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#45470 - 12/23/10 12:16 AM Luciferian types
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
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Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
**Note: Most Luciferians do NOT consider themselves Satanists**
**Luciferians tend to be more focused on self empowerment through the Light Bearer (Lucifer) via mind, progression and personally will power.**
**Also, most Luciferians do NOT see Lucifer and Satan as one and the same entity.**


"Traditional/Theistic" - From my understanding, it is much like the Theist Satanist. The traditional opting to worship and revere Lucifer as an deity. Doing more research it originates from Germany in the late 1200s. This sect had a particularly harsh history to becoming persecuted for their beliefs that Lucifer was cast down from the heavens unjustly. Ending in a bloody mess in which many were killed.

"Modern" - These friendly guys run with a more panentheistic crowd. Panentheistics, of course, identifying Lucifer as something we are a part of, not necessarily that Lucifer is a part of us. An example of this type of Luciferian would be The Church of Lucifer by Mr. Ford.

"Pantheistic" Luciferianism - Blurring the lines for a lot of people out there that do not understand the difference between Pantheism and Panentheism (note the en), Lucifer tends to be seen as something that is a part of everything; including ourselves. I would call this more of a autotheistic viewpoint but I am not a Luciferian so, I may be wrong in that aspect.

Spiritual Luciferian - Those that believe that Lucifer is most represented in the material world. "Prince of this level". Though, as I read, it doesn't seem like this is a theistic pathway more than it is another way of Pantheism.

Philosophical Luciferian - From my understanding, these guys do not really put much more into Lucifer except that he, as the light bearer, allows them to understand that the process and journey of life is in self enlightenment and self progression. They often believe that life is in constant evolution and their part in it, is to make progressions in the world via themselves. (Hurrum, sound familiar to anyone?)

Lately I have also seen this one turn up..

Self styled/Independent Luciferians - Some have their own names for it. Such as Mabon who has adapted Monadic (I'm sorry if I misspelt this Mabon.) Which does make sense because Monad IS the basic principle of "god" in Luciferianism.. He also refers to himself as a self styled seemingly borrowing from other things around him.

In conclusion, I may have interpreted some of this wrong and I am sure that Mabon will point out anything I may have missed. However, the many Luciferians that I have ran across having more interest in hedonism and self progression through sometimes unnatural ways, are generally nice and intelligent people who like to make progressions through their life and others via Lucifer aka the Light Bearer. I think that many of these would be set to be great teachers throughout their journeys.

If anyone is interested, I DID come across some links of Luciferian churches of sorts:

Church Of Lucifer

Neo-Luciferian Church

Church of Adversarial Light


Edited by OrgasmicKarmatic (12/23/10 12:21 AM)
Edit Reason: link edits.x.
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#45483 - 12/23/10 06:26 AM Re: Luciferian types [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
mabon2010 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ OrgasmicKarmatic

You have done some excellent research there.

I will open with a link to some statements made by SugaCubez of MySatan whose permission I gained to reproduce on my own site.

Luciferianism has a long and ancient history, much of it underground due to Church prejudice, and a desire to keep secret knowledge out of the hands of the great unwashed. The focus of this old school type of Luciferianism was the secret societies, rituals and mystical knowledge. The Neo-Luciferian Church is a long established entity that expresses the outlook of the old school form of Luciferianism.

The new school of Luciferianism are all those that are more open in their Luciferianism, pushed into the light by the advances of the internet and the decline in the influence of Christianity. The Church of Adversarial Light or the Ordo Luciferi are examples of these.

If one moves outside of the dogmatic and restrictive old school of Luciferianism one finds there are not much in the way that is concrete to hold onto, so the new types of Luciferianism can seem new-age, hippy or like scientology, as I have heard some people observe.

Outside of old school it is open to the likes of Michael Ford to reinterpret what Luciferianism is, to set it in a new direction in the manner that Anton LaVey did with Satanism.

Personally I found the Luciferianism available did not satisfy my needs, forcing me to forge my own path, that I call Monadic Luciferianism. This processs reflects that of Satanists who feel Laveyan Satanism no longer satisfies their needs, and are heading off in new directions.

Like the many who commented on my attempts to define Satanism into types, one should only use Luciferian types as a reference point, since I can fit into at least three of the named Luciferian types that has been mentioned.

I am of the opinion that rather than hedonism the Luciferian is more of the Epicurean outlook, looking to the quality of their lives rather than to satisfy their beast within with carnal pleasures. I don't drink, or smoke, or take drugs, but I will surround myself with beautiful works of art and of beauty.

The Luciferians have many common grounds, things like reincarnation is accepted as a matter of fact, though in Satanist circles that could be the subject of a fight.

I will finish with a quote by SugaCubez of MySatan for people interested in Luciferianism:

 Quote:
"I think people are just looking in the wrong places in this case. "Luciferians" - contemporary ones - today are a small group of people, compared to Spiritual, Theistic, and Symbolical Satanists. So its expected for the much smaller group - having no real guide - would follow the Satanists around to look for "Luciferian" things. Which is not looking in the right place."


Edited by mabon2010 (12/23/10 06:29 AM)
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#45585 - 12/24/10 02:55 PM Re: Luciferian types [Re: mabon2010]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1646
Loc: Orlando, FL
I don't think it would be entirely accurate to define it in such a concise manner. Luciferianism is primarily a label, not a coherent doctrine or school of thought.

Luciferianism is a word that has been used to describe a wide range of ideas. In the past, it has either been used as a byword for diabolism (as in the decadent Luciferian movement in 19th-century France), or in a lighter view, as a blanket term for the Western Mystery Tradition as a whole (as used by Freemasons, Hermeticists, etc.) Personally I am inclined towards the latter view, although I view diabolism as an essential part of western occultism, along with the "lighter aspects".

Even in modern times there is no general consensus, as it can refer to anything from Gnostic ideologies (in traditional occult orders such as the OTO) to what is more or less Satanism with a different label (as is the case with Michael Ford.)
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#45896 - 01/03/11 11:50 PM Re: Luciferian types [Re: The Zebu]
Mindmaster Offline
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Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 68
Loc: Detroit, MI
Just to chime in with a theistic Satanism viewpoint (tm) typically most of us do not view the equation Satan = Lucifer to hold any merit. We neither accept Christian definitions of "Satan" or ideas associated, nor attempts to graft that energy nor archetype to another "form". When you're talking traditional Satanists vs Luciferians I guess all the faith issues count? \:\) Typically, Lucifer is not in our vocabulary at all really but to probably someone who is a Christian they're probably all the same thing. I let the Christians define their religion the way they like, so I will take that liberty with mine. Pantheism is really a bad word with most Traditional Satanists who if they believe in demon(s)(or the gods they used to be) as parts of Satan and by extension possibly hold rites to them as well. But, this practice isn't much different than Catholic celebrations of various saints and whatnot. Worship is probably a crappy word for what most theistic Satanists would do anyway. There is no master-servant relationship, but rather an intensely personal spiritual partnership but a focus on bringing forth the particular energies which we desire in our lives and this just happens to be one of the many ways. Devotion, prayer, and ritual magic are all ways to facilitate communication to that power but so is critical thinking and research as well. Perhaps the oddest part of a spiritual Satanic path is that we haven't turned off our thought patterns.

In many ways, and with no disrespect meant many of us traditional types sort of see Luciferianism as Satanism for scaredy cats. There is really not much difference to me between it and other Greco-Roman revivals except for the names and smatterings of self-deification, etc. I've read a great deal on it and it just seems too wiccan-like for my tastes (in many cases, after reading some of Ford's books really it just being very familiar wiccan rites with Luciferian themes tacked on top). As with many revivals I think that anyone is entitled to do what they wish really as finding historical references to shore up your belief system is always a silly game and in the end doesn't even matter so long as you're happy.

Man, see what happens when you find the one theist chillin' on the board.. haha..

Take care folks,

-Mind


Edited by Mindmaster (01/03/11 11:54 PM)

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#45907 - 01/04/11 11:34 AM Re: Luciferian types [Re: Mindmaster]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1646
Loc: Orlando, FL
Ford's work isn't really "Wiccan"... it's like it's trying to be Sabbatic Witchcraft with LaVey drizzled on top (but ends up looking more like a muddled hodgepodge of disparate rituals and shock imagery with some self-improvement nonsense about "Luciferian Excellence" thrown in at the last second to make it all seem intelligent.) But yeah...

You are right about many Luciferians being too "scared" of the word Satan. Some occultists like Nigel Jackson will go on and on about fallen angels, witch-sabbats, Azazel, Lilith, and Shaitan, but then end up looking rather silly trying to insist that all this has NOTHING to do with that dreaded 'S' word, "Satanism". The Left Hand Path does get a bad rap as being the younger, brattier crowd, but every sect has its stereotypes, and looking past that there is a sound and legitimate method to it all.

However, most seem to think that "Lucifer" is a "euphemism" for Satan. This may be true for some people, but Lucifer has been the most predominant name for the Prince of Darkness in the history of the western world, "Satan" only coming in second. In many medieval stories, for instance, it was Lucifer that ruled over Hell, with Satan being a lesser devil of sorts. We see the same sort of hierarchy repeated in the Solomonic grimoires. It wasn't until the last century or two that the latter name became more popular.

As I seem to keep on saying, it all comes down to labels, which leads me to my next point.

"Satan" is a Jewish theological term to denote the lackey angel of Yahweh who does all his dirty work and still gets the paddle at the end of the day. "Satan" must always have "Yahweh" around to have meaning, because Satan is THE ADVERSARY... of Yahweh and the Jewish People. Were the Hebrew God and his devotees to not exist, Satan would have no purpose. "Satan-ISM" can be a useful term from time to time, but ultimately it makes little sense to define your philosophy based on what you are against.

"Lucifer", on the other hand, denotes the shift in meaning that occurred when theologians tried to graft Satan into the still-Christianising European Mythos. The Church Fathers presented a picture of a miserable fiend bound in hell that is ultimately trampled over and defeated-- but this was lost in translation. The Devil merged with various other mythological figures; Odin, Prometheus, Hel, Pwcca, Apollo; to create the image of Lucifer, the Sovereign of the Abyss, Patron of Sorcery, God of the Witches, at once Prince of Heaven and King of Hell. Lucifer denotes the strange blend of Christian and Pagan ideas that, in my view, best embodies the proud, antinomian nature of the Left-Hand-Path.

Satan (or Lucifer) in my opinion, is mankind's attempt to explain the Sinister force in nature through narrative and mythology.

I cannot endorse theism, Diabolical or otherwise, with any certainty because it implies a personal relationship with inhuman forces of nature that cannot possibly relate to us on any level. Think Lovecraft here.

If there is a spiritual entity flawed and finite enough to actually care about me as a speck of carbon floating in the chaos of the cosmos, he is not worthy of my devotion.


Edited by The Zebu (01/04/11 11:36 AM)
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#45916 - 01/04/11 03:44 PM Re: Luciferian types [Re: The Zebu]
mabon2010 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
Speaking as a Luciferian, I, and many Luciferians would reject any connection between the Lucifer archetype and the Satan archetype.

Satanists and Christians can argue as much as they like but their argument Lucifer = Satan will never fit.

The word Lucifer is a mistake that Jerome made when he translated the Hebrew Bible into the Latin, and one sees how in Hebrew the Morning Star is "shining one, son of the dawn" has no identification with the Latin "Light Bearer".

There is only two mentions of Lucifer in the entire Bible, one for Jesus, and the other for a King of Babylon.

In the end it is down to the individual Luciferian to take what little there is for the Lucifer archetype and paint their own interpretation upon it.

I found my interpretation in Neoplatonism, so for me Lucifer = Logos. If Anton LaVey is the inspiration of Laveyan Satanism, Plotinus will be the inspiration for my version of Luciferianism.
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#45921 - 01/04/11 06:02 PM Re: Luciferian types [Re: The Zebu]
Mindmaster Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 68
Loc: Detroit, MI
-snipping due to agreement \:\) -
 Originally Posted By: The Zebu

I cannot endorse theism, Diabolical or otherwise, with any certainty because it implies a personal relationship with inhuman forces of nature that cannot possibly relate to us on any level. Think Lovecraft here.

If there is a spiritual entity flawed and finite enough to actually care about me as a speck of carbon floating in the chaos of the cosmos, he is not worthy of my devotion.


I think 'traditional' Satanism isn't the type of path most people can follow. Firstly, it requires you to personally determine your pantheon for the most part. Secondly, you must actively develop your relationship with those forces. Thirdly, there is a time issue; you must learn to properly meditate and control your facilities. Just to get started is to have spent several years in introspection determining just what name of Satan means to you.

This is definitely not for the masses who want a fast food religion. You can't just pick up a book and join, nor can you put on some dark clothes and you're in. We do not have any places to toss the babies into the river and wave hands over them either. You're really not 'in' until you have been along the path for several years and moreover no one can really help you do any of the work. You'll know when you're making headway, but the rest of the world really wont nor will it care.

Arguing the point with the road scholars is also a complete waste of time. They'll never do the work so they only have what other people would have been nice enough to leave them. You can fill your mind with the endless tripe of other mens rants and still know NOTHING that's the danger of not jumping in the pool yourself once awhile. So I guess this is a large part of my personal motivation and right or wrong it's at least an honest exploration.

As far as spiritual entities as to the nature of which only I can speculate I would say that honestly it doesn't matter whether they are beings or parts of yourself that you are addressing and working with. They behave as independent aspects and it is much easier to communicate with them in that fashion. The human mind is wired with a fascination for ritual, prayer, and art. Whether you're talking to someone else or yourself is irrelevant.

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#45931 - 01/05/11 02:13 AM Re: Luciferian types [Re: mabon2010]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1646
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
Speaking as a Luciferian, I, and many Luciferians would reject any connection between the Lucifer archetype and the Satan archetype.


But wouldn't the Serpent of Eden-- originally Satan to the Jews and Christians, but reinterpreted as the vessel of the Logos in Gnostic scripture-- serve as a connection between the two archetypes? I admit they are different, but to state there is no connection whatsoever isn't accurate.

 Quote:
The word Lucifer is a mistake that Jerome made when he translated the Hebrew Bible into the Latin, and one sees how in Hebrew the Morning Star is "shining one, son of the dawn" has no identification with the Latin "Light Bearer".


True, the name "Lucifer" itself came about as a mistake. But before the development of Christian European mythos, "Lucifer" as an entity proper was only a minor divinity associated with the planet Venus as it was seen rising. It was also a title used as a peripheral epithet for numerous gods such as Apollo, Helios, and Hermes.

What I am getting at, is that before the middle ages, the name Lucifer never had any great singular importance. Nobody ever ascribed any system of thought to "Lucifer" until the term "Luciferian" arose to describe the adherents of the catholic Saint Lucifer, and later, as the Devil archetype set in, it became a term for Satanic practices. Even the more esoteric-minded Freemasons like Albert Pike, who first tried to reclaim the title as symbol of spiritual enlightenment, acknowledged its "diabolic" origins.

 Quote:
If Anton Lavey is the inspiration of Laveyan Satanism, Plotinus will be the inspiration for my version of Luciferianism


But Anton LaVey wrote down a system of ideas and clearly labeled it "Satanism". Plotinus, to the best of my knowledge, never used the word "Lucifer" to fundamentally describe any of his central ideas.

If you are a Neoplatonist, then why don't you simply call yourself such? Or just call yourself a Gnostic?

Don't get me wrong, you can call yourself a Luciferian by all means if you feel the word accurately describes your philosophy. But on the other hand, it shouldn't put you off that other people decide to use the term as well, especially if they have good reason to.

This is all like that age-old squabble over whether or not Satanism "existed" before LaVey, or if Devil-Worshipers can be called Satanists. At the end of the day, we all march to the beat of our own drums, but if we are to facilitate any useful communication between two people, they sometimes must compromise and be open to the multiple shades of meaning to a word.


Edited by The Zebu (01/05/11 02:17 AM)
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#45932 - 01/05/11 06:51 AM Re: Luciferian types [Re: The Zebu]
mabon2010 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ The Zebu

You have revealed a major influence on Luciferianism - the Gnostics, and using their ideas it could be argued that Lucifer and Satan are close as you say.

I have headed down another route, my emerging philosophy is in opposition to much of the Gnostic ideas. I mentioned that Plotinus was an "influence" upon me, but I never said it was Luciferianism. What I have done is pulled in Plotinus and other philosopher ideas and hung those ideas on the Lucifer archetype.

Lucifer is like a coat hook I guess, and due to its lack of "back story" one can hang any coat upon it, there are even Christians claiming Lucifer is Jesus based upon a New Testament mention of the name. So some mix Satan with Lucifer, which the likes of Michael Ford have done, and I mix Neoplatonist ideas making Logos=Lucifer.

What I call Monadic Luciferianism is neither Gnosticism, much which I reject, nor strictly pure Neoplatonist, since I include many other ideas and interpretations.

Neoplatonism and Gnosticism have had a history of conflict between them, and it appears Gnostic ideas are the ones that are most influential in Luciferianism. It is possible I could launch a challenge and swing Luciferianism towards a Neoplatonist outlook as opposed to the Gnostic versions with a new modern path.

As this site says of Neoplatonism "Yet for all its influence, it is surprising how little it is in evidence on the electronic frontier of the Net itself." Unfortunate.

At the end of the day there are many interpretations and paths in Luciferianism as there are in Satanism.


Edited by mabon2010 (01/05/11 06:58 AM)
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#45943 - 01/05/11 02:40 PM Re: Luciferian types [Re: mabon2010]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
If I may ask; what's the actual value of being a Luciferian when it comes to living life?

Is it merely a spiritual aspect which doesn't really interfere with how you live your life or is it like Satanism which is more of a practical guide for the living (at least that's what it should be) instead of a spiritual happening?

D.

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#45944 - 01/05/11 03:03 PM Re: Luciferian types [Re: Diavolo]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Diavolo

Luciferianism is open ended, and it is down to the individual to turn the path into something useful in a spiritual or practical manner.

The idea is that it should be a path of growth from what you are now to a more developed individual in the future. Some Luciferian groups attempt to try to define the path of growth through a series of stages, marked by initiations, an idea borrowed from the Freemasons.
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Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

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#45948 - 01/05/11 05:01 PM Re: Luciferian types [Re: mabon2010]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Yeah but from the vibes I get, it is a bit what we call white-light. In Satanism it is all about me. Pretty simple.

Luciferianism, especially the light-bringer context, makes me wonder if it isn't more about others. I might be wrong but the impression I get is that many luciferians try to reach some form of enlightenment which they then use to guide others towards their spiritual growth. As if their goal is to make the whole human race transcend their current state.

D.

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#45951 - 01/05/11 06:40 PM Re: Luciferian types [Re: Diavolo]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Diavolo

You are right in your observations, the Luciferian becomes empowered through enlightenment, and that ripples through to those around them. Think of it like a composer who reaches inside themselves to create a musical masterpiece, that when played inspires all those who hear it.
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#45978 - 01/06/11 10:43 AM Re: Luciferian types [Re: mabon2010]
Opacus Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/21/10
Posts: 23
Loc: Hell
 Originally Posted By: mabon2010
@ Diavolo

The Luciferian becomes empowered through enlightenment, and that ripples through to those around them.


What does this mean exactly? I know what the WORDS mean but what does it ACTUALLY mean?

And how do you know?

This sounds dangerously close to New Agery to me.

O.

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#45980 - 01/06/11 11:26 AM Re: Luciferian types [Re: Opacus]
Mindmaster Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 68
Loc: Detroit, MI
 Originally Posted By: Opacus
 Originally Posted By: mabon2010
@ Diavolo

The Luciferian becomes empowered through enlightenment, and that ripples through to those around them.


What does this mean exactly? I know what the WORDS mean but what does it ACTUALLY mean?

And how do you know?

This sounds dangerously close to New Agery to me.

O.


Anything not new age is dead and moot. Philosophy and religion are either progressive and living well or collections of dead and useless ideas. Yes, that doesn't answer your question... but, it entertains me...

So, anyway... Why does everything have to be collated and measured perfectly? This tends to be the difference between someone theistic vs. someone who is not. Theists are willing to live with a few unknowns and make due with the knowns.

Being theistic doesn't mean:

A) You've decided to completely deactivate your rationale.

B) You are practicing reverse Christianity. Many people like simple clean cut definitions of themselves, and others are multi-faceted and can create new paradigms. It's easier to be an Atheist or a Luciferian than a "Devil Worshipper" (whatever that means). Each of these guys spends all their day in a think tank loading bullets into the chamber ready to fire whenever one of them says what the other doesn't like. Sounds remarkably like the activity some Islamic and Christian movements have done in the past to get at rivals, but what do I know.

C) You don't philosophically agree with LaVey in many respects.

D) You cannot graft better psychological models than were used by LaVey to solve the human equation. Remember, TSB is a product of 1960's social and psychological science. As much as the king james bible had become long in the tooth the TSB is doing as such now... especially now that information, research, and anything else move much FASTER. At this point, I would say any text that is not updated on a yearly basis is slowly dying and whithering away. Gilmore and crew are merely waking the corpse and selling tickets.

E) rippling isn't SMEXY!!! Yea, uhm... Satanists don't care to ripple onto the world or anyone else... seems sort of chaotic in a den full of control freaks. Most of us like to get power and keep it... Not much for sharing our toys..

F) You have a right to post about Luciferianism in Satanic forums. I'm not a genius, but I think you have to at least consider yourself a "Satanist" or a "Satanic Aspirant" of some sort to hang or be talking about some kinda Satanism considering this is the Satanism not Luciferian forum. (jab) (jab) (hook)

G) You cannot incorporate all of the philosophy of the TSB and reinterpret it through another philosophy or merge it with that philosophy entirely and rename it and call your version _Mindmaster's Satanism_. I find many aspects of _TSB_ questionable from uses of names of the hebrew god in rituals, to borked enochian calls, and a great deal of the unnecessary narcissic baggage. We all eat, sleep, shit, and fuck the same. We need to get over ourselves.

H) try to breathe some life into this dead thread.. by providing all sorts of promising things to bite at for all the fishies..(CPR)

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