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#48578 - 02/10/11 04:54 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: AgainstTheDark]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: AgainstTheDark
For the first time in a number of years, the CoS has publicly removed a Devil Worshipper from their midst and in doing so has sent a message to the deluded bible-thumping nutters that believe in external deities that such beliefs are simply not acceptable in the modern Church Of Satan.


I assume you imply Rex. May I point out he removed himself and that the CoS had little to do with that. Gilmore won't remove Nemo. Who knows, maybe our black pope has his cut in the ToV business. (It's what some birdies sing.) It's not as if he's going to get rich from selling those red cards, so some additional income might be very welcome.

D.


Edited by Diavolo (02/10/11 04:57 PM)

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#48603 - 02/10/11 10:53 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: Diavolo]
TrollovGrimness Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/20/11
Posts: 44
Loc: Montreal
I'm psychic and my assumption was always "Anton LaVey offered Lifetime membership. Now how do we get these peoples' money again? Oops. See > TOV"

And I was ok with that. In my mind. I accepted that ^ as a possible truth. I don't actually have a problem with it.

My message to the CoS would be: Anton LaVey was a wonderful author. Those interested in his books would enjoy reading them and I would recommend them. Every new age has padlocks to it that you have shoot at first. Anton LaVey is one of those padlocks. He is a person of his time, something he would never have denied. Our time on this earth is different we have to find our own truths and upraise new liberties so to speak.

^k that came out funny I just came back from a bunch of hours playing Dead Space 2 shooting thigns

It's Gilmore's prerogative if he wants to change things or do things differently. If I was leader of the CoS my first order of business would be to place the membership card online for free to download so that any potential member could print it out. A member of the CoS being an individualist should be a mystery. Not some record in some filing cabinet. If truly anyone could be a card carrying member that would be really exciting to me.

I have better and cooler things to do with $200!

Like... buying pretty dollies and outfits. oh my


Edited by TrollovGrimness (02/10/11 10:55 PM)
_________________________
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#48611 - 02/11/11 12:18 AM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: Jake999]
Prometheus9 Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/09/09
Posts: 37
This is simply a case of thinking out loud but it seems Rex wanted to play Magus and Gilmore didn't want to let him do it in his Playground, so he has left.
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#48614 - 02/11/11 12:26 AM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: TrollovGrimness]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1646
Loc: Orlando, FL
I think making it an open-download thing would only cheapen it. It's bad enough that they simply admit any guy willing to shell out $200 bucks.

Part of the value of joining a group is the feeling of accomplishment that you've EARNED your place. That's why they have that preliminary survey in their application, to make it seem as if they are being attentively tested and scrutinized. Granted, it's not much, but it's enough to give CoS members kick to wave around their red cards with pride.

They concede that you don't have to be a card-carrying church member to be a "real Satanist". So unless you're deriving some sort of strong material benefit from the organization, there's no sense in joining.

Satanism, in my opinion, is best approached as a self-initiatory path. A Satanist should have the discipline to see where they are and where they're headed in life. Any group work undertaken is generally peripheral and pragmatic.
_________________________
«Recibe, ˇoh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#48753 - 02/12/11 03:06 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: Jake999]
TrollovGrimness Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/20/11
Posts: 44
Loc: Montreal
I suspect the high membership fee lowers the quality of applicants. How many worthy applicants willing to spend $200 for membership could there be compared to those who deem it more rational to forgo joining?

Edited by TrollovGrimness (02/12/11 03:06 PM)
_________________________
http://www.last.fm/user/TrollovGrimness
Music I like. And my doll.

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#48766 - 02/12/11 09:56 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: TrollovGrimness]
StarlessAeon Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/04/11
Posts: 21
 Quote:
I suspect the high membership fee lowers the quality of applicants.


I disagree, actually. It will probably lower the quantity of applicants, but necessarily the quality. To be completely honest, $200 for a lifetime membership in ANY organization is relatively cheap.

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#48793 - 02/13/11 05:53 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: StarlessAeon]
LucyFur Offline
member


Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 122
Loc: Bible Belt, USA
True, $200 for a lifetime membership is cheap for the most part but it depends on what the member gets out of it. I know some lifetime members who paid the fee and got the membership card and nothing else. They also told me they couldn't reach anyone in the organization. So I am wondering if the members are active and meet on a physical plane or if it is just a cyber thing, or what. I looked at the site a while back and the membership application said something to the effect that payment does not guarantee the member will be contacted by other members or invited to any events. That didn't sound like such a hot deal to me. Maybe there are some members here who can enlighten me. Please forgive me if I am way off base here. I admit my ignorance regarding this an I am genuinely interested in hearing the facts.
_________________________
I spit on your crapulous creeds.
Let all chaste women be utterly despised among you!


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#48794 - 02/13/11 06:00 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: LucyFur]
Lamar Offline
member


Registered: 02/03/10
Posts: 226
Loc: Alabama
I kind of have a little bit of an interest in joining the Church of Satan. About a year ago I absolutely did not want to join. I think now though that it would be a neat thing to be an active member, getting titles for your success in everyday life. That, and plus using the Churc of Satan as a vehicle for my own "projects" and endeavors that maybe other like minded Satanists would appreciate.
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#48797 - 02/13/11 07:30 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: Lamar]
TrollovGrimness Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/20/11
Posts: 44
Loc: Montreal
That seems to be what members get out of it:

A banner for their facebook/myspace/twitter for the band or artproject or whatever, for networking.

And thats about it.
_________________________
http://www.last.fm/user/TrollovGrimness
Music I like. And my doll.

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#48798 - 02/13/11 07:46 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: TrollovGrimness]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
I'm not aware of how the current operation of The Church is handling members who wish to meet other members and become more active. When I joined (and this was in the early 70s) you had the option upon becoming an active member of the Church to request that you be assigned an Agent. Mine was Rev. Pierre Raguet. I was also put into touch with a loose group of Satanists in Vallejo, CA that eventually became the core group for my Melek Taus Chapel. Once I became an Agent, I was offered new Satanists to take under my wing...

Like I said, I don't know how they handle things these days, but I have heard nothing of Agents... or referrals. I personally think we went from "the ruling class" to "the merchant class," and once they've got your $$$, they have little use for you unless it's shopping in The Emporium.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#48799 - 02/13/11 08:11 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: Jake999]
TrollovGrimness Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/20/11
Posts: 44
Loc: Montreal
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
I'm not aware of how the current operation of The Church is handling members who wish to meet other members and become more active. When I joined (and this was in the early 70s) you had the option upon becoming an active member of the Church to request that you be assigned an Agent. Mine was Rev. Pierre Raguet. I was also put into touch with a loose group of Satanists in Vallejo, CA that eventually became the core group for my Melek Taus Chapel. Once I became an Agent, I was offered new Satanists to take under my wing...

Like I said, I don't know how they handle things these days, but I have heard nothing of Agents... or referrals. I personally think we went from "the ruling class" to "the merchant class," and once they've got your $$$, they have little use for you unless it's shopping in The Emporium.


I met the agent in Montreal and was really unimpressed. Very antisocial. I wanted to talk to him but he like... hid from me. Nice guy. I met him very impromptu in college. He came up to me said he was a member and then he disappeared.


Edited by TrollovGrimness (02/13/11 08:12 PM)
_________________________
http://www.last.fm/user/TrollovGrimness
Music I like. And my doll.

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#48803 - 02/13/11 10:38 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: StarlessAeon]
myk5 Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
$200 for lifetime membership is.... It just is.

I do know that, for example black hat seo websites, if you have a forum that is open to the public you tend to attract lower quality participation than if you bill monthly. People expect value for their money and so take a forum that must be paid for much more seriously; the difference in quality of participation is very substantial. The catch is that you have to have a great deal of useful content at the very start or folks simply will demand refunds and no one will use the forum!

Money is a kind of magic in and of itself, in my opinion. When you buy something there is a profound expectation of reward. This is how an expensive book you buy can have less information and a lesser quality of information than a free website, but having bought it you could get more value from the book anyway.

I know little about CoS membership, but I do like the idea of getting titles for real world accomplishments. Real world accomplishment is where it's at for me.

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#48806 - 02/13/11 10:59 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: myk5]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: myk5
$
I know little about COS membership, but I do like the idea of getting titles for real world accomplishments. Real world accomplishment is where it's at for me.


The idea of titles within the Church of Satan being linked to what you do on the outside world is not that you get titles based on what you do on the outside world, rather that your degree within the Church of Satan is an appropriate reflection of what you have actually done with your life on the outside world. For instance, in some organization, you might have a title GRAND MASTER OR THIS LIFE AND EXARCH OF THE INFERNAL PLANE, which is all well and good, until it is realized that you're a rag picker and live in a cardboard box under the 6th Street bridge. There's an illogical disconnect that brings credibility into question. This is what the idea is behind the degree reflecting one's accomplishments inside the Church, certainly, but outside as well. Ideally a Priest would not be that rag picker. A Magister would be in a masterful position in his secular life as well as within the Church.

You don't just "get elevated titles." Tying a title to some kind of entitlement based on time in service or time served as a lower degreed member is simply ridiculous and negates any true basis in merit.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#48814 - 02/14/11 12:09 AM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: Jake999]
myk5 Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
Hmmm, If your daddy is rich enough that gives you status in the real world, merit be damned. The modest shop owner that 5 years earlier had been dressed in rags living in cardboard box on the street - impresses me much more.
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#48815 - 02/14/11 12:24 AM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: myk5]
StarlessAeon Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/04/11
Posts: 21
I personally, could care less about titles. One thing people tend to ignore though - membership in the C/S is completely optional. No one has to belong to an organization to be a Satanist. The C/S states that plain and simple, affiliation is never required by anyone.

Any Satanic or Occult group that insists "you must join them to practice their beliefs" is no better than the Catholic Church. There are groups like this out there unfortunately.

Nothing wrong with working with others once in awhile if that's your fancy. But I think Satanism should be a solitary practice for the most part.

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