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#45471 - 12/23/10 01:08 AM Ophite Cultus Satanas/Others before LaVey
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
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This cult, otherwise known as Our Lady of Endor Coven, was started in the late 1940's. I should mention here it was started by a man by name of Herbert Sloane I stumbled across this group as I was looking for evidences of those that called themselves Satanists before the organization of the CoS by Mr. Anton LaVey.

They proclaimed themselves as Satanists and revered the serpent that came into the garden of Eden as Satan. Satan being considered the Bringer of Knowledge. (Much like a Luciferian's idea of Lucifer being the Light Bringer to humans.)

 Originally Posted By: Encyclopedia of Columbia
The cult of Satan, or Satan worship, is in part a survival of the ancient worship of demons and in part a revolt against Christianity or the church. It rose about the 12th cent. in Europe and reached its culmination in the blasphemous ritual of the Black Mass, a desecration of the Christian rite. The history of early Satanism is obscure. It was revived in the reign of Louis XIV in France...


 Originally Posted By: Works Cited http://yawiki.org/proc/Satanism#13
Johann 1. Georg Faust. (16th century, Germany) Many instructions, in German and in Latin, for making a pact with the Devil were attributed to him. These were collected and published in Germany in a few of the volumes of Das Kloster.

2. Many adherents of the Decadent movement, such as the Polish author Stanis?aw Przybyszewski, the Belgian artist F�licien Rops, and the French poet Charles Baudelaire (who published his poem, Les Litanies de Satan, "The Litanies of Satan" in 1857) either called themselves Satanists, or created overtly Satanist artwork and literature.


This was also from the aforementioned page:
 Quote:
At least two Satanic (or "Luciferian") sects existed in France in the 1930s. One was led by Maria de Naglowska, and had rituals dedicated to Satan and Lucifer. Another, led by a former Catholic priest, celebrated an inversion of the Latin Mass (a "Luciferian Mass"), which included the phrase "In nomine Domini Dei nostri Satanae Luciferi Excelsi" (a phrase that re-appeared 30 years later in Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible).

The Ophite Cultus Satanas ("the Ophite Cult of Satan"), a group founded in Ohio in 1948, said they worshipped the Ophite serpent, which they called Satanas (Satan).


There were a few more but I didn't want to flood the post.
Anyone have any comments or perhaps done any research of their own they'd like to offer up in reference to the Cult listed or Satanism before the 1960s?


Edited by OrgasmicKarmatic (12/23/10 01:11 AM)
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#45474 - 12/23/10 02:01 AM devil worshippers [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Aklo Offline
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Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 158
 Quote:
Anyone have any comments or perhaps done any research of their own they'd like to offer up in reference to the Cult listed or Satanism before the 1960s?

Yeah yeah, after not very careful consideration I think this is my favorite version of this beatdown.

http://www.the600club.com/topic35134-1.html

Featuring "Stanislaw Przybyszewski, Ben Kadosh and even Fraternas Saturni" (credit TheInsane), the row continues here

http://www.the600club.com/topic40287-6.html#Post40143

and there are Ophites in it by around there too, along with Templars, Cainites, and sundry.

It's all much ado about nothing though. FTW

 Originally Posted By: Dan Dread
Still insisting that christian heresy is Satanism I see. I for one did not find any of your arguments to that end very convincing.

It's odd how the line between the two is so glaringly obvious to some and to others it may as well not exist at all. Some things can't be taught
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#45475 - 12/23/10 02:07 AM Re: Research of Satanism before LaVey [Re: Aklo]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
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Registered: 08/01/10
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Loc: Michigan, USA
I am still in the processes of walking through all the information throughout this site. Thanks for the links, I will check them out but the pre-sentence of "favorite beatdown" kind of makes me wary of even reading it.

These were orgs that I was reading about and asking for honest opinions and research. Since you have given me yours, much appreciated.

Despite that, these people were self proclaimed Satanists whether or not the worshiped the devil. Theistic Satanists are NOT lesser Satanists. \:\)


Edited by OrgasmicKarmatic (12/23/10 02:09 AM)
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#45486 - 12/23/10 06:38 AM Re: Research of Satanism before LaVey [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
TheInsane Offline
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Basically its a matter of definition.

* People used the word Satanism pre-LaVey (everyone agrees on that)

* There were self-proscribed Satanists before LaVey (not everyone agrees on that since they regard LaVeys definition of the religion/philosophy to be the only correct one and these people stand out from “the true faith of Satanism” or whatever).

Basically there were people calling themselves Satanists with a religious or philosophical foundation based on Satan (sometimes a deep understanding and sometimes not so much). However LaVey cemented his legacy quite well so alot of people disregard those that came before him (most often without knowing what they actually stood for).

Revisionism of history happens all the time. Satanism is no exception...

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#45499 - 12/23/10 09:58 AM Re: Research of Satanism before LaVey [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Fnord Offline
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 Originally Posted By: OrgasmicKarmatic
Theistic Satanists are NOT lesser Satanists. \:\)



Please watch the first 1 minute.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSgTjKo7ZqI

Your statement is actually much broader and less specific than you might think.
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#45503 - 12/23/10 12:02 PM Re: Research of Satanism before LaVey [Re: Fnord]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Seriously, watch that video. ^^

 Quote:

Theistic Satanists are NOT lesser Satanists

No they aren't, in the same way a bicycle isn't a lesser car.
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#45507 - 12/23/10 12:50 PM Re: Research of Satanism before LaVey [Re: Dan_Dread]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Seriously, watch that video. ^^

 Quote:

Theistic Satanists are NOT lesser Satanists

No they aren't, in the same way a bicycle isn't a lesser car.


Good turn of a phrase and quite well put, Dan. It never ceases to amaze me how much the oranges want to be apples, and will warp time and space to make it happen, even if in their own minds.

How are an orange and a bicycle alike? They both have handlebars, except the orange.
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#45508 - 12/23/10 01:01 PM Re: Research of Satanism before LaVey [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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Registered: 09/28/08
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 Originally Posted By: OrgasmicKarmatic
Theistic Satanists are NOT lesser Satanists. \:\)

Strictly speaking, they are the only authentic Satanists. The 600C is predominantly a forum for atheists who find that term too dull for a sexy self-image. This mirror has been held up before, but you won't get any thanks for scraping the paint off it again.

 Originally Posted By: Anton LaVey, Tools for "The Madness of Andelsprutz"
...
• A microscope with which to detect imperfections.
• A spray can of black paint with which to cover up any inconvenient imperfections.
...
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#45513 - 12/23/10 02:03 PM Re: Research of Satanism before LaVey [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
TheInsane Offline
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Just want to clarify, if the comments were aimed at me, that I am no theist. I do not really share more with any of the pre-LaVeyans either than I do with LaVey.

People who claim that there were no self-proclaimed Satanists with a coherent ideology based on Satan before LaVey are just plain wrong. But yeah, LaVey had lots moe impact and saw more success - at least in regards to promoting his Satanism.

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#45514 - 12/23/10 02:42 PM Re: Research of Satanism before LaVey [Re: TheInsane]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
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 Originally Posted By: TheInsane
However LaVey cemented his legacy quite well so alot of people disregard those that came before him (most often without knowing what they actually stood for).


Agreed.

 Originally Posted By: Fnord
Please watch the first 1 minute.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSgTjKo7ZqI

Your statement is actually much broader and less specific than you might think.


Watched the video. Enjoyed the video even though it is quite formal.

Revision: Today's Theistic Satanists are no lesser Satanists. Even if they project their energies to/through an external deity; the theists that I know still live by "Responsibility to Responsible".

 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread

No they aren't, in the same way a bicycle isn't a lesser car.


In the same way the pencil can be proven to be mightier than the pen.

 Originally Posted By: Jake999
How are an orange and a bicycle alike? They both have handlebars, except the orange.


Actual similarity between orange and bicycle? They are both VERY healthy for you. ;\) LOL

 Originally Posted By: Michael

Strictly speaking, they are the only authentic Satanists. The 600C is predominantly a forum for atheists who find that term too dull for a sexy self-image. This mirror has been held up before, but you won't get any thanks for scraping the paint off it again.


Im not so sure about the first statement that you made BUT yes, I have seen the threads now. Again, trailing the many, many threads around here takes time.

 Originally Posted By: TheInsane
Just want to clarify, if the comments were aimed at me, that I am no theist. I do not really share more with any of the pre-LaVeyans either than I do with LaVey.


Neither am I but I could be considered on to the untrained eye.

 Originally Posted By: TheInsane

People who claim that there were no self-proclaimed Satanists with a coherent ideology based on Satan before LaVey are just plain wrong


Agreed.

However, I must make mention that someone telling a LaVeyan Satanist that they aren't Satanists but products and claiming to be a one and true Satanism seems a tad bit ridiculous as well. (This not aimed at anyone in specific if anyone was wondering.)


Edited by OrgasmicKarmatic (12/23/10 02:44 PM)
Edit Reason: a btw
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#45515 - 12/23/10 03:06 PM Re: Research of Satanism before LaVey [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
TheInsane Offline
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Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
 Originally Posted By: OrgasmicKarmatic

However, I must make mention that someone telling a LaVeyan Satanist that they aren't Satanists but products and claiming to be a one and true Satanism seems a tad bit ridiculous as well. (This not aimed at anyone in specific if anyone was wondering.)


Absolutely! This is especially true with self proclaimed "traditional satanists" who claim that their tradition has a history of several hundered years or even thousands of years. Of course they havent really but people in general seem to think that the older something is the more true it is in regards to religion.

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#45516 - 12/23/10 03:40 PM Re: Research of Satanism before LaVey [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Dan_Dread Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
 Originally Posted By: OrgasmicKarmatic
Theistic Satanists are NOT lesser Satanists. \:\)

Strictly speaking, they are the only authentic Satanists. The 600C is predominantly a forum for atheists who find that term too dull for a sexy self-image. This mirror has been held up before, but you won't get any thanks for scraping the paint off it again.

 Originally Posted By: Anton LaVey, Tools for "The Madness of Andelsprutz"
...
• A microscope with which to detect imperfections.
• A spray can of black paint with which to cover up any inconvenient imperfections.
...



I think you forgot to link your e-book.

Anyway, all you have really pointed out here is the reason for your departure from Satanism in the first place - You are still now, as then, working in a RHP paradigm.

Satan doesn't need layer upon layer of superstition to be meaningful, nor does the word Atheist or Atheism really have any descriptive power in any positive sense.

Your view of Satanists as a bunch of people defining themselves by something they don't even believe in and flavouring it with Satanic trappings because it is too 'boring' is the same absurd strawman today as it was when you first wrote that.
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#45517 - 12/23/10 03:46 PM Re: Research of Satanism before LaVey [Re: Dan_Dread]
Dan_Dread Offline
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 Originally Posted By: I



No they aren't, in the same way a bicycle isn't a lesser car.


 Originally Posted By: OrgasmicKarmatic
]
In the same way the pencil can be proven to be mightier than the pen.

HUH?

I think you may have missed my point. The second you worship(befriend/believe in/accept) a 'greater power' outside of yourself, you have departed from the LHP. There is no such thing as theistic Satanism. Clearer? \:\)
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#45518 - 12/23/10 03:53 PM Re: Research of Satanism before LaVey [Re: Dan_Dread]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
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Analogy, Dan. (Pencil is mightier because it can be erased and a pen can't?.. Anyone? Hmmm...)

I do not misunderstand your point. All this is from your point of view. Accepted. Clear? ;\)
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#45519 - 12/23/10 04:06 PM Re: Research of Satanism before LaVey [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Not my point of view so much as the Satanic one, but not everyone is going to get that.

Feel free to paint whatever you wish as Satanism, but until you can explain just how or why these views should be taken seriously, you should probably work them out so they are at least coherent in your own head.

Have you?

Why don't you explain to us how superstitious belief can fit into a paradigm centered on doubt? Let's quit dancing around and get to the point already. If it's just 'my point of view' that these things are mutually exclusive, lets have another.
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