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#45399 - 12/21/10 06:59 PM Might is Right Chapter II Vs Michigan
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
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Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
This was something I was tossing around inside my head as I reading through this passage through my reading journey of MIR. Let me know what you think. I know this might not be the right area to post this. (Books and Lit maybe?)

 Originally Posted By: Might Is Right Redbeard
Blessed are the Strong for they shall possess the earth — Cursed are the weak for they
shall inherit the yoke. Blessed are the Powerful for they shall be reverenced among men
— Cursed are the Feeble for they shall be blotted out.
Blessed are the Bold for they shall be masters of the world — Cursed are the Humble for
they shall be trodden under hoofs. Blessed are the Victorious for victory is the basis of
Right — Cursed are the vanquished for they shall be vassals for ever.
Blessed are the battle-blooded, Beauty shall smile upon them — Cursed are the Poor-in-
Spirit, they shall be spat upon. Blessed are the Audacious for they have imbibed true
wisdom — Cursed are the Obedient for they shall breed Creeplings.
Blessed are the iron-handed, the unfit shall flee before them — Cursed are the haters of
battle, subjugation is their portion. Blessed are the Death-defiant, their days shall be long
in the land — Cursed are the Feeble-brained, for they shall perish amidst plenty.
Blessed are the destroyers of False-hope, they are true Messiahs — Cursed are the Godadorers,
they shall be as shorn sheep. Blessed are the Valiant for they shall obtain great
treasure — Cursed are the believers in Good and Evil for they are frightened by shadows.
- 28 -
Blessed are they who believe in Nothing — never shall it terrorize their minds — Cursed
are the ‘lambs of God,’ they shall be bled ‘whiter than snow’. Blessed is the man who
hath powerful enemies, they shall make him a hero — Cursed is he who “doeth good”
unto others, he shall be despised.
Blessed is the man whose foot is swift to serve a friend, he is a friend indeed — Cursed
are the organizers of Charities, they are propagators of plagues. Blessed are the Wise and
Brave for in the Struggle they shall win — Cursed are the Unfit for they shall be
righteously exterminated.
Blessed are the sires of Noble maidens, they are the salt of the earth — Cursed the
mothers of strumous Tenderlings for they shall be shamed. Blessed are the mightyminded
for they shall ride the whirl-winds — Cursed are they who teach Lies for Truth,
and Truth for Lies, for they are — abomination.
Blessed are the unmerciful, THEIR posterity shall own the world — Cursed are the Pitiful
for they shall receive no pity. Blessed are the destroyers of Idols, for they shall be feared
by tyrants — Cursed are the famous Wiselings, their seed shall perish off the earth.
Thrice cursed are the Vile for they shall serve and suffer.


These are all things, as Satanists (or predators), that we should and do agree with. Might is right, the ability to stand up for oneself and defend one's beliefs and perspectives. The idea that we prey on the ones that cannot fend for themselves.

Now, the reason I put "vs Michigan". I see a lot of the underlings, or who would be considered underlings (prey) controlling the state of Michigan's government. The people that win the votes (even here in the USA in general) are those who want extended welfare, they want to be fed by the government without repaying what they are taking from those citizens that are working their asses off to make sure that they can survive WITHOUT these welfares.

I challenge the ideas that I have quoted from Might is Right in the way of Michigan. It is unfortunate, but especially in Michigan, it is the ones that make up the majority that make the rules. The majority happens to be the unproductive wastes that throw only those into government that will bend to their wills and do what they want for them so that they don't have to work or get educated.

There are many that I know that use the welfare system as a means not to do anything with their lives. I, for one, would rather work 80 hours a week at a shit job to be able to buy my children what they need than sit and do nothing. Even more so there are those that use their own children (!) and gather the SSI benefits from their own and use it to their own advantage. It's sick but true.

I think that while the quoted above should be the truth, as long as the majority of the world (at least the state) are power hungry psychic vampires, it will make it hard to become a reality.

With that being said, I will acknowledge those that are on SSI or welfare for the right reasons. Unfortunately, there are not many here and it is taken advantage of on many occasions.

This is not all that I thought of the book but it was something I gave thought to.


Edited by OrgasmicKarmatic (12/21/10 07:01 PM)
_________________________
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#45400 - 12/21/10 07:24 PM Re: Might is Right Chapter II Vs Michigan [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Simon Jester Offline
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Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 36
RE Welfare: I, personally, have a great deal of admiration for anyone who has the cunning and ability to take advantage of the welfare system. There is nothing noble in slavery - you are entitled to labor 80 hours a week if you are unable to divert and swindle the government coffers. \:\)

Identity fraud is a very lucrative business, and I am certain that Ragnar would have employed similar methods if they were open to him.

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#45405 - 12/21/10 08:40 PM Re: Might is Right Chapter II Vs Michigan [Re: Simon Jester]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
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Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
I thought there might be someone that would bring up someone who is "smart enough" to take advantage of the welfare system. There is a difference between those who can swindle the government of extra money even though they are working and receiving other benefits from the government on top of it and those who purposely stay in the system just so they can avoid working a whole 8 hours and making an honest dollar.

I do not think that those that use the system in a way that it should not be used should be revered as "smart" or "savvy" because they are also spending MY hard earned dollars in the process. They tax the hell out of my checks that I use honestly to support my family. I think that putting yourself out there, getting a job and being productive in the community is far more valuable than to be a criminal and misuse something that was set up only for those who are trying to get back on their feet in a time of need.

There is no honor in dishonesty.
_________________________
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http://othermindx.blogspot.com

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#45409 - 12/21/10 09:17 PM Re: Might is Right Chapter II Vs Michigan [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1725
Loc: New York
You both have a point.

In one sense, a person might deserve some credit for having the brains and motivation to swindle the government for an easy life style, without having to work for it.

On the other hand, as a person who also works like a slave to support myself, and have bottom feeders using my tax dollars for their benefit pisses me off to no extent.
Yet, sometimes I wonder if perhaps I am the fool for not doing the same thing. Even when I could have used the assistance I chose to eat old potatoes and nothing else for almost a month because I felt too proud to ask for welfare or even to go to the food bank. (The little money mainly in change form that I had I used to buy cat food).

What I do see in most instances is that those that are on welfare are not geniuses who use the tit of the government because they squander the opportunity that they have to better themselves. Most often they sit on their ass, spend their benefits on drugs and ruin their surrounding physical environment.
I have a friend who is on “Disability,” because he could never hold a job and was found by the court to be unable to support himself due to mental illness.
I’ve known this person for almost thirty years and originally the only mental illness that he had was laziness and the inability to handle any kind of authority.
He thinks that he has it made now because he doesn’t have to lift a finger to help himself and gets enough money to sit in his rented house, watching television all day. He has finally become the mental case that he allowed himself to be talked into.
Then he wonders why his wife has lost all respect for him and left him, and why no woman wants to have anything to do with him. He also has the audacity to complain that the government doesn’t give him enough.

Even though I work at a job that I hate and often feel like a slave, I still wouldn’t want to change places with that guy. It gives me comfort to know that what ever I have, I earned for myself and that I do not owe any gratitude to anyone buy myself and that I am my own person (while not at work).

There are a few exceptions to the welfare leeches. The ones who use the opportunity to go to school on the government’s dime and eventually get to a position where they can support themselves.

Once someone accepts hand outs and becomes dependent on them, they are not cunning and successful but instead are bottom feeders and slaves who deserve nothing but contempt.
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

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#45412 - 12/21/10 10:22 PM Re: Might is Right Chapter II Vs Michigan [Re: Asmedious]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
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Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
 Quote:
In one sense, a person might deserve some credit for having the brains and motivation to swindle the government for an easy life style, without having to work for it.


Yes, the ability to be a criminal and not get caught.. very creditable. \:\)

 Quote:
Yet, sometimes I wonder if perhaps I am the fool for not doing the same thing. Even when I could have used the assistance I chose to eat old potatoes and nothing else for almost a month because I felt too proud to ask for welfare or even to go to the food bank. (The little money mainly in change form that I had I used to buy cat food).


I have also been in this position. Not with my cats necessarily but I knew having children at a young age, I would have to go without so that they did not also. This being mentioned I do have to say that my children are on Medicaid. For which, I am grateful because if it weren't for that, man, I'd be in more debt than I already am. \:\)

Is it pride that stops us from accepting these benefits? Perhaps but I think there is a legitimacy in going without and still going on. I know I feel fantastic when instead of buying that pack of smokes with my last dollar, I buy my daughter snow pants or shoes. \:\)

 Quote:
What I do see in most instances is that those that are on welfare are not geniuses who use the tit of the government because they squander the opportunity that they have to better themselves. Most often they sit on their ass, spend their benefits on drugs and ruin their surrounding physical environment.


Which I guess is their repayment for not doing anything with their lives right?

I also have an ex-friend on disability. He's on it for the similar reason on not being able to hold down a job. However, this person spent 5 months working on a cruise ship. His incessant phone calls of how he "just couldn't handle it anymore" and "wanted to come home" just equated to me that it wasn't a disability that caused him not to be able to hold onto a job but his unwillingness to work.


 Quote:
There are a few exceptions to the welfare leeches. The ones who use the opportunity to go to school on the government’s dime and eventually get to a position where they can support themselves.


Unfortunately, working at a community college myself, I see maybe 35% (my own guess) actually using this money to better themselves. Much more of them prefer to use it on buy Gucci.. The community college that I work at has the graduation rate of, are you ready for this, 25%. Ridiculous, no?





 Quote:
Even though I work at a job that I hate and often feel like a slave, I still wouldn’t want to change places with that guy. It gives me comfort to know that what ever I have, I earned for myself and that I do not owe any gratitude to anyone buy myself and that I am my own person (while not at work).


This personally makes me think of one of my favorite quotes:

 Originally Posted By: Nietzsche
No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.
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http://othermindx.blogspot.com

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#45424 - 12/22/10 03:49 AM Re: Might is Right Chapter II Vs Michigan [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Harvey Offline
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Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 39
 Quote:
Yes, the ability to be a criminal and not get caught.. very creditable.


Prisons are populated by idiots, incompetents and overly ambitious entrepreneurs. Successful "crime" is happy speculation. \:\)

Ragnar was quite astute in asserting that financial dependence is flaming hell. Obviously, this dependence could take the form of welfare and wage slave. It's all in the application.

 Quote:
I do not think that those that use the system in a way that it should not be used should be revered as "smart" or "savvy" because they are also spending MY hard earned dollars in the process.


There is a vast gap between white trash drug addicts and the savvy fraud. I cannot reasonably condemn a person for bilking the welfare biz. It's so asinine - feeling cheated because of an inoperative (and unprofitable) sense of propriety.

There are plenty of methods to skirt crippling, punitive taxation. Do you think your outlook might differ if you relaxed your scruples? Your bank balance almost certainly would. \:\)

In my experience, the poor are only in that position because they fail to recognize and take advantage of those opportunities that are right in front of them. This is applied darwinism, not just lip service.


Edited by Harvey (12/22/10 03:56 AM)

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#45430 - 12/22/10 05:00 AM Re: Might is Right Chapter II Vs Michigan [Re: Harvey]
TV is God Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 273
Loc: The Cornhole
 Originally Posted By: Harvey
In my experience, the poor are only in that position because they fail to recognize and take advantage of those opportunities that are right in front of them. This is applied darwinism, not just lip service.

That may be true in your experiences and is likely a very large chunk of the poor population however I firmly believe that in the opportunities to not be poor are much fewer than the non-poor seem to believe. The two big factors are what opportunities exist in your location and what you have given to you.

People like to look at the unemployed and assume they're all just lazy people who refuse to work for their money and would rather live off handouts. I'm not saying that isn't a good chunk of them but the fact is some places have a lot more people than jobs. People who already have their foot in the door seem to have quite an easy time looking down their noses at those who weren't lucky enough to have the same opportunity. Nobody likes to acknowledge how much chance has factored into their success.

That second factor is a big one. Nobody likes to acknowledge how much of their success is given to them rather than earned. The middle class and the rich almost always pop out kids that don't go poor and don't for a second consider the likelihood that they would be if mommy and daddy didn't pay their way.

In the economic and social environment of a america right now there's very little chance to earn much of anything. If you have the opportunity to earn you either won the job lottery or had it given to you because of a preexisting connections you inherited.


For those who may think I may be just justifying my own position-
Yes I am poor by our societies standards but I get by with a little bit extra and I've been worse off in the past.

There are times when I would not have considered myself poor but the middle class would. If I pay my bills and buy cheap food for a month and still have a hundred or more left over I don't dare call myself poor. That is comfortable living in my opinion.

Yes I earn my living independently working a job. Although I'm the only person I know that will acknowledge and admit the reasons I have a job are chance and social connection. When chance was not on my side I went through a period living on a friend's couch eating nothing but ramen for a few months. I would have been homeless if not for social connection.

I am a wise thrifty spender with very inexpensive desires in life. I don't go out drinking and I certainly don't spend a dime on drugs. I don't gamble and I eat cheap enough to make a middle class person sick.
I have never collected unemployment or welfare.

I have mixed feelings about the ideas of welfare type programs and can't say I have a solid political opinion on the subject. I will say this, the fact that big business and government reward stupidity as much as possible is the reason for both why so many are poor and why the poor are often leaches.


Edited by TV is God (12/22/10 05:03 AM)

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#45433 - 12/22/10 06:50 AM Re: Might is Right Chapter II Vs Michigan [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
The people on welfare are not stealing your money; someone is giving it to them.

Every life-form will try to maximize its dominance on their environment (limited by their biology). Although human society is more complex than other life-forms, the same mechanic is at work here, at every level of human interaction.

In politics it is very obvious. Whenever there is a target group someone can benefit from, someone will take benefit of it. If the group of poor will be large enough, someone will appear and use this base to gain dominance themselves. That, in gaining this dominance, they will benefit one group at the expense of another, is not their concern; it is merely a side-effect. Their only concern is gaining more dominance, even when this inherit drive might be unknown to them, and they are under the illusion of doing the right thing.

Those on welfare have no say in it; they are nothing but a resource, as are those paying to welfare. It is only those that utilize this resource who affirm that might is right.

D.

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#45467 - 12/22/10 08:25 PM Re: Might is Right Chapter II Vs Michigan [Re: Asmedious]
Simon Jester Offline
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Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 36
 Quote:
On the other hand, as a person who also works like a slave to support myself, and have bottom feeders using my tax dollars for their benefit pisses me off to no extent.
Yet, sometimes I wonder if perhaps I am the fool for not doing the same thing. Even when I could have used the assistance I chose to eat old potatoes and nothing else for almost a month because I felt too proud to ask for welfare or even to go to the food bank. (The little money mainly in change form that I had I used to buy cat food).


I can definitely relate to that. I could NEVER accept any form of hand out. But I would not necessarily be opposed to collecting benefits from deceased or fictitious people [the government is a soft target for identity fraudsters]. \:\)

I onece knew an 80-odd YO dame. She was running quite a racket - collecting multiple payments for people no longer alive. She had deeded various properties to herself over the years, and never gave her birth name - so far as I know. For all appearances a nice old pensioner, until she died and the facts became known: she had not worked a day in her life, was fabulously well to do, had accumulated a massive property portfolio and may have been a multiple murderer - never determined.

I revere that crazy broad. She taught me the value of distrust.

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#45473 - 12/23/10 01:35 AM Re: Might is Right Chapter II Vs Michigan [Re: Simon Jester]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
member


Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
The people on welfare are not stealing your money; someone is giving it to them.


This is quite true. The government plays a heavy hand in this folly as well. Unfortunately, like I said in the OP, the majority runs the government and the majority here are those that misuse the system.

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Their only concern is gaining more dominance, even when this inherit drive might be unknown to them, and they are under the illusion of doing the right thing.


While this may also be true. There is yet another sect that does it on the pretense of pure selfishness. If you can afford a Gucci coat and not food the problem seems to me is that your priorities are completely fucked. If you are having trouble eating because of the designer look, maybe you need more than government assistance to guide you to self sufficiency.

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Those on welfare have no say in it; they are nothing but a resource, as are those paying to welfare. It is only those that utilize this resource who affirm that might is right.


So we have come to the conclusion that neither recipient nor worker is at fault but the government? Please correct if I am wrong. However, the government is controlled (at least at state level) by majority.. if the majority is only out to misuse the system, then the government is merely the toy that is being used.

 Originally Posted By: SimonJester
I onece knew an 80-odd YO dame. She was running quite a racket - collecting multiple payments for people no longer alive. She had deeded various properties to herself over the years, and never gave her birth name - so far as I know. For all appearances a nice old pensioner, until she died and the facts became known: she had not worked a day in her life, was fabulously well to do, had accumulated a massive property portfolio and may have been a multiple murderer - never determined.


Oh my. Yes, I think I have been rendered speechless.

 Originally Posted By: Harvey
Ragnar was quite astute in asserting that financial dependence is flaming hell. Obviously, this dependence could take the form of welfare and wage slave. It's all in the application.


Well yes and I guess it is in the eye of the beholder which way is the more productive and personally appeasing way to do it.

 Originally Posted By: Harvey
In my experience, the poor are only in that position because they fail to recognize and take advantage of those opportunities that are right in front of them. This is applied darwinism, not just lip service.


In my experience, those who are poor are poor for many different reasons from not being able to find a job to not being able to work because of injury to being a lazy asshole. Many bums profit much larger than I do in my own job on a daily basis but that doesn't mean that I am going to take the advantage of dressing out of what I deem my status is as a person and wander around in the cold begging for loose change.

And this afternoon, after reading TVisGod's response to the thread.. I have nothing more to say. It was excellently written with sincerity and I admire it. And that's not lip service; that's fact.


Edited by OrgasmicKarmatic (12/23/10 01:37 AM)
Edit Reason: grammar correction
_________________________
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#45477 - 12/23/10 05:39 AM Re: Might is Right Chapter II Vs Michigan [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I don't really see where the majority rules.

The political caste is a minority. Even when some of them might represent a majority of the populus, at no point the populus has actual control in ruling. As such, it is, was and will be a minority that rules.

In democracy, the method to become part of the political caste, or to get ahead in their hierarchy, is voting, and although people confuse their vote with actual power, it hardly is. Voting however does degenerate politics because it forces the political caste to downgrade their program, at least temporarily, to get as many as possible. This might give people the illusion their vote matters but fundamentally it is nothing but the dominant utilizing a resource to gain more dominance.

D.

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#45525 - 12/23/10 05:59 PM Re: Might is Right Chapter II Vs Michigan [Re: TV is God]
Clarence Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 61
 Originally Posted By: TV is God
 Originally Posted By: Harvey
In my experience, the poor are only in that position because they fail to recognize and take advantage of those opportunities that are right in front of them. This is applied darwinism, not just lip service.

That may be true in your experiences and is likely a very large chunk of the poor population however I firmly believe that in the opportunities to not be poor are much fewer than the non-poor seem to believe. The two big factors are what opportunities exist in your location and what you have given to you.


I left home with a change of clothes, a couple hundred bucks and a mind full of Redbeard, Sade, Nietzche, Shaw, Celine etc. My only real advantage was a state of unconcern. I Knew things would work out. And they just did.

Having no skills whatsoever, I started laboring. It was the most hopeless experience of my life, but it paid well [like 100k]. I saved my coin - progressing through Stevedore [200k on 12 hr days], Dump Truck driver etc etc. I was not "gifted" any of these positions. I did not know anyone involved. I did, however, research high pay entry level jobs in the most lucrative industries and locations and went after them.[Hint: the net Bubba. Use it!] I am now self sufficient.

People always complain that there are only limited opportunities to accumulate wealth. I will concede that those opportunities are limited by how reluctant a person is to research and persue them.

PS. I had this branded on my forearm as a totem of sorts:

 Quote:
He who is without wealth amidst unlimited quantities of it, is either a coward, a born slave, or a lunatic... R.R.

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#45532 - 12/23/10 06:45 PM Re: Might is Right Chapter II Vs Michigan [Re: Clarence]
TV is God Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 273
Loc: The Cornhole
I think you fail to acknowledge the luck of having jobs available. When I was without a dime I had a roof over my head with the only person I knew that would have me. I have a good work record and applied at literally every business in the whole town. I did everything right when it comes to job application. The fact is there simply wasn't anyone hiring.
I was very ready and willing to work a laborious shitty job but that didn't change the fact that there simply weren't any to be had. When the a job opened I jumped right in and though my job is not difficult I can say with confidence I'm the best damn worker they have.
I wouldn't say I'm currently too "wealthy" but I get by okay and I wouldn't have had any of it if I didn't proceed with the attitude of not taking no for an answer.

Your success story is inspiring and I'd go as far as to say admirable but the disbelief that circumstances can't prevent someone from being in the same position is nothing but an ego boost.

But keep in mind I'm also quite young and it takes a lot of time and dedication to attain wealth. In my own ways I'm slowly stepping upward in the world. I never take what I have for granted and I'm never giving up the chance at a better life. But if things stayed as they are forever I wouldn't feel like I'm a failure by any means.


Edited by TV is God (12/23/10 06:49 PM)

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#45536 - 12/23/10 07:17 PM Re: Might is Right Chapter II Vs Michigan [Re: TV is God]
Clarence Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 61
If opportunities are scarce, move. Walk, hitch, steal a horse... whatever.

I had to travel 6000 miles to land a shitty laboring job. Having bugger-all cash, I mostly hitched. The people who ran the place were desperate for good workers - and more than happy to supply food and lodgings [and loads of green].

Barring mental retardation and gross physical defects, I really can't imagine an insurmountable obstacle. If I were from a country void of industry I would be a thief, pirate or fraud. That's just me. Adapt and profit. ;\)

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