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#45911 - 01/04/11 02:26 PM On the topic of roads.x.
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
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The concept of roads was once brought up to me here or there. \:\)

Growing up you are bound to hear from a parent "now you can do this the hard way or the easy way". Usually, as children, if we want what we want we are going to start out using the hard way.. crying, screaming, throwing temper tantrums and the like. Eventually, as we mature (well some of us anyhow), we learn that it is much easier to take the "easy way" because that means it makes our goal much easier but does it make us stronger to choose that road?


I have always chosen the harshest road possible. I believe that conflict makes character and the more bumps in this road the better. It's a learning experience. As I leap through my own hurdles and the hurdles thrown in my directions on this road, I build strength and also am notified of my weaknesses in need of working on.


In life we are giving several paths to choose. Some choose the easy, paved road and others choose the chaotic, rocky road. Both roads lead us to an ultimate destination. Which road do you choose?
_________________________
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#45915 - 01/04/11 03:21 PM Re: On the topic of roads.x. [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Fnord Offline
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Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
I think the choice in this example is somewhat of an illusion.

I don't think, in most instances, the easy road presents itself to those who haven't the hard won wisdom to see it.

In my own case, I've had to have my proverbial ass kicked enough times to figure out how to not get my ass kicked. Now, at this point in my life, I can generally traverse most situations with wisdom enough to never tread near an ass kicking type situation. It's like having clearance to the upper floors in a building. You can go up and look out the window and see where the traffic jams are while planning your route.

That said, I cannot honestly say that I've ever actually found an easy road to any goal that's been worth the effort of attaining.

I've had friends that have 'had it easy'. You know, those people whose parents gave them everything, sent them to school, bought them cars etc. Inevitably, they wind up on the hard road, despite being given an early detour.

I think the bottom line is that life is hard. Some embrace it for what it is (Satanists) and some try to sugar coat it. Either way, the road is hard.
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#45935 - 01/05/11 10:25 AM Re: On the topic of roads.x. [Re: Fnord]
Diavolo Offline
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There are many people that have experienced rough times in their past, as there are many that have had it easy but I'd not necessarily consider them following a hard or easy path. To be on a path implies it leads somewhere; you have to consciously be going into a certain direction. If you are not doing that, you are just wandering around.

When you define your direction, you can define what sort of path to take towards it. If I'd have to describe mine, the simplest way to describe it is possibly considering it an undertaking in understanding the Self, something like personal gnosis. And through this understanding of the Self, you can understand that what is not Self and liberate yourself from it. I know; we're being mystical, excuse me for that.

One could attempt understanding the Self through gathering knowledge from different sources, or even more occult approaches but I personally do think any valuable knowledge only comes through real experience. All other knowledge is just knowledge by proxy.

I see my path as leading through a desert where, everywhere, lines are drawn into the sand; lines drawn by others, or by your own hand, unknowingly forced by others. These lines are not to be crossed. But to fully understand the Self, you have to work closer and closer towards these lines, and deliberately cross them. It is only then you are able to erase them; and able to draw them again, but this time where you yourself prefer them to be.

Would I consider it a hard path? It doesn't feel like that to me but when looking at other paths, I cannot escape the impression, theirs seems slightly easier. Instead of deliberately trying to cross lines, many prefer to only work towards the easier ones while trying to zigzag around the more difficult. As such, they can still hold on to things which bring comfort, but are unnecessary or trivial. At least to me. The less luggage you carry, the farther you can travel.

This is probably my eloquent way of saying; you got to be a bad boy to get somewhere.

D.

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#45945 - 01/05/11 03:24 PM Re: On the topic of roads.x. [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Knievel74 Offline
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Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 149
Loc: NY
Sometimes the easy road is the best road. Hard times and struggling build character but if you go out of your way to struggle you might find yourself burned out and bitter in the end. I know many musicians who went out of their way to take the hard road and live like bums only to give up their dream because it was too hard and in the end they had nothing to show for it.

Unfortunately, when you're young you don't know what the best road is because you just don't have the experience. So, you end up making the same mistakes until you learn what not to do. Knowing what road to take really only comes with age and experience.

That being said; When it comes to a friendship or a romantic relationship, take the easy road. In other words, if the relationship is dragging you down and causing you emotional distress to the point where you can't focus on yourself, drop the person. No matter who they are. If you're trying to build a career, the only road is the hard road. But the struggle is actually fun because if you work hard enough it'll pay off in the end. Especially if you're trying to start your own company. Like me \:\)

So, choose which road you want to walk very carefully. Sometimes the easy road is the best road \:\)
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#45946 - 01/05/11 04:20 PM Pathworking [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Aklo Offline
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Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 158
The gates of Hell stand open night and day;
Smooth the descent, and easy is the way ...

-- Virgil

If the "road" you have chosen seems hard to you, you haven't chosen correctly. The road to hell -- that is, to reality, to working with the true nature of things to your own success -- may look hard, intentionally, but it is much easier than staggering along blind and stupid toward recurring failure. All of this inherited crap about how hard it is to do the right thing and so on is the very definition of the distinction between the Right and Left Hand Paths. The white religions talk on and on about how hard it is to do things their way, because their way is unnatural and stupid. Is that unclear somehow?

If you have the real stuff, if you have magickal power over the world and its inner workings, if you have any business at all in claiming to have the truth about life, the universe, and everything -- then no, it's not hard, it's extremely fucking easy.

 Quote:
As I leap through my own hurdles and the hurdles thrown in my directions on this road, I build strength and also am notified of my weaknesses in need of working on.


Yeah, I don't know. You might be showing an insight into what I'm trying to point out, that it may look hard but it's much easier than fighting your own nature. Or, you may just be a masochist who enjoys the strife. Or, you may be as RHP as you keep getting accused of being, a black sheep as it were.

If the world isn't working for you, it's because you aren't working with the world. If your path isn't leading to material success, it isn't the left-hand path. If you aren't getting your reward in this world, in this life, why bother even pretending you are playing the Devil's game? Evil always wins.

We see this a lot with the budding Wiccans, their principal won't let them wear their Pentagram nose-ring and it's soooo unfair, it's total discrimination and they are just a victim just like all those saints who got burned at the stake and so on.

What the fuck? If you have magic, if your system is the OTR indeed, then the only way you could be a victim is if that was what you wanted to be. "The real witches were sleeping with the executioners".

But this doesn't mean that the LHP doesn't involve a lot of phenomena that look hard and troublesome from the outside, to the sheep who are born to suffer. Nietzche covers this whole viewpoint thing very well in the Antichrist when he gives a functional definition of happiness.

Most people have happiness confused with pleasure, or comfort. But it isn't. "Happiness is the feeling that strength increases as resistance is overcome." It's not peace at all, but war. It's not rest, it's more striving! It's actually accomplishing something.

When someone takes you out to a restaurant and buys you the lobster, and you eat it, and it tastes good, that's pleasure. But when you go out in your little boat in the dead of winter and check your cages, and you got some, and you loose the tip of a finger bagging the little fuckers, and sell them at the market and get the money you need and take the one you kept and lose another bit of hangnail boiling his angry little ass, and sit down in your shack and don't owe nobody nothing and eat the slimy son of a bitch, well -- that's happiness.

And it's much easier than being a slave, because it's the full potential of your own nature.

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Behold, I send you forth as wolves among sheep; eat Lambchop for supper and fuck Bo Peep!

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#45947 - 01/05/11 04:53 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: Aklo]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: Aklo
If your path isn't leading to material success, it isn't the left-hand path. If you aren't getting your reward in this world, in this life, why bother even pretending you are playing the Devil's game? Evil always wins.


I think that if we should equate material success with the LHP, there sure are a lot of people following it. Especially in China these days. But what is material success? If you got a hundred dollars and a car, you sure appear successful compared to a tramp. If you got a million, 5 cars and a penthouse, the real successful still think you're the tramp. Many consider themselves financially successful but too often it is because they only look down the ladder and not up.

Personally I hardly care about material success. Possessions are not something I bond with or consider a token of my success, neither is cash. Cash is handy, so is a couch but that's about it for me.

D.

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#45949 - 01/05/11 05:31 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: Diavolo]
Aklo Offline
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Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 158
 Quote:
Personally I hardly care about material success. Possessions are not something I bond with or consider a token of my success, neither is cash. Cash is handy, so is a couch but that's about it for me.


Right right, as I had hoped my lobster example would make clear, the emphasis I'm going for isn't so much on material as it is on sucess. All I really mean by "material" is, real, in this world, here and now, not pie in the sky. Better?

If material things are what you want, and you aren't getting them, and your excuse is that you are doing what you have been taught is right and you have faith -- well, fuck you, you're a fucking sheep. If what you want is to be left alone, and people keep bothering you, and you weep and wail about how unfair life is -- you don't have any goddamned magic, not matter how many old books you read. Getting the idea?

If people don't like their results, they need to change their fucking methods. If Homer rings Krusty's doorbell, and it shocks him, and he keeps ringing it and expecting something different, HA HA HA HA, the joke's on him.

If people want me to admire them for how brave and persistent they are, continually doing what they think is "right" even though it doesn't seem to do them any damn good at all -- well my rates for that sort of work run pretty high, and come with a disclaimer. If they want real respect, they should stop pissing into the wind, recognize the way things are, assume their own proper orbit as a star, and succeed beyond their wildest dreams. They could start right now.

But I don't mind if they don't. The less mages we have, the more slaves each mage can manage. It's all good.
_________________________
Behold, I send you forth as wolves among sheep; eat Lambchop for supper and fuck Bo Peep!

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#45950 - 01/05/11 06:22 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: Aklo]
Diavolo Offline
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I understood you weren't talking about gaining credits for the afterlife, thank you.

Of course there are a lot of people desiring a multitude of things but never getting them because either what they want is silly or they can't bring up the real effort required to acquire these. So they resort to prayer, wishing or magic in a desperate attempt to realize their hopes.
It's how cattle behaves; if they are hungry, they wait for a shepherd to bring them to the grassy fields.

I personally see no need to insert magic in the equation for success. All it takes is doing what is required. Such a thing seems more natural than magical.

D.

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#45953 - 01/05/11 08:01 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: Diavolo]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
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Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
General reply: The idea that nothing that doesn't take work is worth a damn is something that I hold very close to me. I think that EVERYTHING takes work.

I am also of the belief that there are several different ways of learning. Some people take the easiest route they can and are comfortable with that.. some, like myself, learn best the hard way.

The only example I can offer here that might be "understandable" is: I joined the MCoS to toy around with some of thoughts kicking around in my head.. soon that place just wasn't enough for me. Aka: there wasn't enough challenge, it was too easy to get by with everything that I had to say, ect ect. So I sought out another venue, a challenging one. Instead of staying where it was easy, I registered here (whose reputation far supersedes itself).

I saw MCoS as the easy path with their Libertine system and almost always agreeing status. I saw the 600 Club as a challenge, the hard way so to speak.

To this day, I am only active here and at a networking site where I go to hang out and discuss things in a more playful manner.

It is true that if you have the knowledge, the road is NOT all that hard. However, even with that knowledge there is much more to learn and as you go up that ladder you'll find that in the rungs come more challenges and more knowledge to be obtained.


Edited by OrgasmicKarmatic (01/05/11 08:02 PM)
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#45954 - 01/05/11 08:07 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: Diavolo]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Just a quick note. I don't want ANYBODY to feel bad for having success and money and things. It's really sad to see people sad because they have things like money and cars and nice homes. So to show you what a good guy I am, anyone who doesn't want their filthy cash or property can send them to ME! That's right... I'll shoulder that burden for you. I'll take the low road and spend and I'll even put up a brave face while doing it.

(cue up the Simon and Garfunkle... Like a brrrrriiiiiidge over trou-ou-bled waterrrrrrr)
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#45956 - 01/05/11 09:14 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: Jake999]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
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Loc: Michigan, USA
Jake, atm I cannot say I have too much to be all that sad about but I will remember the sincere offer in the future if I find that my financial success is just far too much to deal with. I can think of no one better to relieve anyone of such a heavy burden. \:\)
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#45957 - 01/05/11 09:18 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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If it isn't in the near future, you might consider flowers.

D.

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#45958 - 01/05/11 09:21 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: Diavolo]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
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Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
Flowers might be too much. Besides, you never know who is allergic to what these days. I don't want to kill anyone.
_________________________
I am a ghost.x
http://othermindx.blogspot.com

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#45959 - 01/05/11 09:32 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: Diavolo]
Aklo Offline
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Posts: 158
 Quote:
I personally see no need to insert magic in the equation for success.

Because you continue to insist on defining "magic" in a way that has been deprecated. Certainly there's no point in praying, so if you think of magic as just "spooky praying" then of course it would be useless. But that isn't an effective definition!

If you really didn't believe in magic, then you could just be an Atheist, or an infidel. But you aren't, you are, by intention, by choice, a heretic. You have attached yourself to a system that characterizes itself by mythological terms. This use of archetypes for the manipulation of self and others might be just religion, if it were as ineffective as Christianity or Islam, with copouts like "thy will be done" and "submission". But it isn't, it's very effective, and that makes it magic.

So seeing as how you are doing magic anyway, why not do the hell out of it? Why bother with the trick top hat, if you aren't going to pull out rabbits as needed?

 Originally Posted By: Anton Szandor LaVey
“Satanism is based on a very sound philosophy,” say the emancipated. “But why call it Satanism? Why not call it something like ‘Humanism’ or a name that would have the connotation of a witchcraft group, something a little more esoteric—something less blatant.” There is more than one reason for this. Humanism is not a religion. It is simply a way of life with no ceremony or dogma. Satanism has both ceremony and dogma. Dogma, as will be explained, is necessary.

This intentional use of dogma and ceremony, for your own purposes rather than those of other people or some external god, is magic at its blackest. This combination of rationality and woo is what makes what we have here the Only True Religion. It's not "prayers to the devil", it's "moving meditation".

Knowing this, knowing that that's what you are doing a little and enjoying a lot, why not learn more about how it works and use it to the best of your ability? Or else drop the diabolical trappings altogether and start the First Church of Nobody At All?

Even Dawkins analyzes and documents memetics. That's right, an Atheist with no funny robe at all, still sees the value of understanding magic.
_________________________
Behold, I send you forth as wolves among sheep; eat Lambchop for supper and fuck Bo Peep!

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#45960 - 01/05/11 10:36 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: Aklo]
Diavolo Offline
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Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: Aklo
This use of archetypes for the manipulation of self and others might be just religion, if it were as ineffective as Christianity or Islam, with copouts like "thy will be done" and "submission". But it isn't, it's very effective, and that makes it magic.

So seeing as how you are doing magic anyway, why not do the hell out of it? Why bother with the trick top hat, if you aren't going to pull out rabbits as needed?


I think this is slightly flawed logic. It's like saying if you can jump down three feet, why not jump a thousand.

I don't mind people doing magic. If it alters their mind and they can benefit from it, great. Others use psychedelics in a similar manner or even tribal dancing.
But when it comes to real world success, I do think all those dusty tomes and occult grimoires are rather irrelevant, and at some level, and this is purely a logical conclusion, affirming inferiority. I see it as a hobby, that's it. Some like scifi, others music and some like delving into occult stuff. But that's it; a hobby and like most hobbies, no real power comes out of it. It isn't necessary either since hobbies are just moments of joy and escapism. Relaxation.

So I don't do magic myself and don't try to describe something else as such. If others feel they have to, their choice. I call memetics memetics and manipulation, manipulation because in the end, that's what it is to me.

 Quote:
Certainly I see the scientific view of the world as incompatible with religion, but that is not what is interesting about it. It is also incompatible with magic, but that also is not worth stressing. What is interesting about the scientific world view is that it is true, inspiring, remarkable and that it unites a whole lot of phenomena under a single heading. Richard Dawkins

I'm not sure if he sees it your way.

D.


Edited by Diavolo (01/05/11 10:40 PM)

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#45961 - 01/05/11 11:10 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: Diavolo]
Aklo Offline
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Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 158
 Quote:
I call memetics memetics and manipulation, manipulation because in the end, that's what it is to me.

Why don't you just call your aggressive Atheism "aggressive Atheism" then? If all you "believe in" is science, why isn't the description "scientist" enough?

 Quote:
I don't do magic myself and don't try to describe something else as such.

What do you think magic is? Saying that magic is the contents of dusty old tomes, and not the manipulation of the mind by means of archetypes, is much like saying music is those strange wedged shape designs in the songbook, and not the beautiful sounds coming from the speakers.

 Quote:
Others use psychedelics in a similar manner or even tribal dancing.

Use of psychedelics and dancing to manipulate the mind are magickal techniques and invariably include the evocation of archetypes in their road to success. Whether these are very effective techniques is subject to great debate. What they are techniques of is understood by everyone in the debate though.

 Quote:
But when it comes to real world success, I do think all those dusty tomes and occult grimoires are rather irrelevant, and at some level, and this is purely a logical conclusion, affirming inferiority. I see it as a hobby, that's it.

All hat, no rabbit. Why are you carrying this gun, if you don't believe in bullets?
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Behold, I send you forth as wolves among sheep; eat Lambchop for supper and fuck Bo Peep!

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#45963 - 01/05/11 11:40 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: Aklo]
Diavolo Offline
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Last I knew Atheism was about not believing in gods so the question seems strange.
Maybe for a Laveyan magic is a must but to me, it is quite irrelevant.

To me, psychedelics are not magickal techniques, neither is tribal dancing. In the days of yore it might have been considered magick, but in those days, even the rising sun was magical. I also don't go to work in my iron carriage which is driven forth by the force. If others prefer to color their world, let them.

Look;

Group A does apply magic and successfully gains worldly success.
Group B, which is far greater, applies magic too and fails at gaining worldly success.
We could conclude that group A knows what they are doing while group B are amateurs.
But group C, which is the far greatest group doesn't know a thing about magic or isn't interested at all and they still do gain worldly success.

Of course we could suggest group C is, unknowingly, applying magic and thus succeed.
But if we'd do that, we could also replace magic with gods assistance or touched by the force. It would not matter.

All that matters is that group A and group C accomplish their goal and that magic might not be the source but most likely, qualities that both groups posses. However, since group A has to rely on magic to accomplish the same, they seem to be inferior to group C which don't need anything at all. To them, their own qualities suffice.

I could of course be totally wrong and you may point out if so. Until, I see magic as a hobby with little relevance.

Why carry bullets if there is no gun?

D.

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#45972 - 01/06/11 10:09 AM Re: Pathworking [Re: Diavolo]
JysusCryst Offline
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Registered: 06/23/09
Posts: 21
Loc: Iraq
What I interpret Aklo as saying is use Lesser Magic, i.e. manipulation, to obtain what you want.

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Group A does apply magic and successfully gains worldly success.
Group B, which is far greater, applies magic too and fails at gaining worldly success.
We could conclude that group A knows what they are doing while group B are amateurs.
But group C, which is the far greatest group doesn't know a thing about magic or isn't interested at all and they still do gain worldly success.


Group A has to consciously apply magic to obtain their goals.
Group B attempts and fails at it.
Group C doesn't have to consciously apply lesser magic, either it comes naturally or they already have the appropriate archetype to achieve their goals.

Group A could also be using Greater Magic, though I don't (personally) see the need to do so.

_____

On a personal note, I've never really viewed Lesser Magic as "magic" at all, just applied psychology.


Edited by JysusCryst (01/06/11 10:54 AM)
Edit Reason: Grammer
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#45974 - 01/06/11 10:32 AM Re: Pathworking [Re: JysusCryst]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: JysusCryst

On a personal note, I've never really viewed Lesser Magic as "magic" at all, just applied psychology.


By George, I think he's got it!!! LaVey wrote to his audience in terms that would be familiar to them and in concepts, sometimes metaphors, that they could relate to. Those who might be most amenable to the budding Church of Satan often spoke in such terms as magic and metaphysics.

It's akin to a heart surgeon speaking to two audiences. To his learned colleagues, he might speak of a myocardial infarction, and they would understand. To his audience of laymen, heart attack would suffice.
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#45981 - 01/06/11 11:34 AM Re: Pathworking [Re: JysusCryst]
Aklo Offline
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Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 158
 Quote:
What I interpret Aklo as saying is use Lesser Magic, i.e. manipulation, to obtain what you want.

Yes, very good!

But there's a little more to it than that, of course. (The devil is in the detail.)

 Quote:
On a personal note, I've never really viewed Lesser Magic as "magic" at all, just applied psychology.

"Just" applied psychology !?! The secret key to every religious and scientific and magickal advance in all of human civilization, and you say it's just applied psychology. Sure it is, man; but the word "magic" is better because it's more impressive and less trite. When I get what I want, by covert means that hardly anyone understands, means that made Diavolus pick a "religion" even though he insists that he's effectively not religious -- let's call it Magic. It works like a charm! Yeah?

 Quote:
Group A does apply magic and successfully gains worldly success.

Good so far? In my music example, these are the people who study notation while playing the instrument, and get good at it.

 Quote:
Group B, which is far greater, applies magic too and fails at gaining worldly success.

They aren't really applying it. These would be people who can read music, but don't actually practice. They could follow along in the songbook, but when they go to actually play, they sound like those kids whose piano lessons are wasted.

 Quote:
But group C, which is the far greatest group doesn't know a thing about magic or isn't interested at all and they still do gain worldly success.

Lots and lots of musicians can play some songs they like and even compose free-hand, without any knowledge of musical notation at all. And the really great ones can read it, but don't waste much brain on it because they can play well without thinking about the "Music For Dummies" aspect anymore.

The old grimoires aren't the key to magic, they are just someone else's crib sheet. The important stuff isn't in the cheat sheet, just the stuff that's arbitrary and less-used and harder to memorize.

 Quote:
Group A could also be using Greater Magic, though I don't (personally) see the need to do so.

Lesser Magic is the actual work, programming others. Greater Magic is self-programming. The main purpose of ritual is to put yourself into a state where glamour comes more naturally. A good way to think of this might be, moving yourself from Group A to the best version of Group C, a benefit of extended and experimental practice.

First control your own mind; then controlling others will be easy.

The ambition of Napoleon and Caesar pales before that which could not rest until it had seized the minds of men and controlled even their unborn thoughts ...
-- Robert W Chambers
_________________________
Behold, I send you forth as wolves among sheep; eat Lambchop for supper and fuck Bo Peep!

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#45983 - 01/06/11 11:46 AM Re: Pathworking [Re: Aklo]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Again, we're creating a bubble here. If it comes natural to many and they don't need to call it magic or resort to GBM self-programming, those that do are holding on to straws instead of relying on their own potential.

Mind you, I understand that others might desire to glamor up the natural. I just don't feel the need. To me, magic is akin to Dumbo's feather. I can fly without.

D.

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#45999 - 01/06/11 04:49 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: Diavolo]
manofsteel Offline
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Registered: 05/08/10
Posts: 153
Loc: Indiana U.S.
Perfect, on another note I just want to say I feel that if good luck or great things come to you easily than you are a lucky one. I have been lucky in the past and then reality and life smacked me in the face harder than hell, and a lot more then once. I will just say that I am a much better person living through the things I did than had I not. My understanding of lide and people and what I am reallly made of is more apparent to me and I know where I stand. I love and protect family "which includes my best friends". Everyone else either likes me or don't and that is my life. Love it or hate it I don't care. I would still love to win the lottery though.
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#46011 - 01/06/11 06:31 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: manofsteel]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
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Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
We are all probably better off for the things that we have done than not done. \:\)

And wouldn't we all love to win the lottery? I think the first thing I'd do is take my kids to the store and let them pick out the one thing they've always wanted but I couldn't get. \:D
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I am a ghost.x
http://othermindx.blogspot.com

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#46054 - 01/07/11 11:13 AM Re: Pathworking [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
manofsteel Offline
member


Registered: 05/08/10
Posts: 153
Loc: Indiana U.S.
I think the first thing I would do is find an island and buy it. I would be my own government and noone could influence my family but myself. That could be scary but at least if it fails it is all my fault.
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Amongst the sheep emerges a wolf.

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#46068 - 01/07/11 01:40 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: Diavolo]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Again, we're creating a bubble here. If it comes natural to many and they don't need to call it magic or resort to GBM self-programming, those that do are holding on to straws instead of relying on their own potential.

Mind you, I understand that others might desire to glamor up the natural. I just don't feel the need. To me, magic is akin to Dumbo's feather. I can fly without.

You sound like me talking about 600C atheists using the term "Satanism" for the same reason. ;\) Glamorizing is, well, more glamorous.

 Originally Posted By: M.A.A., Black Magic
If one assumes that one is an independent entity moving about in the OU, and that one cannot merge one’s consciousness with it - that all attempts to do so are mere illusions and delusions - then one approaches the OU as a tool to be used for personal satisfaction. Natural/objective religionists are regarded as irrational, and natural/objective atheists are regarded as ignorant.

The non-natural/objectivist makes a careful study of the OU from his self-realized external perspective, and he includes in that study consideration for the subjective, metaphysical forces that influence human disposition and behavior (i.e. others’ SUs). He then applies his knowledge to entities and events in the OU and through this medium to others’ SUs, to control or at least influence events and perceptions in accordance with his will. This is defined by the Temple of Set as Lesser Black Magic (LBM).

It will be understood that competence in this art gives the practitioner enormous power to affect situations in ways that could scarcely be understood by those involved, even if they were aware of the various forces being brought to bear on them. It thus follows that rigorous education in ethics is an absolute necessity for would-be Black Magicians - else through ignorance, immaturity, or impulsiveness they bring about unjustified or even unnecessary damage or destruction. As has been noted, the OU is in a state of natural equilibrium, and any adjustment to it risks disrupting that equilibrium. Some adjustments are tolerable, and some are even beneficial. But some which seem positive at first glance may be harmful in a larger perspective, as in the extermination of “harmful” mountain lions which ultimately results in over-population and mass starvation of their natural prey.

The adept practitioner of LBM is thus not a crude predator; he is an adjustor, a manipulator, a meta-physician. He does not practice his art for petty egotism, but rather for the greater satisfaction he derives in the experience and exercise of his wisdom - which as a by-product invariably satisfies whatever material goals he may deem appropriate to the situation. (#6D, #6I, #6K, #6R, #6S, #23)

Thus LBM is significantly more than just tricking or deceiving or manipulating your way to a superficially-desired end. The Black Magician is in effect rearranging a given set of things in the OU - a sort of "Klein Bottle distortion" of normal equilibrium, which eventually settles into a new OU equilibrium.

And LBM is also aware of & sensitive to the fact that it is using OU tools to influence others' SUs, in this case their perceptions of the OU. This is why I use stage magic as an apt [and well-named!] illustration. If you just called it "stage sensory illusion", you'd be missing a key part of its reality.

Stage magic is "harmless" because its goals are just entertainments, and by its name it alerts the audience that they are going to be operated upon.

LBM takes on more serious & consequential goals, and doesn't reveal itself. [One of the big mistakes of PSYOP was its advertisement of its name & unit identities, duh. Now the Army is trying to close the barn door after everyone's left, but of course it's absurdly too late, duh again.
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Michael A. Aquino

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#46069 - 01/07/11 01:44 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: manofsteel]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: manofsteel
I think the first thing I would do is find an island and buy it. I would be my own government and noone could influence my family but myself. That could be scary but at least if it fails it is all my fault.

This has been tried before, which is rather an interesting story.
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Michael A. Aquino

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#46098 - 01/07/11 03:08 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: Aklo]
Autodidact Offline
member


Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 428
 Originally Posted By: Aklo
"The real witches were sleeping with the executioners".


I just choked on my coffee. Dude, this is priceless - mind if I swipe it?
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An nescis, mi fili, quantilla prudentia mundus regatur?

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#46101 - 01/07/11 03:12 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: Autodidact]
Aklo Offline
member


Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 158
 Quote:
mind if I swipe it?

Help yourself. I got it from LaVey's Bible though, so credit him (or whoever his source might have been?)
_________________________
Behold, I send you forth as wolves among sheep; eat Lambchop for supper and fuck Bo Peep!

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#46171 - 01/07/11 08:10 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Aklo Offline
member


Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 158
 Quote:
You sound like me talking about 600C atheists

I noticed that, and I was hoping you would step in and spread a little clarity. Thanks!

 Quote:
And LBM is also aware of & sensitive to the fact that it is using OU tools to influence others' SUs, in this case their perceptions of the OU. This is why I use stage magic as an apt [and well-named!] illustration. If you just called it "stage sensory illusion", you'd be missing a key part of its reality.

Stage magic is "harmless" because its goals are just entertainments, and by its name it alerts the audience that they are going to be operated upon.

LBM takes on more serious & consequential goals, and doesn't reveal itself.

Very good! This is part of why I don't like the Thelemite "Magick" affectation. The idea is to distinguish "real magic" from that of the stage, and I don't think that such a distinction is very useful. For me the difference between black magic and other kinds of tricks is much like the difference between prestidigitation and illusionism, or stage magic and street magic. In other words, it's all the same thing in essence, the difference is in the goals and circumstances. Arguing a real distinction would be stressing style over substance, in this sense.

When I read your fortune, I make a point of calling it a "card trick". The fact that it works itself, and requires only a good memory and a quick wit, doesn't really make it that different from most of the pure-presto card tricks I prefer. They are all like that!

The mind wants certain things. If you give it what it wants, you can get it to do amazing things. This is magic.

_________________________
Behold, I send you forth as wolves among sheep; eat Lambchop for supper and fuck Bo Peep!

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#46970 - 01/17/11 10:36 PM Re: Pathworking [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
manofsteel Offline
member


Registered: 05/08/10
Posts: 153
Loc: Indiana U.S.
Yes I can imagine but hey, at this point maybe it can be an island for fun and carefree without any government and we can all have a ball. Just sounds good I guess.
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Amongst the sheep emerges a wolf.

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