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#4877 - 03/06/08 12:52 PM The First Satanic Church
Jeseth Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/24/08
Posts: 91
Loc: California
I'm curious, but is anyone here a member of The First Satanic Church?
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"Life is of no value but as it brings us gratifications."
— Thomas Jefferson

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#4886 - 03/06/08 04:15 PM Re: The First Satanic Church [Re: Jeseth]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I doubt anyone who is would admit it here. The First Satanic Church can be quite a stigma in many situations, it could make people less empolyable, remove social standing amungst colleagues, cause friction in their neighbourhood and make them appear untrustworthy in their local community. Unless someone has complete anonymity on this site it would be foolish for them to release that information on a public forum

There is a reason the Church refuses to give out members names and details.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#4887 - 03/06/08 04:55 PM Re: The First Satanic Church [Re: TornadoCreator]
Stag Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/20/07
Posts: 84
Careful who you're bad-mouthing there TC.

Notice anything familiar about the banner at the bottom? \:\)

Perhaps you meant the First Church of Satan? It's confusing, I know.

Stag


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#4889 - 03/06/08 05:56 PM Re: The First Satanic Church [Re: Stag]
Jeseth Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/24/08
Posts: 91
Loc: California
I didn't think TC was badmouthing them...

Well, if anyone here is a member of The First Satanic Church, and doesn't mind answering a few of my questions privately, feel free to send me a PM. I was just curious as to what the benefits of joining such an organization were. People wouldn't join groups if there wasn't some kind of benefit to doing it, right?
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"Life is of no value but as it brings us gratifications."
— Thomas Jefferson

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#4909 - 03/06/08 11:37 PM Re: The First Satanic Church [Re: Jeseth]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
For me, I see no benefit in joining any religious organisation. I like to try to keep my religious affiliations to a minimum and find no benefit in joining any organisation that is represented by a religious icon. In my opinion, The First Satanic Church is the closest organisation currently active dedicated to keeping LaVey's legacy alive, whereas the Church of Satan are more content in keeping the legacy of Satanism alive.
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#5049 - 03/08/08 11:12 PM Re: The First Satanic Church [Re: Stag]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
 Originally Posted By: Stag
Careful who you're bad-mouthing there TC.

Notice anything familiar about the banner at the bottom? \:\)

Perhaps you meant the First Church of Satan? It's confusing, I know.

Stag


No, I believe I ment everything I said. The First Satanic Church is a stigma in modern society. Openly tying your username, website or e-mail address to a church with "Satanic" in the title can cause problems in society. If you can't see the logic in this perhaps you should back up a little and look again.

Secondly, I didn't bad mouth anyone, it was a matter-of-fact statement which happens to be quite true.

Lastly, if I had bad-mouthed them, them having an advert for this forum on the front page wouldn't make me retract my statements. My opinions are not to be bought or sold. I will have them reguardless of advertising for or by the forum. I am a strict believer in free speach.
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#5083 - 03/09/08 08:09 AM Re: The First Satanic Church [Re: TornadoCreator]
Stag Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/20/07
Posts: 84
My mistake. I thought you were being sarcastic in referring to membership of the FSC as particularly stigmatic, rather than Satanic churches in general.

By posting on this public forum you've already tied yourself to Satanism in one form or another. Coming out as a member of a particular church hardly seems that much worse -- hence my misunderstanding.

Stag


Edited by Stag (03/09/08 08:13 AM)

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#5088 - 03/09/08 09:40 AM Re: The First Satanic Church [Re: Stag]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
TC is dead right. As Satanism remains a skeptical word and religion to the general populace, it is much more beneficial and safer to keep your affiliations and associations with Satanic organisations hidden from the general public. In most cases, making such a statement of affiliation can be counter-productive with your career, family life, etc.
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"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - José Narosky

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#5091 - 03/09/08 11:13 AM Re: The First Satanic Church [Re: DaVinci]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I suppose you have a point there Stag however we have many members who claim they are here to "gain perspective" and "have healthy debate". It's remarkably easy to join in with a community without showing you're affiliation with it. Although I suppose being a member of this forum itself may have the same issues about it than admitting any affiliation to any church. It's still something to be cautious about though.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#5095 - 03/09/08 12:16 PM Re: The First Satanic Church [Re: Stag]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
 Originally Posted By: Stag
By posting on this public forum you've already tied yourself to Satanism in one form or another.

Funny I brought this up recently... It amazes me how many feel safe, secure, and hidden so to say... Sitting here broadcasting their personal thoughts on the internet for all to read...

Ah good old common sense that is what many are lacking...

------------------------------------------------

On topic:

 Originally Posted By: Jeseth
I was just curious as to what the benefits of joining such an organization were. People wouldn't join groups if there wasn't some kind of benefit to doing it, right?


As far as a church or group goes what could you gain from joining any church or group? Socialization with like minded individuals, Christmas and Halloween fairs/parties, etc... You will not get extra Satan points or arcane powers...

Some people need dogma and ritual, some need to flock...

Whatever makes "YOU" happy...

~T~
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#5096 - 03/09/08 12:40 PM Re: The First Satanic Church [Re: TornadoCreator]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
It's remarkably easy to join in with a community without showing you're affiliation with it. Although I suppose being a member of this forum itself may have the same issues about it than admitting any affiliation to any church. It's still something to be cautious about though.

Where some see caution others see fear, fear of the unknown is a tool of ignorance... Know you are tied to this site, which is tied to a satanic church, which in turn puts your name on someone’s list...

There now that you are educated there is no reason to fear for you have already made your move… Ignorance to reality is hardly a good thing…

Another form of ignorance is to project your thoughts and insecurities on others… I am sure there are a few here that would freely talk of any church they were members of… Without your projected fear and insecurity…

Dare I make an educated guess? I say that an out of work hippy, that is afraid to conform enough to cut their hair to get a job and survive, that you are probably not considered a serious threat to anyone… Outside the welfare system that is…

Have a nice day…

~T~
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We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#5100 - 03/09/08 01:17 PM Re: The First Satanic Church [Re: ta2zz]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
 Originally Posted By: ta2zz

Dare I make an educated guess? I say that an out of work hippy, that is afraid to conform enough to cut their hair to get a job and survive, that you are probably not considered a serious threat to anyone… Outside the welfare system that is…

Have a nice day…

~T~


A personal attack ta2zz, surely you're above that are you not. Becides your information is out of date. I've recently joined the British Territorial Army, so out of work hippy is a little off mark really. Not that it matters, I feel no need to explain myself nor a need to conform, I'm doing this simply because I have a spare few minutes. If I decide I would rather not cut my hair and risk not having a job that is because I am happier with my hair long than I am in a job that dictates how I style my own hair.

You mentioned ignorance. Isn't it just as ignorant to assume that talking on a forum with only aproximately 100 active members would have the same effect on your family life, career and other social situations as being a member of a Church with thousands of members that has been a subject of the news on multiple occations. It wouldn't and you know it.

Saying that, I beleive this is a moot point anyway now. I've said how I didn't think anyone would want to outright say they are a member of the church due to it influencing other areas of their life negatively, if they feel otherwise they can feel free to prove me wrong. It's merely an idle opinion, nothing to get so worked up over.
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#5154 - 03/09/08 10:57 PM ~_^ [Re: ta2zz]
Jeseth Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/24/08
Posts: 91
Loc: California
 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
As far as a church or group goes what could you gain from joining any church or group? Socialization with like minded individuals, Christmas and Halloween fairs/parties, etc...

Those sounds like a fairly decent benefits. I'll pass on the Satan points and arcane powers, though. ~_^
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"Life is of no value but as it brings us gratifications."
— Thomas Jefferson

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#5155 - 03/09/08 11:03 PM Re: ~_^ [Re: Jeseth]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I won't I want the Satan points and arcane power dammit. I want to be able to make things catch fire by the power of my mind.

But that aside. Honestly if people find that social circle to be worth risking what they currently have in standing with most of society I say good for them, and I don't mean that sarcastically. People who can actually drop the masses for the chance to socialise with like minded people without it having an impact on them they don't consider to be acceptable are a subject of envy for me, I must admit.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#5173 - 03/10/08 02:12 AM Re: The First Satanic Church [Re: ta2zz]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1737
Loc: New York
Ta2zz made some excellent points, in regards to why it might not be advisable for some, to be tied to a publicly available, controversial website, and or organization, and in certain situations, I agree.

However, there is, in my opinion a flip side to it. It is only my opinion, and applies to me alone, but I would like to share, why I do not concern myself with who reads my posts here, or on any of the other website’s where I openly post my brain farts.

Many years ago, I knew a very wealthy, powerful, and successful gentleman. People who knew him treated him with the greatest respect. From what I have seen, I assumed that he was beyond anyone’s power.
One evening while he took myself, and several of his other friends out to dinner, somehow the topic of prostitution came up.
Several people put their two cents in, expressing how degrading that profession is, and their negative views of people who sell themselves in that way.

Once everyone had their say, he leaned back, and stated “Well, it just so happens, that I’m a big whore myself, and so are most of you. We all sell ourselves in one way or another. At times I kiss ass, and do things that I do not respect myself for, but in order to get funding for many of my projects, I do what I have to.”

Over the years, I have come to understand his view. Being in the health field, I also sell myself, hold my tongue (although not as often as most would like), do things that I do not want to, and even things that make me lose some self respect. As most prostitutes, I do it for money.
Frankly, I have often thought, that true prostitution would be preferable, because it is open and honest, and there is no question as to why the prostitute is doing what she does, and once the transaction is completed, everyone goes their separate ways. Unlike in the business world, where people are entwined in continuous whoredom, pretending to believe things which they do not, acting a certain way, saying “the right things,” and so on, to be accepted by the group which they are associated with.

With that said, the question for me is, how much of myself am I willing to sell for a few dollars, and where do I draw the line. This is a personal issue, and everyone has to make their own decision according to their own ideals.

As for me, I draw the line, at my personal time. When I am at home, on my own computer, I will express myself anyway that I feel fit, without hiding my identity. However, I attempt to do so with the realization, that one day, these things might come back to bite me in the butt, so with some self preservation in mind, I do censor myself up to a point. “Responsibility to the responsible.”

Even at work, I will only go along so far with the “program.” I treat people such as priests and people of “faith” for example, with courtesy, but will not pretend to respect their beliefs. However, I will likely not express my views on the matter, unless asked. Once I am asked, then I will not lie, but I will continue to be courteous.

I also have to keep in mind, that I did sign an agreement with the state which employs me, that I will not act in a way, which would tarnish its reputation, since some people in the community might wrongly believe that I represent said state in some way; but again, there are limits to how much of myself I am willing to sell.

I am also not very concerned of what people who might see me on here think, because my personal reputation precedes me, in regards to people who actually matter.
What I mean is, that those people who know me in person, will realize if they have any common sense at all, what kind of person I am in real life, and not only what might be assumed about a person who joins a site such as this one.

None of the patients whom I have taken care of over the years, could possibly see me in a negative light by finding me here, because I have only received positive feed back from them, and in many cases they have grown to trust me to a point that is beyond the relationship of average people, possibly with the exception of immediate family members.

Many times I have sat with dying patients, whom I believed wanted someone by their bedside, until they passed on, without charging for my time, because their family members for what ever reason were not available.

I never did this for any recognition or even appreciation, but instead because of natural human compassion, without giving two shits about what deity might approve, disapprove, or if anyone was aware that I was doing it. I never concern myself with getting too close or personal with patients, which medical professionals are often warned against. The point which I am attempting to make, is that I am very comfortable with who I am, and only I alone know all of the positive, as well as the negative, things about me, and the only person who’s judgement of my character truly matters, is mine, and mine alone.

Furthermore, due to the nature of my work, I have had my background, psychological health, and past investigated professionally, including by the FBI, in order to assure my character, so that any professional organization which I am affiliated with would have a hard time finding any legitimate reason to black list me, merely for my views. This is not to say that it could definitely not happen, but again, it is a chance which I am willing to take, because as I have stated, am only willing to sell just so much of myself.

It is always possible, that there might be some “shit stirrers” out there, who’s only goal in life, is to give validation to their meaningless existence, by pointing fingers at people who do not fit the typical mold of community standards, and could make my life difficult because of my affiliations. However, I am not willing to give them so much power over me, that I will hide my identity for the reasons of safety and financial security.

These are the reasons why I am willing to show my real image, and MOST of my opinions here, although I can certainly understand those people, who for what ever reason feel that it is in their best interest not to do so.
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