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#47958 - 02/03/11 12:13 PM Re: Prayer - Form of greater magic? [Re: Caladrius]
myk5 Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
Caladrius, thanks.

I have noted peculiar similarity of core concepts between ONA and Numinous Way, I'm afraid jihadi writings and the Reichsfolk writing are intrinsically directed to an audience I have such an aversion to it's very difficult for me to even approach, much less give a fair hearing to.

As I explained earlier these are new ideas to me and in my pragmatism I need a sense of utility to justify the expenditure of time, attention and especially effort - and that's missing.

Just abstractly I would suggest that if what you are about is manufacturing change on so broad a scale as to be cultural shift, constructing new and interesting paradigms for fringe movements is impotent masturbation. It can be fun, but broad shifts in human culture are not moved from the fringe, especially the popularly damned fringe.

That said, thank you so much for presenting the idea in a Buddhist paradigm, I'm already getting value from that, it will be a pleasure to research "Upaya". Thank you very much.

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#47973 - 02/03/11 02:48 PM Re: Prayer - Form of greater magic? [Re: myk5]
Caladrius Offline
member


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 320
Loc: SoCal
 Originally Posted By: myk5
I'm afraid jihadi writings and the Reichsfolk writing are intrinsically directed to an audience I have such an aversion to it's very difficult for me to even approach, much less give a fair hearing to.


The aversion and strong negative sentiments in practical terms is the fuel and drive to change and/or disrupt the Enemy.

Take the Cold War as an example. The USSR and USA were disgusted at each other. Now if we were all KGB agents, and our Boss collected us to brief us on a mission and he said: "Ok KGB Agents, here's the Upaya - we hate Amerika and Amerikan Capitalism and we want to change Amarika society to be more congruent to Mother Russia and our Communist Weltanschauung. Lets do a 10 year Mission inside Amerika, pretend to be Amerikan and begin introducing our ideological memes into receptive Amerikan social groups."

Then all over us said: "We're afraid we have such an aversion to Amerika & Capitalism that it's difficult for us to even approach, much less give a fair hearing to."

The question is thus: What work gets done?

 Quote:

Just abstractly I would suggest that if what you are about is manufacturing change on so broad a scale as to be cultural shift, constructing new and interesting paradigms for fringe movements is impotent masturbation. It can be fun, but broad shifts in human culture are not moved from the fringe, especially the popularly damned fringe.


Suggest? To me? I assume you have practical experience to be suggesting things to me abstractly? Your suggestion above, is this based on a simple "intellectualization" of ideas which formed an opinion in your mind? Or is this based on actual practical experience of using and making forms? Tell me what an opinion is worth.

You state that "human culture is not moved from the fringe" as a matter of "factly." Are you suggesting to me that when Marx & Engels first drafted their ideas onto paper that the both of them and their ideas were NOT of the social fringe of their time?

Are you suggesting to me that when the early German NS party were ripping off fringe ideas of Herr Lanz that such ideas of Herr Lanz were NOT at that time of the social fringe?

HERE Watch this and pay close attention to first where the ORIGINAL idea of Lanz came from; secondly assess if such ideas of Lanz's was socially acceptable of "fringe." Thirdly pay attention to how such ideas were transformed/upaya-ed into a new Form. Fourthly pay attention to whom or what audience that Form was directed to. Lastly pay attention to the causal manifestation - the End Result... as in German Culture and people being moved.

All ideas start "somewhere" as small ideas. Just because the populous does not accept such ideas does not mean such ideas have no value or potency... unless you are suggesting that only ideas approved by popular consensus ((ad populum)) is potent? Since when was the Herd and what such Herd accepts potent? It is within the interest of a Nation-State and its Status-Quo to have their populous use impotent ideas and ideologies. These are rhetorical questions. I'm removing myself from this thread as I have address the original question I came here for.
_________________________
Chloe 352

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#47983 - 02/03/11 04:02 PM Re: Prayer - Form of greater magic? [Re: Caladrius]
myk5 Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
To be very honest I have yet to become wealthy or prominent and so I don't have results to suggest my thoughts are of any value greater than that which is self evident.

I will have such results soon, this inability to produce them now is a helpful motivator. Thank you.

My actual thought is that ideas can be disseminated to the public and hungrily consumed in the form of entertainment, and on a mass scale. But that may have something to do with the fact I have skills as an entertainer and I don't feel a need to distinguish myself as better than everyone else.


Edited by myk5 (02/03/11 04:18 PM)

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#48228 - 02/06/11 03:41 PM Re: Prayer - Form of greater magic? [Re: myk5]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: myk5
But that may have something to do with the fact I have skills as an entertainer and I don't feel a need to distinguish myself as better than everyone else.


Whenever one enters Satanism, one cannot avoid distinguishing oneself as better than everyone. There is no egalitarianism in Satanism; when considering oneself identical in value as the mass, one is a part of the mass. So yes, we distinguish ourselves as better.

As such, ONA, or at least those that know how to make the memeplex serve them instead of serving it, distinguishes itself in Satanism too. Is it a fringe movement? It might be but at the very least, it gets things done by doing.

D.

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#48509 - 02/09/11 03:23 PM Re: Prayer - Form of greater magic? [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
PsychosexySin Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 5
I think perhaps their prayer was merely a providing of their own energy,,,,that you directed through YOUR will into the situation because it was your focus at the time,,,the prayer may have been little more than an offering of force or energy from them,(as can be acheived and directed in group rituals),,to do with as you wished.ie you acted as the focus for what they provided. Essentially i think they were doing little more than providing force for you will. So NO,i don't think prayer is a form of Magic,,,,i think it is an unfocused waste of energy,,,,that could be directed towards change more effectively by either acting physically or psychologically to change the situation, or by taking that energy and directing it into the situation properly,ie a magical rite,,instead of directing it at a non existent "higher force" that u expect to solve all your problems.Thats my take on the situation anyway.

Edited by PsychosexySin (02/09/11 03:34 PM)

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