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#46629 - 01/12/11 10:20 AM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: Diavolo]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
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Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
I'm curious because I hear Ventrue also flirts with the vampires.


His name should tell you enough.

JK
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#46641 - 01/12/11 03:15 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: Jason King]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
He's about the most disliked man there but as always, even with their whole satanic pretense, most there have learned to shut up, bow and occasionally roll over when expected.

Criticism is only given when hidden in the shadows.

Asinus asinum fricat

D.


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#46647 - 01/12/11 04:11 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: Jake999]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
How many will follow him through the door is anybody's guess.


Not that it matters. CoS ceased to exist in 1975 anyway. ;\)

I think it would probably be for the best if CoS and ToV severed their ties to each other. At the very least it would give them (CoS) more credibility. I.E. not being linked to a ridiculous organization like ToV.
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#46648 - 01/12/11 04:25 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I don't think it's going to happen.

CoS meant something while Lavey was heading it, but after him, it fell apart. Of course none will admit that.

Still, Gilmore became emperor of a glass that is half empty. The ToV, whether you agree or not, are clever guys. They sell a great product. Of course it is completely at odds with what the CoS stands for, but when they should be forced out, or leave, all that is left for Gilmore is an empty paper bag. Most of those remaining are excellent at spit-shining their laminated card but, sadly, that's about it.

Whether he likes it or not, the ToV got Gilmore by the balls. He can't but smile each time he feels them squeeze.

D.

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#46651 - 01/12/11 05:11 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: Jason King]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3893
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Originally Posted By: Jason King
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
I'm curious because I hear Ventrue also flirts with the vampires.


His name should tell you enough.

JK

Yes, it really should. I think he goes by Frost now.
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#46654 - 01/12/11 05:29 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
No, Boyd Rice now runs the CoS:

http://www.boydrice.com/news.html

Jeeze, let's get the story strait.

Tazz, not to break your balls or hijack this thread, but you don't see any boxers, wrestlers, or MMA fighters sporting facial piercings. Tattoos yes - piercings, no. Just sayin....
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#46670 - 01/12/11 09:20 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: Diavolo]
Veles Offline
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Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 4
Loc: US
I was a CoS Member untl 2009, and I remain on friendly terms with some of it's membership.

Gilmore and Nadramia are in the ToV. Now that they've bought a new mansion in New York, I don't see them cutting ties anytime soon. Someone has to pay the bills.

As far as I can tell, Blanche Barton is ToV as well, along with the majority of the Magistry.

Rex Church's theism has been a well known fact for quite some time.

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#46684 - 01/13/11 05:12 AM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: Veles]
Wolflust Offline
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Registered: 11/20/09
Posts: 33
I once thought seriously about joining the C/S, but the more I learn, the more glad I am that I never did.

Gilmore a part of the ToV as well? How does that fit into his militant Atheism or vica versa? Oh well. I guess a proper answer to that question is hard to get, maybe he "verified" (as the ToV like to put it) the existence of the "Undead Gods" too. \:\/

Nevertheless it makes me curious as to what Anton LaVey thought about the ToV, seeing that a lot of these people obviously was more or less close to him.
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#46712 - 01/13/11 11:52 AM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: Wolflust]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Wolflust

Nevertheless it makes me curious as to what Anton LaVey thought about the ToV, seeing that a lot of these people obviously was more or less close to him.


Be careful of what you decide is OBVIOUS. LaVey did NOT like orders. The Church of Satan was THE Church of Satan, not The Vampyre Order of The Church of Satan.

Of course, various chapels and grottoes might adopt a name for their individual group, from Melek Taus to Typhon to Carpathian, etc., but these were not individual and autonomous groupings. They were simply "branch offices," much like the Bank of Boston might have the Brookline or Revere branch of the BANK OF BOSTON.

While LaVey was large and in charge, I know for a fact that he denied several people the sanction to form an order similar in name or concerning werewolves. Is the Church of Satan locked at the hip with the Temple of Vampire? To this day, there is no corollary link, although the melding of the two entities seems to be fairly evident for all to see.
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#46719 - 01/13/11 12:59 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: Jake999]
Wolflust Offline
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Registered: 11/20/09
Posts: 33
Lesson learnt, Jake, I should have used a better wording.

I don`t see the compatability between the two organisations from the outside, and I guess the only way to get an "answer" is to jump head first into it all and sign up for memberships.

But as this is something I don`t want to do, I`m more fond of having fun on my own and let what other people say and do be their own business. ;\)
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#46813 - 01/14/11 08:03 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: Dan_Dread]
Mindmaster Offline
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Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 68
Loc: Detroit, MI
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Yes, it really should. I think he goes by Frost now.



Yea, he does go by Frost now. And yes, they're all silly fictional vampire names. \:\) I think at least in spirit ToV is completely at odds with current CoS completely, and honestly it is at odds with me personally. ToV has some strange belief in elder gods or whatever which by definition puts them out of the Gilmore fold, but honestly... I'll launch a new idea... I think the modern CoS is just a cover organization for the dark and nasty shit that goes down in ToV. ToV is where evil is, and CoS is just the whore on the street. They say one thing when acting as CoS and in those books, and ToV is where they really are loyal. Just an idea... but it seems to be my impression at this time.

I was a die-hard LaVeyan Satanist for a long time, and my theism developed out of my experience. I figure Rex is in the similar situation, and likewise has had the same problem as I. Its very difficult to find a place to hang your hat. There is no room for spirituality in the CoS. But, surprisingly I don't think EVERYONE needs that sort of fulfillment and they're not worse for it in my eye. I believe it's perfectly acceptable to be an Atheist and Satanist so long as you have not been sold through your own meanderings that there is something more.

There are a lot of groups that believe many things that I do, but also put a lot of garbage on top as well. So logically I've decided to not have any group. For people like me this forum is a valuable resource even if I am not always seeing eye to eye with the atheists. I considered joining CoS at some point out of a sort of spiritual tribute to LaVey, but it certainly never was out of respect of this "new guard" or anything. I've just decided I've been solo for sixteen years plus why do I need someone else again? Yep, I'm a Satanist... I don't need to join anyone or anything, or even explain myself... though I do occasionally. \:\)

Strange as it seems for me it's not Satanism without Satan. Are there "symbolic" Christians? We can all wear funny hats and act like we are, and we can draw lines in the sand and make our assertion that Atheism=Satanism or whatever, but lets face it that's all highly suspect. LaVey himself wasn't this hard line for sure, and just by reading you notice that he hints quite a bit beyond the words. Logically, a high priest has limitations of the statements he can make publicly and not seem like a loon. Admitting there is a Satan during satanic ritual abuse trials probably doesn't help defuse the bomb as all the right wing bible -thumpers would be dying to get in on that party. This obviously would have been a major concern for LaVey at the time of his death.

LaVey certainly wouldn't have CoS suckling off the ToV teat however and it certainly insults the life work of a valuable contributor to so many of us.


Edited by Mindmaster (01/14/11 08:06 PM)

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#46834 - 01/15/11 10:09 AM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: Mindmaster]
William Wright Offline
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Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 862
Loc: Nashville
Are there “symbolic” Christians? No. But is Christianity really the standard to which you want to adhere? Christians by definition cannot be “symbolic”, because their focus is on Christ. Satanists, on the other hand, are not typically focused on Satan. They are focused on themselves. They admire and emulate Satan for what he represents, the freedom to forge one’s own path, but they do not need a literal Satan to be their buddy and give them gold stars for kissing his ass.

What specifically in your experience caused you to jump from atheistic Satanist to theistic Satanist? Why is belief in a literal Satan important to you?
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#46841 - 01/15/11 12:58 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: Mindmaster]
Opacus Offline
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Registered: 10/21/10
Posts: 23
Loc: Hell
Just out of curiosity what was it that changed your mind to turn towards theism?

I'm actually honestly curious and don't ask this as a leading question at all.

O.

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#46848 - 01/15/11 02:47 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: Opacus]
Mindmaster Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 68
Loc: Detroit, MI
 Originally Posted By: Opacus
Just out of curiosity what was it that changed your mind to turn towards theism?

I'm actually honestly curious and don't ask this as a leading question at all.

O.


I look at my time as an Atheist in high regard really, and I understand it was a logical progression of my development. I agree that if you cannot see, feel, or otherwise prove to yourself something you shouldn't accept it at all. For me, this took a long period of time because I'd mentally reject my observations if they didn't fit my model. Yep, sometimes I'm pretty thick-headed just like anyone else. Anyway, I became intrigued by ritual magic and began trying a few things to dabble. I started having experiences that my 'model' could not accept or define. Mind you, I've never taken drugs or anything or they'd be perfectly explainable! I have an aversion to chemicals of all kinds, and am sensitive to nearly anything but caffeine. I have extreme allergies and many things make me sick for absolutely no reason. I nearly live like a holy man.. If they were hardcore headbanging holy men.. \:D

Anyway, that's when I started looking outside of that box to see what else was hiding under the rock. That's sort of where I am today and why... Not so much a decision but a natural evolution. Whether the spirits/demons/old gods/balls of energy are independent entities or something else is irrelevant as this is how they behave. My journals do not play out that these events were psychodramas anymore either. My LaVey-based model could no longer explain my experiences thus it was summarily shit-canned.

It worked for me for six years though, so hey it's good.. at least if you don't find yourself with a penchant for ancient grimoires and start redefining your personal reality. This course isn't for everyone for sure. \:\)


Edited by Mindmaster (01/15/11 02:47 PM)

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#46864 - 01/15/11 08:26 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: Mindmaster]
Fnord Offline
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Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: Mindmaster
My LaVey-based model could no longer explain my experiences thus it was summarily shit-canned.


Just a quick observation. It's a long road from acknowledging the results of ritual magic (a technology that it is not yet understood) to ascribing those results to a literal walking around deity.

I won't fault you if it works for you, just don't think of others as not quite as evolved because they haven't made the same leaps that you've made. Also, LaVey didn't do ritual magic solely for the 'psychodrama' in my understanding. He performed rituals because he expected results (he dedicated a lot of time to magic in his books). I think you've confused Gilmore with LaVey.
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