Page all of 7 12345>Last »
Topic Options
#48105 - 02/05/11 11:53 AM Thoughts on infidelity?
Opacus Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/21/10
Posts: 23
Loc: Hell
Myself and many of my friends have had to suffer through infidelity from a significant other.

It seems like anyone over the age of 50 or so seems to be the last generation that didn't have this problem being as widespread as it is today.

So, from a Satanic viewpoint, what do ya'll think about this? Ways to stop it? SHOULD we stop it?

Now as a Satanist I'm all for the carnal.

I'm also for extreme punishment for people who wrong others so this makes it a tricky subject.

On the one hand, it's just the way the human animal is.
On the other though, if someone crosses the boundries I like to take a "Book of Fire" idea of things, within the law.

Now, in the real world, I'm just not wired the same way everyone else is. I suspect this is true of most Satanists who just aren't pretending.

My word is my bond: When married I never cheated although I had ample opportunities to do so (I'm attractive in real life).

I am developing as much of an iron Will as I can; I have good impulse control; I have integrity.

But the problem is MOST people don't. So to stave off the "sin" of solipsism I guess you can't expect others to have my traits.

But unchecked, this type of behavior (infidelity) starts to impinge upon my own life and that of loved ones.

So what to do? And as a side-question: WHY does this keep happening? Why did it NOT happen as much in the past?

I'm concerned that this constant infidelity is going to lead to econmic disaster eventually.

O.

Top
#48107 - 02/05/11 12:03 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Opacus]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Look, guy... I'm 61 and it's happened A LOT long, long before I was born.

My best advice is, if she doesn't want to be with you, there are at least 3 other women out there somewhere in the world. I know I've seen National Geographic specials where they've sent safaris deep into the Amazon basin to see if they can find women. So far, there have only been rumors and panties hanging from low lying branches above the Amazon and smiling piranha.

The statistics on infidelity in the United States run high, but they always have, and marriages fail on about a 50% basis. People change. Needs change. Sometimes there's just something missing. Show me someone who's never lost anyone, and I'll show you a person who's just been lucky.

I see that you're listed the person as a "significant other." Really... that's pretty tenuous at best, but if it's happened, it's happened and you have three choices. You can forgive her and take her back (IF she wants you), you can sit there an cry and get PMS (Poor Me Syndrome), or you can open your door and yell, "NEXT!!!"
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


Top
#48113 - 02/05/11 12:39 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Opacus]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I'm a one woman man, if I am in a relationship. Since I am faithful I expect my partner to be faithful as well. If this proves to be difficult for them, I kick them to the curb. It's as simple as that.

You can't stop someone from being unfaithful in a relationship; people are going to do what they want to do. All that you can do is try and find a woman or man who wants the same thing you do. And if they cheat on you then get rid of them.

I've known people to take their boyfriends or girlfriends back after being cheated on and then they act all surprised when it happens again. This is a textbook example of stupidity and one that receives no sympathy from this corner.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#48120 - 02/05/11 01:08 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Opacus Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/21/10
Posts: 23
Loc: Hell
Thanks for the replies guys. I'm not really that concerned about MYSELF actually; I have plenty to keep me busy.

But my friends man, my heart bleeds for them.

I'm not wired to forgive, so taking someone back is out of the question lol. *I* wouldn't want to live with me, so no sane woman would either lol.

In THIS type of situation, do you ever think of steeping in with some flavor of Justice? My gut telle me it isn't my problem but I hate to see UNDESERVING people get the shaft.

People who DESERVE it are another thing altogether.

You know, just the fact that I even had to ask this means I need to do some work on myself. This isn't Oprah, I ought to be able to figure it out on my own.

O.

Top
#48128 - 02/05/11 03:34 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Opacus]
Knievel74 Offline
member


Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 149
Loc: NY
Infidelity is usually based on miscommunication. Unless both parties agree to not have sex with anyone else, then they both can do whatever and whoever they want. Some people expect the other person to be faithful just because they're dating. That's a silly idea. Dating is just dating. It isn't a commitment to each other.

Marriage, on the other hand is a commitment to each other. And even then, it's totally up to the couple if they're not going to have sex with anyone else. But too many people marry for the wrong reasons. They marry because they're co-dependent and just want to marry anybody . So, they marry a person who's totally wrong for them. After a while, when they realize their mistake, they start looking at other people.

You said that you feel sorry for your friends who've been cheated on. But really, you shouldn't. If you look at the situation from a purely objective point of view, you'll see that it was most likely their fault. Especilly if it happens to them more than once.

Also, infidelity is purely subjective to an individual's point of view.
_________________________
"Man was meant to live, not just to exist". - Evel Knievel

Top
#48143 - 02/05/11 06:31 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Knievel74]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
I have a standing order that if anyone wants step out with my wife then 'god bless.' The only thing I ask is that the guy (or girl) take over payments. Frankly, I don't think most of them can afford her.

In any event, I can only offer the sage advice of other sages:

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the law, love under will." - The Book of Law

You may want to look into Crowley's thoughts on the True Will.

I am working from memory here, but I believe there is a quote in the Black Book of Satan - 'Never love something so much that cannot stand to watch it die.'
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

Top
#48144 - 02/05/11 06:40 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Fist]
Pheonix666 Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/02/11
Posts: 22
Loc: So Cal
 Originally Posted By: Fist
'Never love something so much that cannot stand to watch it die.'

Sorry, but that doesn't sit well with me, and I'm sure it doesn't with others. How could one love another person, and not hurt to see them die? Wouldn't a part of yourself die with them either way?

-sigh- If you love someone enough, you'd want to be with them until the end. So, why would anyone listen to such a quote in the first place?

My apologies for this. It struck a chord with me.
_________________________
I bring the Light, but will you receive it?

Top
#48148 - 02/05/11 07:12 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Pheonix666]
myk5 Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
I think the problem is largely one of self deception and lack of communication in the relationship.

Some people are simply not suited to monogamy, when self aware such people opt for 'open relationships'. I have a friend that could be a lover were it not that he knows this of himself and doesn't hide the fact. This means he attracts partners that will love him for who he is in life, and it's best knowing that is NOT who I am right at the beginning.

Often, despite being loved that love is not returned, or becomes a love that is not returned, and it is reasoned, that given the pain of sharing this truth could cause the other, perhaps it is best to seek emotional and sexual fulfillment outside of the relationship keeping your partner in the dark. The veritable 'road to heck' paved with 'good intentions'.

Possibly most common -the relationship does work or could work on all levels, but the respect held for the wife or husband prevents them from introducing a deeply needed sexual kink into the love life, therefore a solution seems to be that sex outside the relationship is called for. Responsibly this would be with a professional that would pose no threat to the treasured existing relationship.

My advice is to be upfront and honest about your needs with the person you have a relationship with; unfortunately depending on those needs, it can make finding the right partner more difficult. On the other hand, not having clarity about what you do want can gaurantee you never have what you really want.

Yes, tell your wife/husband you love her/him but you need to have sex outside the relationship, if that is really what is true for you. Have the courage to accept the person you love you may not be able to have a relationship with because something like that is true for them. It's the surprise not knowing who your partner is that is the issue. If you knew the person you're getting into a relationship with cannot be monogamous - it's your responsibility to deal with it when they are true to their nature.

As far as I'm concerned this is a matter of personal courage. If you cannot have the truth in your relationship you deserve to be surprised about who your partner turns out to be. Rather than be shocked when they cheat on you - it might be more appropriate to be shocked that they are Faithful.

This expectation that your partner will be faithful, it's Christian programming and very western. In other cultures you're expected to only make babies with the one person, and to fuck many folks outside of that marriage - you are a human being with sexual needs after all!


Edited by myk5 (02/05/11 07:13 PM)

Top
#48149 - 02/05/11 07:33 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: myk5]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
It just comes down to personal choice.

A relationship has many ups and downs, it is through this that it is tested. If you love someone and it is a strong mutual love then it can handle and work through a case of infidelity.

If it more than one time, then you have to consider if the relationship is something you want to continue.

If you give your word in regards to the relationship, and don't feel you can keep it, just end the relationship instead of lying. The same goes with marriage, if you can't see waking up with the same person for the rest of your life, then don't do it.

As for sexual compatibility, you are an idiot and deserve to be cheated on if you don't discuss this before marriage or in the beginning of any relationship.

M
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#48150 - 02/05/11 07:55 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: myk5]
paolo sette Offline
member


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
 Quote:
I think the problem is largely one of self deception and lack of communication in the relationship.



The object of conversation (infidelity) as it applies to you implies the tactic of acquiring a new-viewpoint for looking into the essence of it. You have been in the habit of thinking logically according to the rules, rid yourself of it and you may come around somewhat to the Satanic viewpoint.

You and I are supposedly living in the same world, but by your writing you do not see and know about infidelity. For example, you and I sip a cup of tea. The act is apparently alike to both of us, but there is a wide gap subjectively between your drinking and my drinking. In your drinking, there may be rules or Laws that you follow. While mine is brim-full of anti-moral Evilness. The reason for it is: you move in a logical circle and I am out of it.

Though there is nothing new in your so-called viewpoint, the term 'new' is convient to express Satanic way of viewing the situation; however, its use here is a condecension on the part of Satanism.

666
_________________________
tathagata-svapratyatma-aryajnana-adhigama
666
[nig]-ge-na-da a-ba in-da-di nam-ti i-u-tu

Top
#48158 - 02/05/11 10:35 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: paolo sette]
myk5 Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
I'm not representing myself as a Satanist, I'm speaking for no one other than myself and from no experience other than my own.

I've had my existential insight, I alone am responsible for the 'rules' I follow. If rules imposed on me conflict with my authentic nature, I do not respect them.

If you prefer a relationship where you keep your partner in an illusion allowing you to cheat on them at will, more power to you. That's not something that would be rewarding for me as far as I know, and I try to not being in a habit of bullshitting myself.

This talk of the 'Satanic point of view' is curious. I doubt you've found concensus on this point.

If 'the Satanic point of view' demands 'anti-morality' (I don't believe in 'evil') I am sincerely curious about it, as i am a kind of paradigm junkie and such an idea is sexy in its novelty and newness.

But understand that I agree with the premise of Saabah: Nothing is true, everything is permitted. Which is to suggest there is nothing to be 'anti' towards. I accept or invent that which serves me, as I create myself to be. A Satanic point of view that would falsify this premise and reject my freedom is not something i could ever personally accept. I would be interested in learning more though.

Top
#48161 - 02/05/11 10:52 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: myk5]
Tallulah Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/16/11
Posts: 10
Infidelity is not new. It's a matter of what an individual is made of, what he values and what he is. The important thing in this regard is to know the person you are choosing to have a relationship with well enough to know their values, and whether those values are compatible with your own. If you value loyalty, but your partner has been unfaithful, it would seem right to me not to punish them, but to evict them from your life - in fact, if you don't, it is like saying it is okay. And of course, if you are a free spirit sexually, it would not make much sense to take up with someone who believes in fidelity. I'm not big on forgiveness, either.
_________________________
~Tallulah~

Top
#48164 - 02/05/11 11:01 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Tallulah]
myk5 Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
If you and your partner agree that you do not want the relationship to end, infidelity need not end the relationship. It's not a function of forgiveness as much as respect for what both parties want.

If who you are is someone that cannot tolerate infidelity, then excising the unfaithful person from your life is the right thing to do.

It's all about who you are and who your partner is. Each relationship is unique, it's what makes them interesting.

Top
#48184 - 02/06/11 06:26 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Pheonix666]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Quote:
Sorry, but that doesn't sit well with me, and I'm sure it doesn't with others.

Ugh, only speak for yourself. But perhaps it is more wise to place the quoted sentence in its original and complete context. Just read the black book of Satan. It's free to find online .

As about indifelity. I would hate to hear my girlfriend cheating on me or having made a misstep. Her stuff would be nicely packed once she is at home, a small card "kind regards, leave the key at the table and GTFO". No discussion possible under any circumstances and I'd be going to the nearest party looking at that hot girl I always wanted to go off with but couldn't due of having a relationship.


Edited by Dimitri (02/06/11 06:26 AM)
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#48194 - 02/06/11 09:32 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Dimitri]
Opacus Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/21/10
Posts: 23
Loc: Hell
I wanted to thank everyone for their thoughts on this.

Yesterday, I spent almost the whole day on the phone with various people gathering more information on this.

As it happens, there is a lot more to it than I knew initially (isn't there always in these cases?) and it is convulted enough I'm just going to let it be.

Some general thoughts:

If you look at humans from a solely biological standpoint NO ONE is monogamous. Men aren't, and women are hypergamous. I have to study people for a living so this isn't exactly knew thinking here. It's like biology 101.

I have to read a LOT of anthropology/sociology and psych books and research for my job. But one of the things I noticed is that even though we ARE NOT "genetically" monogamous almost ALL socities had restrictions on "free love".

For the longest time I couldn't figure out why that was until I was looking at some strange research on economics and sexuality. The bottom line is that a society tends to decline, not in a moral or ethical way, but simply an economic one without monogamy. Well, technically it has to do a bit more with the family unit being intact but still.

One of my biggest failings as a Satanist is, though I KNOW BETTER, I keep expecting everyone to act/think/perceive like I do.

And of course they don't. While *I* don't need anything to make me behave, and I'm sure most of you guys don't (even though our ideas of right/wrong is usually antinomian to the general public) EVERYONE ELSE does.

The TL;DR is Most people aren't Satanists and have to be led around by the hand.

Anyway, this all falls into all this crap that is happening. I had issues (well, still do) in my own marriage that doesn't have anything to do with infidelity initally and it was because I kept expecting my wife to be wired like me.

So, yeah.

I'm going to have to let my buddy get through this himself.

Also, as I continue to read more and more of ASL work I realize he was a REALLY perceptive man.

People in relationships, and parents too, should have the "Law of the Forbidden" explained to them over and over.

O.

Top
#48195 - 02/06/11 09:35 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Dimitri]
COINTELPRO Offline
lurker


Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 4
Loc: Colorado
There are a lot of interesting and insightful responses here.
As a satanist and a soldier; self-discipline is doubly a virtue to me. Practice of this self-discipline includes the taming of whatever potentially harmful (to myself or those I love)impulses.
In my wife I have found a person who I can love because she has shown herself to be worthy of love; and of my devotion. The oath I took when I married her is one that I do not take lightly; and to break it in order to satisfy a transient feeling of lust would be failing myself as well as her.
It has been said several times in this thread already; but your word must have substance or else you compromise the integrity of your being.
To betray her would be to betray myself and thus fall woefully short of my own expectations.
My will should be stronger than my appetite.
My love, whether expressed physically or otherwise is exclusive to her...to do otherwise would cheapen it.
For me, loyalty is the source of all other 'virtues'. If I cannot be true to my wife and my children; those people who bring me the greatest joy in life; then I am essentially worthless as a man and as a satanist. To cheat is to be undeserving of either of those labels.
_________________________
"Display some f*cking adaptability!"
-CPL Bobby M. Shaftoe, USMC

Top
#48314 - 02/07/11 04:18 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: COINTELPRO]
paolo sette Offline
member


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
 Quote:
This talk of the 'Satanic point of view' is curious. I doubt you've found concensus on this point.



This acquiring of a new viewpoint is called expanding Mind and its noun form is Knowledge. Without it there is no Satanism, for the life of Satanism begins with 'opening of Mind.' Mind may be defined as a looking-into in contradistinction to intellectual and logical understanding. Whatever the definition, expanding Mind means the unfolding of a new world hitherto unperceived in the confusion of one's discriminating intellect. With this remark, there are examples abound to illustrate my statements.

p.s.--You may substitue Setism for Satanism.
_________________________
tathagata-svapratyatma-aryajnana-adhigama
666
[nig]-ge-na-da a-ba in-da-di nam-ti i-u-tu

Top
#48317 - 02/07/11 05:39 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Opacus]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1146
Loc: Amarillo, TX
Keep the commitments that you make—so don’t make any commitments you can’t keep. Many friends and family members of my fiancé were clucking about the fact that we had an open relationship, so I asked him, “How would things go if we were exclusive?”

He looked me in the eye and said, “I would cheat on you.” Now that’s honesty.

The most serial cheaters are the ones who are chronically dissatisfied but too chickenshit to speak up. Instead of saying, “Honey, it really bugs me that you never go down on me,” they sneak around and cheat. If you don’t want to be cheated on, find someone that isn’t afraid to be honest with you, and take criticism well.
_________________________
Wir halten uns an Regeln, Wenn man uns regeln lässt

Top
#48327 - 02/07/11 07:22 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: XiaoGui17]
Wulf Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/05/11
Posts: 14
Loc: Covington, Kentucky
 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17
Keep the commitments that you make—so don’t make any commitments you can’t keep. Many friends and family members of my fiancé were clucking about the fact that we had an open relationship, so I asked him, “How would things go if we were exclusive?”

He looked me in the eye and said, “I would cheat on you.” Now that’s honesty.

The most serial cheaters are the ones who are chronically dissatisfied but too chickenshit to speak up. Instead of saying, “Honey, it really bugs me that you never go down on me,” they sneak around and cheat. If you don’t want to be cheated on, find someone that isn’t afraid to be honest with you, and take criticism well.


People are too scared to be honest. That is what annoys me the most. I never put a full 100% into a relationship. I have whats called the "60/40" rule. To me it's more of a business. I concentrate more on the sex and other things, rather than actual feeling. It's a waste of time. Nothing is forever. My ex reminded me how weak people actually are. That women can be influenced easily and just made my standing more of a reality for me.
_________________________
I Raise the sword of vengeance.

Top
#48329 - 02/07/11 07:37 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Wulf]
Tallulah Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/16/11
Posts: 10
I dunno. For me it's about the context of the relationship. There was time when I had casual relationships, with no big expectations or commitment. It was fine, suited both our purposes, and caused no hard feelings. It was friendly. But then I got in a serious relationship, and cheating is not something that even exists in this context. In the former, the old days, you could hardly call it cheating, because the relationships were of a different flavor.

Mostly I think one should be honest with oneself, and know who you're taking up with and what you both want out of it.
_________________________
~Tallulah~

Top
#48350 - 02/08/11 04:49 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Opacus]
Seth_W Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/08/11
Posts: 17
no, it cannot be stopped, how can you stop the natural way of things or creatures???
there are many reasons this may be a common reocurrance, the reasons are insignifigant though, mainly because you'll never know them. we got to walk our path and sweep from it any distraction(s).

infidelity is natural. to say that it isnt is to say that lust isnt natural, but we know that it is natural, therefore infidelity is natural as it is spawned from lust. furthermore to say that infidelity is wrong is to say that being natural is wrong...
to be natural is to be what you are, is being what you are wrong? if it is then in order to be right you must be something your not, which would make you a pretender, a liar.
if you want an eclusive relationship you wouldnt want someone who dosnt, correct? so dont be with someone who dosnt, leave them behind at the first sign of this conflict of interest. its not infidelity that hurts, its emotion. emotion is a merciless killer. emotion curves the path in front of us, we must learn to act and think without the influence of emotion...its the only reason infidelity is a big topic in the first place.

Top
#48370 - 02/08/11 10:43 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Seth_W]
Opacus Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/21/10
Posts: 23
Loc: Hell
Seth,
That sounds pretty good on paper, but the problem with this is (as a few previous posters noted) people just don't KNOW themselves well-enough to be able to say they won't cheat.

If you DO get that it is great, but I'd be willing to bet the MAJORITY of the folks who cheat or got cheated on never thought it would happen.

That's why there used to be sociatal rules to stop it from happening.

Really, the point of this is if you DO know yourself well and you CAN have good impulse control, no one needs to "make you behave".

Of the Satanists I know in real life most of them are like this. They see the world as it really is and a more honest with themsleves and others.

But most people are'nt like that and so we end up with a mess.

Getting back to the buddy of mine who had the problem that really started this thread, it turns out that his ex was just crazy.

O.

Top
#48447 - 02/09/11 06:45 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Opacus]
Seth_W Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/08/11
Posts: 17
true, i cannot deny anything you said. we may know ourselves but we dont know and cannot know how we will react to foreign stimuli...a part of me believes that everyone in this world would cheat under the right circumstances.
its a painful subject...

Top
#48821 - 02/14/11 11:09 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Opacus]
danteamore Offline
lurker


Registered: 02/11/11
Posts: 3
I don't think you would have the right to decide who deserves something or not, in terms of punishments. As you said, it turns out it is more complicated than it seems. As for infidelity, it is always bad, because you are calling the activity infidelity. If someone sleeps with someone else with or without the knowledge of his/her partner, yet there has been an established open-sexuality conversation between them, than in this case, what appears to be infidelity to an outsider is merely an alternative sexual lifestyle. It is the same as the semantics behind a how to spot a gold digger gold digger, a prostitute, a husband, a wife, heterosexual/homosexual... So i guess you have answered your own question.

Edited by danteamore (02/14/11 11:09 AM)

Top
#49356 - 02/22/11 03:28 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Opacus]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Infidelity is fallacy, why? because if a woman/ man feels the attraction to somebody else then it is so in reality.

What a man must do is certainly not get married and take his female for granted in wretched contentment, sitting in an armchair being an ignorant cunt to his wife because he can just fuck her how he likes when the need suits him because she's his now. Rather, a man ought to try every day to stimulate his female partners sexual attraction/ needs and fulfil those needs for himself and her, to lust for her uninhibited and she will feel this.

Any kind of moral dilemma about who is wrong or right is pointless a woman does not belong to any man, she will stay with him for as long as she is fulfilled and protected, any abuse to a female including ignorance and neglect, unintuitiveness, will have rendered them 'gone' already, mentally, emotionally, physically. Please her and yourself naturally, let the ego die and be together mentally, this is all I can say.

But please bear in mind that it is natural for a female to leave the bad boy type for a provider after bearing child. So you might want to make adjustments to your lifestyle if you want to keep deep sticking your female for years to come.

I have never cheated on a female, why? because I have always been so attracted to the one I am fucking. The one I have chosen to fuck because of uncontrollable attraction. (I am shallow and only go for dark haired 'greek' girls)

I do not choose unsuitable less than females, that would be insane and unnatural.
_________________________


Top
#49366 - 02/22/11 07:44 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Hegesias]
Woland Moderator Offline
Seasoned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 764
Loc: Oslo, Norway
My two cents:

To cheat is to lie.
I do not like liars.

A good relationship is grounded on personal growth and intimacy.
Intimacy is (in my book) based on trust.
I do not like those who betray my trust.

Being somewhat of years I have tried several variations of human companionship.
Especially interesting was my little stroll down polygamy, devoting my life simultaneously to three separate partners.
Ended in tears though, all three left me... ;\)

I have always had an interest for the three-some relationship (emotional & sexual), but have never had the opportunity to realize such a situation.
(Mostly down to inbred cultural inhibitions, I presume...)

I eventually took comfort in the traditional man/woman two-some.
Would never cheat on my woman, and I do not believe she would cheat on me.
Neither of us take lightly on dishonesty.
The relationship would be ruined, and I value MY relationship with HER immensely.

If I met with an attraction that was stronger than MY feelings for MY relationship with HER, I would do the honorable thing.
End it...

But then again; can not really see that happening.
Physical & emotional attraction has come to be just two of a multitude of factors from which my "love-life" is constructed.
Age brings on practicality.

A little less love, a little more respect...
_________________________
Regards

Woland

Contra Mundum!

Top
#49379 - 02/22/11 02:57 PM On Fidelity and Satanic Mastery [Re: Opacus]
nocTifer Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 87
Loc: Khazakstan
 Originally Posted By: Opacus
...from a Satanic viewpoint, what do {y'all} think about this?

Fidelity is a matter of integrity. The immature and weak are unwilling or unable to establish a consonance between their expression/agreements, and their actions. It can be chalked up to a lack of personal insight into one's true will initially, but most who break their word more than once are unworthy of any commitment which they sought to secure. I pity or loathe them in like proportion to their willingness to betray, distancing myself from their irresponsible trail of deceived targets.

 Originally Posted By: Opacus
Ways to stop it? SHOULD we stop it? ...unchecked, this type of behavior (infidelity) starts to impinge upon my own life and that of loved ones. So what to do? ...WHY does this keep happening?

The best and most effective way to keep it from happening is to refrain from commitment, but this goes without saying. Typically these strong avowals are an endorsement of security for personal and brood-bringing purposes in a community of looseness without broadbased support for the young or old. For this reason, when I saw this reflected in my own behaviour (apparently inherited from my father's chequered and indisciplined family) I immediately set about adhering only to open relationships. It was a strong dose of maturity for me and led to my decision to obtain a vasectomy. Many others have put their fingers on the influencing factors to breaches of trust here, but primarily Morgan expressed my opinion on the matter: communication, skill at this, and sincere interest in engaging it are what prevent the problems of non-exclusivist interest. Short-sightedness and indiscipline serves to effect the rest of the damages. We should not ignore the generational hurdles of the obliteration of cultural and societal integrity due to slavery, or the blights of disease and warfare upon people.

 Originally Posted By: Opacus
Why did it NOT happen as much in the past?
In some measure it became more apparent with the breakdown of tribal culture and the artificial standards of 'nuclear families'. Religious rules against premarital sex and divorce sought to remediate. Once these softened, and technology enhanced the ability to attain deliberate reproduction (or a cessation thereof), the intelligent have begun to have fewer children. Those unused to the technology or inhibited by religion against it have been strapped with the resource expenditure of continuing to support their brood without the benefit of previous times where more child-workers secured elder generations (due to increasing work and living standards for all). Eventually universal education will become less economically-slanted toward capitalism and overcome religious ignorance, enabling the bulk of humans to live more lengthy, enjoyable lives, less focussed on genetic reproduction and moreso on artistic influence in society. During our transitional period we (and many other species displaced by our hyper-reproductive and inefficiently-consumptive activities) will suffer insofar as we don't understand what technology brings us, how to go about taking advantage of it, and are still conditioned by religious institutions instilling oldstyle operating systems suited for a previous, outmoded time.

 Originally Posted By: Opacus
...even though we ARE NOT "genetically" monogamous almost ALL {societies} had restrictions on "free love". ... EVERYONE ELSE {needs something to make them behave (apparently like morality)}. ...I kept expecting my wife to be wired like me. ...

I think you're mistaking wiring for conditioning, that human beings are capable, through proper deconditioning procedures and self-education (Black Masses!), of joining the 21st century. It helps to place oneself in the proper environment for one's deliberate pursuits. Urban centers with high density of population are far more conducive to open relationships (with proper protections), polyamory, and liberated lifestyles. Rural and insulated environs are more conducive to dedicated relationships of whatever configuration (the dyadic may seem more stable, but trust me, stability may be reached otherwise, and bisexuality increases the likelihood of such stability!).

It's true that the immature and stupid need yoking rules to follow to keep them predictable, and in dense urban environments in combination with disinhibitor ingestion such as alcohol don't be surprised if you encounter unexplainable transgressions, especially in the young. The sad aspect of this is the futile and childish response these incidents, out of jealousy and ignorance mimicking soap operas and the television simpleton characters who make them up, tend to produce. If we were raised to treat, as New Agers and enlightened hippies, technopagans, etc., have done, this as a learning experience, jealousy and simple social modules might be left behind and our species in spots might become more brilliant and full of joy.

That most of us think of these things as wiring rather than internal learned patterns we can use reconditioning methods (carefully, admittedly at times with a tentative and temporary administration of psychoactives) to transcend leads the greater number of us to behave as herds. Stratification which includes Satanism as I know it engulfs the dim in strong rulesets to protect them, alongside opportunities for self-recalibration or self-destruction dependent upon intelligence and proper application of the tools available. So while your wife may not actually be wired in this manner, her conditioning may be such, and her limitations of self-recrafting such, that expecting anything different would be ridiculous and unrealistic.

Pre-planning these things, atrociously absent in the bulk of human beings, is what is really necessary. The advantage of self-understanding makes itself plain at every level of development by our animal selves. Evaluating the predilections of, genetic likelihoods of, and contributing cultural and socioeconomic factors in any given individual is likely going to be immensely helpful in determining compatabilities of loyalty, fidelity, intimacy, and composure. Most of us are provided with heinously insufficient education in this regard, and some good starts on it are treated as prejudicial or bigoted rather than realistic (at times, depending on application, for good reason).

The intelligent (and, we hope, Satanic, but I think this is seriously idealistic and unfounded given the usual way that religion works!) will make an assessment as to what technologies for self-modification are available to them, and craft themselves and their environment (including their lovers, 'families', workmates, etc.) in a managerial and efficient manner so as to result in their overall satisfaction. Those who complain about their lives, and repeatedly do nothing about their plight, may be categorized as whiners and dependents with insufficient will and/or intelligence so as to warrant serious attention (they are of the lesser ranking). They ought to seek a master and submit to them as soon as possible, hire out as a servant to a renaissance person, etc.

The mature Master will take full responsibility for the errors which she might have made in engaging incompatible lovers, partners (business, pleasure, etc.), and make allowances for necessary changes in the relationship, including extending to other family structures, shifting to other locales, self-sterilizing, adapting to changing and unusual circumstances, etc. Some of us are simply not cut out for this level of mastery and responsibility. Expecting that everyone is so capable is unrealistic. Attempting to constrain the opportunities for this level of growth and expertise development within socioeconomic, ethnic, cultural, national, and other lines is what inevitably gets in the way of concocting a natural and functional meritocracy.
_________________________
Troll Towelhead, Grand Mufti of Satanism
http://www.facebook.com/Tr0llT0welhead
http://www.gospel-of-satan.com

Top
#49380 - 02/22/11 03:09 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Woland]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
The objective reality surrounding what is 'intimacy' is very real, if this is happening between more than two consensual adults it is only moral unnaturalness that will be causing the cognitive dissonance. In this we see that that wishful thinking/ soul mate mentality and possessiveness issues disrupt the dependent individuals ego complex. The Narcisism that society demonises is only 'healthy' in societies eyes if we are still in search for our 'other half', to 'make us whole'. We are imposed to cultivate this mental illness from a very early age, monotheist religions are behind the governments regime and the way of all things we are ingrained with by society. To look at your partner as an equal partner who is the stumulus for your intellectual and other mental requirements to stay stimulated, somebody that you are sinister with, 'partners in crime'.

Without an empathic connection you both were never really lovers and so cheating is a moral fallacy. 'Cheating' is a word that describes getting gain at an advantage beyond the 'rules' whilst hiding ones self from those bound by them. Much like the magician who seeks to influence whilst hiding his hands, what is really going on is an illusion to the recipient whilst the objective is met subversively for the magician.

It is down to ones ability to be honest with ones self when choosing a partner, is that empathic link really there or are you holding back and showing them something that is not yourself simply because you feel an infantile need for your 'other/ missing half' and will do whatever is necessary for this contentment..... the naturalistic actuality of things is always the truth. Cheating is moral fallacy for this reason as lovers are lovers and not anything less or otherwise else consigned to one another by anything but love. If one loves one does not need to formalise things. Deception to ones lover is only cheating oneself.
_________________________


Top
#59511 - 09/26/11 12:06 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Hegesias]
Red Dragon76 Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 17
Loc: Wisconsin
You're suppose to enjoy your life, feel good, have fun, be beautiful, be powerful. What in blazes is all this heartfelt gooeyness about? Nothing is permanent, you enjoy the hell out of it while it lasts. When its over, cherish the memories and move to the next thrill. There is nothing left to enjoy if its done. Unless your masochistic and want to punish yourself. Unless your a tyrant who wants to enslave her and make her love you, which is criminally ludicrous. The path is pleasure, not glutton for punishment. Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose.
_________________________
"The superior human leads by example and does not require validation within a menial pecking order."

Top
#59565 - 09/27/11 06:40 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Red Dragon76]
RAIDER Offline
member


Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 152
Loc: PA
Fidelity or infidelity......which ever benefits you more would be the better choice. Some folks have 'open' relationships, some don't. If cheating honestly makes you feel 'good'....nice, if it makes you feel like crap...that sucks.
If you're not getting what you need you're doing something wrong ( for you).
Moral gauges don't mesh well with Satanism....but accepting consequences for your actions does. If you want it...it's yours, if it comes at a price be prepared to pay.
_________________________
DARK WOLF

Top
#60269 - 10/20/11 05:20 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Pheonix666]
Vondraco Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 28
Loc: Houston, TX
 Originally Posted By: Pheonix666
 Originally Posted By: Fist
'Never love something so much that cannot stand to watch it die.'

Sorry, but that doesn't sit well with me, and I'm sure it doesn't with others. How could one love another person, and not hurt to see them die? Wouldn't a part of yourself die with them either way?

-sigh- If you love someone enough, you'd want to be with them until the end. So, why would anyone listen to such a quote in the first place?

My apologies for this. It struck a chord with me.


I think you're confusing "cannot stand" with something that does "not hurt." Certainly it hurts to part with things that have been a part of My life, perhaps for many years; but sometimes I choose to do so because it is in My own better interests and for My own benefit. Someone who "cannot stand" to do so would only be hurting themselves in the long run.
_________________________
Mathematician by training, Philosopher by nature
Genius by genetics, Hedonist by desire!

Top
#60448 - 10/26/11 02:56 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Opacus]
halfchaos Offline
temp ban
pledge


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
Take this as it may be taken; but it is really up to no one else but you to give both physical and mental pleasure or fulfillment to the person you are in a relationship with. Maybe no one can fulfill that person because that person might be a bottomless cup (I'm sure you've heard the expression), or maybe you just aren't what that person is looking for. Maybe that person is attracted to infidelity (such people do seem to exist). It could be any number of things but in all it's best not to dwell on something that doesn't matter. What will be, will be. Not everyone is built the same.

If I had to offer some important advice, I would say that it's up to you to fulfill that person if that person is indeed capable of being fulfilled. On the other hand it is also up to that person to fulfill you, and if that is not happening in your present relationship then you should likely not fret over either theirs or your own infidelity if it ever comes to that ... unless you are married in which case I hope you signed a prenup. ;\)

Top
#61129 - 11/05/11 02:00 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: RAIDER]
CyborgDreamSt8 Offline
lurker


Registered: 09/14/11
Posts: 4
I have read only the first two pages of this discussion and have come to a shocking conclusion. I don't think I am a Satanist. I have been through being cheated on, I have lived the hell of self doubt it caused for a while in me. I know how it made me feel and honestly I can't find myself agreeing with some of the stuff that has been said on the topic. I feel that when one is in a committed relationship their lover should be the only one they seek personal satisfaction from. Porn I can agree with, erotica I can agree with. Cheating, be it physical or something like cyber sex real time with other person to me seems wrong. In short I honestly have a lot to think about and I might not be back to the forum, honestly I don't think I will be.
Top
#61131 - 11/05/11 02:05 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: CyborgDreamSt8]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1751
Loc: New York
 Quote:
I have read only the first two pages of this discussion and have come to a shocking conclusion. I don't think I am a Satanist.


There is nothing wrong with that decision. I tend to agree with you, because in my opinion if one is a Satanist there is no doubt in their mind about being one, and no comments of any kind on any forum would have them question their identity as a Satanist.
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

Top
#61133 - 11/05/11 02:12 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: CyborgDreamSt8]
FemaleSatan Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 556
Loc: The Dirty South
Sounds to me like you just found an issue you need to tackle. Identifying WHY the comments on that thread bothered you, why that incident still effects you will be key in your own personal progression.

As for what other said on that thread, why should that matter? Why would that cause a crisis of faith" (for lack of a better term)?
What other people do (say) is inconsequential from my personal perspective. I got to much of my own shit to deal with.
_________________________
http://female-satan.blogspot.com


Top
#61136 - 11/05/11 02:18 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: CyborgDreamSt8]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Originally Posted By: CyborgDreamSt8
I have read only the first two pages of this discussion and have come to a shocking conclusion. I don't think I am a Satanist. I have been through being cheated on, I have lived the hell of self doubt it caused for a while in me. I know how it made me feel and honestly I can't find myself agreeing with some of the stuff that has been said on the topic. I feel that when one is in a committed relationship their lover should be the only one they seek personal satisfaction from. Porn I can agree with, erotica I can agree with. Cheating, be it physical or something like cyber sex real time with other person to me seems wrong. In short I honestly have a lot to think about and I might not be back to the forum, honestly I don't think I will be.


I am certainly a Satanist, and I do not nor have I ever cheated on a girl I was with. Shit I better go too...

No but seriously, how did these two things get tied together?
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

Top
#61137 - 11/05/11 02:23 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
They don't.

They are only linked when people are afraid to think on their own verses following what other people say.

People limit their own mind. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you have to do something because someone else does.

People need to start thinking for themselves and taking responsibility for their choices.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#61140 - 11/05/11 03:50 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Morgan]
Tallulah Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/16/11
Posts: 10
CyborgDreamSt8, you may or may not be a Satanist, but you should know that you don't have to agree with others. I especially agree with FemaleSatan and Morgan. Don't limit yourself, and know yourself as the final authority on you.
_________________________
~Tallulah~

Top
#61142 - 11/05/11 04:20 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Tallulah]
Grayson96 Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 13
Loc: Heywood, England
CyberDream So basically some other people had an opinion you didn't agree with so now you're whole belief system has been destroyed??

When you were cheated on, i'm sure it hurt. Did you make your partner cheat? Were you that in control of their mind? You may of pushed them away, you may have done everything you can to satisfy them. Either way, you will have learned something and moved forward.

To think that the path you commit to isn't right because SOME of your fellow practitioners have a different thinking is very shallow, and makes me wonder if you truly knew what you were following in the place.
_________________________
Tears fall but why am I crying
After all I'm not afraid of dying

Top
#61143 - 11/05/11 04:33 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: RAIDER]
Grayson96 Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 13
Loc: Heywood, England
Take it for what you will. I'm married with children now. I've made vows to my wife I intend to keep. Previous relationships i've had have at some point have been emotionally or physically unfulfilling so they've ended.
Infidelity is an option. I think if you have a perfect relationship in everyway, but are unfulfilled sexually then a shag buddy as such is something to consider. If that one need is serviced elsewhere and allows your relationship to flourish then so be it. As long as your not caught.

You make a commitment sometimes, however all your life you meet people who you just have a connection with emotionally or physically. You can either deprive the excitement of following the 'forbidden' path because it's 'wrong' or you can objectively look at the situation, realise what will make you happier and then make your choice.
_________________________
Tears fall but why am I crying
After all I'm not afraid of dying

Top
#61144 - 11/05/11 07:14 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Grayson96]
LeftHandonFeet Offline
member


Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 109
This is true that we meet partners in life who we are happy with and dont care for another- and though it may seem a taboo topic, the truth is that STDs are rather rampid. Some may say statistics are only aimed to scare people, but if HIV/AIDS really is that prevalent, then yes we ought to act accordingly. Condoms aside, getting tested and staying true to a good partner is very ideal. Yes I wish I could point to the origin of the epidemic and do away with it but lets be glad we do have many research specialists working on finding the cure once and for all. Even if and when the cure is available, Im most likely not going to live like I used to- that is to say wild and out of control sexually. Ive been happiest when I was with one or a few partners. I suppose this is due to my energy being more focused and on a purer plane thats more solitaire in mind and emotion. My soul feels at rest.
_________________________
"I’m just another hardline psuedo-statistic
Can you feel this?" Slipknot - The Blister Exists


Top
#61158 - 11/05/11 10:54 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: CyborgDreamSt8]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
I have read only the first two pages of this discussion and have come to a shocking conclusion. I don't think I am a Satanist.


I'm going to have to agree with you. That you aren't a Satanist, that is. Sex and relationships are a personal matter and the old saying "different strokes for different folks" most certainly applies here. A Satanist would recognize this.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#61168 - 11/06/11 04:51 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: COINTELPRO]
TV is God Moderator Offline
Moderator
member


Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 273
Loc: The Cornhole
This has a lot to do with how people see sex.

A lot of people try to believe they've stripped all the intimacy and emotion out of sex. They want to believe that the just fuck because it's fun and they're above the silly emotions tacked onto it.
That attitude is bullshit. The denial of the strong ties between sex and self-worth-- The natural desire to feel wanted. That's why people fuck. The suave motherfucker who thinks he's some hot alphamale because he can pick up a different girl every night does so to make himself feel better. Behind the whole act is most often a sad and lonely man. Most of them I've known have are guys who have never gotten over having their heart broken by some ex long ago.

Everybody wants to laugh and look down at the drunken slut who flirts with everyone and fucks strangers to make herself feel better (especially mr.alphamale fucking her) but nobody seems to notice these ladies-man types are the same thing.

Of course some guys do it because it makes them feel smarter than someone, especially if they have issues with women. Some do it to feel superior to other men. All of these behaviors are the result of feeling inadequate. Everybody knows it, nobody wants to admit it.

The point is that sex and that funny feeling for that special someone are not something forced on us by society. The pairing of love (or almost love) with sex is instinctual, natural, and CARNAL.

If you're in the position where you're breaking promises and sneaking around behind a lover's back for some action on the side you're a total dickhead. You want to fool yourself into thinking you're manipulating your world into pleasing your carnal desires (because that idea has made you feel so big and strong) but most likely you're feeling weak for one reason or you're trying to boost a weak ego.

Satanism should be about understanding and acknowledging every aspect of yourself (warts and all) and the empowering yourself through metaphor and perspective. When you skip the first part and use that metaphor and perspective as a tool of denial about yourself then you're just an arrogant idiot. Especially if you're using it as a tool to justify infidelity.

I'll be the first to tell you I've slept with very few women (this is by choice, not because I can't get laid). I'd say fucking a partner without that emotional connection is really more what you're doing when you're masturbating, not when you're having passionate sex with a lover. Better than masturbating for sure, but more a mechanical hormone release than something great. But sex with lover- THAT is amazing.

You can easily have it both ways. Have fun when you're single. Take your relationships seriously. Have amazing passionate sex with your lover. Wank to a dirty porn movie every once in a while. How can you not be content with that?

Top
#61385 - 11/14/11 11:23 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: TV is God]
Magnussa Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/10/11
Posts: 8
Loc: New York, NY, USA
I'm not a Satanist. I just don't believe in sexually exclusive relationships, personally. That's just me. I'm polyamorous, and on top of that, I feel that my sexuality is mine and mine alone. I feel that if I lust for someone/love someone, I should be able to express these feelings without someone who does not own my body complaining about it. I'm one person, therefore, one person makes my decisions. My decisions/feelings do not revolve around anyone outside of this body and mind that I occupy. If someone gets angry at the way I use my sexuality, I see them as crossing a serious line. They're only a couple of steps away from being rapists, in my book. I'm all about freedom.

@TV is God- You're right. However, I feel I have the right to seek validation in my own way. For me, being able to have sex freely with as many people as I want is not only pleasurable, but the thought remains in the back of my head, "I'm doing this because I chose to, and nobody can stop me from making this choice." It reminds me that I have power over myself. And as long as I decide to have multiple partners, I CAN have multiple partners. I'm really big on dictating all of my own decisions.

That's why I have sex OUTSIDE of my relationships. As for the people who can rightfully call themselves my lovers? I love them all to the same intensity and I have a unique relationship with each man. It is possible to love more than one person. I think sex outside of a relationship becomes a problem when there is deceit involved. If everyone I'm with knows that I have other partners, and occasionally pick up anonymous ones on the side, then I'm not being unfaithful. It doesn't go against the rules of our relationship. And if anyone grows to have a problem with it, they can leave. If they truly loved me, they'd respect where I'm coming from.

I may change one day, but honestly, I think it'd be a waste if I did. I love my freedom. I love waking up every morning to the realization that I am one person, and my desires are mine to fulfill.

This is my first post here. I really hope I don't sound like a moron.


Edited by Magnussa (11/14/11 11:27 AM)

Top
#62477 - 12/10/11 02:34 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Jake999]
kvac Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/29/11
Posts: 20
Loc: raleigh NC
lol jake999 your too funny brother. lmao plenty to go around..
_________________________
halios

Top
#62480 - 12/10/11 02:48 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: kvac]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
If you don't mind, would you please be so kind to invest a bit more effort or time in what you post.

Thanks,

D.

Top
#62517 - 12/11/11 06:30 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Latvian Offline
member


Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 475
Loc: EU, Latvia, Riga (old town)
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
I'm a one woman man, if I am in a relationship. Since I am faithful I expect my partner to be faithful as well. If this proves to be difficult for them, I kick them to the curb. It's as simple as that...
I’ve been more than 15 years in marriage with one woman and I share the same viewpoint. I live far, far away from US, but people on the earth are everywhere the same… I’m faithful to her and if she will not – I’ll stop our relationship without thinking. It’s core principle!
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
You can't stop someone from being unfaithful in a relationship; people are going to do what they want to do. All that you can do is try and find a woman or man who wants the same thing you do. And if they cheat on you then get rid of them.
It’s very smart to find out about her/him already before marriage or serious relationship, because I don’t believe that someone will be different after wedding or after some ‘holy oath’. It’s useful onot only hear on word, but involve her/him in stress or difficult situations, where aren’t time for show up and then make conclusions – is he/her real partner, who fits for You… Our days society thrives on stupidity and solipsism – people are cheap, they believe words… Every salesman, who advertises any shit can say the best word about it, but when You buy – it can be too late… You have to test, think and have your own decision, which is made on real facts and not on fantasies.
I think, sometimes people sees not real person, but person, which they want to see and after some time they have to take off their illusions.
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
I've known people to take their boyfriends or girlfriends back after being cheated ... This is ... example of stupidity.
We have always free choice and always we have to keep our pride and when we are mistreated we are angry and the best way is to fuck off someone, who cheats You! Forgiveness is stupid Christian invention. Never forgive! Never forget and You will be respected!
_________________________
In Sorte Diaboli

Top
#62524 - 12/11/11 04:31 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Magnussa]
TV is God Moderator Offline
Moderator
member


Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 273
Loc: The Cornhole
 Originally Posted By: Magnussa

@TV is God- You're right. However, I feel I have the right to seek validation in my own way. For me, being able to have sex freely with as many people as I want is not only pleasurable, but the thought remains in the back of my head, "I'm doing this because I chose to, and nobody can stop me from making this choice." It reminds me that I have power over myself. And as long as I decide to have multiple partners, I CAN have multiple partners. I'm really big on dictating all of my own decisions.


Well it certainly is your right. I wasn't trying to argue that the monogamous relationship is the one-size-fits-all model for all relationships and sex. It's infidelity that I'm talking about. Getting into a relationship on monogamous terms and sneaking around behind your partner's back and breaking those terms.
I'm also just making the point that the monogamous relationship model is the most common and I don't believe that's entirely because of ideas of morality or social norms. Again, it's not the nature of every human being, but I do believe it to be the most common one.

 Quote:

That's why I have sex OUTSIDE of my relationships. As for the people who can rightfully call themselves my lovers? I love them all to the same intensity and I have a unique relationship with each man. It is possible to love more than one person.

Not the kind of love that makes for a fulfilling relationship. The exclusivity is what defines that love.

 Quote:

This is my first post here. I really hope I don't sound like a moron.

Not at all. You said something relevant and took effort to lay it out intelligently. You know how hard that seems for some people?

Top
#62528 - 12/11/11 11:20 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: TV is God]
Praxidike Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 27
Loc: all over, but mostly here
 Quote:
I'm also just making the point that the monogamous relationship model is the most common and I don't believe that's entirely because of ideas of morality or social norms.


Why is the monogamous relationship model common then?

Couldn't it be argued that those who have cheated in a relationship are not monogamous? Wouldn't that make the truly monogamous/exclusive relationships uncommon?

@Magnussa - did you get your spiel from a website? How long have you been involved in poly/non-monogamous relationships?

Top
#62529 - 12/11/11 11:27 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Praxidike]
Tallulah Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/16/11
Posts: 10
There is prescribed morality, and there is having one's own code of ethics. Monogamy may be an idealised model, but whether someone embraces it is determined by his own psychology and perhaps ego issues. If monogamy were not an ideal, we wouldn't call abandoning it cheating.
_________________________
~Tallulah~

Top
#62530 - 12/12/11 12:22 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Tallulah]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
I'm good friends with a poly family of five adults and four children which has been a unit for around 12 years now. It seems to work well; one member died recently at the age of 65 and had been with the family from its inception.
Not all the relationships within it include "sex" in the in-out sense but they do have an erotic as well as affectionate component and at least two vectors are of the sub/domme category.
Two members are married to each other and one has adopted the others' kids.

They were on a show on poly families on UK TV recently, where Denise Robinson, an agony aunt was rolling her eyes and sighing that this sort of thing would "never last". I think she was cut up short by 13 years until death; that's longer than a lot of "normal" people stay together here.

I've been a third party to a non-monogamous friends' relationship. I'd known them for 14 years, they'd been together for 12 - now 24 - years and it just happened to suit all of us at the time. Then they decided to make babies in middle-age and I scarpered. ;\)

_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#62535 - 12/12/11 03:27 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: felixgarnet]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
With traditional relationships failing at 50% and rising, it seems to me that any relationship that lasts has merit. And really... if you want to stay with one person all of your life, it's none of my business. If I want to have two or four or more, it's none of yours.

The world isn't one size fits all... neither are people.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


Top
#62536 - 12/12/11 03:29 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: felixgarnet]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: felixgarnet

I've been a third party to a non-monogamous friends' relationship. I'd known them for 14 years, they'd been together for 12 - now 24 - years and it just happened to suit all of us at the time. Then they decided to make babies in middle-age and I scarpered. ;\)



Yeah... you never know what you'll find yourself involved in, or with whom. It's all good and fair between two or more consenting adults... as long as the goats don't complain, nobody's gonna care.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


Top
#62537 - 12/12/11 03:41 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Jake999]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
Oh, the goats only complained when we threatened to eat them. ;\)

I am now an engaged person and both of us are monogamous with each other. We DO say if we find someone attractive, though and have a chuckle about it! Geesh, anyone that's not grown-up enough to deal with that shouldn't really be in a relationship at all, in my not-so-humble opinion. Lack of shared humour is the biggest romance killer.
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#63132 - 12/30/11 02:36 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: felixgarnet]
Latvian Offline
member


Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 475
Loc: EU, Latvia, Riga (old town)
 Originally Posted By: felixgarnet
...I am now an engaged person and both of us are monogamous with each other...
... and what You wrote is very serious and good advice for everyone!

I and my wife are faithful to each other and monogamous too! We know each other 16 years and are married more than 15 years!

Sometimes I wonder about reality… We, Satanists accept – everyone right to get married, live together, divorce, express all possible sexual fantasies, if partner agree…

We don’t judge pornography, homosexuals, transvestites, polygamists etc…

Christians preach and straggle to death about purity and ‘holy’marrige, but in my country, even in all 3 Baltic States, Christians and many RHP freaks or serious religious people divorce much more than atheists and much, much more than Satanists and LHP followers.
_________________________
In Sorte Diaboli

Top
#63135 - 12/30/11 04:32 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Latvian]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Quote:
Sometimes I wonder about reality… We, Satanists accept – everyone right to get married, live together, divorce, express all possible sexual fantasies, if partner agree…

We don’t judge pornography, homosexuals, transvestites, polygamists etc…

Drop the "we" please.
I have my own ideas when it comes down to transvestites and divorcing, marriage and expression of sexual fantasies.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#63136 - 12/30/11 06:37 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Latvian]
TV is God Moderator Offline
Moderator
member


Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 273
Loc: The Cornhole
Don't mind old Dimitri, he lost half his stuff when he divorced that transvestite. ;\)


Really all I'm saying is I believe the standard model of relationship being monogamous is more a product of nature than society. I'm certainly not saying this is the 'true way' I want all of you to see, that it's what's right and best for everyone, ect. And I'm certainly not denying the face that people who naturally don't desire that kind of relationship aren't fooled into thinking they do by society. I'm just saying when you're mindset is counter-cultural that effect can work both ways.

People who are monogamous by nature are often in denial for a lot of different reasons. The most common seem to be either a desire to be not the norm or a coping mechanism for being unsuccessful at getting what they really want (I've met quite a few guys like this)
Am I saying this is the majority? I have no idea. Maybe, maybe not. I have no way to know. Probably not?


Edited by TV is God (12/30/11 06:37 AM)

Top
#63137 - 12/30/11 07:24 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Opacus]
Zach_Black Offline
member


Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 541
Loc: San Diego, California
My take on it is this. Honesty. If you want to have an open relationship , tell your partner. There is no need to lie and cheat. Be strait about it.

I personally am not a jealous person. So long as it is not waved in my face and my partner is up front about it .

But, I hate cheaters and liars. Put down the ground rules up front.
_________________________
http://satanicinternationalnetwork.com/

Top
#63138 - 12/30/11 07:33 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Dimitri]
Zach_Black Offline
member


Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 541
Loc: San Diego, California
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
 Quote:
Sometimes I wonder about reality… We, Satanists accept – everyone right to get married, live together, divorce, express all possible sexual fantasies, if partner agree…

We don’t judge pornography, homosexuals, transvestites, polygamists etc…

Drop the "we" please.
I have my own ideas when it comes down to transvestites and divorcing, marriage and expression of sexual fantasies.


I second Dimitri motion. Drop the 'we'. I am not you . And you are not me. So there is no room for 'we' .

Shit that rhymes ! Fuck I missed my calling in life. I coulda been the real slim shady!

Boo-ba-boo-baboo-baa will they real Satanist please stand up , please stand up !

Well I'm the real Satanist ,and won't you other theist please stand up ,please stand up ...

( Ok I am done before I get booted outta here )
_________________________
http://satanicinternationalnetwork.com/

Top
#63142 - 12/30/11 09:48 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: TV is God]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Quote:
Don't mind old Dimitri, he lost half his stuff when he divorced that transvestite.

Yeah, I am still pissed you ran away with the TV..


Edited by Dimitri (12/30/11 09:49 AM)
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#63145 - 12/30/11 11:09 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Dimitri]
Latvian Offline
member


Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 475
Loc: EU, Latvia, Riga (old town)
 Originally Posted By: TV is God
... Really all I'm saying is I believe the standard model of relationship being monogamous is more a product of nature than society...
In reality I have the same opinion and my lifestyle shows it too! I monogamous and it fits for survival of fitest.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Drop the "we" please. I have my own ideas when it comes down to transvestites and divorcing, marriage and expression of sexual fantasies.

All right – ‘we’ isn’t correct. Actually I cannot speak about everybody!

I’m old fashioned and in my personal relationship I don’t have such people, but if they do it in private – it doesn’t bother me – I don’t care! They can do what they want and like vegans die a bit earlier and care that earth isn’t overpopulated.
_________________________
In Sorte Diaboli

Top
#63247 - 01/02/12 02:31 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Zach_Black]
Latvian Offline
member


Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 475
Loc: EU, Latvia, Riga (old town)
 Originally Posted By: blackzach
...I hate cheaters and liars. Put down the ground rules up front...
Good attitude – never forgive and never forgot!

Some years back (prior 2004) - I was filled too with hate for cheating and lying. I’m happy, that it didn’t happen in my marriage…, but in similar way I experienced cheating and infidelity. Deceitful, two-faced and fucking dishonest Christianity filled me with real disgust and hatred for quite long time, even some years. I was in this mess for some years and I got there, because I was young and inexperienced and I didn’t trust on me, I wanted to make better world... and I thought – Jesus is the way! Of course soon I lost my illusions about beautiful Christianity and about religions in general, but I felt so bad about spent time and leaders, who brainwashed so many people and of course me too… and hate helped me – I cursed them, I blaspheme God and all his servants and now I have peace in my mind and who knows me, know as friendly man. Christian invented God, even in his scriptures is unfaithful and cheats everyone. I sacrilege and scorn him for it! I understand men and women, whose partners are unfaithful – they have the same feelings.

Of course this is only my opinion and I don’t pretend that all Satanists have the same hate!
_________________________
In Sorte Diaboli

Top
#63479 - 01/08/12 11:21 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Opacus]
kvac Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/29/11
Posts: 20
Loc: raleigh NC
personal and sociaties standards.


Last warning, I believeyou have been banned before for this kind of thing. Morgan


Edited by Morgan (01/09/12 12:08 AM)
Edit Reason: final warning
_________________________
halios

Top
#63480 - 01/08/12 11:58 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: kvac]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
kvac - either you posted one line (which is meaningless due to a lack of coherent grammatical structure), despite being told repeatedly that this is not acceptable - or there has been an error during submission of this post.
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#70430 - 08/20/12 05:09 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: felixgarnet]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
When you enter into a relationship, you have to maintain trust for it to work. If sexual fidelity is part of the agreement, be faithful. If you seek additional carnal pleasures: agree to an open relationship (albeit they've never worked for me) or simply end the relationship. I'm lucky to be in a relationship based on trust, mutual respect, and fidelity. If we lost any of those elements, it would be over. Think before you act.
_________________________
Apres Moi ... Le Deluge

Top
#73205 - 11/26/12 02:18 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Opacus]
Dagusu Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/02/10
Posts: 10
Loc: Nuevo León, México

The human being is not monogamous by nature, the whole relationship thing is what the sociologists call "a social construction" (I'm not sure if that's the proper english term, my native language is spanish) for that reason some people find it hard to be loyal to one person but it's not impossible and I think if you have a commitment (a REAL commitment) with someone then you should respect that.

I'm not saying I'm against open relationships but I think that's something that must be clear from the beggining to avoid future conflicts, it's all about personal choice and how you want to handle the whole thing and for me the only valid "infidelity" it's when both parts agree to see other people while being together.

Top
#73222 - 11/26/12 07:07 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Dagusu]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
member


Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
Quite honestly, if I ever found out that Wicked was in between the sheets with some other woman after all the bullshit that we had been through over the past five years, I'd probably attempt to kill him. Or be tempted to try to get him to do the favor for me.

(Can you tell I have a giant jealousy problem?)

I have had problems in the past with unfaithful boyfriends. My daughter's father taking off with random girls when I was pregnant probably being the root cause of my little green monster. I take an immense amount of care with what I do and say when it comes to the health of my relationship and the last thing I want/need to hear about is a lack of equality on my partner's side.
_________________________
I am a ghost.x
http://othermindx.blogspot.com

Top
#73225 - 11/26/12 08:17 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Dagusu]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: Dagusu

The human being is not monogamous by nature, the whole relationship thing is what the sociologists call "a social construction" (I'm not sure if that's the proper english term, my native language is spanish) for that reason some people find it hard to be loyal to one person but it's not impossible and I think if you have a commitment (a REAL commitment) with someone then you should respect that.


NEVER presume to speak for others. Some human beings ARE, indeed, monogamous.
_________________________
Dead and gone. Syonara.

Top
#73248 - 11/27/12 04:59 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Fnord]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
Fidelity is all-encompassing to me. It's my word.

And here's the bottom line: If I promise to show up at 0630 to give you a ride to work, I'll be there, whether I'm half asleep, hungover, or I broke my arm on the way to the car and have to drop you off on the way to the hospital.

The word "fidelity" has a definition that doesn't stop at sexuality. It means loyalty, period. Loyalty to a cause, a person, an idea...it means keeping your word. And very few people can get by without having a solid word.

And this - I believe - is the root of the sexual fidelity problem: To me, it appears that each new generation is held less and less accountable for their bullshit. They get away with being late, being rude, disregarding commitments of time, and all kinds of shit. I broke up with a guy once because he would constantly tell his family members that he'd show up on X date at X time to visit, and then blow them off. Well hell! If you can't even be bothered to keep your word on a visit with your family, then how can you be trusted to keep your word on anything?

When you enter into an exclusive relationship with someone, whether it's dating exclusively, or living together, or marriage, you are giving your word that you're not going to take your pants off for anyone but that person, among other things. It's a heavy level of responsibility that cannot be undertaken by people who are used to doing what they want without being held accountable for the outcome of their decisions.

It's your word, just like agreeing to visit your family next Saturday or giving your neighbor a ride to work on your day off, or even just saying that you're going to quit smoking.

So it has been spoken, so it shall be written.

If you say you're going to do it, and you wind up being full of shit, then after this happens a few times, you're going to be full of shit no matter what you do, in the eyes of everyone around you. And they WILL NOTICE. People may not say that they notice, but they will. If you blow people off on the small things, they wont trust you for the big things. If you only give the least expected energy to something you have committed to, that, too, will be noticed.

As for the above-referenced monogamous (exclusive) relationship: If someone just "isn't cut out for it" or doesn't want to be with that person anymore, they need to end the relationship before moving on. That's all there is to it and again, it's a self-respect thing. Sneaking around in the shadows is for rats and thieves. Have more dignity than that.

And these days, people try to hedge their bets by being in "open relationships". Good luck with that. I've only seen it work once out of many many many instances.

I think that Dag, or perhaps the sociologists that are being referred to, are highly mistaken. I think that there is no default nature on monogamy. I think that either a person puts a value on their own word and their relationship, or they don't. If they make the promise to "be faithful", then only the weak will fail, because a person who is committed to the relationship will never purposefully put themselves in a situation that would lead to cheating in the first place, and in the second place, would easily turn down an offer should it happen along.

I know a guy who got iced out by his wife and never cheated. I know a girl whose husband lost the use of half his body in a wreck. She never cheated. Either you honor your word or you don't. It's your decision. If you decide that you no longer want to honor your word on whatever level it was given, then you need to be honest about THAT and do things the right way.

There's no excuse. My husband had his back broken three months after we married and it took over a year for him to recover all the necessary functions that a spine controls. But we were committed to our relationship, and we did what we could do to help the other person along the way. And the reason is simple: because when we got married, we promised each other we would.

And yeah, it's that damned simple. Either your word has a value and you value your word or it/you doesn't/don't. I think that THAT is key to fidelity. And when two people feel the same way, then they make an unstoppable team because they are interested in the betterment of the other person as much as they are themselves. You can't be selfish and be in a relationship any more than you can be selfish and be a parent...or even own a pet or a have a garden. I think the part where "Satanists" fuck up is where they say, "I'm a Satanist so I'm entitled to disregard whatever in the hell I want to disregard because Satanism is all about ME and what I want." Nope. You're a Satanist so you acknowledge that you are responsible for the things that you say and do and you hold yourself to a higher level of accountability. If you can't keep your pants on then avoid the problem by never entering into a relationship in which you are expected to. Again, it's that simple.

And if you find yourself constantly in this situation (where you cannot keep your pants on but are expected to), then either admit and embrace your weakness so that you cease entering into monogamous relationships, or stop being weak and step up to the fucking plate. So damned simple.

Top
#73249 - 11/27/12 05:48 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: ceruleansteel]
Tallulah Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/16/11
Posts: 10
I completely agree, ceruleansteel. And I'm reminded of something I heard a lot when growing up, when the adults would be talking about others who were full of shit - ¡allá ellos! meaning "it's their business, and nothing we need to be concerned about." The people involved need to be on the same page, else I don't see how a relationship can work.
_________________________
~Tallulah~

Top
#73364 - 11/30/12 11:43 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Tallulah]
Happy Birthday Pynkii Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/21/12
Posts: 25
I believe that if you are going to go in to a relationship with another person it is important above all else that you are both able to be honest with yourselves and each other about what you want and expect. If in the past you've been a "cheater" then it would benefit you greatly to be open with your partner about your flipsy sexual whims, and if they can't accept that, then move on, because you will otherwise be dubbed a "cheater" and find yourself living secretively doing something that is simply in your nature.

I don't think promiscuity is a bad thing, but if your partner expects you to be faithful and you simply cannot be, this winds up being painful for all involved.

I've dealt with this too much, just throwing my two cents. Honesty in this regard is simply the best policy, and hurting a lover sucks.
_________________________
As if you could kill time without injuring eternity

Top
#73407 - 12/01/12 06:55 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Pynkii]
Doctor Demon Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/09/12
Posts: 14
Loc: Washington, DC
On the natural promiscuity of the human race, people reading this thread might want to check out the book, "Sex at Dawn" which makes a pretty convincing case that we are not naturally monogamous and that monogamy is largely socially constructed.

Not that it matters. What matters is what people in a relationship have AGREED TO in terms of exclusivity. An oath-breaker / liar is a turd whether they wear a baphomet or a cross. I can say, I've been one and am not proud of it.

In recent years, however, I've come to value the wisdom in books like "The Ethical Slut" and "Opening Up" and "Open" as well as various books on Polyamory. The point of all of these books is that, if total monogamy is honestly not your thing, that can still work but you simply need to negotiate that out with your partner. Here is the applicability to Satanism: While the xtian herd take monogamy as the unchanging condition of humanity, the Satanist is able to think beyond such strictures, not to "cheating is OK" but rather, perhaps "I can re-negotiate my relationship" (or start a new one) which is open to the idea of some degree of variance from strict monogamy. Even a traditional marriage based on monogamy can be "renegotiated" to allow one or both partners to occasionally date etc subject to whatever limitations both agree to. Open and honest communication can take things a LONG way.
_________________________
---------
Doctor Demon



Top
#73410 - 12/01/12 08:54 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Doctor Demon]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
I'm not so sure that what you just said isn't a cop-out. If my husband attempted to "renegotiate" our marriage, he'd probably find himself in divorce court for the simple fact that, if you agree on something, understanding what you're getting into, and then change your mind later, you were probably never in agreement in the first place. They have a legal term for this: breach of contract.

I really don't care how many books out there try to suggest that humans are not "naturally monogamous". I will continue believing that there are some that are and some that aren't and the problems arise when there is not honesty from the outset.

You either are or you are not. Attempting to "renegotiate" means that you are not. If you think there's such a conversation in the future of a relationship, then don't try to sugar coat anything. You're still an ass if you are not upfront about the possibility because you are leading the other person in one direction and then changing in mid-stream.

You value the books that you do because they legitimize what you want for yourself. They validate your own personality. It's as simple as that. Attempting to use them to convince a critical observer that, simply because those books validate you, they are applicable to the rest of the human animal is either arrogant or a brilliant show of your own insecurity.

And I also noted your attempt to bring distaste to the idea of monogamy by painting it as a purely Christian concept, and insinuating that the discriminating Satanist would avoid such religious pandering. Whereas I submit that the Satanist would (again), be honest about themselves and seek a relationship that fit their needs.

Because once you bring that topic up, there's no closing the door on it if it's rejected. That trust from the partner will never be as it once was and if they are not comfortable with your proposed arrangement, you may as well end the relationship then because it's a slippery slope from there.

.


Edited by ceruleansteel (12/01/12 08:55 PM)

Top
#73418 - 12/02/12 12:48 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: ceruleansteel]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1146
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
I'm not so sure that what you just said isn't a cop-out. If my husband attempted to "renegotiate" our marriage, he'd probably find himself in divorce court for the simple fact that, if you agree on something, understanding what you're getting into, and then change your mind later, you were probably never in agreement in the first place. They have a legal term for this: breach of contract.

Actually, a breach would be simply cheating without attempting to renegotiate or in spite of refused renegotiation. Contracts are renegotiated all the time: accord and satisfaction, novation, mutual rescission, and modification. None of these are considered a breach. It's only a breach if the other party does not consent.

 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
...the problems arise when there is not honesty from the outset...Attempting to "renegotiate" means that you are not.

Sometimes there is honesty from the outset, but something comes to light later of which neither was initially aware (in contracts, mutual mistake) or something happens that neither was expecting (in contracts, frustration of purpose). The husband expected his wife to stay home with the children, and she expected to be able to work, and neither realized the other's expectation. The wife's libido dies off several years into the relationship, and the husband promised fidelity on the understanding that he'd be getting regular action from his wife. Or the husband expected his wife to conceive, and discovered only later (unbeknownst to her) that she was barren.

Your relationship contract seems to be based on the notion of "for better of for worse," what in contracts is known as a hell or high water clause. It's a noble notion, but not every relationship is based on such an understanding. If all relationships were so committed by default, we'd all stick with our first boyfriend or girlfriend for life, and very few people do. Most relationships start out as tentative, and become so committed later, if at all.

The reason many people try to wriggle out of the agreements they make, in my mind, is because many make them too rashly in the first place. Intoxicated by infatuation, they rush to commit on the basis of something transient. To me, the take-home message is take serious commitments seriously. People should know exactly to what and to whom they are committing; read the fine print before signing.
_________________________
Wir halten uns an Regeln, Wenn man uns regeln lässt

Top
#73423 - 12/02/12 03:36 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: XiaoGui17]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17
 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
I'm not so sure that what you just said isn't a cop-out. If my husband attempted to "renegotiate" our marriage, he'd probably find himself in divorce court for the simple fact that, if you agree on something, understanding what you're getting into, and then change your mind later, you were probably never in agreement in the first place. They have a legal term for this: breach of contract.

Actually, blah blah blah.


Kudos to you for once again starting off with the absolute least important issue in a post! I guess you really needed that clarification? I'm pretty sure that you know that I'm aware of the literal definition of "breach of contract", and I'm also sure that if you would have allowed it to remain in context instead of pulling it out, that you would have lost the ability to cry "AHA!" and hold it up like it's a turd in your oatmeal.

But it's okay. I don't mind if you begin your post with an arrogant attempt at being superior to me. After all these years, I still take it as flattery, even if it is simply you trying to be smug at my expense ;\)

I have a theory about people who begin a reply with the word, "Actually"...

 Quote:
but not every relationship is based on such an understanding.


No fucking shit, Einstein. However, the relationships that I have been talking about are the ones where at least one party is under the impression that this is the case. I find it very difficult to believe that said party can get that idea all by themselves. I'm pretty sure that, should they receive conflicting information from the other party, they will fail to come to the aforementioned impression.

 Quote:
The reason many people try to wriggle out of the agreements they make, in my mind, is because many make them too rashly in the first place.


A sure sign of immaturity and ignorance...However, not an excuse. You can actually tie this back into what I said waaaaaaaaaay up the thread and say that the reason people make rash decisions is because they have spent a lifetime being allowed to do what they like while mom and dad or whomever continue to bail them out, make excuses, and basically fail to hold them accountable.

You're liberal, aren't you?

 Quote:
To me, the take-home message is take serious commitments seriously


And what type of commitments are not serious/can be blown off? Any time I commit to something, I'm serious about it. I always thought that to be the difference between "committing" and "considering". Unless you have another English or Business Law lesson for me, I'd like to know what commitments are - to you - not important.

As for all of your illustrations in paragraph two:

Don't give a fuck. If these things are important to a person, they need to be addressed at some point before the proverbial knot is tied.

I stand by my previous statements. There is NO excuse for cheating.

~~~~~
~~~~~

Furthermore, it's all really neither here nor there because the person I was replying to was not citing renegotiation due to extenuating circumstances, such as barrenness. He was saying renegotiate to be able to put his pee pee into unauthorized territory for the hell of it.

Did you even read what I was replying to, or did you simply ASSume that you had an opportunity to get me on a technicality?

You bore me, Xiao. All these years later and you still bore me.


.

Top
#73429 - 12/02/12 08:52 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: ceruleansteel]
Strychnine Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/25/12
Posts: 47
Loc: Italy
The issue: "is man monogamous or not?" has puzzled and continues to puzzle anthropologists and ethologists from about 50 years. Every two, three years a study is published to uphold one theory or the other, showing how that African tribe lives in peaceful polygamy or how the main part of human communities are based on monogamy.
The point is that if you are looking for a scientific study that supports your life-style you have just to choose.

The more recent theories are going towards a flexible integration of the above (in medio stat virtus, isn't it? ;\) ) : man is a temporary monogamous. Man (or woman) tends to establish exclusive relationships that can last from some week to many years, but not necessarily for all their life. From an ethological point of view we aren't like the strictly monogamous wild duck, that has one mate for all his life even thought this dies early (was Lorenz that described the "widow" wild duck who spent the rest of his life in the nearby of a french window, because he recognized his mate in the glass reflect?), but we are neither like the "sex with anyone/every time/everywhere" bonobo.

I don't see anyone of you astonished by this shocking revelation. The fact is, I think, that it isn't; they just found a way to describe what we have before our eyes everyday, how homo sapiens works, in an enough flexible way to reflect all our variability.

This for the anthropological and/or ethological debate. But the issue doesn't ends there, does it? We have a huge individual variability, that depends on our cultural and social background, our personal experiences, etc. that heavily influence our relational and sexual behaviour.
Moreover we have choice and will. I can desire hundreds men, I can feel a temporary attraction towards someone, but in the end I can always choose to take off my pants just with my partner.

Ethological theories are a valid explanation, in my opinion, not a justification.

When we start a relationship we define together the terms of that relation, its boundaries, expressly or not. I think those terms should be respected by the two until they find them suitable for both. The problem here is that people change. I'm not exactly the same person I was when I was twenty and I won't be the same when I will be fifty.
A person can have sincerely agreed to strictly monogamous terms when the relation started because in that period it was what he truly wanted, but after 10 years he can find out that said condition isn't anymore suitable for him. The honesty of that person lies in what he does then: he can break the terms out of sight and cheat the partner or he can risk proposing a renegotiation of the conditions. If the other doesn't agree with the new terms proposed the relation ends, period.
It is just a matter of taking the responsibility what you want to do and the consequences of what you actually do.
_________________________
se fossi, se avessi, se potessi erano tre fessi.

Top
#73434 - 12/02/12 10:40 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Doctor Demon]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
member


Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
 Quote:
While the xtian herd take monogamy as the unchanging condition of humanity, the Satanist is able to think beyond such strictures, not to "cheating is OK" but rather, perhaps "I can re-negotiate my relationship" (or start a new one) which is open to the idea of some degree of variance from strict monogamy. Even a traditional marriage based on monogamy can be "renegotiated" to allow one or both partners to occasionally date etc subject to whatever limitations both agree to. Open and honest communication can take things a LONG way.


Some Christians, and I know this as a fact, have no problem with having multiple partners at one time or not being in a one on one relationship. I am not of Christian background but I can honestly say this.. There would only be ONE renegotiation applied to my relationship if my boyfriend was to attempt to change the "rules" and that would be me walking out that door. He knows it, I know it and that's just how it is.

Furthermore, if we were to get married, there is no way in frozen over hell that I would even attempt to consider allowing something like that into our relationship. Marriage is between TWO people.. not two people and whomever else my husband wants to invite into our bed. I agree that open communication is a must in every relationship but straying outside of the relationship would never be something that needed to be communicated. Period.
_________________________
I am a ghost.x
http://othermindx.blogspot.com

Top
#73439 - 12/02/12 11:12 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Did I wander on to christianforums by mistake? I could cut the moralizing douchbaggery in here with a knife.

No excuse for cheating. Unless of course, you believe in self ownership, total freedom, and don't give a shit about moral convention. A good example might be..I dunno..a Satanist?

Personally I have been monogamous for 12 years now, by choice not because it was more 'right', but this one size fits all prescriptive morality nonsense(lookin' at you CS) is making me choke on the taste of my own bile.
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

Top
#73441 - 12/02/12 11:22 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: ceruleansteel]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
[Quick reply]
Infidelity is not really admirable. Not going to say bad for the reason it can give fruitation to something better.

Sometimes shit just happens. Something new comes along and things start rushing out of control. It can happen you end up smooching that hot chick/guy you met and/or have been a little (more) naughty. In the heat of the moment you cannot always be fully 100% hogtied to the other. Sometimes the adventure is too great and the flesh way too weak.

I am on the same line with CS regarding commitment to a cause. Experience, however, tells me its more ideological seeing a slip can always occur. But on that point, and if truly committed, it's decent behavior to be upfront about it and carrying/facing possible consequences.


Edited by Dimitri (12/02/12 11:23 AM)
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#73449 - 12/02/12 01:42 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Opacus]
Cassandra Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/07/11
Posts: 83
Loc: Temple, Texas
I have to say to the OP, why would other people's infidelity bother you? And I said WTF--

"I'm concerned that this constant infidelity is going to lead to econmic disaster eventually."

--to that statement. I suppose if you look at the tiny details of such situations without looking at the entire picture, one could fool themselves into believing infidelity could lead to...economic disaster. But that is nitpicking.

Quite frankly, it is other people's business if someone gets cheated on. I personally don't give a rat's ass if someone got 'wronged' by their partner. That is their problem. Especially if you don't know the dynamics of their personal situation--you never know--maybe it was their own fault that it happened (but I know a lot of the times, that is not the case).

Of course 'cheating' has always been around. I wouldn't be surprised if it happened more in the past than it does now. It is easy to say that it is in man's animalistic nature, but I don't think that is entirely true. There is a large, general portion of the human population that are more inclined to be monogamous. Granted, most of that population is probably composed mainly of the ladies, but even if it goes against the true nature of the male--I know there are a lot of men that prefer to be monogamous, also. I suppose it boils down to the stress level in one's life, whether they are with someone they truly love/care about, and a bunch of other various factors.

I personally would (probably) never have the desire to have more than one mate at a time. This is my personal preference. Quite frankly, if there is infidelity issues, I would think most of it would stem from communication issues within the relationship, but I might be wrong about that.

Top
#73453 - 12/02/12 03:09 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Cassandra]
Happy Birthday Pynkii Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/21/12
Posts: 25
In my opinion if your partner wants to "re-negotiate" and you aren't having any of it, that's great for you! But it isn't fair to try to shove your monogamy down anothers throat, either. If a person is poly amorous by nature, well we simply can't help that and will end up quietly loathing you over time, and probably "cheating" as well. Food for thought.

To Dmitri- to the truly monogamous people I have met, there is no such thing whatsoever as a slip up. You either are, or you aren't, either way is fine but you can't hide from your nature. I would just beg to differ that "owning up" isn't the most important course of action in the scenario you're describing, but rather self-evaluation and getting in tune with whether or not your "monogamous" partner is really satisfying your needs.

To say again, the idea of "cheating" only truly stems from a monogamous person and a polyamorous person coming in to a relationship. This begs the question, can a polyamorous person remain monogamous??


Edited by Pynkii (12/02/12 03:10 PM)
_________________________
As if you could kill time without injuring eternity

Top
#73486 - 12/02/12 06:59 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Pynkii]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
General reply:

I don't recall saying that monogamy is right and polygamy, et. al, is wrong. I DID however, say that if you are not a monogamous person, and you want to get with someone who IS a monogamous person, you need to be upfront about it. "Cheating" as used in my posts, refers to sneaking around behind the back of your spouse/partner who believes the two of you are exclusive. It does NOT refer to one half of an open relationship.

Whatever two people decide is fine in their relationship is between them. I'm not here talking about people who go into a relationship knowing that monogamy is not on the table. If you know you can't handle monogamy but enter into a relationship with someone who believes it's going to be exclusive then there's a very limited number of adjectives and outcomes for the situation.

As for this:

 Quote:
Personally I have been monogamous for 12 years now, by choice not because it was more 'right', but this one size fits all prescriptive morality nonsense(lookin' at you CS) is making me choke on the taste of my own bile.


Although I've never prescribed any sort of morality for anyone, if my words make you choke then either stop reading them, or have a buddy with you when you do. You know, for safety.

And this:

 Quote:
No excuse for cheating. Unless of course, you believe in self ownership, total freedom, and don't give a shit about moral convention. A good example might be..I dunno..a Satanist?


Bullshit. I own myself and my life. I am freer than most and believe in same. And I could care less what the average guy on the street thinks about morality. HOWEVER, that doesn't give me the right to shit on my husband/partner. That doesn't give me the right to bullshit him and allow him to believe one thing while I'm living another. That's not Satanism, that's just being an asshole.

Every time someone attempts to justify being a dick to someone who doesn't deserve it by throwing the Satanism flag...

It's just a cop-out. I can't believe that I'm this close to speechless.


.

Top
#73499 - 12/03/12 03:39 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Pynkii]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Quote:
To Dmitri- to the truly monogamous people I have met, there is no such thing whatsoever as a slip up. You either are, or you aren't, either way is fine but you can't hide from your nature.

Ever visited the outside world? You know.. real life?
Such things can occur when hormons are rushing and there's a bit too much alcohol. Truly monogamous people I know are people whose sexuality has been cut out. People who start doing everything together as if their individuality somehow vanished.

I'm inclined to believe people are monogamous when they have a "fit" partner. Tasting the rainbow, however, happens a lot more as inclined to think (as it should be). Even within any monogamous relationship. It doesn't need to be a fuckfest for that matter.


Edited by Dimitri (12/03/12 03:53 AM)
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#73514 - 12/03/12 09:03 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Dimitri]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
 Quote:
Truly monogamous people I know are people whose sexuality has been cut out. People who start doing everything together as if their individuality somehow vanished.


I can only wonder what people you are being exposed to.

Perhaps these people do everything together because they truly enjoy the other person's company. That's usually a phase of relationships, referred to here (in America) as the "honeymoon phase," where the couple can't seem to get enough of the other person.

My husband and I do almost everything together. Our reason is just as I stated: we truly enjoy the company of the other person. Of course, our situation is a bit unique to the majority of people who log in here.

And our personal life is very much alive and well, "after all these years."

 Quote:
I'm inclined to believe people are monogamous when they have a "fit" partner.


Maybe that's it, then. We're "fit". I'll agree to that. I think we are a very good match indeed. But this statement coming from you is a bit of a contradiction from your previous statement.


I think that people who don't have enough going on in their life create drama and cause trouble for themselves. Perhaps that's where we succeed. We work our asses off every day and have plenty waiting for us at the next sunrise. And because we've created a life that we love, we can jump right in each morning.

We enjoy this, and feel truly productive every day because everything we do directly benefits us, instead of living in a circle. Not to say there's no frustration in our lives, and not to say that everything is fanfuckingtastic all the time and we always get along, but a side effect of how we live is that we don't have time for causing too much trouble...and a side-effect of our personalities is that - because we enjoy each other's company and are not insecure about our relationship - we are bonding/renewing the bond every day. We don't have to make a plan for "date night" or whatever.

There are plenty of people who are monogamous and feel that their life is fulfilled and productive. Many people HERE are monogamous and happy. For some people, it works. And just because you don't see or hear that they are having sex does not mean that their "sexuality has been cut out".

Most animals have a very predictable array of actions and reactions, but the human animal is not one of them. The bane of psychologists and sociologists everywhere is this very fact. You can hypothesize all you like, but your theory will never fit every person on earth and odds are good that it wont fit half of them. That's just the nature of humanity.


.

Top
#73519 - 12/03/12 10:00 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: ceruleansteel]
FemaleSatan Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 556
Loc: The Dirty South
General Reply:

I have been cheated on, been the cheater, and have been married for 11 years.

Every time cheating happened, it had nothing to do with sex. It had to do with dissatisfaction in the relationship. Typically it was not the issue itself but the manifestation of another problem. Perhaps, if I had realized there were larger issues, I would have been saved or saved someone else a lot of heartache.

The worst was a guy in high-school. He was gay (now transgendered), not out and had a boyfriend while he dated me. I was so devastated. It's a good example, a larger issue was at play.

It's not cheating if you're in an open relationship and/or single. If someone engages in a monogamous relationship it's most likely by choice, not because they are sexually 'cut off'.
_________________________
http://female-satan.blogspot.com


Top
#73526 - 12/03/12 10:22 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: FemaleSatan]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
member


Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
I agree in the lacking of something there. I'm not going to say I have only been on the "cheated on" side of things. I've done my fair share of running around when I was much younger. I didn't really attribute that to something that was lacking the particular relationship I am talking about until I got older. Giving it some thought, I wasn't happy and tried anything and everything to be happy.

In the long run, it didn't do anything for that goal but here I am in a relationship I'm comfortable in and with the person right for me.. so I guess maybe I'm wrong. In the long run, it DID do something for me. It just took a lot longer than I wanted it to.
_________________________
I am a ghost.x
http://othermindx.blogspot.com

Top
#73527 - 12/03/12 10:30 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: FemaleSatan]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
 Quote:
Every time cheating happened, it had nothing to do with sex. It had to do with dissatisfaction in the relationship. Typically it was not the issue itself but the manifestation of another problem.


This has been my observation as well, that sex usually has nothing to do with the seeking of sex outside of what is thought to be an exclusive relationship. The desire to have sex with another person, I have observed, is usually rooted in lack of *emotional* closeness with one's partner, which leaves the question of whether or not the grass truly is greener somewhere else. Frustration with the relationship (for example, the partner is not dependable, or is emotionally dismissive), can make a person start gazing over the fence as well.

 Quote:
He was gay (now transgendered), not out and had a boyfriend


I went to school with a girl whose dad "came out" when his third child was about 12 years old. It was devastating to the entire family.

And that is really the reason why I rally against things the way I do. Being an asshole for it's own sake, being selfish to the point of shitting on people who do not deserve it...three kids in that marriage got fucked up for life, and his wife turned into a fanatically religious nutbag because the only way she could deal with it was to grab onto god.

There's no call for that.

It's one thing to be ruthless in a corporate setting. Hell, in that setting, it's not only acceptable, but expected. But the average person living the average life in the average city is just trying to find a companion and have a little happiness in their life, and I think it's deplorable to take a shit on that if they aren't fucking with you.


.

Top
#73534 - 12/03/12 12:43 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: ceruleansteel]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Quote:
And just because you don't see or hear that they are having sex does not mean that their "sexuality has been cut out".

With that part I actually ment the couples who decide to wear almost the same plain clothes, enjoying the mental relationship too much to be healthy and at a certain degree become alienated from friends..

 Quote:
I can only wonder what people you are being exposed to.

I sometimes wonder that myself. Should stay in more often..
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#73546 - 12/03/12 07:41 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Dimitri]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
 Quote:
With that part I actually ment the couples who decide to wear almost the same plain clothes, enjoying the mental relationship too much to be healthy and at a certain degree become alienated from friends..


What's wrong with enjoying the mental relationship? I would think that would make people an even better fit because if you can't talk to your partner you're wasting your time.

As for being alienated from friends...you're talking to a girl who lives in a country that was built by pioneers. 100 years ago EVERYONE here was alienated from friends. It's not a big deal to me, especially with this wonderful world of internet. Right now, we're having a conversation. You are closer to me than my neighbors are.

I don't see either of those as being unhealthy, to be honest. Strangers probably will not have your back; friends MAY have your back. Your spouse, however, has made a promise in front of all your friends and family, and signed a legal document stating that s/he will ALWAYS have your back. I think it's pretty clear which investment is the best one to invest in.


.

Top
#73555 - 12/03/12 10:09 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: ceruleansteel]
Happy Birthday Pynkii Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/21/12
Posts: 25
Well Dmitri I return the question, where in the world do you hang out? By truly monogamous I'm meaning a person that is content with being with a single partner. My current partner is 100% "faithful" and the idea of being with another woman actually enrages him. Also, he rocks my world beneath the sheets, and we don't wear matching polo shirts and keds, either.
_________________________
As if you could kill time without injuring eternity

Top
#73603 - 12/05/12 02:37 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: ceruleansteel]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1146
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
You're liberal, aren't you?

No, I'm a firm believer in personal accountability and keeping commitments. You seem to have misunderstood what I'm getting at.

When I say that people need to stop signing without reading, I am not implying that the fact that they failed to read should get them off the hook. Rather, I'm implying that it's their own damn fault they didn't read in the first place, and thus no excuse. What I expressed was scorn, not pity.

The corollary is that you're not bound to anything that wasn't in what you signed. Just as the person signing has a duty to read, the person drafting has a duty to make sure to include any terms they expect. Or, as you put it:

 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
As for all of your illustrations in paragraph two:
Don't give a fuck. If these things are important to a person, they need to be addressed at some point before the proverbial knot is tied.

That's exactly what I was getting at, CS.

We're just coming at the issue from different angles. You're saying "Keep the agreements you make," which I support 100%. I'm just looking at the other person's duty: "Make the agreements you want kept."

 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
...the relationships that I have been talking about are the ones where at least one party is under the impression that this is the case. I find it very difficult to believe that said party can get that idea all by themselves.

This is my main issue. I've seen people get that idea all by themselves a lot. One party had a set of unspoken expectations, based on absurd assumptions about "how relationships are" universally. "One kiss makes him my boyfriend. One date makes him my boyfriend," etc. It's not the guy's fault that a single kiss gave the chick the impression that they were involved; it's her fault for having such a stupid and unspoken assumption.

I'm just saying put the onus on whoever dropped the ball. If the terms were made clear but someone failed to understand, read, or abide by them, that's on him. If the expected terms were never put down in the first place, that's on the person who failed to be clear.

 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
And what type of commitments are not serious/can be blown off? Any time I commit to something, I'm serious about it. I always thought that to be the difference between "committing" and "considering". Unless you have another English or Business Law lesson for me, I'd like to know what commitments are - to you - not important.

When I said taking a commitment seriously, I was not talking about keeping it versus blowing it off. I was talking about how much considering (as you put it) should be done before committing. Buying a cart of $50 worth of groceries requires less considering before committing than buying a car. I should pay for both all the same. Neither should be blown off. One should just be considered more thoroughly before I commit.
_________________________
Wir halten uns an Regeln, Wenn man uns regeln lässt

Top
#73608 - 12/05/12 08:18 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: XiaoGui17]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
It seems that I have been misunderstanding you. The phrasing lead me to believe that you were disagreeing when I guess the opposite was true.

If someone doesn't like the standard marriage contract, they can always have a prenup drawn up to specify the differences they require or request.

 Quote:
It's not the guy's fault that a single kiss gave the chick the impression that they were involved; it's her fault for having such a stupid and unspoken assumption.


I tried every way I could to make it clear that these were not the type of relationships I was talking about. This may have contributed to the misunderstanding because I concluded that I thought your arguments were about what I was talking about.

 Quote:
If the terms were made clear but someone failed to understand, read, or abide by them, that's on him. If the expected terms were never put down in the first place, that's on the person who failed to be clear.


Of course. However, there is a sort of "standard" for the method and progression of relationships. I think that a person who fails to state something they desire that does not reflect the standard expectation (that standard expectation being monogamy), and they are living with someone or married to someone or agree to be "boyfriend/girlfriend" (which to me implies exclusivity unless otherwise noted), then they are in the wrong. If you go through all the motions of the standard, then you should expect the standard to apply regardless of what you truly want or think or feel.

A simple conversation prior to leveling up the relationship, or a legal clause in the marriage contract, or even adjusting one's lifestyle so that the possibility of this situation becomes slim would prevent any of this confusion in the first place.

 Quote:
When I said taking a commitment seriously, I was not talking about keeping it versus blowing it off. I was talking about how much considering (as you put it) should be done before committing. Buying a cart of $50 worth of groceries requires less considering before committing than buying a car. I should pay for both all the same. Neither should be blown off. One should just be considered more thoroughly before I commit.


I think if your illustrations are going to stray from the topic at hand, you should be more clear with your explanation. I don't consider any type of purchase, big or small, to be in the same zip code as a commitment made to a human being. You can return house or car within 3 days with no penalty and even resell it later if you dislike it after months. You can take a toaster back to walmart. None of these things *care* if you keep your word or not. The toaster is not heartbroken. The car will not feel blown off or betrayed.

Making a commitment to another person is a totally different ballpark. Humans DO care when you bullshit them or blow them off. Apples and oranges, in my opinion.


.

Top
#75530 - 03/25/13 03:24 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Opacus]
334forwardspin Offline
member


Registered: 03/04/13
Posts: 509
Loc: Las Vegas,NV United States
I'm in a committed relationship right now, and would not cheat and don't believe my girlfriend would either.

It's fairly simple, if you want to sleep around with a lot of people, don't be in a committed relationship. That is all you have to do, just don't be in one if you want to sleep around.

If someone cheats on you and doesn't take your feelings into consideration, you should get them out of your life and not be around them.

Top
#75546 - 03/25/13 11:32 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: 334forwardspin]
Blackbanner Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/12/13
Posts: 29
Loc: Bartow County,Georgia
I feel that this is a decision each Satanist should consider.
Are you being sexually fulfilled in your present relations.Remember indulgence instead of abstinence is a major guideline in this situation I should think.If you feel the need to be totally fulfilled and that means other partners I say be discreet but indulge.Unless of course you are able to find pleasure in the pain and frustration of desires unfulfilled.In that case I could understand your abstinence.

Hail Satan!

Top
#75580 - 03/26/13 11:46 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Blackbanner]
334forwardspin Offline
member


Registered: 03/04/13
Posts: 509
Loc: Las Vegas,NV United States
 Originally Posted By: Blackbanner
I feel that this is a decision each Satanist should consider.
Are you being sexually fulfilled in your present relations.Remember indulgence instead of abstinence is a major guideline in this situation I should think.If you feel the need to be totally fulfilled and that means other partners I say be discreet but indulge.Unless of course you are able to find pleasure in the pain and frustration of desires unfulfilled.In that case I could understand your abstinence.

Hail Satan!


I'm not a LaVeyan, so I don't apply of TSB's guidelines to life. Indulgence over abstinence for me is just a part of freedom. I only apply it in the sense that we CAN indulge our desires, not to mean that we have to in every situation.

We all have our own moral views, and for me if your just going to look out for numero uno you shouldn't be in a relationship. If you don't want to take the other person into consideration then just be single because no one says you have to be in a relationship.

The need to indulge on everything you wan't isn't that important, if you can still be happy.

Top
#75583 - 03/27/13 09:20 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: 334forwardspin]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
I indulged in celibacy for eights years and, believe me, it was worth every moment.
Apologies for the one-liner but it's just a concise point I wished to make vis-a-vis the notion of indulgence.
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#75587 - 03/27/13 01:39 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: felixgarnet]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Quote:
I indulged in celibacy for eights years and, believe me, it was worth every moment.

If I may inquire, what's worthwhile about it?
I already have difficulty laying off the pussy for more then a month.. for 8 years would be frustratiting like fuck.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#75599 - 03/28/13 01:51 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Dimitri]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
I didn't feel any need to share physical intimacy with anyone, after spending quite a few years hoping for "the one" to turn up and being less than true to myself by accommodating other people's unpleasantness. This was due partially to finding people sexually attractive and wanting to do something about it and partly a wish to be partnered and not seen as a "sad single".

Celibacy gave me tons of peaceful time to myself with no compromise over eating, socializing, painting the walls, reading in silence or watching TV.

Eventually, in my 50's, the right person appeared when I was making absolutely no effort to look for one. We're best pals as well as lovers and it's right. :-)
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#75600 - 03/28/13 02:03 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: felixgarnet]
Tallulah Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/16/11
Posts: 10
I can relate, felixgarnet. I chose not to have sex for 7 years when I was in my 20s - because it served me as a single parent. I've never been undersexed, but see value in mastering self. I, too, found the right person at the right time. It is the greatest thing to be free and aware of having choices.
_________________________
~Tallulah~

Top
#75605 - 03/28/13 04:50 AM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: Tallulah]
334forwardspin Offline
member


Registered: 03/04/13
Posts: 509
Loc: Las Vegas,NV United States
Yeah, I chose not to have sex until I was 18. By chose, I mean no one wanted to have sex with me lol. It didn't bother me though, I am "self-sufficient" in that department so to speak, lol. I think it's good to be that way, because you aren't dependent on others to be "happy" in that area. I found someone I consider to be the one, and we have a good relationship that isn't built around sex even though we find each other attractive.

I think the need for actual intercourse is overemphasized a lot, it varies from person to person. Some people need it more than others. People act as if you have to want to have actual intercourse, and if you don't there's something psychologically wrong with you. There are other ways you can satisfy yourself besides actual intercourse.

Top
#82293 - 11/12/13 07:44 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: 334forwardspin]
antikarmatomic Offline
BANNED
stalker


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
My thoughts on this are basically that while the mind is conditioned to think one way the flesh has its own agenda.
Far too many times have I met up with a female friend of mine with the sincerest intent of just talking to / maybe order pizza and catch-up.

Being an older brother of a few sisters roughly my age, I have no issues talking to a girl on a purely intellectual level - no ulterior motives; just good conversation “hey what’s up?”
What I find invariably happens is while it sounds good on paper, no plan lasts first contact of the enemy when it's someone I am not actually related to.

"Oh she's *like* my little sister" or "he's *like* a brother"... my "buddy - my pal" (ala' Chris Rock) but seriously - biology dictates who is what. If they're not, then they are not - it's a weird rationale; and pretty flimsy.

Often what started out as an innocently-intended face-to-face ended up with her going back home to her family with the taste of my sperm on her lips, and in the long-run, basically wrecking a few homes.

Some would say "how sinister :D" and some might say "how amoral :|" but it's neither... in my opinion. It just lends me insight into how it is necessary to see things as they *are* and not as they ought be because things will only be what they are; never more and never less.

For me it is simply interesting to witness. "God's special little creature".

This same pattern has occurred a few times with me, and I dunno what to say about it except to say bodies just do what they do when alone - no one was forced; that's foe sure. One can either accept this, experience it and observe it, or rationalize it 9 ways to Sunday to no real avail.

People cheat, at least under the right circumstances; there's something within us more powerful than ideas. For as even as distasteful as I find it to be, I realize I am no exception. Understanding this, and seeing it for what it is - is basically a pretty big chunk as to why I am satanic (as opposed to 'a Satanist') - I'd rather see myself for what I am or at least have been, than what I should be or should've been - there's understanding and wisdom in this.

While this may sound like bragging, there is nothing to be proud of so far as I can tell. I'm not necessarily "ashamed" but it feels somewhat unfair.

I felt bad for her husband – he seemed like a good dude… but I mean… I don’t think the intellect can prevail in such scenarios.

That’s why the whole “I don’t know, I’m sorry *it just happened*” – becomes both such a cliché’ yet common excuse to infidelity. It is not an excuse at all - it is an explanation for which no other words can suffice.

Maybe it has to do with the occult wisdom of the flesh, maybe it has to do with lack of moral fortitude – I don’t question it.

What I do know is that it is a powerful thing and under the right circumstances will cast even the most seemingly certain platitudes right out the window. “I would never cheat” “I would never___” – just words… just words.

Honestly, I don’t condone it – it is actually one of those things that I’m sort of like “damn, I’m a bit fucked up”… at least after-the-fact... but if that’s my nature (and it is), then so be it.

I have since concluded that if I want to be faithful and not get wrapped up into being the “other” – simply avoid those situations. It is all I can do. That's the wisdom I have taken with me. "Know thy self" - if I want to be faithful, I simply know myself enough not to put myself in that situation.

One might argue that my will is weak, but not so much, my will is my nature – and it is important to truly understand our natures not for what they should be but for what they are.

I would argue that one does not have the capacity to change their will, but we do have the capacity to avoid or invoke certain situations - and with a bit of introspection - find the results to be predictable.

The intellect only goes so far. \:\/ and it is of no avail when dealing with… well… not only “the forbidden”… but the very mechanisms of procreation itself.


Edited by antikarmatomic (11/12/13 08:39 PM)
_________________________
Angelic harlequins and sinister clowns.

Top
#82299 - 11/12/13 11:40 PM Re: Thoughts on infidelity? [Re: antikarmatomic]
antikarmatomic Offline
BANNED
stalker


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
In short; there is no virtue without temptation, yet it is an often perilous venture to go about testing one's virtues. ;\) "all we are is all we are"... inasmuch reads the cracked and worn sign on the tavern wall "it is what it is".

Edited by antikarmatomic (11/12/13 11:48 PM)
_________________________
Angelic harlequins and sinister clowns.

Top
Page all of 7 12345>Last »


Moderator:  Woland, TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.113 seconds of which 0.006 seconds were spent on 115 queries. Zlib compression disabled.