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#4715 - 03/03/08 12:34 AM Science and Satanism
Trapezoid Offline
lurker


Registered: 03/02/08
Posts: 3
Loc: Victoria
Hi Everyone,

I love Science, I do not study it (my partner is at Uni doing Physics and Philosphy he is the expert in our home), I just read things and see things and look on in awe and amazement.. I do read alot though and am currently reading Bill Brysons' 'Short history of everything'(awesome book for a person who knows nothing about Science) and 'Acid tongues and tranquil dreamers' (looks at the rivalries that fuelled the advancement of Science and Technology ie Edison Vs Tesla) by Michael White which is a fantastic book. I have been a Satanist (LaVeyan)for nearly 20 years and I was wondering how you see Science as a Satanist, is it important to you as a Satanist, How does it play a part in your life if you are a Satanist..I realise Science is a broad term but I ask mainly about Physics.
Me personally I find sometimes I am confronted as it seems that many Physicists are, whether innocently or not, trying to get closer to God rather than be their own gods. I dont know whether this is right or not but from what I have seen on documentries and read in articles in New Scientist that idea is definately there. Let me know what you think...
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#4718 - 03/03/08 01:26 AM Re: Science and Satanism [Re: Trapezoid]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I have been two things for as long as I can remember. An Atheist, and a scientist. I came to university to do a Chemistry degree. I'm a Physicist and Mathematician by talent and a Chemist by heart. I love science and Physics was always my strongest.

Satanism is my way of life. I live based on the guidlines it suggests not because of any faith but because I happen to agree with them. This doesn't conflict with, and in some ways, at least to some extent, it even coincides with science.

I find both to be important in my life. I hope that answers your question.
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#4779 - 03/05/08 01:08 AM Re: Science and Satanism [Re: Trapezoid]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: Trapezoid
Hi Everyone,

I love Science, I do not study it (my partner is at Uni doing Physics and Philosphy he is the expert in our home), I just read things and see things and look on in awe and amazement.. I do read alot though and am currently reading Bill Brysons' 'Short history of everything'(awesome book for a person who knows nothing about Science) and 'Acid tongues and tranquil dreamers' (looks at the rivalries that fuelled the advancement of Science and Technology ie Edison Vs Tesla) by Michael White which is a fantastic book. I have been a Satanist (LaVeyan)for nearly 20 years and I was wondering how you see Science as a Satanist, is it important to you as a Satanist, How does it play a part in your life if you are a Satanist..I realise Science is a broad term but I ask mainly about Physics.
Me personally I find sometimes I am confronted as it seems that many Physicists are, whether innocently or not, trying to get closer to God rather than be their own gods. I dont know whether this is right or not but from what I have seen on documentries and read in articles in New Scientist that idea is definately there. Let me know what you think...


Thats is a good question. Science used to be cool, like when they followed the rules; i.e. the scientific method.

I think it went something like: 1) ask a question; 2) make a theory; 3) experiment; then 4) hypothesize?

Nowadays its more like: 1) don't ask; 2) here's what Newton and Einstein said; 3) your a kook if you think otherwise.

I'll give you some examples. The "earth expansion theory;" The hollow earth theory;" aliens... instead of science trying to experiment unbiased to figure anything out about these, they just beat and thump on their scientific dogmas and established doctrines; and if that doesn't work they ridicule you. Kinda like what Christians do.

It bugs me when they teach their scientific findings as fact, when its just a theory. I remember in Geometry class that a theory had to be proven as a Postulate, or it is it remains an "educated guess." (I prolly got that assbackwards; i failed Geo). I don't remember learning any scientific postulates in science class during high school.

I still like science, but I wouldn't believe everything i read.
But I love electronic! We're at this threshold right now when we're going to be leaving the world of electronic behind and moving into Photonic. Basically our microchips have shrunken as small as they can get to use with electrons; but this one guy has made these photon crystals that uses the smaller and faster Photon to carry information, which would shrink these chips down even further and make them more powerful. This photon crystal is going to do to Photonic technology what the transistor did for electronics; and transistors and chips now will be like the big vacuum tubes.

I think Satanism should focus on this field; so we can make those "prophesied" Artificial Human Companions. I want a borg-girl that looks like seven of nine!





Edited by LUCIFERIFIC (03/05/08 01:15 AM)
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#4827 - 03/05/08 06:29 PM Re: Science and Satanism [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
 Originally Posted By: LUCIFERIFIC

Nowadays its more like: 1) don't ask; 2) here's what Newton and Einstein said; 3) your a kook if you think otherwise.


An insult to science and everything it stands for. That kind of thinking started the damn dark ages, I won't stand for it. I consider ALL scientific theories and look at all viewpoints critically.
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#4839 - 03/05/08 11:35 PM Re: Science and Satanism [Re: TornadoCreator]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
 Originally Posted By: LUCIFERIFIC

Nowadays its more like: 1) don't ask; 2) here's what Newton and Einstein said; 3) your a kook if you think otherwise.


An insult to science and everything it stands for. That kind of thinking started the damn dark ages, I won't stand for it. I consider ALL scientific theories and look at all viewpoints critically.


Yeah, but remember what mainstream, science said about Wilhelm Reich? They even went so far to burn his books?

Remember what they called Nicola Tesla, and how he ended up in old age?

And what did they say about Antonio Meucci? Nathan B Stubblefeild? What did they do with Raymond Rife and his discoveries? T. Henry Moray and his work? And the great Townsend Brown and his other scientific works? And what became of Dr. Vladimir Gavreau and Dr. Philo Farnsworth?

How did the scientific community handle these men's discoveries, theories, and achievements? Has anyone even heard of them besides the cult classics Reich and Tesla?

It's wonderful that you are open minded and look at all theories; but not mainstream science. Do you know how many scientists are currently being beaten down and losing their professional careers and reputations for siding with the electric universe theory?
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#4880 - 03/06/08 01:22 PM Re: Science and Satanism [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
birdstrike Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/30/07
Posts: 59
Loc: Canada
Science is in many ways another form of religion. We take some neato assumptions, build on them and refer to them as fact. I agree that science, due mainly to the requirement of some theoretical proof, holds more weight than the bible. I especially am intrigued by the direction of virtual physics, and how it relates to our existence.

I have always found it important however when one deals with science to be aware of the fact that nearly every scientific law or theory has very scientifically qualified detractors. Like spirituality it is important for one to locate his or her own evidence. It is also important to attempt an examination of all sides of any given idea scientific or otherwise.

In the end one must draw their own conclusions. Or do as I do and merely float about from one idea to the next as it serves my purposes!
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#4882 - 03/06/08 01:56 PM Re: Science and Satanism [Re: birdstrike]
Stag Offline
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Registered: 09/20/07
Posts: 84
 Quote:
Science is in many ways another form of religion. We take some neato assumptions, build on them and refer to them as fact.

Right, apart from all that stuff about evidence and falsifiablity, science is exactly like a religion!

 Quote:
I have always found it important however when one deals with science to be aware of the fact that nearly every scientific law or theory has very scientifically qualified detractors.

Errr... so where exactly are all the highly qualified detractors of the First Law of Thermodynamics? Conservation of Momentum? Evolution?

Stag

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#4884 - 03/06/08 04:09 PM Re: Science and Satanism [Re: Stag]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I have to side with Stag on this one here. I can't see any detractors in the main scientific theories, even ones under attack from zelots like genetic theory, evolution, and the age of the earth. Science is nothing like a religion however people do treat it like that.

The examples Luciferic gave are very astute. Science is often ignored and treated like alien concepts simply because it would undermine what we currently except as scientific fact. I find this saddening and I personally refuse to do it. Science will die if people refuse to use the scientific method. All theories must be tested and reviewed before they are dismissed.
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#4897 - 03/06/08 09:03 PM Re: Science and Satanism [Re: Trapezoid]
DaVinci Offline
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Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
As I'm not a proclaimed Satanist and never will be; I do view Science as being politically correct. Science proves right from wrong, left from right, and truth from lie. It is required for everything we do in our lives and anyone who denies Science as being a strong influence; does not yet see the bigger picture.
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#4899 - 03/06/08 09:36 PM Re: Science and Satanism [Re: DaVinci]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: DaVinci
As I'm not a proclaimed Satanist and never will be; I do view Science as being politically correct. Science proves right from wrong, left from right, and truth from lie. It is required for everything we do in our lives and anyone who denies Science as being a strong influence; does not yet see the bigger picture.


What do you mean by "Science?"

Lets say there are two Sciences one group that says energy and matter can neither be created and destroyed... but the big bang did happen anyways... how? We don't know, it just came out of nothing.

Then you have the second group that states energy can never be created or destoryed, therefore the big bang never happened because that defies the laws of physics and thermodynamics.

Which "science" is the politically correct one? Which one teaches us right from wrong; truth from lie?

Lets there is Science A who states that Gravity is one of the weakest of the 4 forces in the cosmos, and therefore, with the help of the mysteriously missing Dark Matter it is the single agent which formed everything in the universe...

Then Science B which states that gravity is the weakest force in nature therefore it has relatively nothing to do with the creation of the cosmos - electricity does because cosmic bodies, nebula, and galaxies have magnetic fields and any electrician knows you can't have magnetic fields without electricity...

Which "science" is the politically correct one? Which one teaches us right from wrong; truth from lie?

I have more examples, if you need further examples.



Edited by LUCIFERIFIC (03/06/08 09:54 PM)
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#4900 - 03/06/08 09:51 PM Re: Science and Satanism [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
Or here's another good example.

Science teaches us the intricate anatomy of the eyeball, shows us how the lens and retina works, and how the retina makes bio-electric pulses to the brain. But yet science can't explain how the electrical signal of a ~2 inch blurry, upside down 2 dimensional image turns into the living 3 dimensional reality we experience?

We learn from science that a new human starts off as a sperm and egg. This unites to form a zygote. This zygote is a single celled entity with 46 chromosomes... eventually it divided into millions of times; each cell a copy or clone; each cell has the same 46 chromosomal blueprint. Then something happens and one cell becomes a brain cell, and another becomes a skin cell. How does this happen when each cloned cell had the same exact blueprint. Science can't explain what would cause or make one cell read one section of the blueprint, while another read a different part, and it all happens so harmoniously that me and you are perfectly made, everything where it is supposed to be?

Material Science can only go so far as reason and the five senses, beyond this it has a hard time seeing the ghost in the machine. It's foolish to believe that "Science" is infallible and all knowing. Especially when that Science is based on speculative mathematics, and research money funded by special interest groups and corporations with hidden motives.

How "Politically Correct" is Science when without money from the pharmaceutical cartel... special interests groups, lobbies, and large corporations, the Scientists doing the "experimentation""reseach" and preaching would not have a living?

Its naive to believe that "Science" is an independent organism which can survive financially on its own; as if these oversize brained socially challenged lab jocks are multimillionaires just pursuing their life's hobbies. That money comes from somewhere and for a purpose. If I was Willy Wonka I wouldn't give scientists money to prove that excessive sugar is bad for children.

Lets not forget "past orthadoxies" and forget that before and during world war two "Science" believed and taught that the size of one's brain indicated intelligence and that the White - Nordic - Anglo- Saxon- Aryan races had the biggest size, while Africans had the smallest. I'm not going to go into detail about how "Science" somehow sided with white people and made black people "scientifically" appear like a subspecies.

Reality is 90% subjective (Robert Anton Wilson). Not even Science can escape the subjective world, thoughts, and preconceptualized opinions of the mind it is born from.

Science has its limits - and the limit is the man and source it came from. To whole heartedly agree with their opinion and interpretation of the universe and reality, is no different than from buying the interpretations and reality of a Guru or prophet. In either case you failed to think for yourself, make up your own mind, and define your own reality. In essence the BELIEFS you hold so dear came from someone else's mind and ego. How is it that a Satanist can shake his fist at religionists and say that they have exclussive rights to follow their own ego; but at the same time follow the egos of men in white lab coats? "He who has the power to define, has the ultimate power." (I forgot who said that.)


Edited by LUCIFERIFIC (03/06/08 10:26 PM)
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#4901 - 03/06/08 10:33 PM Re: Science and Satanism [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
Sordid Archetype Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/05/08
Posts: 28
Loc: Long Island, NY
There was a time when science stated that atoms were the smallest constructors of matter. Then protons, neutrons and electrons were discovered. Nowadays we know that fermions exist.

One might choose to be careful about which man-made services he holds on a pedestal. Even if they do choose the guise of "science."
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#4902 - 03/06/08 10:46 PM Re: Science and Satanism [Re: Sordid Archetype]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: Sordid Archetype
There was a time when science stated that atoms were the smallest constructors of matter. Then protons, neutrons and electrons were discovered. Nowadays we know that fermions exist.

One might choose to be careful about which man-made services he holds on a pedestal. Even if they do choose the guise of "science."


Good point. I agree. Here's a question: at what point is science going to discover that all these particles and "-ions" are nothing more than vortexes of energy, spinning at different rates; then try and figure out what this energy is and where it comes from? When that day comes will science still be considered "Material Science?"


Edited by LUCIFERIFIC (03/06/08 10:47 PM)
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#4905 - 03/06/08 11:27 PM Re: Science and Satanism [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
 Originally Posted By: LUCIFERIFIC
 Originally Posted By: DaVinci
As I'm not a proclaimed Satanist and never will be; I do view Science as being politically correct. Science proves right from wrong, left from right, and truth from lie. It is required for everything we do in our lives and anyone who denies Science as being a strong influence; does not yet see the bigger picture.


What do you mean by "Science?"

Lets say there are two Sciences one group that says energy and matter can neither be created and destroyed... but the big bang did happen anyways... how? We don't know, it just came out of nothing.

Then you have the second group that states energy can never be created or destoryed, therefore the big bang never happened because that defies the laws of physics and thermodynamics.

Which "science" is the politically correct one? Which one teaches us right from wrong; truth from lie?

Lets there is Science A who states that Gravity is one of the weakest of the 4 forces in the cosmos, and therefore, with the help of the mysteriously missing Dark Matter it is the single agent which formed everything in the universe...

Then Science B which states that gravity is the weakest force in nature therefore it has relatively nothing to do with the creation of the cosmos - electricity does because cosmic bodies, nebula, and galaxies have magnetic fields and any electrician knows you can't have magnetic fields without electricity...

Which "science" is the politically correct one? Which one teaches us right from wrong; truth from lie?

I have more examples, if you need further examples.



There is no 'Science A' and 'Science B' - there is just Science.
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#4919 - 03/07/08 01:01 AM Re: Science and Satanism [Re: DaVinci]
September26th Offline
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Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 3
Loc: Midwestern United States
http://chondriticsound.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13445&sid=603adb0628c85716a9eda6edd8c25007

The above links to a lengthy, and mostly interesting and worthwhile discussion that might be summed up as spirituality/metaphysics vs empiricism/scientific method.

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#4925 - 03/07/08 02:57 AM Re: Science and Satanism [Re: September26th]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
As stated, there are no forms of 'Science' - there is just Science. It's all based on the foundations of fact.
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#4929 - 03/07/08 03:37 AM Re: Science and Satanism [Re: September26th]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
First of all, neither is politically correct, you're all using the phrase "politically correct" incorrectly.

Second, neither of the two big bang statements made by Luciferic are correct. It is in fact very simple.

Matter is a form of Energy.
E = MC^2 and C^2 is a constant therefor irrelevant.
Energy = Mass at a set factor.
This means that Mass is simply a form of energy like Light, Kinetic and Thermal energy.

There was almost no mass before the Big Bang, all contained within a sigularity of space-time, therefor there was very little energy, as mass expanded so did the energy. To counter the creation of the energy that the mass had anti-matter formed, also known as dark matter, the reason we have much more dark matter than matter is the dark matter does not posses energy but must counteract the existence of both mass and energy. The big bang occured due to this change.

It's that simple.

In actual fact energy exists only in two forms Kinetic and Mass. Light is merely the kinetic energy of a super-fast moving photon. Thermal is simply the ambiant vibration of mass and therefor kinetic by it's definition. Sound is recuring compressions of kinetic energy, yet another vibration, but much slower than thermal. Chemical is not a form of energy, it is simply the simplified form of mass as being an energy form that is taught in schools, and potensial energy is by it's very definition an abstract concept however it would be best described as kinetic as it's actually a relitive prediction of the future expenditure of energy in the form of kinetic energy.

Thus all energy is either Kinetic or Mass, Mass must exist in order for it to show any kinetics and as we have a finite amount of mass we have a finite amount of energy. Without mass to for forces to act upon there can be no energy therefor mass and energy have a direct positive corrolation.

I would therefore postulate that the rule that energy cannot be created or destroyed only changed from one form to another is false. It is simply that is energy is created an equal amount to a factor of the constant, of mass, must also be created and the same applies should either be destroyed.

Thank you.
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#4935 - 03/07/08 03:55 AM Re: Science and Satanism [Re: DaVinci]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I would try to simplify what I said but I'm not sure I can. Sorry.
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#84556 - 01/29/14 06:12 AM Re: Science and Satanism [Re: Trapezoid]
Ferox Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/19/13
Posts: 69
Loc: Adios!
To me, science is just an utility, it only makes my Satanic life more comfortable. It is the chair I sit on when I'm relaxing, the phone I'm using when I want to talk to someone etc.
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#84590 - 01/30/14 02:11 PM Re: Science and Satanism [Re: Ferox]
Brother Nihil Offline
member


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 179
Science has done more to undermine the power of Christianity and other religions than any other human institution, so certainly Satanists should respect it. Before science, none of this Satanic culture would exist, except as a tiny underground in constant fear of discovery by the inquisitors.

Science just a utility? Wrong! Science has expanded our worldview like nothing else, to reveal the vastness, alienness, and indeed darkness, of the universe we actually inhabit. Personally, I'm still waiting for a scientific Satanism, free of the memetic baggage left over from Christianity and with a more cosmic perspective than Satanists seem to favor. I suppose such an ideology will need another name -- Sithism anyone?


Edited by Brother Nihil (01/30/14 02:14 PM)

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#84593 - 01/30/14 03:29 PM Re: Science and Satanism [Re: Brother Nihil]
What Is Good? Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/19/13
Posts: 74
Loc: Finland
Since LaVeyan Satanism is based on psychology, and psychology is a science. I'd say that Satanism is a science.

Brother Nihil, you aren't referring to Star Wars, are you?
...funny thing how I read so much Star Wars novels for example, I find so many philosophical similarities with the Sith and Satanism. Except that the Sith are extreme Social Darwinists, and that we don't have the Force IRL \:D
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#84595 - 01/30/14 03:51 PM Re: Science and Satanism [Re: Brother Nihil]
Ferox Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/19/13
Posts: 69
Loc: Adios!
You are not my brother man, and I was speaking for myself. First off, don’t tell me who or what to respect okay…, “brother.” Second, Villainy, Liquor and Lust have done Hell of a lot more to undermine christianity than your science. Third, RIGHT! To me science is just an utility, for it only serves my carnal needs. Those people work very hard at it though, so herewith a big thanks. And finally, I think “Sithism” would be far too fictional for a scientific satanic movement. Why not simply call it “Mythbusting?” Whatever gets you off, “brother.”

Suggested reading & study - “The Importance Of Being Evil” by Anton LaVey.

Here endeth the lesson.

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#84600 - 01/30/14 06:15 PM Re: Science and Satanism [Re: Ferox]
Brother Nihil Offline
member


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 179
No friend, villainy, liquor and lust are nothing new under the sun and had little to do with the demise of the Church's power. It was their loss of intellectual credibility in enforcing counterfactual dogma in the face of evidence presented by the likes of Galileo that was the root of their demise.

Scientists pursue science because it turns on their brains; your carnal needs are irrelevant. You can ignore the awesome truths of science if you like, and fuck, fight and pick bananas off of trees like every other monkey in the jungle, but don't be surprised when the scientifically-minded "Sith" take over your world and put you in their zoos as specimens of legacy, pre-scientific humanity.


Edited by Brother Nihil (01/30/14 06:21 PM)

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#84602 - 01/30/14 07:44 PM Re: Science and Satanism [Re: Brother Nihil]
Ferox Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/19/13
Posts: 69
Loc: Adios!
Haha, wrong. I don’t feel threatened by your megalomaniac “mythbusting“ at all. Run with it man, enjoy yourself. It’s the latest hype after all. Ooh, here come the “mythbusters,” I better watch out haha! Let Me repeat that for you: Science is just an utility, it serves Me well.;-)

1+1=11

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