Page 2 of 2 <12
Topic Options
#49504 - 02/24/11 03:57 AM Re: The Adversarial Archetype [Re: nocTifer]
Solar Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 7
Loc: Western Europe
 Originally Posted By: "nocTifer"
The resting or passive adversary appears to be what most closely resembles what you're describing.
Seeing it from your point of view, yes I suppose I am.
 Originally Posted By: "nocTifer"
I gather you're primarily focussing on religious propaganda promoters, and so since they may have an investment in getting you to listen to them, then of course you can 'hurt' them by ignoring them, asking them to 'talk to the hand'.
Indeed, I mainly was. But either political, religious or even social propaganda are all much of the basis of modern power. Because we believe we live in a largely democratic world, we have to be convinced in ways that let us believe we have a choice. Not buying into this at all (instead of accepting it or rebelling against it) was the main idea I was trying to put forth.
 Originally Posted By: "nocTifer"

This is an important question, because you are asking what the effects that an adversary (any?) might have in terms of impingement to your world. If you can't imagine any more extensive influence on your world, then consider yourself lucky.
I suppose I should. I live in a fairly liberal climate where things would have to go pretty far off the map to get to that. (I would hate to have those things you mention happen to me, although it might not be such an unthinkable thing at the moment due to the fearmongering of populist politicians around these parts.)
 Originally Posted By: "nocTifer"

If they are truly 'powers that be', then of course they can have much more extensive influence upon us than that from which we may merely ignore and walk away. I'm not here arguing that you are wrong in what you are saying, only that it is limited to a very particular context and may serve you where it does not serve others.
I suppose tunnelvision might be part of the problem. As much as posing questions, I like to search for answers and in that, just as quite probably a lot if not all people do, I sometimes ignore certain trains of thought in favour of those that seem to fit in perfectly at the first try.

Top
#49984 - 02/27/11 01:27 AM Re: The Adversarial--Definiendum [Re: paolo sette]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
The end of the phenomenal universe may seem to be a long way off, but just as a dead star shines brightly in the night's sky though long since dead; Life is a flash of fleeting light. The senses perceive the deadlight of a dead star

The individual cultivates the path to desolation back from whichever abstraction he is at, all paths lead back to the crossroads of Chaos—The Dark Night of the Soul. Assertion of the nihilist dialectic and an abuse of the laughter/laughter Chaos magick principle, the external does not control the individual. Why? Because the individual may laugh at anything corporeal, because his desolate laughter has no opposite nor causal manifestation as his hate is primordial, pure and universal, and beyond paroxysmal emotion with no discrimination of the target; friend, foe, dead, alive—all are meaningless before his desolate inspiration. The desolate one laughs at corpses, for it makes him blithe.

In this we see that the individual is beyond the limitations imposed by the demiurgos (and how homo nullus expect him to react). The external does not control the individual, he sees through it's illusions, he recognises the dark that perpetuate from the brightest stratagem of light. the individual mocks the foolish demiurgos in essence not in ego—the ego is part of the phenomenal demurgos illusion and is the enemy.

The demiurgos (in this existential nihilist paradigm) is the phenomenal, external form of the idea of the world, which the individual has been imprisoned—the ego. Deconstruction of this world opens the dark uncreation stage from which the emergence of absolute new can emerge from absolute nothing (or to come back as demiurge or to simply not exist at all). This is the challenge of the self. With discipline and willed actions, he shapes his life's reality through his minds reality. The incorporeal Will of the individual is a link to the Dark acausal, the primordial uncreation state which is reached instantly yet timelessly through the gate of death. This is the Dark acausal where physicals and linear causal time are not relevant and lawless manifestation is possible. The incorporeal Will of the individual is part of the ineffable Source, the non-existence, the black deluge of uncreation which ensnares the bastard demiurgos in blackness at the end death of the universe making it once more part of the timeless primordial Chaos.

The incorporeal Will opposes the corporeal Will of the cosmos.

Dark gnosis: One-pointedness meditation into the abyssal mind. I recommend you repeat your false name in a chant or in your head or both, and gaze into a mirror in front of you until your reflection is revealed to be bizarre and the words you are repeating are sounding alien. When this is achieved switch off the light and begin to cultivate sensory deprivation, do these two exercises for two days in a row, the second for as long as you can bear and then a bit extra. The resulting sleep deprivation should then be enhanced via lucid dreaming about butchering or meditating on corpses in your pitch dark room, this will help cultivate a type of hideous insanity which the individual will culminate up to paroxysm. Here the individual lieth death posture and evoke the emotion of laughter. The non-dual state will be a sudden darkness. But the room is already dark? yes this is different. The objective apart from profound desolation and one-pointed clear-sightedness into your sinister mind, is the seemingly irreversible ability to laugh at anything from loved ones dying to having your own head smashed in.

*homo nullus is a 'human without'. He is filled with light/ ego and paradoxically he lacks 'the emptiness'.
_________________________


Top
#50221 - 03/01/11 12:32 AM Re: The Adversarial--Definiendum [Re: Hegesias]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



I would like to show my support for Skaff’s comments.

I have my own story, which I thought people may have some interest in.

I gave up a promising career in finance, I mean I just chucked it in and burnt all my bridges and went to art - college and teachers college for seven years. I picked up a Bachelors degree and two Masters degrees (one with honours).

There was never enough money and there was only a slight chance of material success, but there was no other option – one must live authentically or else one will slowly rot and become a part of a gray scenery.

I exhibited and I taught. There was love, cult involvements and political awareness and activity as well. I slowly tore down wall after wall until I finally knew where I was at. I read Marx, Weber, Nietzsche, Freud LaVey, Heidegger, Foucault, Derrida etc. etc. All that good shit was done.

If you treasure your life then live it as authentically as you can I say. Your Satanism is an outcome of this authenticity; Satanism should accurately reflect who you are right down at the bone and you should revel in your years as much as you can.

Top
#82162 - 11/10/13 05:01 AM Re: The Adversarial--Definiendum [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Ghostly1 Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
 Originally Posted By: SkaffenAmtiskaw
All that matters is that you do this for *you*, and not to satisfy some imagined requirements or perceived standards. Calling yourself a Satanist matters to precisely *one* person, and that's you. You reject the force-feeding and decide to be the one in charge of your life.


Sometimes it takes saturating in the current to finally absorb some bit of knowledge.

I think this post is especially relevant now as it was when it was written. Its nice to finally cast those invisible chains away, and walk with a lighter step but sometimes it may take a while for the choices you made or ideas you read about to finally click. Like the key in a lock. I've grown more this year than I have in three prior. Maybe it's my own personal learning curve or that I finally understood the things which were staring me in the face.

You can have your ideas and methods challenged, and you can choose to defend them if you feel the need. In hindsight such a reactionary, knee jerk response still proves there is some residual guilt that you care about what everyone else thinks about you. This may be one of the hardest things to let go of. We live in a very peer accepted society where slaves to fashion fret over what to wear, or not knowing the outcome of the popular TV sitcoms leaves you out of the conversations.

I will stick to my documentaries, and Science channel. All my clothes are black, simply out of efficiency as all my clothes match.

Maybe not caring about how you are perceived can be the best course to take, or using the dissatisfaction of those around you as a motivator towards self improvement which will leave your detractors silent and humble at the person you have become.

Some bridges might get burned walking the path of the one. Even those most dear to you might never understand the reasons you chose to walk away. But knowing the truth of it all, and accepting you owe explanations to no one is part of that process of moving on. Bearing the weight of your solitude will make you stronger in the end.
_________________________
Become a force of nature.

Top
#82344 - 11/15/13 02:12 AM Re: The Adversarial Archetype [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Knievel74 Offline
member


Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
I try not to reply to posts that are too old but I have to say that this is an excellent post and there are some great replies. As far back as I can remember I have never 'run with the pack'. Now that I'm adult I'm so much better for it.

@Ghostly1: It's funny you mention the phrase "Burning your bridges". I used to have a friend who would always use that as an excuse for not doing what they knew was best for them. I was never concerned about burning a bridge, I could always swim to the other side.
_________________________
"Man was meant to live, not just to exist". - Evel Knievel

Top
#82345 - 11/15/13 03:49 AM Re: The Adversarial Archetype [Re: Knievel74]
Ghostly1 Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
Let me know swimming across the grand canyon works out.

Its more a metaphor, or analogy for changes which have lasting effect. But optimism is justified in that because either way you saw another way to make the journey despite the change....but I also see swimming back as a obvious sign of regret. Regression to a road or destination you left for a reason. You should never be afraid of change. Jumping iceberg to iceberg as they melt but knowing you may run out is always a possibility but taking that leap is the most important part.
_________________________
Become a force of nature.

Top
#82354 - 11/15/13 08:34 PM Re: The Adversarial Archetype [Re: Ghostly1]
Knievel74 Offline
member


Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
Agreed.

Burning bridges should be the last option. But at least have the strength to do it, if necessary.
_________________________
"Man was meant to live, not just to exist". - Evel Knievel

Top
#85881 - 03/21/14 01:18 AM Re: The Adversarial Archetype [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
antikarmatomic Offline
BANNED
stalker


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
Though pretty late in the game on this one I found it to be a reasonably suitable topic to interject with a sentiment I have been mulling over:

Without an enemy or adversity the tendency is to wallow in stagnate mires of complacency and decay.

Subsequently the phrase “[…] love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you” Makes a certain amount of sense.

Pray for them in abundance like the parched pray for rain since they are the wet-stones of a sharp intellect and, in defeat, trophies to my cunning.


This has always represented the lion's-share of what, in my mind, it means to be satanic as opposed to merely "Being an adversary"

Since there is no free lunch it would be impossible to go throughout life *without* being an adversary to something or other.

Acknowledging this is the first step. Self-awareness. "Know thyself". Like concavity and convexity, terms such as protagonist and antagonist are relative only to one's often arbitrary perspective.

Understanding the true value and life-affirming necessity of adversity is the natural continuation of this.

It doesn't mean picking up a cause to right the world of all of its hypocrisy - as if Satanism is the only rational religion.

It means confronting ideas, harsh truths, and world-views that genuinely challenge you.

For example, if you are a die-hard-capitalist then this is all the more reason to study Marxism.

To brush it off on account of "that's not what I believe in so it is stupid and wrong" is true intellectual laziness and a recipe for eventual defeat.

In short "if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles".

One cannot know an enemy they are unwilling to understand.


Edited by antikarmatomic (03/21/14 01:26 AM)
_________________________
Angelic harlequins and sinister clowns.

Top
#86061 - 03/27/14 03:51 AM Re: The Adversarial Archetype [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
334forwardspin Offline
member


Registered: 03/04/13
Posts: 509
Loc: Las Vegas,NV United States
This is a very good take on the meaning of the adversarial mindset. I've always said that a willingness to be adversarial is the sound approach, as opposed to a need.

When you take a flat out contrarian approach, where you feel the need to see things different than general consensus, Christianity or whatever else, then your views are being determined by others just as much as if you shape your views around consisting with whatever source. You may be adversarial, but your not exhibiting free thinking. There is also the mistake in Satanism of shaping views based on what a Satanic path says as well, TOTBL, CoS or whatever else. That is merely replacing one 'master' with another.

A willingness to be adversarial, but still embracing ideas you value that are more popular is the key. It is an adversarial mindset, in the sense that you disregard society's opinion in deciding one's views. Many adversarial ideas are things I find very ridiculous, and don't see as much value in. On the flip side, there are popular ideas that I do find value in. The values of a society change overtime, and I certainly would not suddenly throw away ideas I find value in just because they become more widely embraced.

For me, a key emphasis is also not shaping goals and measuring success around what society values and respects, but rather by a factually based standard that you pick(well, as factual as it can be), and using that standard of measure to determine how well you've done. It is important to still be able to see the value an achievement/skill may have, even if society does not respect it.

That seems much harder for many Satanists than embracing a viewpoint society just hates. I suppose it's because with the latter, the 'haters gonna hate' mindset kicks in that can boost the ego, whereas the former does not. However, in recognizing that the ability and body of work indicated in an accomplishment is the same regardless of how it is viewed, it would be much easier.

Top
Page 2 of 2 <12


Moderator:  TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Woland, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.023 seconds of which 0.001 seconds were spent on 22 queries. Zlib compression disabled.