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#61392 - 11/14/11 01:54 PM Re: red satanism [Re: PrinceOfBabalon]
ClayMan Offline

Registered: 01/09/11
Posts: 7
 Originally Posted By: PrinceOfBabalon
 Originally Posted By: ClayMan
you also may want to have the majority of things for free. Such as free health care, free education, and free food and you recognize the only way to do this is to ally yourself with the Communist, Socialist, or Anarchist revolutionists.

Ever thought of working instead? Developing abilities and traits that make you valuable?

As FemaleSatan as already suggested, nothing is free. Everything requires pay in some form or another. I would much prefer to pay using an artifical currency that I've earned through my own efforts and abilities rather than give up my personal freedom to live on the hand-outs of a national collective.

I already stated you have to work in a Communist society as well. Just not for the basic things you need to live. You still work for the other crap that just makes life easier.

Edited by ClayMan (11/14/11 01:54 PM)

#61395 - 11/14/11 04:15 PM Re: red satanism [Re: ClayMan]
Diavolo Offline

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: ClayMan
True Communism isn't that different from Anarchism. As a Communist you want the total abolishment of money and the class system. But unlike Anarchism you still want their to be State run control. Not national control. There would be no government controlling the states. The states would be governed by the people within the state. The people as a whole would vote on laws to be passed or removed. There would be no one leader or elected group of leaders. As for items and such. The state would provide whatever is essential for survival. If you want extra stuff you will need to work for it. If you work at least 40 hours a week. You will be able to request things at the next state meeting and most likely you will get said things if you have put your time in.

Anarchism is a more extreme version of that. An anarchist world would have no government, no leaders, no money, no states, and no laws. The people would just govern themselves.

Kid what are you rambling about? It might be good to think things through.

You talk about an abolishment of money and the class system but at the same time you talk about doing extra work for extra favors. So what's the difference if I have to work 10 hours more for cash or for a privilege?

Then you talk about no government controlling the state and people voting laws but who do you think is going to control if people obey those laws or not? Who is going to punish them when not? Who is going to hunt them down? Your state provides what is essential for survival? Who is, because you say there is no state?

No offense but this is Sesame Street politics.


#61402 - 11/15/11 12:51 AM Re: red satanism [Re: ClayMan]
Octavian Offline

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 81
It is suggested that you can pursue your own rational self interest, or your own particular agenda through a political/social/economic arrangement which is supposed to be deliberately designed to minimise your own particular self interest or individual agenda.

Instead of the acceptance of stratification, anti-egalitarianism, difference, and will to power and pleasure as natural conditions for the successful pursuit of individual agendas and forms of rational self interest, we have yet another form of collectivism, levelling down, and binding of those who have the talent to forge ahead of the mass.

The fact that the capitalist class arrangement of the bourgeoisie and the proletariat is replaced by the new communist class arrangement of the workers and the bureaucrat/party leadership is telling I think. Natural relations between human beings tend to win through no matter what sort of political/economic/social arrangements is adopted I would say.

I dislike Communism as I find it to be fundamentally alien to Satanism. Marx’s historical and dialectical materialism pretty much annihilates the individual under inevitable historical/economic laws. I do not appreciate the Hegelian notion of the historic inevitability of the idea, nor its fleshing out as material individual-less praxis under Marxism.

I also found the analysis of capitalism proposed in Das Kapital and the suggestion that the fundamental components of Capitalism are reflected in social functions and the consciousness of human beings, as highlighted most strongly by Lukacs, to be rather depressing on the one hand, and rather untenable when one compares how extraordinary some individuals can be, no matter which class they come from.

Anyway the thing is pretty much discredited now as a viable alternative for people I think, unless somebody can really ramp it up and give it some life, make some changes to the thing.

Hell, what Marx said and what the Soviet's etc. did look like two different things to me anyway!

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