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#47689 - 01/31/11 12:23 PM Re: red satanism [Re: Fist]
Born Offline
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Registered: 10/17/09
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Loc: Ontario, Canada
I've noticed a rise in interest in mixing Communism with Satanism. It must be said that the two will NEVER congeal. When we compare Communism and Capitalism in Satanic context, it's not hard to see where Satanism would truly flourish to it's greatest potential.

With Communism, there's always a core foundation that is built upon a sort of Marxist utopia. A leveling of classes and promises of betterment and equality for the proletariat.

I thought communism had always had a form of monarchy and birth rites anyway. As in any society, fundamentalism and totalitarian view finds ease on the coat tails of honorable intention. History has shown time and time again where it leads.

From the view of a Satanist, there are those that have power, and those that give it. Regardless of whether there were a common societal philosophy such as Satanism, absolute power would eventually corrupt absolutely. The strong within a group of strength would still rise, as to the intentions and their legitimacy relative to the masses...it would be solipsism to 'hope' that any mandate would hold the 'greater good' and mindfulness of you and your kin as paramount.

Capitalism is just as bad in the obvious separation of class and often deplorable conditions from birth. Out of the two political concepts, are the 'masses' in either one, any less likely to succumb to a predetermined societal role of sorts?

The traditional view of freedom in liberalism comes from the capitalist success stories. They become beacons because the system provides an out for a life many can agree is often shit. Communism attempts to inspire the individual to accept the existing 'shit life' for a 'could be worse' scenario.

There are so many gates at the starting line of Satanism, that really each pursuant path is reflective of one's existing core convictions...Be it opportunistic, dominant, indulgent and hedonistic, artistic and philosophical, driven to succeed, or all of the above. One of the two societal structures certainly seems to allow Satanism to flourish more than the other in my opinion.

Unless you're part of that 3%, it doesn't matter the political ideology...you are under the thumb of those chosen by their predecessors to maintain power. Satanism involves more of a revolution of the mind and personal liberation from conceptual hindrances and dualism (among many other evolutionary epiphanies). It's unlikely for a 'Satanic Party' to ever emerge and take their rightful place in current political arenas, in the West or in China as current examples of said ideologies and politics.

The only reason Capitalism is in the state it is, is due to a complacent herd that handed their life decisions to the more dominant within their ranks and submitted all decisive power to the voluntarily unseen.

So many stuck their head in the sand for so long, and are now slowly becoming aware how vulnerable their asses really are being straight up in the air.

Apologies for over zealous response with 'quick reply'. The intent was to respond to the OP.


Edited by Born (01/31/11 12:27 PM)
Edit Reason: responded to wrong poster.
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#47693 - 01/31/11 02:03 PM Re: red satanism [Re: Born]
Meatl Gear Offline
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Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 41
Unlike others, I have not argued that Satanism is tied to an economic system inherently. Satanism is a world view and a system of ethics. You can live by satanist ethics in any political system. You can even live by satanist ethics under Islamic Fundamentalism, you'd just have to be smooth and hide it.
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#47701 - 01/31/11 02:53 PM Re: red satanism [Re: Meatl Gear]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
Unlike others, I have not argued that Satanism is tied to an economic system inherently. Satanism is a world view and a system of ethics.


Satanism may not have an inherent political system, however, the ideals of Satanism work better with some political systems than others. Satanism champions merit, personal accomplishment and individuality. As has already been pointed out, ideologies like Socialism, Marxism, Communism etc. conflict with the aforementioned merit, personal accomplishment and individuality.

Personally I have always seen Satanism as being more aligned with Anarchy (my take on Anarchy at least).
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#47702 - 01/31/11 02:58 PM Re: red satanism [Re: Meatl Gear]
myk5 Offline
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Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
Is Satanism a political position? Really?

The circumstance of well being for the 'masses' ensures the power of the ruling class, be it Corporate or State power. I don't see it impossible to be a Satanic Marxist, but it likely would only be practical in an already self described Communist nation.

Largely having power in America is a class based phenomena. I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth, so I'm cattle, a 'peasant'. I'm going to do better, I have superior intelligence and skill sets with which to do better. But I have no illusions about where I'm coming from.

Being a Satanist doesn't make you any better than a peasant. Real world results makes you better than a peasant, making lots of money, influencing lots of people, buying elections...etc.

The fact I hate being a fucking sheep is my main motivation to start businesses and make a difference, for myself and others. And making that difference in the lives of other people isn't selfless, it's where influence comes from and greater power grows.

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#47703 - 01/31/11 03:36 PM Re: red satanism [Re: myk5]
Meatl Gear Offline
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Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 41
I do not think capitalism is about merit as much as it is about perception and networking connections. How many times does an interviewer select an employee by giving them a test, and then taking the person with the highest score? Not very often. Under capitalism, people hire for dumb reasons. They may not like the way your hair is combed or type your name into google and not like what shows up. Freedom mean you are free to be an idiot.

When you are buying a product, would you not admit that brand loyalty plays a role. That it isn't only merit, but also the brand?

Stupidity should be painful. I believe in totalitarian governments. That being said, I do not argue that you are less of a satanist if you disagree with me. It isn't a litmus test issue for me. It apparently is a litmus test issue for others.


Edited by Meatl Gear (01/31/11 03:39 PM)

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#47709 - 01/31/11 04:56 PM Re: red satanism [Re: Meatl Gear]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: Meatl Gear
How many people here have pondered the idea of mixing Satanism (which is more broad then just Lavey Satanism) with Marxism-Leninism? I know a few people who do this. I also know some websites that throw major chimp outs when the idea is even mentioned.

I like the idea. In my mind, Satan, as the underdog, symbolizes the working class against the ruling class (which is "god").


Satanic Reds

You go Comrade.

PS: the King beat me to it. Ah well, nothing wrong with making sure you see it.

D.


Edited by Diavolo (01/31/11 04:57 PM)

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#47715 - 01/31/11 06:58 PM Re: red satanism [Re: Meatl Gear]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1126
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: Meatl Gear
I do not think capitalism is about merit…How many times does an interviewer select an employee by giving them a test, and then taking the person with the highest score?


You have a strange definition of “merit.” Performance on a test can indicate aptitude, but it says nothing about work ethic or responsibility. A stellar test-taker may still sleep in, steal from work, or slack off on the job.

 Originally Posted By: Meatl Gear
Under capitalism, people hire for dumb reasons. They may not like the way your hair is combed…


If someone shows up to a job interview with a green mohawk, he either lacks social skills or he’s apathetic. Those are perfectly legitimate reasons to reject him, as it will affect his performance. In my experience, most employers hire on the basis of credentials, so you’re really making an issue out of nothing.

 Originally Posted By: Meatl Gear
Freedom mean you are free to be an idiot…Stupidity should be painful.


Any employer that hires for stupid reasons will see his business fail against his competitors. The great thing about capitalism is not just that one is free to be stupid, but that one will naturally suffer the consequences of his stupidity.
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#47716 - 01/31/11 07:59 PM Re: red satanism [Re: XiaoGui17]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Communism and Satanism are philosophically mutually exclusive. It is true that Satanism does not represent one political position, but if one truly embraces self deification through manifesting as the adversary to herd mentality and slave ideologies it is incoherent that one should also be a supporter of communism, which is the philosophical grand-poohbah of both of these things.

Also, I can't speak for anyone else, but Satanism to me is not just something directed at religion, but rather religion is just a particular manifestation of what the principle of the adversary stands against. If you are going to decry religion for being a mind control matrix or pushing values counter to our core animal nature, to embrace other, more relevant examples of this same thing shows a lack of understanding, and further separates in a demonstrable way those that are from those that are not.

And with that said, a couple of things -

1: Great points, Fist and Born. I fear though, you might as well be talking to a wall.

2:
 Originally Posted By: myk5
Is Satanism a political position? Really?

No, but politics are of the same stuff as religion. It is a counter position to both.(at least, it can be..I only speak for me)

3:
 Originally Posted By: meatsauce
How many times does an interviewer select an employee by giving them a test, and then taking the person with the highest score? Not very often.

All the time. They call them 'resumes'
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#47742 - 02/01/11 01:13 AM Re: red satanism [Re: XiaoGui17]
myk5 Offline
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Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
Well, the capitalism = merit equation is as realistic as any communism in practice meeting the ideals of communism in theory.

Microsoft is the most successful operating system, but enjoys far less 'merit' than either Linux or Macintosh as an operating system (granted this is a subjective evaluation and gamers especially may disagree).

Pop music now is inundated with 'autotune' to enable mediocre singing in the very top hits.

The most successful fast food restaurants make the least nutritious mediocre food.

The most competent person in any office is often that lowly paid secretary everyone ignores until she gets sick and the office can't function without her.

Of course there are people that are simply brilliant and are compensated in accordance with that brilliance, but it's not so often a correlation between brilliance and wealth or power can be made in general.

Spending the last year of so learning about e-commerce I've figured out the people making the most money are not the people with the best product, but the people that can sell a shitty product to the greatest number of suckers. Marketing to the greed of people with no skill or intelligence, that's the shortcut to wealth online!

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#47744 - 02/01/11 01:35 AM Re: red satanism [Re: myk5]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Of course capitalism=merit. Those that can rise above others by their wits, sweat, and drive do, while those that can't complain and call for a more egalitarian approach. The quality of any given product or service is often times irrelevant, that there will always be suckers is the traction by which the clever move forward.
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#47745 - 02/01/11 02:02 AM Re: red satanism [Re: Dan_Dread]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
quality of any given product or service is often times irrelevant, that there will always be suckers is the traction by which the clever move forward.


This is very true. There's always the example of the old-time barber who watched a Supercuts move in across the street from his old, barber pole store. The sign above the Supercuts read $6 HAIRCUTS. Being a clever entrepreneur, the barber raised a sign over his shop that said, "WE FIX $6 HAIRCUTS."

There will always be shoddy material and shoddy products and there will always be a market for them in those people who will cut any corner to save a dime, and then damn the legitimate products for lasting while theirs crumbles in their hands. The man who finds a way to take advantage of the situation in a win/win scenario merits his wealth and fortune.
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#47747 - 02/01/11 02:53 AM Re: red satanism [Re: Dan_Dread]
TheInsane Offline
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Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Communism and Satanism are philosophically mutually exclusive. It is true that Satanism does not represent one political position, but if one truly embraces self deification through manifesting as the adversary to herd mentality and slave ideologies it is incoherent that one should also be a supporter of communism, which is the philosophical grand-poohbah of both of these things.


 Originally Posted By: Fist
Satanism is about empowering the individual. Marxism is about empowering the collective. In practice, Marxism crushes the individual and makes him subservient to the State. Care to explain how Marxism is the least bit Satanic?




Satanism is not political and it is my firm belief that all political ideologies can be used by Satanists. It all depends on the environment created by the ideology and whether it creates something good for the individual Satanist or not. You cannot try to politicize Satanism since it isn’t meant to be political in the first place. Many people fall into the trap of thinking liberalism equals Satanism in the political spectrum which is as wrong as to equal Satanism with any political ideology.

If communism serves your purposes and goals more than any other ideology then that Satanist should fight for a communist revolution. If not, another ideology might be better suited. Or, like most it seems, not care at all and just try to make it in whatever the current system is.

If anyone is interested how self professed Satanists connect red ideology with Satanism, The Satanic Reds is probably the group to go to.

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#47757 - 02/01/11 08:22 AM Re: red satanism [Re: TheInsane]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
And the resident representative from the local 'Satanism is anything I want it to be' club has spoken. Are you still here?

As I said, this is a good subject to weed those that are from those that aren't, and in that respect is a valuable thread.

Just for LOLs though, insaneinthebrain, why don't you actually explain how your position is coherent instead of your your usual bald 'it is because I say so' style assertions? How can you philosophically both be a Satanist and a communist?


This should be amusing if nothing else...
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#47786 - 02/01/11 12:42 PM Re: red satanism [Re: Dan_Dread]
Jason King Offline
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Registered: 10/24/10
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 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
How can you philosophically both be a Satanist and a communist?

This should be amusing if nothing else...


I'll give it a go, but just because I like driving uphill in the snow . . .

Satanism = maximizing individual betterment. (a loose JK rip)

Here's the rub: we aren't tigers. Human beings exist within a collective matrix of expression we like to deem "society". This is why MONEY was a huge step up in cultural evolution, it allowed for fluidity of transfer among the pack. And so too every "communal" advancement: roads, armies, memes,the internet, etc. No man exists in isolation.

This means that maximizing the self requires maximizing a larger field. Anarchy is an ultimate fail in this regard, unless you're that dude with the long ass beard trappin' rodents on his little island.

We can talk all day about how Satanism favors individual merit, but until we can place that in a viable system of maximizing it, we fail. Understanding human nature as I do, I believe a collectivist model best maximizes the interests of the individual, and I see the alternatives as little more than aristocracies in disguise.
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#47794 - 02/01/11 02:06 PM Re: red satanism [Re: Dan_Dread]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
And the resident representative from the local 'Satanism is anything I want it to be' club has spoken. Are you still here?

As I said, this is a good subject to weed those that are from those that aren't, and in that respect is a valuable thread.

Just for LOLs though, insaneinthebrain, why don't you actually explain how your position is coherent instead of your your usual bald 'it is because I say so' style assertions? How can you philosophically both be a Satanist and a communist?


This should be amusing if nothing else...


I have no idea why you always feel the need to be rude to people. Maybe you are building your image as en “evil Satanist” :P Furthermore regarding the 'it is because I say so' was the critique of the idea that Satanism is somehow political. Would you disagree with that and actually claim Satanism is political?

Now I am no communist and while I have read communist literature I am by no means an expert. Therefore this will by no means be a defense of communism. Jason King has already answered this above and my reply is in the same vein. Satanism is indeed about maximizing individual betterment. How this is achieved is very different and it also has to be because we are all different. Some people think that a communist rule would, in the long run, be beneficial to their own personal betterment which is also why some Satanists claim to be communist or Marxist or reds. Again, I am no communist and wont defend or try to explain how that would happen. They themselves are the best people to go to for an answer regarding that.

The capitalist society is often taken for granted when we discuss success. What equals success in our given society is seen as _actual_ success (in lack of a better way to put it). But as we all should know it is only success measured by the given laws and rules under which we work. Capitalism values nothing more than money so that is what we today measure success in. In other systems other things are valued and if these things fit the individual Satanist better then why should he not strive for that kind of society?

Btw, on the 'Satanism is anything I want it to be' you seemed to not disagree to much with me when I explained my views a few months back but you always come back to critique me. I also invited you to discuss this, public or private, but you never responded. I love a great debate so the invitation is still there if you care accept. I like a good debate and you always learn from it.

I know you have bad blood against me from heated discussions in the past but maybe its time to put that behind you?

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