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#45911 - 01/04/11 02:26 PM On the topic of roads.x.
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
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Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
The concept of roads was once brought up to me here or there. \:\)

Growing up you are bound to hear from a parent "now you can do this the hard way or the easy way". Usually, as children, if we want what we want we are going to start out using the hard way.. crying, screaming, throwing temper tantrums and the like. Eventually, as we mature (well some of us anyhow), we learn that it is much easier to take the "easy way" because that means it makes our goal much easier but does it make us stronger to choose that road?


I have always chosen the harshest road possible. I believe that conflict makes character and the more bumps in this road the better. It's a learning experience. As I leap through my own hurdles and the hurdles thrown in my directions on this road, I build strength and also am notified of my weaknesses in need of working on.


In life we are giving several paths to choose. Some choose the easy, paved road and others choose the chaotic, rocky road. Both roads lead us to an ultimate destination. Which road do you choose?
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#45915 - 01/04/11 03:21 PM Re: On the topic of roads.x. [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Fnord Offline
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Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
I think the choice in this example is somewhat of an illusion.

I don't think, in most instances, the easy road presents itself to those who haven't the hard won wisdom to see it.

In my own case, I've had to have my proverbial ass kicked enough times to figure out how to not get my ass kicked. Now, at this point in my life, I can generally traverse most situations with wisdom enough to never tread near an ass kicking type situation. It's like having clearance to the upper floors in a building. You can go up and look out the window and see where the traffic jams are while planning your route.

That said, I cannot honestly say that I've ever actually found an easy road to any goal that's been worth the effort of attaining.

I've had friends that have 'had it easy'. You know, those people whose parents gave them everything, sent them to school, bought them cars etc. Inevitably, they wind up on the hard road, despite being given an early detour.

I think the bottom line is that life is hard. Some embrace it for what it is (Satanists) and some try to sugar coat it. Either way, the road is hard.
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#45935 - 01/05/11 10:25 AM Re: On the topic of roads.x. [Re: Fnord]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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There are many people that have experienced rough times in their past, as there are many that have had it easy but I'd not necessarily consider them following a hard or easy path. To be on a path implies it leads somewhere; you have to consciously be going into a certain direction. If you are not doing that, you are just wandering around.

When you define your direction, you can define what sort of path to take towards it. If I'd have to describe mine, the simplest way to describe it is possibly considering it an undertaking in understanding the Self, something like personal gnosis. And through this understanding of the Self, you can understand that what is not Self and liberate yourself from it. I know; we're being mystical, excuse me for that.

One could attempt understanding the Self through gathering knowledge from different sources, or even more occult approaches but I personally do think any valuable knowledge only comes through real experience. All other knowledge is just knowledge by proxy.

I see my path as leading through a desert where, everywhere, lines are drawn into the sand; lines drawn by others, or by your own hand, unknowingly forced by others. These lines are not to be crossed. But to fully understand the Self, you have to work closer and closer towards these lines, and deliberately cross them. It is only then you are able to erase them; and able to draw them again, but this time where you yourself prefer them to be.

Would I consider it a hard path? It doesn't feel like that to me but when looking at other paths, I cannot escape the impression, theirs seems slightly easier. Instead of deliberately trying to cross lines, many prefer to only work towards the easier ones while trying to zigzag around the more difficult. As such, they can still hold on to things which bring comfort, but are unnecessary or trivial. At least to me. The less luggage you carry, the farther you can travel.

This is probably my eloquent way of saying; you got to be a bad boy to get somewhere.

D.

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#45945 - 01/05/11 03:24 PM Re: On the topic of roads.x. [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Knievel74 Offline
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Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
Sometimes the easy road is the best road. Hard times and struggling build character but if you go out of your way to struggle you might find yourself burned out and bitter in the end. I know many musicians who went out of their way to take the hard road and live like bums only to give up their dream because it was too hard and in the end they had nothing to show for it.

Unfortunately, when you're young you don't know what the best road is because you just don't have the experience. So, you end up making the same mistakes until you learn what not to do. Knowing what road to take really only comes with age and experience.

That being said; When it comes to a friendship or a romantic relationship, take the easy road. In other words, if the relationship is dragging you down and causing you emotional distress to the point where you can't focus on yourself, drop the person. No matter who they are. If you're trying to build a career, the only road is the hard road. But the struggle is actually fun because if you work hard enough it'll pay off in the end. Especially if you're trying to start your own company. Like me \:\)

So, choose which road you want to walk very carefully. Sometimes the easy road is the best road \:\)
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"Man was meant to live, not just to exist". - Evel Knievel

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#45946 - 01/05/11 04:20 PM Pathworking [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Aklo Offline
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Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 158
The gates of Hell stand open night and day;
Smooth the descent, and easy is the way ...

-- Virgil

If the "road" you have chosen seems hard to you, you haven't chosen correctly. The road to hell -- that is, to reality, to working with the true nature of things to your own success -- may look hard, intentionally, but it is much easier than staggering along blind and stupid toward recurring failure. All of this inherited crap about how hard it is to do the right thing and so on is the very definition of the distinction between the Right and Left Hand Paths. The white religions talk on and on about how hard it is to do things their way, because their way is unnatural and stupid. Is that unclear somehow?

If you have the real stuff, if you have magickal power over the world and its inner workings, if you have any business at all in claiming to have the truth about life, the universe, and everything -- then no, it's not hard, it's extremely fucking easy.

 Quote:
As I leap through my own hurdles and the hurdles thrown in my directions on this road, I build strength and also am notified of my weaknesses in need of working on.


Yeah, I don't know. You might be showing an insight into what I'm trying to point out, that it may look hard but it's much easier than fighting your own nature. Or, you may just be a masochist who enjoys the strife. Or, you may be as RHP as you keep getting accused of being, a black sheep as it were.

If the world isn't working for you, it's because you aren't working with the world. If your path isn't leading to material success, it isn't the left-hand path. If you aren't getting your reward in this world, in this life, why bother even pretending you are playing the Devil's game? Evil always wins.

We see this a lot with the budding Wiccans, their principal won't let them wear their Pentagram nose-ring and it's soooo unfair, it's total discrimination and they are just a victim just like all those saints who got burned at the stake and so on.

What the fuck? If you have magic, if your system is the OTR indeed, then the only way you could be a victim is if that was what you wanted to be. "The real witches were sleeping with the executioners".

But this doesn't mean that the LHP doesn't involve a lot of phenomena that look hard and troublesome from the outside, to the sheep who are born to suffer. Nietzche covers this whole viewpoint thing very well in the Antichrist when he gives a functional definition of happiness.

Most people have happiness confused with pleasure, or comfort. But it isn't. "Happiness is the feeling that strength increases as resistance is overcome." It's not peace at all, but war. It's not rest, it's more striving! It's actually accomplishing something.

When someone takes you out to a restaurant and buys you the lobster, and you eat it, and it tastes good, that's pleasure. But when you go out in your little boat in the dead of winter and check your cages, and you got some, and you loose the tip of a finger bagging the little fuckers, and sell them at the market and get the money you need and take the one you kept and lose another bit of hangnail boiling his angry little ass, and sit down in your shack and don't owe nobody nothing and eat the slimy son of a bitch, well -- that's happiness.

And it's much easier than being a slave, because it's the full potential of your own nature.

_________________________
Behold, I send you forth as wolves among sheep; eat Lambchop for supper and fuck Bo Peep!

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#45947 - 01/05/11 04:53 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: Aklo]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: Aklo
If your path isn't leading to material success, it isn't the left-hand path. If you aren't getting your reward in this world, in this life, why bother even pretending you are playing the Devil's game? Evil always wins.


I think that if we should equate material success with the LHP, there sure are a lot of people following it. Especially in China these days. But what is material success? If you got a hundred dollars and a car, you sure appear successful compared to a tramp. If you got a million, 5 cars and a penthouse, the real successful still think you're the tramp. Many consider themselves financially successful but too often it is because they only look down the ladder and not up.

Personally I hardly care about material success. Possessions are not something I bond with or consider a token of my success, neither is cash. Cash is handy, so is a couch but that's about it for me.

D.

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#45949 - 01/05/11 05:31 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: Diavolo]
Aklo Offline
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Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 158
 Quote:
Personally I hardly care about material success. Possessions are not something I bond with or consider a token of my success, neither is cash. Cash is handy, so is a couch but that's about it for me.


Right right, as I had hoped my lobster example would make clear, the emphasis I'm going for isn't so much on material as it is on sucess. All I really mean by "material" is, real, in this world, here and now, not pie in the sky. Better?

If material things are what you want, and you aren't getting them, and your excuse is that you are doing what you have been taught is right and you have faith -- well, fuck you, you're a fucking sheep. If what you want is to be left alone, and people keep bothering you, and you weep and wail about how unfair life is -- you don't have any goddamned magic, not matter how many old books you read. Getting the idea?

If people don't like their results, they need to change their fucking methods. If Homer rings Krusty's doorbell, and it shocks him, and he keeps ringing it and expecting something different, HA HA HA HA, the joke's on him.

If people want me to admire them for how brave and persistent they are, continually doing what they think is "right" even though it doesn't seem to do them any damn good at all -- well my rates for that sort of work run pretty high, and come with a disclaimer. If they want real respect, they should stop pissing into the wind, recognize the way things are, assume their own proper orbit as a star, and succeed beyond their wildest dreams. They could start right now.

But I don't mind if they don't. The less mages we have, the more slaves each mage can manage. It's all good.
_________________________
Behold, I send you forth as wolves among sheep; eat Lambchop for supper and fuck Bo Peep!

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#45950 - 01/05/11 06:22 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: Aklo]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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I understood you weren't talking about gaining credits for the afterlife, thank you.

Of course there are a lot of people desiring a multitude of things but never getting them because either what they want is silly or they can't bring up the real effort required to acquire these. So they resort to prayer, wishing or magic in a desperate attempt to realize their hopes.
It's how cattle behaves; if they are hungry, they wait for a shepherd to bring them to the grassy fields.

I personally see no need to insert magic in the equation for success. All it takes is doing what is required. Such a thing seems more natural than magical.

D.

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#45953 - 01/05/11 08:01 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: Diavolo]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
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Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
General reply: The idea that nothing that doesn't take work is worth a damn is something that I hold very close to me. I think that EVERYTHING takes work.

I am also of the belief that there are several different ways of learning. Some people take the easiest route they can and are comfortable with that.. some, like myself, learn best the hard way.

The only example I can offer here that might be "understandable" is: I joined the MCoS to toy around with some of thoughts kicking around in my head.. soon that place just wasn't enough for me. Aka: there wasn't enough challenge, it was too easy to get by with everything that I had to say, ect ect. So I sought out another venue, a challenging one. Instead of staying where it was easy, I registered here (whose reputation far supersedes itself).

I saw MCoS as the easy path with their Libertine system and almost always agreeing status. I saw the 600 Club as a challenge, the hard way so to speak.

To this day, I am only active here and at a networking site where I go to hang out and discuss things in a more playful manner.

It is true that if you have the knowledge, the road is NOT all that hard. However, even with that knowledge there is much more to learn and as you go up that ladder you'll find that in the rungs come more challenges and more knowledge to be obtained.


Edited by OrgasmicKarmatic (01/05/11 08:02 PM)
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#45954 - 01/05/11 08:07 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: Diavolo]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Just a quick note. I don't want ANYBODY to feel bad for having success and money and things. It's really sad to see people sad because they have things like money and cars and nice homes. So to show you what a good guy I am, anyone who doesn't want their filthy cash or property can send them to ME! That's right... I'll shoulder that burden for you. I'll take the low road and spend and I'll even put up a brave face while doing it.

(cue up the Simon and Garfunkle... Like a brrrrriiiiiidge over trou-ou-bled waterrrrrrr)
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#45956 - 01/05/11 09:14 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: Jake999]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
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Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
Jake, atm I cannot say I have too much to be all that sad about but I will remember the sincere offer in the future if I find that my financial success is just far too much to deal with. I can think of no one better to relieve anyone of such a heavy burden. \:\)
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http://othermindx.blogspot.com

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#45957 - 01/05/11 09:18 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
If it isn't in the near future, you might consider flowers.

D.

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#45958 - 01/05/11 09:21 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: Diavolo]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
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Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
Flowers might be too much. Besides, you never know who is allergic to what these days. I don't want to kill anyone.
_________________________
I am a ghost.x
http://othermindx.blogspot.com

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#45959 - 01/05/11 09:32 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: Diavolo]
Aklo Offline
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Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 158
 Quote:
I personally see no need to insert magic in the equation for success.

Because you continue to insist on defining "magic" in a way that has been deprecated. Certainly there's no point in praying, so if you think of magic as just "spooky praying" then of course it would be useless. But that isn't an effective definition!

If you really didn't believe in magic, then you could just be an Atheist, or an infidel. But you aren't, you are, by intention, by choice, a heretic. You have attached yourself to a system that characterizes itself by mythological terms. This use of archetypes for the manipulation of self and others might be just religion, if it were as ineffective as Christianity or Islam, with copouts like "thy will be done" and "submission". But it isn't, it's very effective, and that makes it magic.

So seeing as how you are doing magic anyway, why not do the hell out of it? Why bother with the trick top hat, if you aren't going to pull out rabbits as needed?

 Originally Posted By: Anton Szandor LaVey
“Satanism is based on a very sound philosophy,” say the emancipated. “But why call it Satanism? Why not call it something like ‘Humanism’ or a name that would have the connotation of a witchcraft group, something a little more esoteric—something less blatant.” There is more than one reason for this. Humanism is not a religion. It is simply a way of life with no ceremony or dogma. Satanism has both ceremony and dogma. Dogma, as will be explained, is necessary.

This intentional use of dogma and ceremony, for your own purposes rather than those of other people or some external god, is magic at its blackest. This combination of rationality and woo is what makes what we have here the Only True Religion. It's not "prayers to the devil", it's "moving meditation".

Knowing this, knowing that that's what you are doing a little and enjoying a lot, why not learn more about how it works and use it to the best of your ability? Or else drop the diabolical trappings altogether and start the First Church of Nobody At All?

Even Dawkins analyzes and documents memetics. That's right, an Atheist with no funny robe at all, still sees the value of understanding magic.
_________________________
Behold, I send you forth as wolves among sheep; eat Lambchop for supper and fuck Bo Peep!

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#45960 - 01/05/11 10:36 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: Aklo]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: Aklo
This use of archetypes for the manipulation of self and others might be just religion, if it were as ineffective as Christianity or Islam, with copouts like "thy will be done" and "submission". But it isn't, it's very effective, and that makes it magic.

So seeing as how you are doing magic anyway, why not do the hell out of it? Why bother with the trick top hat, if you aren't going to pull out rabbits as needed?


I think this is slightly flawed logic. It's like saying if you can jump down three feet, why not jump a thousand.

I don't mind people doing magic. If it alters their mind and they can benefit from it, great. Others use psychedelics in a similar manner or even tribal dancing.
But when it comes to real world success, I do think all those dusty tomes and occult grimoires are rather irrelevant, and at some level, and this is purely a logical conclusion, affirming inferiority. I see it as a hobby, that's it. Some like scifi, others music and some like delving into occult stuff. But that's it; a hobby and like most hobbies, no real power comes out of it. It isn't necessary either since hobbies are just moments of joy and escapism. Relaxation.

So I don't do magic myself and don't try to describe something else as such. If others feel they have to, their choice. I call memetics memetics and manipulation, manipulation because in the end, that's what it is to me.

 Quote:
Certainly I see the scientific view of the world as incompatible with religion, but that is not what is interesting about it. It is also incompatible with magic, but that also is not worth stressing. What is interesting about the scientific world view is that it is true, inspiring, remarkable and that it unites a whole lot of phenomena under a single heading. Richard Dawkins

I'm not sure if he sees it your way.

D.


Edited by Diavolo (01/05/11 10:40 PM)

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