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#48716 - 02/11/11 09:56 PM The Necessity of Evil for Evolution
Kali Offline
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Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 33
(Hey everyone. I've been busy in college so I haven't had much time to surf this site. I'm working on writing an essay that conveys how evil is necessary to the survival of the human race. I'm not sure if it articulates everything to the best point. I know it might need some critique or criticism. Please tell me what you think, writing-wise, as well as view-wise. Do you agree? What are your thoughts?)

For the Love of Lucifer

I am a twenty-two year old woman who struggles with schizophrenia. I see a therapist, and recently we began doing meridian tapping and eye movement therapy. It’s amazing what the mind is capable of doing when trust is formed and you feel safe. The mind also has a natural survival mechanism on its own and possibly the greatest wonder of the universe. Sometimes, the amount of stability I enjoy in life makes me question whether I were schizophrenic at all, but I take medication and I survive. Surviving for as much time I can is my absolute goal. I also am learning in the process. I am learning about human nature and how evil is inherent to many situations. I’ve learned that coming to terms with hatred, cruelty, and evil helps us process reality and choose what we most appreciate in life. In my case it is justice, love, and honesty.

When I was fourteen I was struggling with racing thoughts, and I longed to fit into an awkward social scheme of behavior. Tight jeans, make-up, and relationships were hard for me to grow accustomed to. I remember that I watched a movie about a gothic girl who never fit in, and I identified so much with her on a deep level. She cut herself and disregarded the norms of society by drawing graffiti on the windows of a shopping mall. It was there that she made a friend with a man who helped her come to terms with her identity. Being young, the moral of the story was somewhat lost to me. I didn’t become gothic, but I absorbed myself in writing alone every day.

My stories, although I forget many of them, were somewhat erratic. After I went to a small Quaker boarding school, since my parents were afraid I couldn’t handle an over-crowded public school, I had even more issues with finding myself. I longed to fit in, but many of the students teased me and disregarded things I found important. Most of all, I was struggling not only with racing thoughts and neediness, but repressed experiences from my early childhood life.
During my episode, I had a sudden feeling of bright illumination. I didn’t necessarily believe I was Jesus, but that I had the right to think I was. So I stubbornly sat down in the bathroom stall of a hotel and prayed.

My parents hospitalized me, and although it was probably necessary, I was not able to handle the abuse of staff members at this hospital. I was isolated for not cooperating, they didn’t follow any procedure, and it was all to make me compliant with a system I felt was flawed. I believed I was strong enough to overcome my schizophrenia. But now, looking back, I believe it was probably the best thing for me despite the abuses. I was able to get back on my feet, and struggle to regain my sense of self. I learned to adapt, as the medication I found helped me. It balanced me in such a way that I could bring clarity and retrospection to my irrational fears. It took time, though.
I know there are some people who think that mental illness is just a sickness, but despite the truth about brain imbalances, there is a social context that the public needs to be aware of on a fundamental level. The basic social context is that hospitals should not be places where abuses can happen, it should not be a system made for compliance but a hospital needs to be a place to treat someone’s emotional and psychological hurts in many ways.

There are many people who I know that feel afraid to go to hospitals because they are not always the safest places. They say they would like a retreat, a place of safety in nature, or somewhere they can write out their feelings. I believe mental health has become too medication oriented. Not everyone has the money to seek out a good therapist. I am fortunate to have a family who cares about me, and helps support me so that I am a very stable individual. Yet, madness is almost an evil in and of itself. It is another evil necessary in the struggle of humanity.

Evil is necessary for the survival of humanity as a race and culture. That is to say that without evil there would be no night, no stars, nor a balance of opposites. Free will necessitates evil because as humans, we make mistakes by nature. To be a healthy human being in this world, we must come to terms with our demons. Those who repress their demons, whether consciously or unconsciously are merely lying to themselves. Evil exists within us all and is inherent to the human condition. We can choose to resist the temptation to do wrong, but in order to do that we must know what is wrong. Although evil deeds and purposely cruel actions lead to chaos, that chaos will eventually settle back into order. To know one’s own evil, is to know the temptation that every human possesses. Why would any individual possess such a quality? Evil is a part of evolution. It is something that we need not overcome by rising above it, but by integrating the pieces of our nature into the whole. By discarding evil, it only transfers to another source.

Energy is neither created nor destroyed, but knowledge conquers all. Conscious will is the path to individual enlightenment. The yin and yang of life, the cosmic egg, the revolving circle, and the morning star all point to the symbolic truth of the nature of evil. Evil is primal, both eternal and overwhelmingly powerful. It brings saints to their knees. I do not think that God, as a paternal far-reaching force in the sky, could prevent evil from coming to mankind. Evil is just as a part of God as madness.

Is madness evil? Madness is a part of the human condition, and there-fore an aspect of survival. I don't consider it evil in the sense, although I'm not certain that it isn't necessary. How can a complete destruction of the mind, or the nuclear bomb dropped on a third world country ever be good? It’s not good, but it teaches humans to use their hands and their minds to find alternatives. When faced with an evil such as war, those who think with their hearts will follow them toward a peaceful better world. Those with hands will build towers not on sand, and those with a voice will sing. Evil is an abstract notion that reveals the innermost core of the individual, and also the eternal, the changing, the stagnant, and the dark.

The night blankets the world in illumination.
Evil urges a man to do what he desires, out of hatred and passion. Does this passion have any result that is worthy of man? It does, in fact, but only through those who pick up the pieces. Should criminals get away with murder? No, I don’t think they should. And yet, evil cannot be contained unless society approaches it with an open mind, with conscious realization of the evil within us all. We must learn to survive not out of hatred for each-other, but out of necessity to continue to greater pursuits.

Coming terms with madness has helped shed light on the true nature of humanity. If you consciously choose to do something evil, you are only shedding illumination of the rottenness within you. A person who commits a crime should be punished, not just in a moral sense, but also helped in a cultural sense.

They should be rehabilitated so that they can come back to the real world as good people, but punishment needs to be something a human learns to accept. For punishment is also a fundamental aspect of human nature. We punish each other all the time. Those who deserve punishment are those who share no value to society. They are those who do nothing but take away from people i.e. killers and abusers. To build a tower just to see it fall is a form of self-mutilation, for humanity needs a strong-hold to continue on and progress.

Lucifer teaches us to touch the deepest scariest places of ourselves, and learn to cope with them in the best way we can. The only sin of Lucifer is ignorance. If you ignore the pain that bleeds, it will continue to bleed. Lucifer is much like the pain we feel when we get hurt, he is a warning to come to terms with our psychological needs. He is not necessarily a dark demon of hell, but he is the warning of what ignorance leads to. We part from ourselves through obeying evil, and we become better people by conquering it, acknowledging it, and moving through it.

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#48733 - 02/12/11 09:59 AM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: Kali]
Jason King Offline
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Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
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 Originally Posted By: Kali
Energy is neither created nor destroyed, but knowledge conquers all. Conscious will is the path to individual enlightenment. The yin and yang of life, the cosmic egg, the revolving circle, and the morning star all point to the symbolic truth of the nature of evil. Evil is primal, both eternal and overwhelmingly powerful.


Kali, welcome. I've said this before, and I'll say it again now, Kali was the most proper glyph of the Master ever given. But anywho . . .

I chose a small portion of your post on which to reply simply because I'd like others to appreciate the depth of it and rejoin where they might see fit.

Constructive criticism: you pulled the term "evil" out of an undefined "hat," seeing as how every time you have introduced it, you were doing little more than assuming a contextual meaning which has never been provided.

In the material of yours quoted above, I do not see how any of the priors (e.g. energy, consciousness, life, yin/yang, etc.) establish either the necessity or facticity of a thing/concept determined as "evil". In this sense, I am duty bound to call you on a argumentum non sequitur, and if I can be frank, perhaps the only bald case thereof which has met my experience.

You appear to be assuming facts not in evidence, which may or may not invalidate your thesis, depending on how you choose to refabricate said thesis for further discussion/exploration. You have things of substance to communicate, I do not deny you that. But you need to shore up your logic a bit . . .

JK
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#48736 - 02/12/11 11:26 AM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: Kali]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2435
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"in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock." - Harry Lime (Orson Welles) in The Third Man, 1949
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#48740 - 02/12/11 12:28 PM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: Jason King]
Kali Offline
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Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 33
Thanks for the critique. You basically say what I was worried about in my essay. I picked up a book called "The Lucifer Principle" which goes on to describe how genetics, society, and etc. are influenced by evil and how it is necessary for human evolution. I haven't read the book yet, but this was the idea I was trying to articulate. The book is dense, and the concept is more existential I think.

Is evil i.e. corruption, war, cruelty for cruelty's sake at all a valuable tool in today's culture? Does it further the human race because we learn to acknowledge our darkness, and move through it? I really need to work out my thesis.


Thanks for the help though. I think I have more clarity on what I want to say now. It's just a matter of thinking outside the box and coming up with a way to represent it.

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#48742 - 02/12/11 12:36 PM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: Kali]
Diavolo Offline
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There is no evil; there are only moral interpretations of certain behavior or actions.

You might find value in Nietzsche's work upon morals and master-slave morality, and his notes upon Will to Power. WtP is the foundation the Lucifer Principle is based upon.

D.

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#48743 - 02/12/11 12:36 PM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Kali Offline
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Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 33
Good quote!

And I think it's true. War-faring cultures/countries adapt far more quickly than those who just sit around and ignore the world around them. What I also meant is that there should be a justified cause to war. Evil is an action with no justifiable cause.

I use the term evil abstractly, but in my essay barely got to the bones of it. I wrote it for fun anyways, it's not for a contest or class, so it's harder to get motivated to just write for writing's sake for me. There has to be a goal.

I was hoping it would spark some debate, but I didn't define evil enough.

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#48744 - 02/12/11 12:38 PM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: Diavolo]
Kali Offline
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Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 33
I was tempted to pick up Nietzsche in the college bookstore, but instead I got 1984 and Cat's Cradle...both classics I haven't yet read. I will definitely continue to look into Nietzsche, I think we have some books on him at my house.
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#48759 - 02/12/11 03:42 PM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: Kali]
TheInsane Offline
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Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
As others have said all of what you wrote tends to fall flat because you never define the very core of what the essay is supposed to be about. For something like this you need a definition of evil which you never give.

Personally it seems to me that you divide between creative (good) and destructive (evil). To me neither is good not evil. Good and evil are terms coined in regards to concious action. But hey thats just me.

I do agree with JK that Kali probably is the best representation of a "Satanic divinity" there is. Very fascinating mythology surrounds her and she isnt at all what some people seem to think she is.

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#48768 - 02/12/11 10:57 PM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: TheInsane]
XiaoGui17 Offline
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Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1096
Loc: Amarillo, TX
While evil remained undefined, Nietzsche was the first source that occurred to me. I'm glad to see Diavolo mentioned him.

Here is the seat of the origin of the famous antithesis “good” and “evil”:—power and dangerousness are assumed to reside in evil, a certain dreadfulness, subtlety, and strength, which do not admit of being despised. According to slave-morality, therefore, the “evil” man arouses fear; according to master-morality, it is precisely the “good” man who arouses fear and seeks to arouse it…
-Slave and Master Morality
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Texas is to 'Murika what 'Murika is to the rest of the world.

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#48801 - 02/13/11 10:25 PM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: XiaoGui17]
myk5 Offline
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Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
Without touching on good or evil, because I personally am selfish enough to think such terms only exist relative to my self interest, I will suggest the evolutionary biologist Steven J. Gould has an answer: the strength of a species is its DIVERSITY!

Simply, a community that has both political hawks and doves, for a coarse example, is best prepared for cooperation or war as is necessary. A community overwhelmed by one or the other will fail when circumstances make the minority or non existent point of view the only point of view for continued survival.

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#48835 - 02/14/11 08:52 PM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: myk5]
paolo sette Offline
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Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
 Quote:
Please tell me what you think, writing-wise, as well as view-wise. Do you agree? What are your thoughts?)


Evilness shows how much "becoming whole" means to the wrongdoer, criminal, felon, gangster, murderer, pshcho-sociopath, lawbreaker, sinner, troublemaker and/or villain. Preoccupation with the riddles of Evilness may perhaps stiffen the spine of the faint-hearted person or provide spectacles for his/her shortsightedness, so that from 'the gloomy hole in the wall' the evilness in the doer may enjoy at least a glimpse of the world of experience which is shrouded in a mist of delusions. It will certainly not end badly for the villain, for those who are terrified will be infiltrated by corruption as well as everthing of significance by the helpful idea of reason.

Do not underestimate the depth of Evilness, or to assume any kind of cheap thrill in Evil. The zealously nurtured attitude of credulity towards the treasure of thought is a lesser danger than pure root-Evilness which is fortunately many marvellously incomprehensible words as in Devil-cults. And, Evilness demands intelligence and Will-power as do all the greater things which desire to become real.

Evil is Real.

666
_________________________
tathagata-svapratyatma-aryajnana-adhigama
666
[nig]-ge-na-da a-ba in-da-di nam-ti i-u-tu

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#48841 - 02/14/11 11:46 PM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: paolo sette]
myk5 Offline
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Re: Paolo:
A bit of a thread drift to go from 'is evil necessary to evolution', to an examination of evil itself.

But I am game.

First, I don't agree that a wrongdoer = criminal = criminal = felon = gangster = murderer = sociopath = lawbreaker = sinner = troublemaker = villain. Sociopaths are handicapped. A wrong doer doing wrong is almost never doing wrong from the subject's subjective point of view. 'Law breaker' includes Xtian Jesus, no?
'Sinner' is entirely an abstraction. A murderer may be defending himself, most are.

There's no real relatedness to evil in your examples. I think a better example may be the 'vulture' investor who buys discounted 3rd world debt, and then bribes the 3rd world dictator to agree to bankrupt his nation to pay back the full balance. In that example there's willful destruction of the well being of an entire countries people to sate personal greed. There's no self delusion, justification or brain damage to get in the way of the wrong.

I've known a kind of evil, but from perspective real evil comes forth from weakness, stupidity and blindness. A more interesting evil I found in sales, a kind of blinding greed. It escaped me, but I saw others empowered by it and grow rich.

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#48875 - 02/15/11 05:08 PM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: Kali]
Autodidact Offline
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Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 428
 Originally Posted By: Kali
Evil is an action with no justifiable cause.

I use the term evil abstractly, but in my essay barely got to the bones of it. I wrote it for fun anyways, it's not for a contest or class, so it's harder to get motivated to just write for writing's sake for me.


You have just defined your own essay as "evil".

Regarding your pseudo-definition: isn't "justifiable" a subjective judgment? Who gets to determine if something is "justified"? Is it all actions, or some subset? Who decides which subset? Is the judgment a strict dichotomy (good/evil), or is it a range?
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An nescis, mi fili, quantilla prudentia mundus regatur?

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#48886 - 02/15/11 07:00 PM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: Kali]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



If someone or something can be defined as "evil" or as "immoral" or as "unnatural" etc. then one has the excuse needed to take action against that which is defined as "evil" or "immoral" etc. in the form of exclusion or punitive measures, such as punishment or even violence and conquest.

If human history has taught anything, then it has taught that human beings create factions, parties, nations, communities etc. within which leaders and followers exist. These factions, parties, nations etc. war against one another in myriad forms for domination. The articulation of "evil" is a well used tactic in the struggle for control.

One should not ask: what does "evil" mean, but rather what effect does this word "evil" have in a particular context and for a particular faction. Or, what use does this word have at a given point in time.

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#48889 - 02/15/11 08:39 PM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: ]
paolo sette Offline
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Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
 Quote:
There's no real relatedness to evil in your examples.


 Quote:
I've known a kind of evil, but from perspective real evil comes forth from weakness, stupidity and blindness.


I would not under any circumstances have it understood that in what I have written above I am making any recommendation or offering any advice. But, when you begin to discuss Evilness I consider it my duty to show you where my entrance lies to that "longest of all roads" which leads to root-Evil, and the difficulties strewn on the path are amaurotic to you; whereas, the path has been trodden by individuals that stood steadfast as a beacon on a mountain. It would be a mistake to assume that Evil is to be met with anywhere and/or anyone (and you are included) below those heights.

For a complete experience of Evilness, there can be nothing smaller or cheaper than the whole (root-Evil). The significance of this can be understood by the consideration of the fact that consciousness is only a part of Evilness, and is never capable of completeness: for the indefinite expansion of root-Evil (unconsciousness) is needed. By your estimates, you can neither capture with your formulae nor exorcize Evil by means of your scientific dogmas as it is seen as inescapable destiny.

The attainment of completeness calls for use of the whole (root-Evil). Nothing less will do; hence, there can be no easy conditions, substitutions or compromise.

You drag forth the vocabulary of pathology that you condemn with "psychosis" or "anxiety" terminology; then, whisper about a creative mystery as you relate to psychopathology--- but, what can a person who is probably not a poet create? (Think about that.) By you flocking to the misunderstanding of modern times caused many people to call themselves "artists." (You would call them convicts.) As if "art" (breaking the law) had nothing at all to do with "ability" (it takes a person to engage in Evil acts).

If you have nothing to create, perhaps you create yourself (delusion).


p.s.-- I am a proponent of Evilness that has engaged pure, root-Evil.
_________________________
tathagata-svapratyatma-aryajnana-adhigama
666
[nig]-ge-na-da a-ba in-da-di nam-ti i-u-tu

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#49107 - 02/18/11 03:10 PM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: paolo sette]
Hegesias Offline
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If this post appears to be a little unfitting it is because I have been appreciating the level of intelligence and insight on this board and I was inspired rather than to argue against or attempt to add to the excellence already here. So these words may be slightly different to what was posted previous. I usually post more down to earth psychological text but as I said I was inspired by what I read here to put some of my understandings down about the topic.

Is deliberate murder evil? or is it something more complex that Sinister progressive persons can do to vitalise themselves, ridding their environment of burdensome, degenerate persons I refer to as Homo Nullus ('human without' pertaining to their lacking of Satanic/Sinister noble qualities). The simple fact remains that evil is something that can be seen from opposing paradigms in labrinthine complexity or to be neglected through ignorance. To those who are Sinister by nature, evil is the noble part of them, but for those who are the meek Homo Nullus. They will react with meek fear to those who are terrifying to them, by our Sinister nature, naming the Source of our inspiration 'evil'. A favourite thing for Homo Nullus to do is to associate their own grubby mundane perversions with the excellence of Satanism, with the Sinister nobility of cultured traditionalists. Torture of a deserving degenerate Homo Nullus for example, is something vitalising. The intrusion of absurd comical events into serious situations like torture is something humorous, stimulating in an esoteric way, only the Sinister can understand. To be in esoteric resonance with nature, alive and as pure as innocence. The deserving victim on the other hand will be regarding the whole experience as quite evil and unpleasant. Presencing the Dark, improving the human stock is progressive and therefore only a good thing.

Chaos, or the abstractionless Source which the Sinister individual is part of, seeps into the settled universe being the antithesis of matter and is therefore only a good thing, dissolving the stasis of ego. In a simple way, the Dark Acausal seeps into and mixes with the false Light of Cosmos, synthesising what is 'Grey Evil'. As a pure manifestation of Chaos would be the absolute annihilation of every fractal dimension/universe at once, returning the phenomenal demiurgos world back to the state of primordial nothing, which is upon entering the event horizon of Death, blanketing the phenomenal demiurgos universe in absolute timeless darkness. The incorporeal Chaos (which is part of the Sinister individual) invades and unmanifests corporeal opposites; the emergence from this dynamic process is the manifestation of new opposites strengthened and fulfilled by the destruction of the old. The dynamic, wild, lawless, unmanifest nature of the Dark Acausal is in direct opposition to the stasis of the settled corporeal universe, so this is only a good thing. The primal Satanist may bring about disruption, anarchistic causal change, He rejects the orders, instructions, suggestions of others—rejecting morality, rejecting the unwanted safety/burden of equality—uniting natural selection with Dark transcendentalism. The primal Satanist is beyond slave morality as his primal nature never involves him with submission to anyone or anything, he will cultivate what is Dark empathy in esoteric resonance with other beings, nature and the cosmos. Being exposed to danger, violence, is not unpleasant to a Sinister individual, but rather it is stimulating and natural to his individuation process. We destroy to re-rebuild and this will be regarded as 'Evil' by the Homo Nullus who seek comfort, stagnation, in orderly stasis because they lack the inspiration, the courage to be Sinister in real life. Homo Nullus perpetuate their numbing monotonous absurdity, hideously insipid, inane, non comparable to the magnificence and complexity of the Sinister.
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#49242 - 02/20/11 04:34 PM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: Hegesias]
paolo sette Offline
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Registered: 12/12/08
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 Quote:
We destroy to re-rebuild and this will be regarded as 'Evil' by the Homo Nullus who seek comfort, stagnation, in orderly stasis because they lack the inspiration, the courage to be Sinister in real life. Homo Nullus perpetuate their numbing monotonous absurdity, hideously insipid, inane, non comparable to the magnificence and complexity of the Sinister.


Taken basically, Evilness is a dialectic relationship between people. To begin with, it is a discussion between two whole Selfs, and wisdom is understood as a tool. The goal is transformation: an indeterminable change of which is the complete disappearance of good for Evil. No efforts on the part of another may force the experience. The most one can do is to make easy the path of the Evil seeker towards the attainment of an attitude which will oppose "the least resistance" (goodness) to a descisive experience. As if Knowledge plays no-small part in the procedure, this is equivalent to the importance of the atmosphere for Evilness. Evil can only exist on the basis of an Evil culture, and this is its premise. You cannot destroy a rationalist intellect that was never present. An Evil adept (Homo Nullis) is not the outcome of ignorance and lack of culture.

Thus, the tasks of Evilness are refulgently varied, and the individual phases of the long process should be expected to encounter mostly with opposition.

666
_________________________
tathagata-svapratyatma-aryajnana-adhigama
666
[nig]-ge-na-da a-ba in-da-di nam-ti i-u-tu

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#49257 - 02/20/11 07:11 PM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: paolo sette]
EYEHATEGOD Offline
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Registered: 02/15/11
Posts: 7
watch "a clockwork orange," it touches a bit on this topic. however it isn't presented so much as the necessity of evil for evolution, but is instead presented more in the fashion of "we have this violence in us, but what do we do with it now?"
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#49263 - 02/20/11 10:49 PM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: EYEHATEGOD]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
If we talk about 'Evil', we can see it as a moral objection or a amoral assertion, in doing this we are stuck inside a box that is totally alien to the naturalistic essence of evil that we could talk about as being the assertion of violence or the meek fear response to violence depending on which angle of the entity we are assuming. Likewise we could talk about evil as a opposite/ alien to, the antithesis of what is good and vice versa depending on what angle we are assuming.

There must be another word for 'Satanists' to call 'Satanism' and 'Evil' and this ought to be simply the word 'Nature', because what we can come to understand is that something within us who are Sinister cannot be consigned to the limited media of man made words or any other abstraction of communication except to recognise that Nature itself is abstractionless and that one may learn to move over and through all abstractions/ opposites without friction, to learn to become change, evolution. The emergence of the Dark within us does not need to be debated but simply to be recognised as something that is very real and necessary, that this blackest of inspirations whether the Source is from within or from the external is not important, the importance is that we know this force, this presence empowers us to take revenge, to dominate, that which catalyse, feeds and perpetuates Dark intellectual activity, it is our Will, our Desire.

Is his Nature Evil or does his Nature have no opposite? To the Satanist this is the absolute Darkness where enlightenment is found and where all of his thoughts, ideas, feelings, perceptions, come from, behind all of his conscious reflections, his Nature is the formless Dark but sobering and stark in Nature. The only conditions from which absolute new can emerge are from absolute nothingness.

How does this pertain to evolution? look at your accomplishments evil one. Look at the actuality which has emerged from your unmanifest potential. Are you evil or are you simply the emergence of Nature? Look inside, it's Dark in there isn't it.
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#49311 - 02/21/11 06:32 PM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: Hegesias]
paolo sette Offline
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Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
 Quote:
Are you evil or are you simply the emergence of Nature?


By your statement, it is seen as based on the supposition of "causes" and "effects" which is enveloping and is not identical with a thing that is enveloped by it. For instance, Darkness is not identical with any thing that is enveloped by it. The refutation of this is twofold: the assertion that the enveloping thing cannot be identical with the thing enveloped means that either it cannot be identical as to its appearance in space, or not identical as to its cause.

When milk and water are mixed, water which is enveloped by milk is perceived as one and the same as milk. This cannot be the case, if the thing that envelops must be different from the thing that is enveloped. The base of this example: The different effects in one and the same "cause" are seperated from each other.

Evilness is Negation or Privation.

Negation is of two sorts: universal and mutual. Universal negation understands three species: antecedent, emergent and absolute. Antecedent Privation is present Negation of that which at a future time will be. Emergent Negation is destruction or annhilation of an effect. Absolute Negation extends through all times: past, present and future. Mutual Privation is difference.

Ciao.
_________________________
tathagata-svapratyatma-aryajnana-adhigama
666
[nig]-ge-na-da a-ba in-da-di nam-ti i-u-tu

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#55014 - 05/24/11 10:49 AM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: paolo sette]
Kali Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 33
I enjoyed reading the input of others. I'm puzzling over a few things, and I admit there is a lot here to think about. Since I last posted this, I have already changed quite a bit. I think one part that changed is the idea of punishment which is something people bring upon themselves by doing things to punish. It's cause and effect. Sometimes it's better to leave things where they are, and not to inflict punishment for no reason. Why punish yourself without a reason, or allow yourself to be punished by others? When you do something out of desire, the true punishment comes from the effects of your actions. The universe is capable of a lot. But there are other reasons for punishment, sometimes we get punished to warn us of what we're capable of and how our actions could lead to certain events which should not be true. To allow others to manipulate us is wrong, but to know the true source of manipulation is also important. Certain evil and power arise out of our actions and beliefs, but you can't ignore the truth when it's right in front of you. Evil does exist, in a sense, as the result of certain actions...ignorance simply perpetuates the destructive forces of nature...so by ignoring humanity and the importance of life is a wrongdoing. To run away from what matters most is also wrong, but there is a fact that was brought up: diversity. Also, you can not change someone else. You can only change yourself. You can do the best you can to communicate what you believe and try to express, but no one can change another...the only one who can change is the individual and they are capable of making those choices. I think evil is a metaphor for the truth, and a complex puzzle that needs understanding. Never fear what you don't yet understand, embrace it with the best of your knowledge.
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#55070 - 05/25/11 07:42 PM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: Kali]
paolo sette Offline
member


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
 Originally Posted By: Kali
...I'm puzzling over a few things, and I admit there is a lot here to think about...


Here's another perspective:

Unlike plants and lower-form animals, human beings have Self-consciousness and free Will. These characteristics unique to humans have both a bright and Dark aspect for their lives. The bright aspect lies in the fact that humans can use their endowments to shape the future, develop science and technology, establish social-economic-political organizations, etc. As a thinking animal, they can create human culture and civilization.

As for the Dark aspect, humans have become seperated from their original Naturalness whereas plants and lower-form animals live just as they are without reflection. Seperated from their original Naturalness, humans have become Self-centered, alienating themselves from others and even from themselves.
Self-centeredness and Self-estrangement are what cause suffering in all aspects of their lives.

The Dark requires one "to handle with care". If you fail to give proper and adequate attention to the Dark aspect of humans, you cannot appropriately develop its other aspects in the greater context of human existence.

Let the fuckers who mishandle the Dark suffer the multitudinous torments for an eviternity.

Shiva: the-Destroyer
_________________________
tathagata-svapratyatma-aryajnana-adhigama
666
[nig]-ge-na-da a-ba in-da-di nam-ti i-u-tu

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#55072 - 05/25/11 11:47 PM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: Kali]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"The universe is capable of a lot."

Not in any way that make it seem to be conscience entity deciding things like who lives and dies.

"But there are other reasons for punishment, sometimes we get punished to warn us of what we're capable of and how our actions could lead to certain events which should not be true."

The Universe doesn't punish us. There is no such thing as karma. You punish yourself with thoughts of guilt, fear, and weakness.

"so by ignoring humanity and the importance of life is a wrongdoing."

Why? What specific thing makes it wrong?
So is abortion wrong for a rape victim following your train of thought?

"Never fear what you don't yet understand, embrace it with the best of your knowledge."

I see, so you think its okay to embrace serial killers, terrorists, and child molesters, as long as you don't understand them. So then after you hang out with them, you can fear them....

Is that the point you were trying to make?

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#55090 - 05/27/11 05:10 AM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: paolo sette]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
 Originally Posted By: paolo sette


As for the Dark aspect, humans have become seperated from their original Naturalness whereas plants and lower-form animals live just as they are without reflection.


Why do humans always take it upon themselves to project upon plants and other animals judgements of how they experience or think? You only have knowledge of what it is like to be human, so you can only speak for humanity. Of plants and other animals, you have no knowledge of their experience and therefore are ignorant of their nature. Your judgement of plants and lower-form animals could be wrong, you judge only from your human outlook, and are ignorant of the experience of those objects that you judge.
_________________________
Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

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#55114 - 05/27/11 09:14 PM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: mabon2010]
paolo sette Offline
member


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
 Originally Posted By: mabon2010
Your judgement of plants and lower-form animals could be wrong, you judge only from your human outlook, and are ignorant of the experience of those objects that you judge.


Beautiful.

Every happening is a picture and an imagination. Were this not so, there could be no consciousness and no phenomenality of occurrence. The imagination itself is a psychic occurrence, and whether Knowledge is considered "real" or "imaginary" is immaterial. The person that has Knowledge thinks that they are enlightened. What others think about it can determine nothing for that person with regards to experience.

Plants and lower-form animals fail to rationalize intellectually.

Beware of falling into travails of unknown terrors and dangers. Don't be swept away by deluding mirages and labyrinthine mazes. The worst of all circumstances: the abysmal loneliness of oneself that remains solitary. If one follows this type of thinking, one will soon get the idea what it means to "tear open those doors".

Evil is necessary. I am One who wields it.

Ciao.
_________________________
tathagata-svapratyatma-aryajnana-adhigama
666
[nig]-ge-na-da a-ba in-da-di nam-ti i-u-tu

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#55120 - 05/28/11 03:43 AM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: paolo sette]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Some conjecture.

I can affirm Evil as an abstraction of the will to power and levels of it's expression in Nature. As man feels he is separate from Nature he feels the stimulation of power accumulating as something profound because it is so rare in this false civilisation man has created. Even the most Evil expressions within the confines of civilisation will be dregs of what our Nature is capable of.

Evil under any guise, primitive or intellectual, sophisticated or otherwise systematic, is only a subjective bloating of a faculty of Nature. A wolf knows greater as he tears the groins from his mortified prey, bathing him in warm blood and the animals fear.

Man does not hunt daily and is unable to bathe in the blood and fear of his prey, so man has become a failed "improvement" grateful and hubris about all manner of subordinate accumulations of power, he is without the stimulation Nature intended, and therefore bloats subjecture to be tantalised by the offerings of a pitiless hylic creation called civilisation.

Evil is necessary for evolution because if we look at Evil as a subjective branch of the will to power, Evil is simply man's ability to intellectualise the urge to kill and break it down into lesser stimulations— much too vulgar a display of power is often what so called Evil people are tantalised by.

I'd not equate a mature Evil to sadism because to be sadistic one relies on empathic recognition of the other beings perceived trauma. I feel a purified evil would be indifferent to shambling humans— they are as numb as clay, rubbish for incineration.

Without the desire for power and to dominate man would move toward apathy and meekness resulting in sexual inactivity and death of species.
_________________________


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#55122 - 05/28/11 09:18 AM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: Hegesias]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1638
Loc: Orlando, FL
Mankind and civilization are something of a biotic oddity. Although we have 'naturally' gravitated towards the construction of a globalized empire characterized by mass conformity and technological opulence, we are generally not satisfied with modern society because the majority of our evolutionary development has been spent in hunter-gatherer groups and primitive pastoral societies.

Homo Sapiens finds himself trapped in a purgatory of his own doing-- he is neither here nor there, lacking the inclination to stay within his ordained environment, as well as the urges and instincts necessary to live to his fullest potential in his current setting.

Anything that threatens this illusory civilization is fundamentally evil, because the complacent modern mind instantly rebels against any sort of stimuli that upsets its fragile balance. This is why the confrontation of evil is necessary to "evolve", or rather, discover one's own personal nature, because it has been stifled by years of restrictive conditioning. I would not call it a "will to power" in a strictly Nietzschean sense, but rather an extension of the desire to be in control of one's own mind, body, and soul as far as nature allows.

"Nature is Satan's Church"
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#55190 - 05/29/11 07:01 PM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: Hegesias]
paolo sette Offline
member


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
 Originally Posted By: Hegesias
Evil is necessary for evolution because if we look at Evil as a subjective branch of the will to power, Evil is simply man's ability to intellectualise the urge to kill and break it down into lesser stimulations— much too vulgar a display of power is often what so called Evil people are tantalised by.


Why are you apparently reluctant to associate the experience of the Self with God? A Christian or theist would say.

This question touches upon one of the most seperating rubrics between Satanists and most Western, organized religions. Rede or advice: Do not open up dialogue between the theistic devotees whom cannot grasp the underlying, basal thought patterns of a Satanist.

Fundamentally speaking, Satanism considers the notion of One Absolute God who is other than ourselves to be inadequate. Satanists do not accept the idea of the divine as the sole foundation underlying the universe, and they realize the core of each individual: the Self. The otherness of a personal God that implies the objectification of the Ultimate is not acceptable to Satanists to which the inner-core Self is crucial.

There isn't any form of a God playing any role with my Life. I have eliminated the thinking that there is something tangible, horizontally higher to my Self: I have slain God completely. I answer to no God or anything other than myself. The abrupt awakening to the abscence of divinity has defined me according to Nietzschean Nihilism as "the Over Man".

I embrace heterodoxy and anti-morality and refute the "cause-effect" and the "I-Thou" relationships which defines me as the-Evil-One. Realization of this has substantiated proofs beyond doubts that when I reach moribund or Die or wady, I will transform from a corporeal human body with senses, Will and Mind into Nothing or Void. Let colossal Death overtake my total existence, thus, transforming me into Death or the Destroyer or the-Evil-One.

I will no mercy on total existence.

Shiva
_________________________
tathagata-svapratyatma-aryajnana-adhigama
666
[nig]-ge-na-da a-ba in-da-di nam-ti i-u-tu

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#62883 - 12/24/11 12:21 AM Re: The Necessity of Evil for Evolution [Re: Kali]
TwIzT Offline
member


Registered: 12/21/11
Posts: 127
 Originally Posted By: Kali

My parents hospitalized me, and although it was probably necessary, I was not able to handle the abuse of staff members at this hospital. I was isolated for not cooperating, they didn’t follow any procedure, and it was all to make me compliant with a system I felt was flawed. I believed I was strong enough to overcome my schizophrenia. But now, looking back, I believe it was probably the best thing for me despite the abuses. I was able to get back on my feet, and struggle to regain my sense of self. I learned to adapt, as the medication I found helped me. It balanced me in such a way that I could bring clarity and retrospection to my irrational fears. It took time, though.
I know there are some people who think that mental illness is just a sickness, but despite the truth about brain imbalances, there is a social context that the public needs to be aware of on a fundamental level. The basic social context is that hospitals should not be places where abuses can happen, it should not be a system made for compliance but a hospital needs to be a place to treat someone’s emotional and psychological hurts in many ways.

Is madness evil? Madness is a part of the human condition, and there-fore an aspect of survival. I don't consider it evil in the sense, although I'm not certain that it isn't necessary. How can a complete destruction of the mind, or the nuclear bomb dropped on a third world country ever be good? It’s not good, but it teaches humans to use their hands and their minds to find alternatives. When faced with an evil such as war, those who think with their hearts will follow them toward a peaceful better world. Those with hands will build towers not on sand, and those with a voice will sing. Evil is an abstract notion that reveals the innermost core of the individual, and also the eternal, the changing, the stagnant, and the dark.

Coming terms with madness has helped shed light on the true nature of humanity. If you consciously choose to do something evil, you are only shedding illumination of the rottenness within you. A person who commits a crime should be punished, not just in a moral sense, but also helped in a cultural sense.


Insanity is majority rule. The odd or insane are what they are because the "Normal" are only "Normal" because they have majority rule. It is a failing system because of this, if the majority were odd then the insane would become normal and the sane would become odd. If there was such thing as insane it would be a ireversible process. I believe that insanity exists for the sole reason to control the populace to become "Normal".

Evil and Good is all perception therefore the sane term of good is everything that we live in today and the sane term for evil is everything that is the opposite of what they wish to achieve.
_________________________
We are all the lab mice bred for one purpose to run the wheel to power america. Cheeze controls us.

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