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#48105 - 02/05/11 11:53 AM Thoughts on infidelity?
Opacus Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/21/10
Posts: 23
Loc: Hell
Myself and many of my friends have had to suffer through infidelity from a significant other.

It seems like anyone over the age of 50 or so seems to be the last generation that didn't have this problem being as widespread as it is today.

So, from a Satanic viewpoint, what do ya'll think about this? Ways to stop it? SHOULD we stop it?

Now as a Satanist I'm all for the carnal.

I'm also for extreme punishment for people who wrong others so this makes it a tricky subject.

On the one hand, it's just the way the human animal is.
On the other though, if someone crosses the boundries I like to take a "Book of Fire" idea of things, within the law.

Now, in the real world, I'm just not wired the same way everyone else is. I suspect this is true of most Satanists who just aren't pretending.

My word is my bond: When married I never cheated although I had ample opportunities to do so (I'm attractive in real life).

I am developing as much of an iron Will as I can; I have good impulse control; I have integrity.

But the problem is MOST people don't. So to stave off the "sin" of solipsism I guess you can't expect others to have my traits.

But unchecked, this type of behavior (infidelity) starts to impinge upon my own life and that of loved ones.

So what to do? And as a side-question: WHY does this keep happening? Why did it NOT happen as much in the past?

I'm concerned that this constant infidelity is going to lead to econmic disaster eventually.

O.

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#48107 - 02/05/11 12:03 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Opacus]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Look, guy... I'm 61 and it's happened A LOT long, long before I was born.

My best advice is, if she doesn't want to be with you, there are at least 3 other women out there somewhere in the world. I know I've seen National Geographic specials where they've sent safaris deep into the Amazon basin to see if they can find women. So far, there have only been rumors and panties hanging from low lying branches above the Amazon and smiling piranha.

The statistics on infidelity in the United States run high, but they always have, and marriages fail on about a 50% basis. People change. Needs change. Sometimes there's just something missing. Show me someone who's never lost anyone, and I'll show you a person who's just been lucky.

I see that you're listed the person as a "significant other." Really... that's pretty tenuous at best, but if it's happened, it's happened and you have three choices. You can forgive her and take her back (IF she wants you), you can sit there an cry and get PMS (Poor Me Syndrome), or you can open your door and yell, "NEXT!!!"
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#48113 - 02/05/11 12:39 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Opacus]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I'm a one woman man, if I am in a relationship. Since I am faithful I expect my partner to be faithful as well. If this proves to be difficult for them, I kick them to the curb. It's as simple as that.

You can't stop someone from being unfaithful in a relationship; people are going to do what they want to do. All that you can do is try and find a woman or man who wants the same thing you do. And if they cheat on you then get rid of them.

I've known people to take their boyfriends or girlfriends back after being cheated on and then they act all surprised when it happens again. This is a textbook example of stupidity and one that receives no sympathy from this corner.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#48120 - 02/05/11 01:08 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Opacus Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/21/10
Posts: 23
Loc: Hell
Thanks for the replies guys. I'm not really that concerned about MYSELF actually; I have plenty to keep me busy.

But my friends man, my heart bleeds for them.

I'm not wired to forgive, so taking someone back is out of the question lol. *I* wouldn't want to live with me, so no sane woman would either lol.

In THIS type of situation, do you ever think of steeping in with some flavor of Justice? My gut telle me it isn't my problem but I hate to see UNDESERVING people get the shaft.

People who DESERVE it are another thing altogether.

You know, just the fact that I even had to ask this means I need to do some work on myself. This isn't Oprah, I ought to be able to figure it out on my own.

O.

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#48128 - 02/05/11 03:34 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Opacus]
Knievel74 Offline
member


Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 145
Loc: NY
Infidelity is usually based on miscommunication. Unless both parties agree to not have sex with anyone else, then they both can do whatever and whoever they want. Some people expect the other person to be faithful just because they're dating. That's a silly idea. Dating is just dating. It isn't a commitment to each other.

Marriage, on the other hand is a commitment to each other. And even then, it's totally up to the couple if they're not going to have sex with anyone else. But too many people marry for the wrong reasons. They marry because they're co-dependent and just want to marry anybody . So, they marry a person who's totally wrong for them. After a while, when they realize their mistake, they start looking at other people.

You said that you feel sorry for your friends who've been cheated on. But really, you shouldn't. If you look at the situation from a purely objective point of view, you'll see that it was most likely their fault. Especilly if it happens to them more than once.

Also, infidelity is purely subjective to an individual's point of view.
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"Man was meant to live, not just to exist". - Evel Knievel

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#48143 - 02/05/11 06:31 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Knievel74]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
I have a standing order that if anyone wants step out with my wife then 'god bless.' The only thing I ask is that the guy (or girl) take over payments. Frankly, I don't think most of them can afford her.

In any event, I can only offer the sage advice of other sages:

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the law, love under will." - The Book of Law

You may want to look into Crowley's thoughts on the True Will.

I am working from memory here, but I believe there is a quote in the Black Book of Satan - 'Never love something so much that cannot stand to watch it die.'
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#48144 - 02/05/11 06:40 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Fist]
Pheonix666 Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/02/11
Posts: 22
Loc: So Cal
 Originally Posted By: Fist
'Never love something so much that cannot stand to watch it die.'

Sorry, but that doesn't sit well with me, and I'm sure it doesn't with others. How could one love another person, and not hurt to see them die? Wouldn't a part of yourself die with them either way?

-sigh- If you love someone enough, you'd want to be with them until the end. So, why would anyone listen to such a quote in the first place?

My apologies for this. It struck a chord with me.
_________________________
I bring the Light, but will you receive it?

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#48148 - 02/05/11 07:12 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Pheonix666]
myk5 Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
I think the problem is largely one of self deception and lack of communication in the relationship.

Some people are simply not suited to monogamy, when self aware such people opt for 'open relationships'. I have a friend that could be a lover were it not that he knows this of himself and doesn't hide the fact. This means he attracts partners that will love him for who he is in life, and it's best knowing that is NOT who I am right at the beginning.

Often, despite being loved that love is not returned, or becomes a love that is not returned, and it is reasoned, that given the pain of sharing this truth could cause the other, perhaps it is best to seek emotional and sexual fulfillment outside of the relationship keeping your partner in the dark. The veritable 'road to heck' paved with 'good intentions'.

Possibly most common -the relationship does work or could work on all levels, but the respect held for the wife or husband prevents them from introducing a deeply needed sexual kink into the love life, therefore a solution seems to be that sex outside the relationship is called for. Responsibly this would be with a professional that would pose no threat to the treasured existing relationship.

My advice is to be upfront and honest about your needs with the person you have a relationship with; unfortunately depending on those needs, it can make finding the right partner more difficult. On the other hand, not having clarity about what you do want can gaurantee you never have what you really want.

Yes, tell your wife/husband you love her/him but you need to have sex outside the relationship, if that is really what is true for you. Have the courage to accept the person you love you may not be able to have a relationship with because something like that is true for them. It's the surprise not knowing who your partner is that is the issue. If you knew the person you're getting into a relationship with cannot be monogamous - it's your responsibility to deal with it when they are true to their nature.

As far as I'm concerned this is a matter of personal courage. If you cannot have the truth in your relationship you deserve to be surprised about who your partner turns out to be. Rather than be shocked when they cheat on you - it might be more appropriate to be shocked that they are Faithful.

This expectation that your partner will be faithful, it's Christian programming and very western. In other cultures you're expected to only make babies with the one person, and to fuck many folks outside of that marriage - you are a human being with sexual needs after all!


Edited by myk5 (02/05/11 07:13 PM)

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#48149 - 02/05/11 07:33 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: myk5]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
It just comes down to personal choice.

A relationship has many ups and downs, it is through this that it is tested. If you love someone and it is a strong mutual love then it can handle and work through a case of infidelity.

If it more than one time, then you have to consider if the relationship is something you want to continue.

If you give your word in regards to the relationship, and don't feel you can keep it, just end the relationship instead of lying. The same goes with marriage, if you can't see waking up with the same person for the rest of your life, then don't do it.

As for sexual compatibility, you are an idiot and deserve to be cheated on if you don't discuss this before marriage or in the beginning of any relationship.

M
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#48150 - 02/05/11 07:55 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: myk5]
paolo sette Offline
member


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
 Quote:
I think the problem is largely one of self deception and lack of communication in the relationship.



The object of conversation (infidelity) as it applies to you implies the tactic of acquiring a new-viewpoint for looking into the essence of it. You have been in the habit of thinking logically according to the rules, rid yourself of it and you may come around somewhat to the Satanic viewpoint.

You and I are supposedly living in the same world, but by your writing you do not see and know about infidelity. For example, you and I sip a cup of tea. The act is apparently alike to both of us, but there is a wide gap subjectively between your drinking and my drinking. In your drinking, there may be rules or Laws that you follow. While mine is brim-full of anti-moral Evilness. The reason for it is: you move in a logical circle and I am out of it.

Though there is nothing new in your so-called viewpoint, the term 'new' is convient to express Satanic way of viewing the situation; however, its use here is a condecension on the part of Satanism.

666
_________________________
tathagata-svapratyatma-aryajnana-adhigama
666
[nig]-ge-na-da a-ba in-da-di nam-ti i-u-tu

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#48158 - 02/05/11 10:35 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: paolo sette]
myk5 Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
I'm not representing myself as a Satanist, I'm speaking for no one other than myself and from no experience other than my own.

I've had my existential insight, I alone am responsible for the 'rules' I follow. If rules imposed on me conflict with my authentic nature, I do not respect them.

If you prefer a relationship where you keep your partner in an illusion allowing you to cheat on them at will, more power to you. That's not something that would be rewarding for me as far as I know, and I try to not being in a habit of bullshitting myself.

This talk of the 'Satanic point of view' is curious. I doubt you've found concensus on this point.

If 'the Satanic point of view' demands 'anti-morality' (I don't believe in 'evil') I am sincerely curious about it, as i am a kind of paradigm junkie and such an idea is sexy in its novelty and newness.

But understand that I agree with the premise of Saabah: Nothing is true, everything is permitted. Which is to suggest there is nothing to be 'anti' towards. I accept or invent that which serves me, as I create myself to be. A Satanic point of view that would falsify this premise and reject my freedom is not something i could ever personally accept. I would be interested in learning more though.

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#48161 - 02/05/11 10:52 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: myk5]
Tallulah Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/16/11
Posts: 10
Infidelity is not new. It's a matter of what an individual is made of, what he values and what he is. The important thing in this regard is to know the person you are choosing to have a relationship with well enough to know their values, and whether those values are compatible with your own. If you value loyalty, but your partner has been unfaithful, it would seem right to me not to punish them, but to evict them from your life - in fact, if you don't, it is like saying it is okay. And of course, if you are a free spirit sexually, it would not make much sense to take up with someone who believes in fidelity. I'm not big on forgiveness, either.
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~Tallulah~

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#48164 - 02/05/11 11:01 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Tallulah]
myk5 Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
If you and your partner agree that you do not want the relationship to end, infidelity need not end the relationship. It's not a function of forgiveness as much as respect for what both parties want.

If who you are is someone that cannot tolerate infidelity, then excising the unfaithful person from your life is the right thing to do.

It's all about who you are and who your partner is. Each relationship is unique, it's what makes them interesting.

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#48184 - 02/06/11 06:26 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Pheonix666]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3051
 Quote:
Sorry, but that doesn't sit well with me, and I'm sure it doesn't with others.

Ugh, only speak for yourself. But perhaps it is more wise to place the quoted sentence in its original and complete context. Just read the black book of Satan. It's free to find online .

As about indifelity. I would hate to hear my girlfriend cheating on me or having made a misstep. Her stuff would be nicely packed once she is at home, a small card "kind regards, leave the key at the table and GTFO". No discussion possible under any circumstances and I'd be going to the nearest party looking at that hot girl I always wanted to go off with but couldn't due of having a relationship.


Edited by Dimitri (02/06/11 06:26 AM)
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#48194 - 02/06/11 09:32 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Dimitri]
Opacus Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/21/10
Posts: 23
Loc: Hell
I wanted to thank everyone for their thoughts on this.

Yesterday, I spent almost the whole day on the phone with various people gathering more information on this.

As it happens, there is a lot more to it than I knew initially (isn't there always in these cases?) and it is convulted enough I'm just going to let it be.

Some general thoughts:

If you look at humans from a solely biological standpoint NO ONE is monogamous. Men aren't, and women are hypergamous. I have to study people for a living so this isn't exactly knew thinking here. It's like biology 101.

I have to read a LOT of anthropology/sociology and psych books and research for my job. But one of the things I noticed is that even though we ARE NOT "genetically" monogamous almost ALL socities had restrictions on "free love".

For the longest time I couldn't figure out why that was until I was looking at some strange research on economics and sexuality. The bottom line is that a society tends to decline, not in a moral or ethical way, but simply an economic one without monogamy. Well, technically it has to do a bit more with the family unit being intact but still.

One of my biggest failings as a Satanist is, though I KNOW BETTER, I keep expecting everyone to act/think/perceive like I do.

And of course they don't. While *I* don't need anything to make me behave, and I'm sure most of you guys don't (even though our ideas of right/wrong is usually antinomian to the general public) EVERYONE ELSE does.

The TL;DR is Most people aren't Satanists and have to be led around by the hand.

Anyway, this all falls into all this crap that is happening. I had issues (well, still do) in my own marriage that doesn't have anything to do with infidelity initally and it was because I kept expecting my wife to be wired like me.

So, yeah.

I'm going to have to let my buddy get through this himself.

Also, as I continue to read more and more of ASL work I realize he was a REALLY perceptive man.

People in relationships, and parents too, should have the "Law of the Forbidden" explained to them over and over.

O.

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