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#46397 - 01/10/11 11:43 AM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: mabon2010]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
You have to realize a couple of things about crime.

There are two major motivations in crime.

The first motivation has emotional roots: rape, murder, manslaughterÖ; all those pretty things that happen when someone feels angry or sadÖ etc, or even when they behave on instinct or compulsion. Getting tough on crime will not prevent these at all; most happen because people lose their mind for a couple of minutes, or can't resist acting upon what drives them to it.

The other major motivation is profit. They say crime does not pay but they're wrong. Crime does pay and not only that, crime does pay very well. Getting tough on crime in many cases only increases the profits; the harder something is or the more risk involved, the higher the profit margins. Getting tough on crime will not decrease this crime; it will make it only more violent. If you will increase the jail-time or have more felonies on the execution list, or are quicker with your executions, there will only be more blood on the streets. More civilian and more cop blood. If people will hang, they don't really care if they have to add ten murders more to their rap-sheet. You can hang them only once.

Look at Mexico and their war on drugs. There are towns that have no cops left because they either resigned or were murdered. Guess who's winning the war?

People will always be into crime, no matter what laws one invents. And they will always have better weaponry, networks and information than the civilians or cops. They're the predators in society.

People that demand more and faster executions will not get any safety in return.

D.

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#46409 - 01/10/11 11:52 AM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: Asmedious]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Asmedious

RETRIBUTION
The executions are being carried out in your name, that of the American people. The difference that separates you from the creature that is being done to death is that you are human and they are subhuman. If you are of the outlook of going for the torture of the convict, then you move to their level. They are dying because they are a loser, you are alive because you are a winner in life, why then be like them by indulging in their subhuman mentality via torturing them? Be a winner, not a loser, you are better than them, so just kill them and move on.

EFFICIENCY
Supporting giving the likes of baby rapists tens years of extra life and pointless appeals means you as an American will be paying for it. According to this site California pays $90,000 per year per death row prisoner, so for ten years of extra life on your dime a death row prisoner will cost near a $1million, let alone the cost of probably double that in the legal and court costs of appeals. How many American school children have been deprived of investment in their school to keep a baby rapist alive for ten years? think about it - how would you like your $ spent? - baby rapist or the education of your school children? From sentence I propose one appeal and one month of life - then death.



Edited by mabon2010 (01/10/11 11:56 AM)
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Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

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#46414 - 01/10/11 12:03 PM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: Diavolo]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Diavolo

I agree with all your conclusions on motivation for crime.

My issue is not about motivations, it is about what one does with the individual after they did the crime. I offer a simple solution - get rid of them as fast as you can, as efficiently as you can, as cheaply as you can.

I could not care less why a person did what they did, I am interested in improving the system that will dispose of their worthless lives.


Edited by mabon2010 (01/10/11 12:04 PM)
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Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

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#46418 - 01/10/11 12:12 PM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: mabon2010]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Sure but are you willing to accept the consequences?

Crime happens in all societies but when sentences are shorter or softer, on average, criminals tend to not go in overdrive when they attempt to arrest them. Everything comes at a cost. What you call cheaply and efficiently could prove to be quite costly and inefficient.

D.

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#46421 - 01/10/11 12:19 PM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: Diavolo]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Diavolo

I am unsure how:

1. one appeal.
2. death within one month of sentence.
3. death by hanging.

Would be more expensive than the current system. To give you an idea the following site gives some costs:

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty


Edited by mabon2010 (01/10/11 12:20 PM)
_________________________
Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

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#46423 - 01/10/11 12:21 PM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: mabon2010]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1724
Loc: New York
 Quote:
The executions are being carried out in your name, that of the American people


Anyone, anywhere, at anytime can claim to be doing anything in my name. It means nothing to me because itís just something made up. Realistically I have very little if anything at all to say about what is being done by the government here. Sure I can go pull a switch and vote. Heck it might not even be counted as far as I know.
Having been on the receiving end of the government whipping stick a few times, even for minor things, I was able to see that ďThe peopleĒ who were supposedly were the accusers were actually one or two desk jokeys who kissed ass to gain a little bit of power which they wielded with great authority.

 Quote:
The difference that separates you from the creature that is being done to death is that you are human and they are subhuman.


Depending on their crime, I would say that occasionally what separates me from them is that they have more balls then I do.

 Quote:

If you are of the outlook of going for the torture of the convict, then you move to their level.


In theory, I am willing to move up or down to ANY level that works for me. To say that Iím at a certain level is non sense. Iím a person simply being myself and Iím not at a level that can be objectively measured. Itís all subjective, which pretty much means itís only in someoneís mind. And I sure as hell donít want to live my life according to someone elseís measuring stick in their head.

 Quote:
Be a winner, not a loser, you are better than them, so just kill them and move on.


That statement is so absurd for a Satanist, I canít even begin to touch on it.

 Quote:
Supporting giving the likes of baby rapists tens years of extra life and pointless appeals means you as an American will be paying for it. According toCalifornia pays $90,000 per year per death row prisoner, so for ten years of extra life on your dime a death row prisoner will cost near a $1million,


Fair point. However, to make someone who I see as a slime ball suffer for ten extra years Iím willing to forgo a few billion dollars that I would never see in any shape or form no matter what was done with it. Iím not poor enough to get any extra benefits, and not rich enough to have the resources to steal any of it. So fuck it. Spend it on making life for scum bags miserable.

 Quote:
From sentence I propose one appeal and one month of life - then death.


May sound good in theory, but as stated earlier there are a very large number of people in prison who are innocent. As far as Iím concerned no amount of money is a waste if at one point just one innocent person who was wrongly convicted might be released. To me the idea of being imprisoned is far worse then a death sentence.
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#46428 - 01/10/11 12:31 PM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: mabon2010]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
The less options you give, the higher the risk when getting caught.

If I can be on death row for twenty years and have enough shots at getting out of it, or have to do 50 years, I will consider that an option. If I'm pretty sure I'm going to be wasted quite soon and my options are few, none is going to get me alive. As such, I'd shoot the cops, that old granny passing by and even her puppy before hijacking a school bus, driving it from a cliff while singing "And we will all go down together".

An over-the-top example maybe but you get the gist I guess.

D.

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#46432 - 01/10/11 12:56 PM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: mabon2010]
Dutch Satanist Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/19/10
Posts: 69
Loc: Delft, The Netherlands
The punishment should fit the crime. I agree with LaVey's Lex Talionis on this one. Oh, and of course it has to be proven that the person committed the crime. People are innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. And I support Habeas Corpus.

If execution fits the bill, then so be it. But for some crimes, execution would be too easy. To quote "The Princess Bride":

 Originally Posted By: The Princess Bride

Prince Humperdinck: First things first, to the death.
Westley: No. To the pain.
Prince Humperdinck: I don't think I'm quite familiar with that phrase.
Westley: I'll explain and I'll use small words so that you'll be sure to understand, you warthog faced buffoon.
Prince Humperdinck: That may be the first time in my life a man has dared insult me.
Westley: It won't be the last. To the pain means the first thing you will lose will be your feet below the ankles. Then your hands at the wrists. Next your nose.
Prince Humperdinck: And then my tongue I suppose, I killed you too quickly the last time. A mistake I don't mean to duplicate tonight.
Westley: I wasn't finished. The next thing you will lose will be your left eye followed by your right.
Prince Humperdinck: And then my ears, I understand let's get on with it.
Westley: WRONG. Your ears you keep and I'll tell you why. So that every shriek of every child at seeing your hideousness will be yours to cherish. Every babe that weeps at your approach, every woman who cries out, "Dear God! What is that thing," will echo in your perfect ears. That is what to the pain means. It means I leave you in anguish, wallowing in freakish misery forever.
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ďThere is a beast in man that needs to be excersised, not exorcised.Ē

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#46439 - 01/10/11 01:32 PM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: mabon2010]
Autodidact Offline
member


Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 428
 Originally Posted By: mabon2010
If you feel I am still unqualified to pass judgement on your execution system then if you privatise it, I will invest in it, as I think with my efficiency improvements there is good money to be made in the killing machine of the American justice system.


You're way behind and thinking too small to boot. The American justice system is already increasingly privatized, and there's far more money to be made by increasing the number of live prisoners as opposed to killing your golden geese.

The US already has more than seven times as many people in jail (per capita) as the UK - seems our justice system works way better than yours, yes?
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#46441 - 01/10/11 01:45 PM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: Autodidact]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Let's not forget the ironic fact that states which have the death penalty, on average, also have quite a high percentage more homicides than those which don't. Which shows that the thing which should be scary has quite a different effect than most imagine.

D.

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#46461 - 01/10/11 04:58 PM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: mabon2010]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: mabon2010
@ Nyte

OTHER NATIONS
I am British and I am writing my opinion to an international Satanist forum. I am entitled to my opinions about other nations, just as you or anyone is about my nation. I am not telling your nation to do anything, if I was I would be going to the decision maker such as President Obama rather than 600Club.

Sure I am not American, and I only visited your nation once to meet Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse at Disney World as a child. I like America and Donald Duck. I think your execution system sucks, so I offer opinion and suggestions as an outsider.



Please, feel free and offer your opinion to the Pres. I'm sure he'd appreciate that.


 Originally Posted By: mabon2010
Britain does have an investment in the execution industry of your citizens as we are supplying you with the drugs to kill them - 176 Horn Lane, Acton, London to be precise, along with helping people to drive safely.

If you feel I am still unqualified to pass judgment on your execution system then if you privatise it, I will invest in it, as I think with my efficiency improvements there is good money to be made in the killing machine of the American justice system.


Just because Britain supplies some of the drugs that the US happens to pay for, doesn't make YOU personally qualified to pass judgment on the subject. Do you personally carry out executions in your own country? Have strict laws been enforced in your own country? What good have they done? Feel free to show me anywhere that your "opinion" works, because as of today, there has been more than ONE case where our system has worked when it came to an innocent person walking out of prison after years of waiting for their innocence to be proven. New technologies finally put to rest a prison term that never should have been. So.... I say, I'll keep our system, thank you. Hopefully I'll never have the need to use it.

As for privatizing our prison system, all ready done in more than one state. And it's not the executing that makes the "BIG" money. You're not fully informed obviously.

 Originally Posted By: mabon2010
CHILDREN
Your concerns that I would participate in the execution of my own child is a non-event. I won't be having any of those nasty creatures. Hail myself, there is no room for children in my devotion to my own legend.


Then you wouldn't understand why people would prefer the system we have as appose to the one you have offered. Until you have to go out and physically hang a loved one, or even think of it, you don't have a clue. If you claim you don't have anyone in your life that it would bother you beyond belief to kill yourself, than you are lying to yourself. You better thank your lucky stars that your parents decided to have a "nasty creature".

Your own legend? And that would be what exactly?
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If only just for today.....

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#46462 - 01/10/11 05:03 PM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: Diavolo]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Let's not forget the ironic fact that states which have the death penalty, on average, also have quite a high percentage more homicides than those which don't. Which shows that the thing which should be scary has quite a different effect than most imagine.

D.


But Diavolo...you must be mistaken. Are you sure that's right?!

On a more serious note...I have to agree whole heartedly. More strict doesn't always mean "better". After watching some of the people I have in the 3D world, not much scares them when they have their minds set anymore. Punishment be damned, they do what they "want".
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If only just for today.....

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#46463 - 01/10/11 05:14 PM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: Autodidact]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: Autodidact
You're way behind and thinking too small to boot. The American justice system is already increasingly privatized, and there's far more money to be made by increasing the number of live prisoners as opposed to killing your golden geese.

The US already has more than seven times as many people in jail (per capita) as the UK - seems our justice system works way better than yours, yes?


I forget what channel it was on, but there was a documentary about the private sector prisons in the US. If I remember right, they were cashing in quite well. I'll have to see if I can find it on the net, and if there are dollar stats per inmate along with it.

7 times? I knew it was higher but didn't realize it was that high. I wonder how many are illegals, just out of curiosity. Do you have a link to those stats Autodidact?
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If only just for today.....

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#46464 - 01/10/11 05:17 PM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: Nyte]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Prisoners per capita

D.

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#46467 - 01/10/11 05:29 PM Re: Time to update exectution procedures in USA [Re: Diavolo]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo


Thank you Diavolo. Looking through the stats, I'm shocked anyone would even consider committing a crime in China. It does prove the point that execution does not deter crime. Hmm, going have to go do some more digging, because now I'm curious as to what the crimes were that brought about that many executions.
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