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#45745 - 12/29/10 05:39 PM Brownie points
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
There's some strange phenomena going on which I have a hard time understanding; the idea that one has to do something for the advancement of Satanism.

Now mind you, I'm all fine with people putting their ideas out there, in whatever form, even when I not necessarily agree with them. If that's what they want to do, fine to me. But what I don't understand is why suddenly it is almost worn as a badge of honor. I think there is a difference between doing something and wanting others to be thankful for it. It almost feels as if a Satanist should be obliged to contribute to Satanism. Like good disciples spreading the message which, in a strange way, turns selfishness almost into a sin.

I'm not targeting at anyone specific, I see that sentiment more and more out there and I find it rather strange.

D.

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#45746 - 12/29/10 06:01 PM Re: Brownie points [Re: Diavolo]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I use Satanism to "advance" myself; Satanism is about me. While I too am fine with people adding their own ideas to Satanism (as long as they aren't trying to change it into something completely different) I see no "cause" to further; nothing to advance.

I think the best way to "move Satanism forward" is the successful application of the principles. Satanism is a tool to be used to advance the self; not the other away around.


Edited by 6Satan6Archist6 (12/29/10 06:02 PM)
Edit Reason: context
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#45748 - 12/29/10 06:09 PM Re: Brownie points [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6

I think the best way to "move Satanism forward" is the successful application of the principles. Satanism is a tool to be used to advance the self; not the other away around.


Yep. I've always felt that the best way to "advance Satanism" is to be everything they think it's NOT. They expect to see the loud, heavy metal, HAIL SATAN screaming, doped up, under or UNemployed clowns that we're portrayed as. When they meet a well spoken, successful and relatively friendly man who can speak well about Satanism, and at the same time be professional and else-wise well read, it shakes their world just a bit from the smug certainty that there's nothing serious to worry about.

The best revenge is in living well. Who'd have guessed that the best offense is as well?
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#45749 - 12/29/10 06:30 PM Re: Brownie points [Re: Diavolo]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: New York
There are those who seem to feel that Satanism deserves to be taken seriously and to be given courteous consideration by those who do not participate in it. Frankly, I am not certain why they have this desire to be so well understood.
I believe that if Satanism was widely accepted it would eventually cease to be Satanism and would be a watered down philosophy more in tune with beliefs such as Wicca.

I believe that it is not Satanism that needs to earn the respect of those outside of it, but it is up to each individual Satanist to earn such respect on their own standing as an indivdual person if it is what they desire.

For example instead of seeking acceptance by a community of people for being a Satanist, the practitioner might consider that they would benefit more by building up their individual identity.
A successful attorney, doctor, medic, father, mother, and teacher can do much more for a particular cause and would deserve a considerable amount of more respect then an individual who only has to offer a self claimed title as a Satanist, while they offer nothing else of a useful substance.

Satanism in itself is not worthy of respect and consideration, but instead it is the Satanic practitioner and their personhood with their achievements behind it that deserves said respect and consideration.
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#45750 - 12/29/10 06:49 PM Re: Brownie points [Re: Asmedious]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Asmedious

A successful attorney, doctor, medic, father, mother, and teacher can do much more for a particular cause and would deserve a considerable amount of more respect then an individual who only has to offer a self claimed title as a Satanist, while they offer nothing else of a useful substance.


Give that man a cigar. BULLSEYE.
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#45751 - 12/29/10 07:17 PM Re: Brownie points [Re: Jake999]
SkaffenAmtiskaw Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 1318
I can only echo the sentiment, not because I feel it justifies my existence or vindicates my choices in the eyes of the 'faithful', but quite simply because I'm not some parody of a black metal musician, struggling to be more 'tr00' than the next band.

I can understand that some people conceive of Satanism as some great cause to be furthered or pinnacle of creation - believe me, I really understand - but that's not what it ever was for me.

Why should I apply for permission to call myself something I know is accurate? Is there some higher authority whose acceptance I require? I don't mean to tear someone down with this, and I know some people put a lot of stock in the opinions of others regarding their convictions, but I'm not one of them.

As for my own accomplishments; there are those who know me, and they probably have an opinion of them. That is fine. All that matters is that I keep adding to them, regardless of whether I am a king or a pauper.
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#45752 - 12/29/10 07:42 PM Re: Brownie points [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3882
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
People are so stuck in RHP methodology that those that see Satanism as a movement or some cause to be submitted to are inevitable. Most are conditioned, or naturally tend to, look outward and project outward. To be a cog, rather than the whole machine.

Surprising? no. Only very rare minds tend to invert this paradigm. Until the day enthusiasts of Satanism do not outnumber the Satanists themselves I would imagine the imaginary 'satanic movement' game will continue to have participants.
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#45753 - 12/29/10 09:39 PM Re: Brownie points [Re: Dan_Dread]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
General reply,

People only do what people want to do, some aspire to become surgeons while others assassins. It is only human nature to want to be accepted to become greater than the rest and rise above, to become the next best thing, to be remembered, to become famous.

The need for acceptance varies differently among all humans. Most want his or her way to be the correct and proper way, therefore any acceptance can boost this feeling of being correct. I see this as having little to do with RHP teachings and all to do with human nature.

I know my way is correct for me and I don’t have anything to prove to anyone. Should anything in my belief system need advancement or change well that’s up to me to decide.

With that being said bring on the next Anton LaVey, PDV and Peter Gilmore wannabies. It is usually a good laugh reading “What have you done for Satanism” anywhere and whatever follows.

Asme's spot on! ;\)

~T~
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We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#45756 - 12/29/10 10:25 PM Re: Brownie points [Re: ta2zz]
JWG Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 68
Like it is said, Satanists are born. To me, the philosophy of Satanism for me has been a journey to look at all the bullshit I have been fed and conditioned to believe/accept that controls me.

It is only after we become conditioned and told who we should be by the mass of external influences growing up when we turn into that dogmatic, lacking of imagination, sheep of an individual. Satanism, for me, has been a liberating thing. Helping me to shed that externally-influenced sense of self and rebuild one from within-out, and to no longer let things hold me back. Sin, objective morals, are just a few easy ones to use as examples, and very superficial at that.

What is funny is so many people look at Satanism, and see something odd or unnatural, evil. When in reality, what is odd is staring at them in the mirror.


Edited by JWG (12/29/10 10:28 PM)
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#45758 - 12/30/10 07:34 AM Re: Brownie points [Re: JWG]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I don't think people are necessarily a Lavey wannabe for expressing their own ideas. In the end, there is little difference between having your opinions scattered all around on forums or packed together in a book. And for Gilmore wannabees, I'd still need to meet the first that regards him as an idol or role model. The guy is so embarrassing even his shadow feels uncomfortable.

I can't say I never have toyed with the idea of compiling some views but I never could answer the "why" question. And as long as I don't find a reasonable answer to that, doing anything else seems like a better idea but I don't think less of those that find a reason. Even when it leads to abominations like Blackwood.

But I only wondered about the brownie points.

D.

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#45759 - 12/30/10 09:36 AM Re: Brownie points [Re: Diavolo]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
active member


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Now mind you, I'm all fine with people putting their ideas out there, in whatever form, even when I not necessarily agree with them. If that's what they want to do, fine to me. But what I don't understand is why suddenly it is almost worn as a badge of honor.


Satanism has a better than average noise-signal ratio. Either considering it as a philosophy or as a religion. In fact I think one would be hard-pressed to find a worldview with as much "background noise," pound for pound, as Satanism.

When I began to incorporate the concept of "manifesting" within my view of Satanism, it was proactive and resulted from my understanding of exactly what The Current is. However, as I've come to interact with more Satanists over time, what I've discovered is that this can almost be viewed as a litmus test of sorts. Those who manifest their Satanism (and I hold Michael Ford as a personal role model in this regard) tend to be the only sane heads in the room.

There are doers and talkers (forgive the obvious irony here), and despite protestations to the contrary, Satanism has not been capable of cutting off the dead wood in any meaningful way. It has almost become an albatross of sorts. And I do realize that many would rejoin with a hearty "so what?," or "who cares?". And yet, these same people are here. Those very same people who protest that their Satanism needs no manifestation outside of their (invariably extremely well to-do) lives are still bothering to take the time to post to a forum and manifest their Will.

This is in no way intended to be a slight on 600, far from it. 600 is an awe-inspiring manifestation in and of itself. But that recasts the original question slightly. Why do you wear it as a badge of honor?

JK
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#45760 - 12/30/10 10:16 AM Re: Brownie points [Re: Jason King]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 862
Loc: Nashville
Good topic. I will say that for me, Satanism is not a badge of honor. That is to say, I don’t go around touting how Satanic I am, whatever that means. Nor am I on any self-appointed mission to spread the message of Satanism. By the same token, I am not ashamed to be a Satanist; I share my thoughts on the matter when I feel the time is right. To me, being a Satanist is as natural as being a white guy. It is who I am, and it “manifests” itself in what I say and do throughout the day.

I do not post here to earn brownie points. Why would I care about impressing a bunch of strangers? I post because it is a learning experience. As I interact with others, I get a clearer sense of how I am progressing and how I am fucking up. I keep coming back here because I think it is in my best interest to do so. The day I think otherwise is the day I leave.
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#45761 - 12/30/10 10:36 AM Re: Brownie points [Re: Jason King]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I think someone's Satanism is above all manifested in their lives since the obvious emphasis, to me, is upon that. As such, I see gathering personal experience as the only worthwhile endeavor. Like I said, I don't necessarily see contributing to the satanic pool of knowledge as a silly idea but in the end, it is just that; adding a certain perspective.

You are correct that sharing an opinion here isn't too different from writing a book or making a video when it comes to manifesting but it is not the sharing or adding I am wondering about as is the addition of that to some list of accomplishments. It's almost as if importance is derived from these additions. And it leads to these strange questions like "What are you doing to manifest Satanism?

Which leads to this imaginary form of Satanism, clearly visible today on the Internet; like a World of Satanscraft, where many try to make up for a clearly mediocre life. Of course it has always been like this and to many Satanism has always been some sort of emotional escapism to feel mighty in their own heads without it necessarily having any correlation with the actual situation in their environment. Still, during the last years it seems to escalate and there's some imaginary community in which it isn't any longer about the actual quality, as importance has shifted to quantity. What you do doesn't matter as much as that you do.

About the badge of honor question. I can't say I feel I wear anything I do here as a badge of honor and you may correct me if I'm wrong. I speak my mind if I feel like it but at no point I think someone should consider me as terrible important for that. I prefer a life in the shadows so wearing anything shiny tends to ruin that.

D.

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#45764 - 12/30/10 11:23 AM Re: Brownie points [Re: Diavolo]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
active member


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
About the badge of honor question. I can't say I feel I wear anything I do here as a badge of honor and you may correct me if I'm wrong. I speak my mind if I feel like it but at no point I think someone should consider me as terrible important for that. I prefer a life in the shadows so wearing anything shiny tends to ruin that.


Here's the point, of all the things you could be doing with your time . . . you choose to be here. You choose to engage other minds in exchange. And the same goes for all the "names" on 600. There's an old saying that "for every finger you point, there's three pointing back at you." If you choose to question the "good-guy badge" of manifestation, I ask: why do you manifest? Do you find your contributions unimportant? I don't. I happen to enjoy your (Diavolo's) posts on 600 more than just about anyone's. Does that make you "terribly important"? No. But it makes you someone who understands that Satanism has a "release valve".

What is being railed against here? "Manifestation" means (at least to me) that Satanism must be a productive philosophy. Without that, it becomes the biggest "kick me" sticker that you could possibly tape to your own backside. Do you deserve "brownie points" for manifesting? Of course not. But I would hold that you deserve recognition from your brethren. And whether or not you realize it, you've received as much on 600. This means that you are more in tune with the counter-position in your OP than you may realize . . .

JK
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#45765 - 12/30/10 11:40 AM Re: Brownie points [Re: Jason King]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I think there's a difference between someone doing something and being of the opinion since they do something, they are more important. The fact that some might like my contributions here (and as many do probably dislike them) doesn't make me feel more important.

D.

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