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#46302 - 01/09/11 04:21 PM Time to update exectution procedures in USA
mabon2010 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
I support executions.

The recent massacre in the USA highlights a need for the USA to update its procedures for executions.

Method : should be hanging.

Time : from sentence to execution one month.

Let the money that is wasted keeping these garbage alive for over a decade be better spent on the best lawyers for them so that justice is really served. One appeal within one week of the sentence and then sentence is carried out within three weeks after the appeal. With hanging multiple people can be hung at once to clear the backlog.

In the case of the 10-year-old who shot his mother dead in the USA, he and other children like him should also be executed. Age should not be a barrier to executions. In Britain we hung children for stealing a loaf of bread.

The last execution in Britain happened on 13 August 1964, about one month after the sentence on 7 July 1964.

It is time for USA to be tough on crime.


Edited by mabon2010 (01/09/11 04:23 PM)
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#46307 - 01/09/11 04:33 PM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: mabon2010]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I think it is easy to support executions but everything is easy when you can have someone else do the job.

It would be much more interesting if they'd have a work-role for all that support it, so they can do the job themselves from time to time. I'd be curious how many would still support it when they'd have to hang a kid. And clean up the mess of course.

D.

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#46312 - 01/09/11 04:48 PM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: Diavolo]
mabon2010 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Diavolo

Personally I would have no problems assisting. Question is it needs trained professionals who know what they are doing, since a novice like me would screw up and cause unnecessary suffering.

I see no difference in supporting executions in my name than those wars that send soldiers to kill in my name, to make me and my nation safe.
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#46313 - 01/09/11 04:55 PM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: mabon2010]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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Yeah right, we all can do anything when it's in the abstract but I don't meet many that would actually say "Gimme the rope and I'll hang the little critter". Especially not when they are not personally and emotionally affected.

Most people I know have problems killing a mouse, let alone a bigger animal. Let's not even start about kids.

Soldier are not send to war in your name or to keep you safe. They are send there to serve the interest of the government. Your safety isn't much of an issue to them.

D.

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#46315 - 01/09/11 05:04 PM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: Diavolo]
mabon2010 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Diavolo

Perhaps it is in the personality of the individul to put emotions aside and get on with the job they are allocated. There are former soldiers on 600Club who know the experience of setting aside their feelings and getting on with the job in hand. For the professional it is just a job, a nasty job, which they get on and do.

The Government act in my name, and I voted them in, Anything the Government decides is done in the name of the people, which happens to include me. This is why in America they have court cases of People v...

I agree that politicians act in their own interests, but officially all they do is done in the name of the people they serve.
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#46316 - 01/09/11 05:16 PM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: mabon2010]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Look, I will give you some good advice. Go to a farm and participate in the killing of their animals. Not the modern "humane" manner but the way they did it when I was young; the sledgehammer. Or start with little pigs. They were taken with their hind legs and smashed into concrete. I can tell you from experience that the first are not a fun experience, even when you put your emotions aside. Especially not when they tend to scream.

If you can manage that, ask anyone who has been in a war and had to shoot a kid, and if he did find that an interesting experience he would like to repeat.

In theory this all sounds easy and we all can do it without blinking our eyes but I'm pretty sure practice would make it feel quite different. And not many would stand in line for a rerun.

Personally I don't think you're up for it. If, you'd not be a Luciferian to begin with.

D.


Edited by Diavolo (01/09/11 05:18 PM)

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#46318 - 01/09/11 05:24 PM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: Diavolo]
mabon2010 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Diavolo

I agree with you that death is an unpleasant and traumatic experience for all involved.

But we all are indirectly involved in the bloody slaughter of animals and in their deaths when we eat meat products produced on our dinner table. Someone has just killed those animals for us, and we supported them by buying their meat products.

You are correct that as a Luciferian I will have some interesting challenges, but in my path there are also ways to address those challenges.
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#46321 - 01/09/11 05:53 PM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: mabon2010]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Hanging would be a step backwards concerning methods of execution, not an "update".

The appeals process can take a very long time so to expect it to be done within a week is absurd. And many people feel that an expedited execution (hooray for alliteration) is too easy and would like to see the condemned suffer time in prison before reaching their ultimate destination. There is also the matter of wrongful convictions. Which do happen a lot more often than many people may think.

Children at that age will not be executed because they are not considered to be culpable for their actions. Though, it most instances, once someone reaches the age of 13 they can be tried as adult. This was a legislation introduced after the two kids shot up their classmates in Jonesboro, Arkansas some years back.

"Tough on crime" is nothing more than a phrase used by politicians seeking to be elected. The fact of the matter is that punishment for a crime is seldom a deterrent and people are going to do what they are going to do regardless of the consequences.

Just a few thoughts on the matter.
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#46327 - 01/09/11 06:15 PM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: mabon2010]
Harvey Offline
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Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 39
It could be argued that America is tough on crime. If we apply the label of 'Terror' to a person's actions - and they seem to be popping up everywhere these days: Julian Assange, Anti-War Demonstrators and HO-MO-Sex-u-als [It's bad for the troops :D] for example - then we can skip the lengthy trials, motions, appeals, the burden of proof, and get straight to it.

Presumably there has been no serious crime in Britain since 1964? ;\)

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#46331 - 01/09/11 06:36 PM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
mabon2010 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ 6Satan6Archist6

In making my suggestions I am:

1. Adding some humanity to the execution process in the USA.
2. Making the execution process more efficient.
3. Addressing the weakness of potential miscarriage of justice by the USA providing a low quality public defender of the accused.

HUMANITY
The existing execution procedure which is lethal injection is cruel in my opinion. Hanging is quick, your neck is broken so you will feel nothing, then whilst unconscious you suffocate, with death within 20 minutes. No pain. Lethal injection is open to mistakes which could lead to suffering, though since the convict is paralysed their agony will not be apparent to the witness who sees them dying in apparent peace.

Having a convict in a living torment of a decade of more in a cell, with death always present, in solitary confinement, with no access to even proper sunlight is living torture.

Retribution is a major quality of American justice, and taking the life away from the convict is adequate enough punishment. Torture of a decade or more imprisonment is torture and unjustified.

EFFICIENCY
Keeping a convict in prison before death for a decade or more costs money, as does a lengthy and trivial appeals system.

The American public deserves swift justice for the convict at minimum cost to the taxpayer.

With lethal injection it is a slow complex system. The hanging process you could clear all of death row by multiple hangings at one time, like a production line, within a month or so.

JUSTICE
The American system provides low quality and poorly paid defenders for the accused. The money saved by cutting out the bullsh*t of multiple appeals and looking after a prisoner on death row for more than ten years can be thrown into the best defence team for the accused, who in the initial fight and the one and only appeal will give the prosecution an adequate enough fight to wipe out any flaws in the case. If the case is lost and the appeal despite top defenders being on the case, then in my opinion the case is proven and the convict dies within a month of sentence.

CHILDREN
Obviously I am not supporting the idea of executing children for trivial things like stealing a loaf of bread. I am talking about murder. That kid who killed his mother recently with a shot to the head knew what he was doing, aged 10, he had a dozen guns in his room; he had probably shot dead animals and seen what happens when guns are fired at people in television and cinema. The kid knows the effects of shooting a gun at another person. He is death sentence material. No mercy.

TOUGH ON CRIME
Execution in my opinion gets rid of bad material, it is not deterrent, more dealing with rubbish rather than wasting money on prison for them.



Edited by mabon2010 (01/09/11 06:38 PM)
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#46332 - 01/09/11 06:42 PM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: mabon2010]
mabon2010 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Harvey

I am talking about the simple criminal justice system rather than the political bullsh*t that President Obama and associates indulge in.

Britain went soft in 1964 - terrible crimes have been committed and are being committed. Our weakness disgusts me.
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#46341 - 01/09/11 07:56 PM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: mabon2010]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
"Killing is killing whether done for duty, profit or fun." - Richard "The Nightstalker" Ramirez

If the execution is meant to be a punishment then why worry about whether or not it is "humane"? If I were to be a witness at an execution it would be because they wronged me and I would hope that the person did die in extreme agony and pain - preferably over a long period of time.

Death from hanging isn't always instantaneous or without suffering sometimes the neck doesn't snap immediately and death is caused by asphyxiation. Other times death results from the head being removed from the spinal cord, which some people have considered to be "inhumane".

Even if someone does have a really good legal team they can still get convicted. On the other hand they can also walk free What should matter in a case are the facts, regardless of how much someone is paying their attorney to present them.

The condemned are given the chance to seek multiple appeals for good reason, basically the idea is that once is not "good enough". I for one am thankful for this because it might work in my favor one day. And if you were wrongfully convicted of a crime, sentenced to death and only allowed one appeal, I am willing to bet that you would not quietly accept your fate.

I never said that the kid who shot is mother didn't know what they were doing all I did was explain the attitude some people when it comes to children being prosecuted. Personally, I believe that a 10 year old does indeed know what it means to take to a life and should prosecuted to the fullest extent.
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#46357 - 01/10/11 01:39 AM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: mabon2010]
Nyte Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: mabon2010
Britain went soft in 1964 - terrible crimes have been committed and are being committed. Our weakness disgusts me.


Hmm, and you feel the need to tell the US how to change their own system?

Mind you, I don't like ALL of our current justice system, but there are reasons for it. I also don't go around telling other countries "how" to cure their own ailing systems either.

I agree Americans need to find a way to fix a good many things in our own system. I do, however, like the idea that we can "fight" for our lives should we be wrongfully imprisoned. A month may not be sufficient time to acquire all the evidence we need to clear our own name. That's been proven more than once, and because we do have the kind of system we have. You don't live here, so you haven't had the experience to pass such judgments on our justice system. I don't live in Great Britain, therefore, I WON'T pass judgment on your system.

If nothing else, take away a learning point from things many other countries, including the US, have done. Don't try to "fix" things for other countries that you know little to nothing about.

As for your comment about "getting on with the job"....I'd love to see you say that (or better yet, get on with the job) if it were your own child hanging from the ropes at only 10 years old.
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#46374 - 01/10/11 08:36 AM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: mabon2010]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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 Quote:
Retribution is a major quality of American justice, and taking the life away from the convict is adequate enough punishment. Torture of a decade or more imprisonment is torture and unjustified.


Are you talking from experience? Have you ever watched someone you cared deeply about being brutalized and then murdered?
Personally I am lucky because nothing like that has ever happened to me, but if it did I can imagine that I would feel that "Torture of a decade or more imprisonment," would not be nearly enough.

In regards to people comparing the slaughtering of animals to executing violent criminals:

I'm one of those people that if given the opportunity, I will catch of fly and throw it outside rather then killing it. At work that's become a bit of a joke because I have actually grabbed fly swatters from people and put the offending bug outside. (Interestingly my Very Christian coworkers have often gone out of their way to step on a bug).

For me there is a huge difference between killing an animal vs killing someone who has purposefully caused great harm to others merely for the thrill or to satisfy some kind of need within themselves. Yet, I realize that somewhere deep inside of me there is something that has the ability to commit just about every kind of offense that has ever been commited.

Could I kill someone? To be honest, I donít know myself that well. In my mind I can clearly see myself being able to kill someone very slowly and painfully in the name of revenge for certain things and even enjoy it.
However, there is absolutely no way of knowing for certain, since Iíve never had cause to do such a thing.

I can also see myself pushed to a point in a war setting where I might commit all kinds of things that are considered atrocities, and still be able to live with myself afterwards.

BUT...realistically I know myself well enough that I am talking out of my ass since Iíve never purposefully hurt anyone. Ever. Quite the opposite actually. I am a strong believer in ďThe human contract,Ē and will go out of my way to help someone in need if I am able to, even putting myself at risk.

So could I kill someone whom I thought deserved it? I simply do not know. I hope that I could, but maybe I couldnít if it actually came down to it.
One thing I know for sure. If I couldnít do it, I would be very disappointed in myself afterwards.
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#46390 - 01/10/11 11:34 AM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: Nyte]
mabon2010 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Nyte

OTHER NATIONS
I am British and I am writing my opinion to an international Satanist forum. I am entitled to my opinions about other nations, just as you or anyone is about my nation. I am not telling your nation to do anything, if I was I would be going to the decision maker such as President Obama rather than 600Club.

Sure I am not American, and I only visited your nation once to meet Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse at Disney World as a child. I like America and Donald Duck. I think your execution system sucks, so I offer opinion and suggestions as an outsider.

Britain does have an investment in the execution industry of your citizens as we are supplying you with the drugs to kill them - 176 Horn Lane, Acton, London to be precise, along with helping people to drive safely.

If you feel I am still unqualified to pass judgement on your execution system then if you privatise it, I will invest in it, as I think with my efficiency improvements there is good money to be made in the killing machine of the American justice system.

CHILDREN
Your concerns that I would participate in the execution of my own child is a non-event. I won't be having any of those nasty creatures. Hail myself, there is no room for children in my devotion to my own legend.


Edited by mabon2010 (01/10/11 11:38 AM)
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