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#45936 - 01/05/11 11:05 AM New Huck Finn reprint - No more "N" word.
Fnord Fnord senior member Registered: 01/11/10 Posts: 2092 Loc: Texas	On the one hand, I certainly see the need to put negatives in the past and move forward. On the other hand, the "N" word in this particular work is a character in itself that speaks to the whole tenor and context of the book. What say you, 600 Club? The removal of the "N" word from Huck Finn, good or bad idea? Why? HERE is the article I read about it, FYI. For the record, the issue seems to be that this book is seen as inappropriate for teaching in school due to the "N" word's proliferation in the tome (to the tune of 219 times). My thought is that the book should be taught at higher levels of education so that it can be appreciated by those with the intelligence and/or maturity to keep it in context. Changing the book so as not to offend sets a dangerous precedent IMHO. _________________________ From the ashes arisen
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#45937 - 01/05/11 11:21 AM Re: New Huck Finn reprint - No more "N" word. [Re: Fnord]
Jake999 Jake999 senior member Registered: 11/02/08 Posts: 2230	My personal take on it is that it should be left intact. The work is considered a classic in American literature, and describes an America that existed at that time, warts and all. There was prejudice and there were racially influenced names... we also see INJUN JOE in Mark Twain's novels about the Hannibal Missouri area in which he wrote. I am sensitive to the idea of using racial perjoratives. I grew up in an area that was approximately 85% black... whites were definitely the minority. But to basically censor or change a book's wording because of popular culture's dislike of a term, simply based on being politically correct is as bad as Germany refusing to teach the realities of the Nazi era and banning any mention of it in the press. We have a negative racial history. Period. We held slaves. Period. These are things that we can't really do anything about. But we CAN do something positive in this case and simply add a glossary of terms and short explanation of their use in context, listing the terms "nigger" and "injun" as simply colloquialisms of the time that today are considered derogatory and not to be used in polite society. _________________________ Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.
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#45938 - 01/05/11 11:25 AM Re: New Huck Finn reprint - No more "N" word. [Re: Fnord]
mabon2010 mabon2010 member Registered: 09/29/10 Posts: 259 Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...	Dangerous because there is a mentality out there to rewrite history and the American Constitution. Anyone want to help rewrite the Satanic Bible to make it more Jesus and Christian? Praise the Lord! Bad idea. Bad news. _________________________ Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.
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#45941 - 01/05/11 01:25 PM Re: New Huck Finn reprint - No more "N" word. [Re: Fnord]
Autodidact Autodidact member Registered: 01/23/10 Posts: 428	Originally Posted By: Fnord The removal of the "N" word from Huck Finn, good or bad idea? Why? Not only removing the word "nigger", but "... a new version of the book, this time scrubbed clean of the sensitive words." I understand "injun" will be replaced with "Native American", and "white" will be replaced with "melanin-challenged", which is clearly double-plus ungood. I'm of two minds on this. A dumber society is clearly less convenient and more work for me. Hiding reality and ignoring history causes confusion and communication problems, at a bare minimum. OTOH, making stupid the norm makes it easier for me and mine to rule over them. People get the government they deserve. Who am I to complain about the world they want to contain themselves in? _________________________ An nescis, mi fili, quantilla prudentia mundus regatur?
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#45942 - 01/05/11 01:51 PM Re: New Huck Finn reprint - No more "N" word. [Re: Autodidact]
Diavolo Diavolo RIP stalker Registered: 09/02/07 Posts: 4997	What I wonder is who exactly is having most problems with it; those formerly called niggers and injun or those that used to call them that. If we have to replace each word or idea ever written that could offend someone, we sure have a lot of work ahead of us. People are trying to be so PC, or demanding it, it becomes mind-numbing. It reminds me of some TV-quiz here a while ago. Some politician that took part in it was asked which nation Voltaire considered the most disgusting on the face of Earth. The three answers he could choose from where; the Jews, Turks or Flemish. While the guy knew the correct answer was the Jews but afraid they might freak out, he decided to play it safe and answer: the Turks. What it triggered was a lot of controversy, anger from Turks and he even received death-threats. Funny creatures those humans. D.
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#45962 - 01/05/11 11:36 PM Re: New Huck Finn reprint - No more "N" word. [Re: Fnord]
6Satan6Archist6 6Satan6Archist6 stalker Registered: 10/16/08 Posts: 2509	I think Jake pretty much summed it up with his post. This really is just a stupid attempt to try and remove axle-grease from a white shag carpet with the hopes it will be like it never happened in the first place. That book, which is a product of the time in which it was written, is considered to be a literary classic - regardless of the words used - and should be left intact. What's next; "To Kill A Mocking Bird"? Roots? Ridiculous. _________________________ No gods. No masters.
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#45965 - 01/06/11 12:27 AM Re: New Huck Finn reprint - No more "N" word. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Fist Fist veteran member Registered: 08/31/07 Posts: 1453 Loc: B'mo Cautious MF	History should not be "cleaned up" for the modern audience. It should be told in all of it's barbaric glory. _________________________ I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.
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#45977 - 01/06/11 10:39 AM Re: New Huck Finn reprint - No more "N" word. [Re: Fist]
Opacus Opacus stranger Registered: 10/21/10 Posts: 23 Loc: Hell	My problem with this is that once "they" get started changing things "they" don't like "they" never stop. First it is racial terms, then "they" might decide it would be better or PC to start changing political terms; Give 'em an inch.... O.
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#45987 - 01/06/11 12:33 PM Re: New Huck Finn reprint - No more "N" word. [Re: Opacus]
Asmedious Asmedious Moderator senior member Registered: 09/02/07 Posts: 1823 Loc: New York	It never seizes to amaze me how so many people allow words to manipulate them. If anything is offensive regarding the “N word,” is that people have the audacity to say “N” instead of “Nigger.” It’s a fucking word. If you fear the word, then you don’t deserve to use it, not even a letter suggesting which word you fear. If someone acts like a “Nigger,” then you can call them a brain surgeon, but everyone will still see him as a Nigger. I am of the opinion that words do not hurt, nor are they hurtful. What hurts most is the truth. Call me anything you will, if I do not find any truth behind the word, it doesn’t phase me. Call an intelligent, successful and confident black person a “Nigger,” and the only one that puts down is the person using the word. If a term in no way reflects the reality of a person’s circumstance then I don’t see how it could have any internal affect on them. _________________________ "The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."
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#45996 - 01/06/11 02:49 PM Re: New Huck Finn reprint - No more "N" word. [Re: Asmedious]
Nemesis Nemesis senior member Registered: 09/01/07 Posts: 2175 Loc: US	Since black men in the US tend to be pretty insecure, it's not surprising that a mere word would immediately put them on the defensive. All one has to do is watch a rap video to see how they try to overcompensate by portraying themselves as badasses, pimps, and playas, driving ridiculous cars and living in homes that could house a couple boat loads of Tamil refugees. With education comes success, and confidence in oneself tends to go along with both. The exceptions to this being Rev. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. They're cool with gays, but don't you DARE call them (Al & Jesse) niggers! _________________________ Nothing is sacred.
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#46004 - 01/06/11 05:19 PM Re: New Huck Finn reprint - No more "N" word. [Re: Nemesis]
manofsteel manofsteel member Registered: 05/08/10 Posts: 153 Loc: Indiana U.S.	Damn, screw the reasoning of this thread. That is a lot of people on one fucking boat. I can't even count them, must be going somewhere important!!!! $\:\)$ Edited by manofsteel (01/06/11 05:32 PM) _________________________ Amongst the sheep emerges a wolf.
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#46008 - 01/06/11 05:47 PM Re: New Huck Finn reprint - No more "N" word. [Re: Nemesis]
SkaffenAmtiskaw SkaffenAmtiskaw veteran member Registered: 06/24/09 Posts: 1318	A couple of years back Jospeh Conrad came under attack, several years after his demise, at the hands of one Chinua Achebe, who found Conrad's liberal use of the term 'nigger' in many of his books to be distasteful. Leave it to a Nigerian, with little knowledge of how ubiquitous racial prejudice was in turn-of-the-century Europe, to fuck it up. Can anybody imagine the book "The African Gentleman of Colour of the Narcissus" and how catchy it would be? The term 'nigger', by the way, originated as something far from offensive. I know all this wikipedia bullshit gets on everybody's nerves, but Conrad was not considered racist by his contemporaries. If we were to make a headcount, most of the founding fathers of America held slaves. I don't see people running around calling them racists. It's just quarreling a point for the sake of the quarrel. And now they're going after Huckleberry Finn? Makes me gag. People who support this should be banned from public libraries for ever. It's tantamount to book burning. Over here, certain children's songs have been excised from song books due to potentially offensive racial archetypes. Go figure. _________________________ "I'd rather be right than consistent" - Winston Churchill
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#46023 - 01/06/11 10:21 PM Re: New Huck Finn reprint - No more "N" word. [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Nyte Nyte member Registered: 10/19/09 Posts: 380 Loc: Ohio	"Political correctness" has all ready ruined so many good things it's not even funny. And now Huckleberry Finn. Sad day that we have to worry about a word offending everyone and anyone. I say, if you don't want it to affect you (any slur), then don't be one. Simple as that. I'm curious though. Nemesis, you brought up a good point to the rap videos but what I don't understand is why is it ok for them to go around "Nigga dis" and "Nigga dat" but it's not ok to use the word in a classic book under the correct context? It's ok for the suburban whitebred trash driving mommy and daddy's 4 door sedan run around lookin' "gangsta" and talking the slang, but it's not ok to have a word used properly, according to the culture of that time, in a BOOK? What the hell is wrong with this picture? This country use to be able to laugh at itself with all it's mixed cultures, poke fun at each other or even themselves without becoming offended, and enjoy the differences. Now, everyone gets "offended" at the smallest thing, even a word. I've seen it too often, with lyrics for music lately (a song that refered to Helen Keller) to people having an issue with Chief Wahoo (the Cleveland Indians mascot). People need to get over themselves all ready. _________________________ If only just for today.....
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#46032 - 01/06/11 11:34 PM Re: New Huck Finn reprint - No more "N" word. [Re: Fnord]
mike616joaquin mike616joaquin stranger Registered: 11/25/10 Posts: 8 Loc: London, England	The realms of political correctness know no bounds. A classic literary work is a classic literary work. Period. Who has the right to alter or censor work which is perceived, quite correctly as a perfect example within its field? To try and shine the light of what's socially or politically acceptable in the 21st Century onto a work that originated in a totally different era is beyond lunacy. I perceive the continued enforcement of political correctness as nothing more than a smokescreen for governmental censorship of any work which for whatever reason they find distasteful. Newspeak anyone? 2011 or 1984? Orwell knew this was coming and it has finally manifested. What if the smile of the Mona Lisa then becomes offensive to some intellectually deficient waste of DNA? Shall we paint a mask over it? I have grown up in London, England. People here are so accustomed to racial terminology that any mentions of “nigger” or “nigga”, depending on the context in which they are being employed have lost their value to shock. To summarize, this unqualified censorship removes the ability to observe the attitudes and social norms of that period and of the author. If that doesn't alter the perception of the work I don't know what would. I am disgusted by the enforcement of this policy.
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#46033 - 01/06/11 11:45 PM Re: New Huck Finn reprint - No more "N" word. [Re: Nyte]
mike616joaquin mike616joaquin stranger Registered: 11/25/10 Posts: 8 Loc: London, England	Originally Posted By: Nyte " I'm curious though. Nemesis, you brought up a good point to the rap videos but what I don't understand is why is it ok for them to go around "Nigga dis" and "Nigga dat" but it's not ok to use the word in a classic book under the correct context? This is an excellent point and one which is frequently cited when debating the "N" word. From my understanding of the "N" word, it carries with it 2 variations and 2 separate implications. For example "Nigger" is a derogatory statement being produced by a white person to affect the "victim" in a negative way i.e to reduce that person's self worth via skin colour. The second meaning which is so frequently observed in rap music is "nigga", and has been utilised as a expression of affection. Do I understand why this is so prevalent within black culture? I couldn't assist with an answer.
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#46043 - 01/07/11 08:52 AM Re: New Huck Finn reprint - No more "N" word. [Re: mike616joaquin]
Autodidact Autodidact member Registered: 01/23/10 Posts: 428	Originally Posted By: mike616joaquin To try and shine the light of what's socially or politically acceptable in the 21st Century onto a work that originated in a totally different era is beyond lunacy. While I agree it shouldn't be done (despite my previous tongue-in-cheek comment above), it's perfectly understandable. The fact is that this is a time-honored method of pushing one's own sociopolitical agenda. Note that malice is not required here; the most common form of "benevolent" agenda being an honest, but misguided, attempt to "do what's best for the children." Changing history is as easy as changing what's taught to children. _________________________ An nescis, mi fili, quantilla prudentia mundus regatur?
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#46048 - 01/07/11 10:03 AM Re: New Huck Finn reprint - No more "N" word. [Re: Autodidact]
mike616joaquin mike616joaquin stranger Registered: 11/25/10 Posts: 8 Loc: London, England	Originally Posted By: Autodidact Originally Posted By: mike616joaquin To try and shine the light of what's socially or politically acceptable in the 21st Century onto a work that originated in a totally different era is beyond lunacy. Changing history is as easy as changing what's taught to children. Totally in agreement with you on all counts.
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#46056 - 01/07/11 11:21 AM Re: New Huck Finn reprint - No more "N" word. [Re: Nyte]
manofsteel manofsteel member Registered: 05/08/10 Posts: 153 Loc: Indiana U.S.	Screw politically correct. We don't have military fighting overseas and "everygoddamnwherelse" so we have to sorry about every word we say, and yaeh I made a new word. Freedom of speech and people understanding that was just the times. People know who they are I hope, if someone called me a cracker today I would not give a shit and I won"t tomorrow either. By the way, 50 years from now I won't expect an apology or anyone to feel bad for me either. Be adults and quit whining for fuck's sake. _________________________ Amongst the sheep emerges a wolf.
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#46058 - 01/07/11 11:31 AM Re: New Huck Finn reprint - No more "N" word. [Re: manofsteel]
Aklo Aklo member Registered: 08/03/10 Posts: 158	There's a lot of money that revolves around the whining, though. Just in this case, the conflict is going to sell the new version of the book and also boost sales for the old version. This will increase racial tension a wee bit, reducing cooperation and creating another kind of market too. Keeping us divided, especially over irrelevant issues, is a big part of ruling us. A whole lot of people are standing around the water cooler today talking about this one. And that means they aren't talking about how their insurance costs have gone up, for example. We have more troop movement right now than we ever did under George W, but the media isn't showing us any body-bags. Instead they are focused on skin-color again, holding their fingers up in scare quotes around the letter "N". And our off-white president is nodding and smiling and talking about "bringing people together". It's a funny world. Rule it or be ruled by it. _________________________ Behold, I send you forth as wolves among sheep; eat Lambchop for supper and fuck Bo Peep!
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#46064 - 01/07/11 12:38 PM Re: New Huck Finn reprint - No more "N" word. [Re: Diavolo]
Trapdoor Spider Trapdoor Spider Banned Nazi. stranger Registered: 01/05/11 Posts: 34	Quote: If we have to replace each word or idea ever written that could offend someone, we sure have a lot of work ahead of us. People are trying to be so PC, or demanding it, it becomes mind-numbing. That's a great point. "They" are working toward that. They have made it, in some people, so that one is soo well trained that, even in the heat of an angry rant, words like nigger aren't even produced in the mind. You can't be politically incorrect because you don't know how to be. It's all part of plan. And i'm willing to bet my own blood that someone from Bnai Brith or the NAACP is behind it. (edit) You know, this how full of bull shit this is. Look, you listen to any rap song, and nigger is in every other sentance. This has nothing to do with the word nigger, this is about altering the perception of the world the way it was. Someone is up to something and it has nothing to do with people being offended by a word. Wasn't it in 1984 when Orwell wrote those who control the present control the past, those who control the past control the future? Edited by Trapdoor Spider (01/07/11 01:21 PM) _________________________ "Why of the sheep do you not learn peace?" "Because I don't want you to shear my fleece." W. Blake
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#46083 - 01/07/11 02:25 PM Re: New Huck Finn reprint - No more "N" word. [Re: Aklo]
Autodidact Autodidact member Registered: 01/23/10 Posts: 428	This reminds me of the Louis C.K. skit about this. I think it's in "Chewed Up". (paraphrased (probably badly)) "When some blond lady on CNN says 'the N word' then I think 'oh she means nigger'. Now you're making me say it, in my head. Why don't you fuckin' say it? Take some responsibility for the shitty words you want to use." _________________________ An nescis, mi fili, quantilla prudentia mundus regatur?
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#46235 - 01/08/11 01:02 PM Re: New Huck Finn reprint - No more "N" word. [Re: Nemesis]
Fist Fist veteran member Registered: 08/31/07 Posts: 1453 Loc: B'mo Cautious MF	Quote: Since black men in the US tend to be pretty insecure, it's not surprising that a mere word would immediately put them on the defensive. All one has to do is watch a rap video to see how they try to overcompensate by portraying themselves as badasses, pimps, and playas, driving ridiculous cars and living in homes that could house a couple boat loads of Tamil refugees. Nailed it! And that is because these guys grow up without a good male roll model to show them how a man is suppose to act. _________________________ I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.
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#46384 - 01/10/11 11:04 AM Re: New Huck Finn reprint - No more "N" word. [Re: Fist]
manofsteel manofsteel member Registered: 05/08/10 Posts: 153 Loc: Indiana U.S.	They turn into what they hated when they were a kid cause that's all they know. Plus they saw they're mama going through hell and grew up hating men. Any way I think it all goes back to being politicallly correct which I say again is bullshit. That's the way it was, you can't change history no matter how you sugar coat it. _________________________ Amongst the sheep emerges a wolf.
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