Page 6 of 7 « First<34567>
Topic Options
#48824 - 02/14/11 12:53 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: StarlessAeon]
myk5 Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
My magical practice has always been a solitary one for want of partners I could respect. In my experience people I could meet in meat that had an interest in the occult were either entirely too 'fluffy' for me or simply mentally unstable. My bad luck perhaps.

I do recognize the power of a group, because when people organize around an idea stuff like peer pressure and competitiveness can inspire greater efforts. So it's just an idea, the utility of reward real world accomplishment in such a hypothetical group.

Another idea is a 12 step group where participants acknowledge they have failed to be successes in life, apologize to everyone they have hurt by not being fabulously wealthy and support each other to allow the higher power of greed to show them the way....

Top
#48832 - 02/14/11 08:13 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: myk5]
azarikazlevi Offline
lurker


Registered: 02/14/11
Posts: 1
thiestic or not i have to say if he started a order i would join it lol
Top
#48833 - 02/14/11 08:23 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: azarikazlevi]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Really? You had to say that? A pointless one liner as your first post with terrible grammar to boot. You are not off to a good start.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#48838 - 02/14/11 10:42 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: Jake999]
LucyFur Offline
member


Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 122
Loc: Bible Belt, USA
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
[quote=myk5]$
.....There's an illogical disconnect that brings credibility into question. This is what the idea is behind the degree reflecting one's accomplishments inside the Church, certainly, but outside as well. Ideally a Priest would not be that rag picker. A Magister would be in a masterful position in his secular life as well as within the Church.

You don't just "get elevated titles." Tying a title to some kind of entitlement based on time in service or time served as a lower degreed member is simply ridiculous and negates any true basis in merit.


After my experience in another order I couldn't agree with you more. Many members have status within the order, yet they have their hands out at the end of the month requesting help with the rent and the light bill. I'm talking about douche-bag leeches who are either addicted to drugs or have some kind of personality disorder that prevents them from finding or keeping employment, necessitating mooching arrangements with a 'brother' or 'sister' in the order. Don't get me wrong - they ALWAYS have cigarettes and weed - but no cash, no credit, no wheels, no gas.

As much as I like group participation, I got fed up with the judgmental, pompous arrogance of those of a higher degree who considered themselves superior because they were allegedly seasoned 'magickians' authorized to perform a fucking Gnostic Mass once a month or just because they had more time in. It was the lower degree people like me who were called upon to support and transport these losers because they were too important to be bothered with mundane things like feeding themselves and paying the bills. I used to find myself wondering why, if this so-called magickian is so talented, he can't conjure up a job?

So there is something to say for the credibility of people who's successes within the order carry over to their mundane life and visa versa. Anything less is hypocrisy.
_________________________
I spit on your crapulous creeds.
Let all chaste women be utterly despised among you!


Top
#48839 - 02/14/11 11:04 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: StarlessAeon]
LucyFur Offline
member


Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 122
Loc: Bible Belt, USA
 Originally Posted By: StarlessAeon

Any Satanic or Occult group that insists "you must join them to practice their beliefs" is no better than the Catholic Church. There are groups like this out there unfortunately.

Nothing wrong with working with others once in awhile if that's your fancy. But I think Satanism should be a solitary practice for the most part.


I agree. That was another reason I left the order I mentioned earlier. Not only do they claim to be the only legitimate church of Thelema, but they have Christianized their non-profit organization in order to be accepted by the mainstream sheeple. On top of that, they really only do one ritual which they jealously and litigiously guard like it is the most sacred ritual on the face of the earth, threatening to sue anyone who would conduct said ritual in the public without authorization.

I hung around as long as I did because I enjoy doing group ritual. But the banality of the only ritual they did, coupled with hypocrisy of the increasing number of restrictions they tried to bind me up with, made me realize they were the antithesis of Thelema!

Since I broke away from that pseudo Catholic cult I have been in no hurry to try another, but I certainly can respect the CoS hands off approach and their honesty about it.

I still like working with a group on occasion, and have since formed my own composed of Satanists, Thelemites, Gnostics, Luciferians and other tolerant, respectful people who can pull their own weight. And since the Temple is in my house, it's invitation only - douchebags need not apply!
_________________________
I spit on your crapulous creeds.
Let all chaste women be utterly despised among you!


Top
#48877 - 02/15/11 05:12 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: TrollovGrimness]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: TrollovGrimness
I suspect the high membership fee lowers the quality of applicants. How many worthy applicants willing to spend $200 for membership could there be compared to those who deem it more rational to forgo joining?


I wouldn't really call it a "high" membership fee. It isn't unusual I spend more on a night out.

D.

Top
#48880 - 02/15/11 05:22 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: Diavolo]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
For $200 I'd at least expect a goatskin-leather Satanic Bible, plus a silver-plated Baphomet medallion. >.>

There are plenty of other cults that are willing to give you more bang for your buck, commercially speaking.


Edited by The Zebu (02/15/11 05:22 PM)
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

Top
#48881 - 02/15/11 05:24 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: The Zebu]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Of course but it isn't as if one has to win the lottery to be able to join the CoS. I don't consider it worth the money but that's mainly because the CoS has nothing to offer I want, but if the 200$ was the sole reason, I'd surely would be doing something wrong in life.

D.

Top
#49014 - 02/17/11 02:26 AM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: StarlessAeon]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1146
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: myk5
Hmmm, If your daddy is rich enough that gives you status in the real world, merit be damned. The modest shop owner that 5 years earlier had been dressed in rags living in cardboard box on the street - impresses me much more.


The operative phrase there is "5 years earlier." For every guy on the street corner who makes something of himself, there are 999 or more that will still be squeegee professionals in 5 years' time. It's hard to tell in advance what one will make of himself, which is why judging people by their current achievements is a pretty good gauge. Almost everyone aspires to greatness; few reach it.

That being said, I took "accomplishments" and "done with your life" to be the key terms in Jake's statement about secular status. That's entirely about "merit, not inherit." I doubt Veruca Salt would qualify.


Edited by XiaoGui17 (02/17/11 02:28 AM)
_________________________
Wir halten uns an Regeln, Wenn man uns regeln lässt

Top
#49019 - 02/17/11 06:04 AM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: XiaoGui17]
Gueheriet Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 23
I may be wrong but I see your approach as very materialistic, there are people who don´t desire to be uber wealthy and just want to live their lifes by their own rules. If your goal in life is to live on a farm,to live away from civilization or to be a hermit surrounded by books and you reach it then, at least in my book, you´ve done the most satanic thing you can do, you´ve designed your own life only by your own ruless and you have accomplished it.
Top
#49049 - 02/17/11 03:08 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: Gueheriet]
Mitch Koch Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/02/11
Posts: 39
Loc: TN
 Originally Posted By: Gueheriet
If your goal in life is to live on a farm,to live away from civilization or to be a hermit surrounded by books and you reach it then, at least in my book, you´ve done the most satanic thing you can do, you´ve designed your own life only by your own rules and you have accomplished it.


I couldn't agree more and this is a point (in my experience) that gets lost on some folks who are new to studying Satanism. People get clouded with Hollywood's portrayal of Satan as an inherently wealthy, materialist character vs. one of actual depth and merit. I think it would be interesting to see the devil portrayed as a Unabomber type; disheveled in appearance yet obsessively satisfied in his solitary, fringe lifestyle (minus the silly letter-bombs). It goes back to the core of LaVey's "credibility over consumerism" theory. Don't get me wrong; I love making money as much as the next lil’ devil, but mainly because money affords me the ability to pursue more education, experience and goals.
_________________________
“That is what friendship means. Sharing the prejudice of experience.” Charles Bukowski

Top
#49050 - 02/17/11 03:50 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: Mitch Koch]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: Mitch Koch
People get clouded with Hollywood's portrayal of Satan as an inherently wealthy, materialist character vs. one of actual depth and merit.


People get clouded with Hollywood's portrayal of Satan as an inherently wealthy (wealth isn't an inherent trait),

materialist character (some define the mastery of the earth as the mastery of the human condition, inclusive of money),

VS. (are these things necessarily mutually exclusive?)

one of actual depth and merit. (Rich folk can be meritorious and deep thinkers too, can they not?)

Not really taking issue with you Sir, just questioning your wording.

The Devil in Exorcist3 is a homeless bum in a mental ward... sometimes Hollywood does portray the devil at the other end of the spectrum.

What I like to see is the devil from the middle class. The original Halloween did this, as did The Bad Seed and The Good Son and lots of others.
_________________________
Dead and gone. Syonara.

Top
#49060 - 02/17/11 06:22 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: Fnord]
Mitch Koch Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/02/11
Posts: 39
Loc: TN
 Originally Posted By: Fnord
 Originally Posted By: Mitch Koch
People get clouded with


People get clouded with Hollywood's portrayal of Satan as an inherently wealthy (wealth isn't an inherent trait),

materialist character (some define the mastery of the earth as the mastery of the human condition, inclusive of money),

VS. (are these things necessarily mutually exclusive?)

one of actual depth and merit. (Rich folk can be meritorious and deep thinkers too, can they not?)




I agree - very crappy wording indeed. And no, I wasn't saying that I personally believe those traits are mutually exclusive. My eyes are crossed from several new processes we started at work today, so I apologize for my cloudiness.
_________________________
“That is what friendship means. Sharing the prejudice of experience.” Charles Bukowski

Top
#49295 - 02/21/11 02:33 PM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: LucyFur]
StarlessAeon Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/04/11
Posts: 21
 Quote:
On top of that, they really only do one ritual which they jealously and litigiously guard like it is the most sacred ritual on the face of the earth, threatening to sue anyone who would conduct said ritual in the public without authorization.


I once belonged to a group like this as well (not Thelema though). They never threatened to sue anyone but insisted only "active members" could practice the ritual. So many groups claim they are "the one true way". In my opinion, that is a trick they use to keep people brainwashed and obedient to their group.

Top
#49339 - 02/22/11 12:07 AM Re: Magister Diabolus Rex Leaves the Church of Satan [Re: StarlessAeon]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
This is kind of a holdover from the ancient way of magic... the idea of having a secretive "mystery cult" whose rites can only be practiced by initiates and never revealed to the profane.

Of course, it's quite a silly notion to uphold when we live in the "information age", when nearly every occult "secret" is readily available via Google search, and in PDF format.

It's fine to have rituals unique to your own group, but it's quite pretentious to assume that nobody else has the "right" to use them, especially if you're a recently-formed McOrder using the same derivative junk as every other wizard on the block.

I remember coming across a collection of "Order of Phosphorus" grade material online that carried a threat to any who would betray the "mysteries" contained to anyone outside the Order... and of course, said secrets simply turned out to be a bunch of material either pilfered from older authors or cherry-picked from the public domain. Way to go.

Oh yeah, and POST 666! (puts on party hat)


Edited by The Zebu (02/22/11 12:09 AM)
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

Top
Page 6 of 7 « First<34567>


Moderator:  Woland, TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.028 seconds of which 0.002 seconds were spent on 28 queries. Zlib compression disabled.