myk5]
Antonio Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 38
A ridiculous thing I found about the ONA is their labeling of Aleister Crowley as an "egotist". Even worse is their bashing of Thelema's roots on the eastern Kabbalah because it's not based on the western "Septenary".

I don't think there is a more egotistical and narrow minded group than this one. That said, it's a very interesting sect to understand and research.

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#47762 - 02/01/11 10:32 AM Re: Prayer - Form of greater magic? [Re: Antonio]
myk5 Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
@ Antonio:
Yeah, someone claiming the label "The Great Best" and footnoting his writing with other links to his writing - there's only humility to that? Lol.



Edited by myk5 (02/01/11 11:19 AM)

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#47768 - 02/01/11 10:49 AM Re: Prayer - Form of greater magic? [Re: myk5]
Antonio Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 38
 Originally Posted By: myk5
@ Antonio:
Yeah, someone claiming the label "The Great Best" and footnoting his writing with other links to his writing - there's only humility to that? Lol.

No, it's clearly egotistic. My point is that it's stupid and hypocritical to blame someone for this possible shortcoming when one is guilty of the same.

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#47777 - 02/01/11 11:37 AM Re: Prayer - Form of greater magic? [Re: Antonio]
myk5 Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
@Antonio : Ah, Okay.

ONA presents a very dense paradigm, uses specific and theatrical language and seems to speak a great deal of evolution without specifying what the means. The FAQ was alarming... it reminded me of a conversation I had recently with a self described Krishna Guru.

See, this Self described Krishna Guru, Krishna is very real to him and if you're not with Krishna, you're his enemy. And Krishna blesses him, so his plan - he will attract followers and take control of a part of town where cops dare not tread! He plans to sabotage the cars of the police, and to kill police that harass him or his friends. Krishna be praised!

So reading the ONA FAQ... not that dissimilar.

I'm having a hard time divining useful information, but there is a ton of it. I wonder if my efforts wouldn't be better rewarded by studying php or conversational hypnosis....

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#47820 - 02/01/11 04:43 PM Re: Prayer - Form of greater magic? [Re: myk5]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3893
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
David Myatt also promotes Islam and ran a white power group.

Satanism, Islam, and skinhead movements. Figure out the common thread and you have figured out the core of ONA.
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#47860 - 02/02/11 03:10 AM Re: Prayer - Form of greater magic? [Re: Dan_Dread]
myk5 Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
Well, the aversion to Christianity and it's Jewish roots and the thought of Jews as adversaries to the Satan, dovetails with the White Power nonsense. The Islam is very peculiar as it also has a similar Abrahamic foundation as Christianity, but without the actual Jewish writings. But what it does bring to mind is that Islam does validate the existence of Djinn, and as Djinn are in the Koran, to me it seems to favour how Satan is believed to exist in ONA.


But that's just off the top of my head from having skimmed a bit of ONA writings.

Is Anton Long and David Myatt the same person? I know they are alleged to be the same, but I know not what the evidence is unless it is tell tale stylistic similarities to the writing of each.


Edited by myk5 (02/02/11 03:24 AM)

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#47872 - 02/02/11 08:13 AM Re: Prayer - Form of greater magic? [Re: myk5]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
active member


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
 Originally Posted By: myk5
Is Anton Long and David Myatt the same person? I know they are alleged to be the same, but I know not what the evidence is unless it is tell tale stylistic similarities to the writing of each.


PM me your e-mail and I'll send you a PDF proving it.

JK
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#47904 - 02/02/11 05:20 PM Re: Prayer - Form of greater magic? [Re: myk5]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3893
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
You are looking at the form, not the substance ;\)

No one can be TOLD what the ONA is, you must see it for yourself...

Or some such nonsense.
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#47921 - 02/03/11 12:46 AM Re: Prayer - Form of greater magic? [Re: Dan_Dread]
myk5 Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
Fair enough, Dan_Dread. But while an experience may lay outside of language to describe it, the means to recreate that experience are most often accessible to language. Is there a specific writing you can recommend that can provide me with such instruction?

Generally I believe form should follow function, that it is not irrelevant.

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#47925 - 02/03/11 01:08 AM Re: Prayer - Form of greater magic? [Re: myk5]
Caladrius Offline
member


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 320
Loc: SoCal
 Originally Posted By: myk5
Is there a specific writing you can recommend that can provide me with such instruction?


Writing to provide "instructions?" To see the Essence beneath the Form? To teach you to "read between the lines?"

I would just focus on DM's writings. First read his Reichsfolk writings and pay attention to the core concepts and also to the intended audience.

Then read his Numinous Way writings and pay attention to the core concepts and also the intended audience.

Then read his old and his current ONA writings and pay attention to the core concepts and to the intended audience.

Then read his Jihadi writings and pay attention to the core concepts and to the intended audience.

After you have done that you may learn to notice that is all the same memes dressed up in different packages for specific audiences all as an attempt to eventually TRY and manifest the same "thing."

I would also suggest doing a little research on a technique in Buddhism called "Upaya," as this will help you understand the difference between Essence and Form.

Dharma ((Phenomena)) is the Essence - unwritten and wordlessly experienced/observed. The words used to describe the Dharma are approximations of the Essence: the Natural occurring phenomena. Different words and means of expression are threaded together to build a Yana ((Vehicle)). The Yana ((Form)) serve only as a means to Convey the approximation of the Essence ((dharma)) to a specific audience. Application or praxis comes after the Yana has been understood by the Upasaka.

Or in a Western way: Phenomena is the Natural occurring Essence. This Essence is observed by the scientist. To try and come to an understanding a hypothesis is formulated. This hypothesis is processed thru the Scientific Method. Theories are "produced." These theories are approximations of the wordless, Natural phenomena. Gradually related theories are put together into scientific Disciplines or Fields ((Form)) such as Biology, Zoology, Physics, Chemistry, etc. The Form - Field - causes resonance in those students who have an interest in a specific Field. By studying that Field/Form they learn to better apprehend and understand the Essence: Natural Phenomena.
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