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#5177 - 03/10/08 04:04 AM Re: The First Satanic Church [Re: Asmedious]
hellbent666
Unregistered



I'll pretty much tell anyone willing to listen who I am and what I believe in but only to a certain extent. I wanted to send my boss a friend request on my space but I thought about how much religious stuff falls out of his wifes mouth and I decided that financially and professionally (can a dishwasher even use that term "professionally") it would be a bad idea. I'm also making assumptions in this area too, I'm assuming that since his wife says Christian things that he is Christian as well which might actually be pretty far from the truth. On occasion I will run into people that know a little bit about Satanism or are Satanists themselves but I don't think the people I work for should really know that much about me. My co-workers know and one even surprised me with how much he knew on the topic of Satanism. Few and far between.

I really don't think any of us really have anything to worry about short of CoS members finding out that one of their members was also a member of this forum as that would be grounds for automatic dismissal from the CoS. I really don't think that too many people care that much to track down members of some internet forum.

Now if you run around your town screaming that you are a satanist to anyone that has ears then you are running a far greater risk to your personal well being and safety and character. Complete strangers don't need to know that you are a Satanist, that is your bidness. And honestly, besides the occasional ass kicking, who really cares if you are a satanist at all? Your peers might but random strangers don't give 2 shits a flying fuck who or what you are. One of the keys to lesser magic is the ability to keep your mouth shut when it will ultimately benefit you.

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#5183 - 03/10/08 05:19 AM Re: The First Satanic Church [Re: ]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
It's rather depressing that the Church of Satan would actually kick people out for being a member of a forum on the internet specifically for the Satanist community. I sincerely hope that isn't true. It's upsetting really that the Church of Satan and the First Satanic Church are even seperate entities. It defies what Satanism is to treat it like a bloody religion, with sects and internal disputes.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#5193 - 03/10/08 12:23 PM Re: The First Satanic Church [Re: TornadoCreator]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
It's rather depressing that the Church Of Satan would actually kick people out for being a member of a forum on the internet specifically for the Satanist community. I sincerely hope that isn't true. It's upsetting really that the Church Of Satan and the First Satanic Church are even seperate entities. It defies what Satanism is to treat it like a bloody religion, with sects and internal disputes.

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
Lastly, since when did Satanism become more than a philosophy and a basic way of life. You're turning it into another stupid religion here.

Only take this as personal as you need to... While I myself agree with your ideas, you show more and more of your ignorance towards Satanic thought, presence, practice, and general human behavior every day... Please do not confuse ignorance with stupidity...

Perhaps a few extra minutes a day could be spent researching such things...

In all sincerity
~ta2zz~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#5211 - 03/10/08 03:13 PM Re: The First Satanic Church [Re: ta2zz]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I don't concern myself with inter-Church politics as it doesn't affect me. I find it infuriating to learn of politics unless I can have some affect of them.

It's not a matter of ignorance as more simple opinion. The questions are in many ways rhetorical. I know what Satanism is and how the organisations surrounding it act, what they stand for, etc. The problem I have really is that it shouldn't be like this. I don't want to be dragged into a religious penis measuring contest, it's not important enough for me. I live a Satanist lifestyle, this is all that links me to Satanism. It works for me and makes me happy, for others is doesn't and I can understand that however isn't this supposed to be the ultimate goal of Satanism. Living a happy life, getting the most out of life, improving everything you have as this is the one and only chance you have. Why waste it on petty inter-quasi-religious arguments.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#6857 - 03/31/08 04:09 PM Re: The First Satanic Church [Re: TornadoCreator]
Lusafyr Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/29/08
Posts: 7
I am not sure where you get your information from, but there are CoS members in this forum and they have not been kicked out of the Church. I am not authorized to speak on behalf of the CoS but I can assure you that many of its members enjoy entering debates with other Satanists, members or not.

As far as the topic at hand is concerned, one of my reasons for joining this forum was to better understand the First Satanic Church and Karla LaVey's motivation behind founding a second Satanic organization. If there are any members of this group on this forum I would also enjoy the chance to find these things out.

Hail Satan!
_________________________
"Say unto thine own heart, "I am mine own redeemer.""
-Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#6933 - 04/01/08 03:38 AM Re: The First Satanic Church [Re: Lusafyr]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
 Originally Posted By: Lusafyr
I am not sure where you get your information from, but there are CoS members in this forum and they have not been kicked out of the Church.


It was suggested that it would happen earlier in the topic, I am quite relieved that the CoS isn't as overbearing as a few people have suggested if your post is something to go by.

As for Karla LaVey's reasoning in starting another Satanic organisation. It's simply disagreement. Although she and all Satanists have a similar overarching ideology people disagree on the fine details. However I feel these fine details should have been simply kept personal and not used to fragment Satanists. Satanism encourages people to be different and approach things in there own way. Why different sects would form is beyond me.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#6944 - 04/01/08 11:21 AM Re: The First Satanic Church [Re: TornadoCreator]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
Why different sects would form is beyond me.

Clearly...

At least you speak the truth...
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#6964 - 04/01/08 07:42 PM Re: The First Satanic Church [Re: Lusafyr]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"but there are CoS members in this forum and they have not been kicked out of the Church."

Are you sure? I mean really sure? Some of us, in the past were banned from that board because we posted here. I know I had an issue....

"I am not authorized to speak on behalf of the CoS but I can assure you that many of its members enjoy entering debates with other Satanists, members or not."

I think you speak too kindly of others that you do not know.

The information is avaliable on the internet as to why seperate groups were formed. DO some research, write a letter, read some old posts...

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#7263 - 04/05/08 06:17 PM Re: The First Satanic Church [Re: Morgan]
Lusafyr Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/29/08
Posts: 7
"I think you speak too kindly of others that you do not know."

Just because I do not have a red card or a title does not mean I do not associate with the CoS. I have many, many people I am proud to call friends who just so happen to have those things in he CoS. Believe it or not the CoS also believes that one does not have to join to be a Satanist. It shocks me how little some people actually know about this organization that they so readily speak out against.
_________________________
"Say unto thine own heart, "I am mine own redeemer.""
-Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#7264 - 04/05/08 06:28 PM Re: The First Satanic Church [Re: Lusafyr]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Actually, I speak from knowledge and experience.

I still have friends in the CoS too, so what, big deal...

You still have no idea about stuff that happened, and I bet didnt even bother to look into the history of the split that you so first questioned.

Btw, I have had experiences with the CoS online, and offline, so I am not talking out of my ass.

Morg

btw, do you know any in real life? or are they all just online??
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#7266 - 04/05/08 06:34 PM Re: The First Satanic Church [Re: Lusafyr]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: Lusafyr
"I think you speak too kindly of others that you do not know."

Just because I do not have a red card or a title does not mean I do not associate with the CoS. I have many, many people I am proud to call friends who just so happen to have those things in he CoS. Believe it or not the CoS also believes that one does not have to join to be a Satanist. It shocks me how little some people actually know about this organization that they so readily speak out against.


I've always wondered why a religion that tries so hard to disassociate itself from Christianity; one that tries so hard to get people to see that it is a genuine religion and not a group of bovines reacting to Christianity; a religion that claims to liberate its subscribers... would instead of taking a step forward, take one back and form a Church and institute a Priesthood. One would think that each individual Satanists is intelligent and mature enough to think for himself/herself to be their own priest or priestess. With a church, there will always be church politics. With a church there arises a segregation or "Us & Them" mentality, which eventually fracture Satanism into many factions and sects. With a Church, the religion also becomes a business, selling red paper membership card for profit.

I must admit, I do know very little about the CoS. But this is what I know. Is there more?

~Kayla


Edited by LUCIFERIFIC (04/05/08 06:35 PM)
_________________________
Lux Ex Tenebris
Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


~~352~~


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#7275 - 04/05/08 10:48 PM Re: The First Satanic Church [Re: Lusafyr]
Xutech Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/18/08
Posts: 34
Loc: Australia
 Originally Posted By: Lusafyr
"I think you speak too kindly of others that you do not know."

Just because I do not have a red card or a title does not mean I do not associate with the CoS. I have many, many people I am proud to call friends who just so happen to have those things in he CoS. Believe it or not the CoS also believes that one does not have to join to be a Satanist. It shocks me how little some people actually know about this organization that they so readily speak out against.


CoS very clearly states in easily purchased literature and other forms of media that it DOES require members to have a red card. It also very clearly states that anything outside the CoS that claims to be Satanic is in error.

If you're going to wax lyrical on the subject, (or at least your member friends behalf) at least have enough respect for the basic tenents of that society to PAY for your opinion.

In other words, put your money where your mouth is, and then tell us based on YOUR experience how tolerant they are.

"I think you speak too kindly of others that you do not know."

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#7968 - 04/19/08 09:10 AM Re: The First Satanic Church [Re: Xutech]
Lusafyr Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/29/08
Posts: 7
Yes, I have "real" friends in the CoS. I chose not to purchase a membership because I do not wish to contribute to the organization. I have no need to do so, I take Satanism and apply it to my life to better myself.

In response to Xutech, the CoS does clearly state that you must have a red card to claim membership, I never claimed membership. In addition, on their website it very clearly states that one does not have to be a member to be a Satanist but ORGANIZATIONS, CHURCHES, and so on who claim to be Satanic but do not associate with the CoS are liars. I do not believe that an online forum that is open to the public and will let anybody get on is something that is railed against in the CoS' Bunco Sheet.

I think that the CoS has the right to claim lordship as the only Church for Satanists as its founder was the man who codified Satanism. However, I have not taken the time to look into the other organizations with the exception of a few which were clearly not Satanic in any form other than imagery. I suppose that there are a few which are legitimately Satanic but this brings me back to, why would someone wish to form a Satanic organization that is separate and in many cases opposed to the original Satanic organization? I simply wanted to know this answer(it may very well be a good one, though I haven't seen one yet).

As far as the I am concerned the CoS(at this point) is the first, original, and most on point Satanic organization out there. It was founded by Anton LaVey who defined Satanism in an original way instead of taking the Judeo-Christian definition. I have much respect for the organization but I do not feel the need to join it until I feel that I could contribute to it in some way. No CoS member that I associate with (Thomas Thorn, Steven Johnson Leyba, Peter Gilmore, and others that I work with in my music and performance art) has ever accused me of being anything less than Satanic due to the fact I am not a member. People tend to forget that the CoS exists as a for profit organization and the spear head of Satanic philosophy.

I came to this forum attempting to understand some of these other organizations that claim the title of Satanism and made a passing comment about something I saw was being misunderstood. I have been attacked more by "fellow" non CoS members than I ever have been by the CoS itself. If there is a First Satanic Church member that is willing to correspond with me to answer these questions then I eagerly await the discussion, if not then I think it is time to let this conversation go.

Hail Satan!
_________________________
"Say unto thine own heart, "I am mine own redeemer.""
-Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#7972 - 04/19/08 11:25 AM Re: The First Satanic Church [Re: Lusafyr]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

Welcome to the real world,

 Originally Posted By: Lusafyr
I have been attacked more by "fellow" non CoS members than I ever have been by the CoS itself.

You poor person to be attacked so on a forum on the internet... Perhaps the CoS has a use for you, it is clear to them yet your use here is not so important...

 Originally Posted By: Lusafyr
why would someone wish to form a Satanic organization that is separate and in many cases opposed to the original Satanic organization? I simply wanted to know this answer(it may very well be a good one, though I haven't seen one yet).

It can be explained with one word… “Evolution”

 Originally Posted By: Lusafyr
People tend to forget that the CoS exists as a for profit organization and the spear head of Satanic philosophy.

Spearheading entertainment for the occult underground just like on 6-6-06? That is an achievement… To some…

All of which you speak churches and their fracturing then the first church saying that there is no other… Please look around outside a bit, you do not seem to have much of a grasp on human nature as far as religion goes…

Besides that one should be able to see that Anton LaVey was nothing but a shepherd of black sheep selling exactly what he spoke out against… With that in mind to me those in the CoS are nothing but followers of a different color…

Besides Peter Gilmore has stated that the CoS is nothing but a stage show... With them being the actors... Not all Satanists are in it for the showmanship of it all...

Thank you

Move along now

~T~

"Say unto thine own heart and soul, "I, even I, am mine own redeemer." ~Ragnar Redbeard from Might is Right


Edited by ta2zz (04/19/08 11:30 AM)
Edit Reason: Would you like fries with that?
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#7975 - 04/19/08 11:54 AM Re: The First Satanic Church [Re: Lusafyr]
Xutech Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/18/08
Posts: 34
Loc: Australia
So why is it that you're not only practically calling people liars, but also bemoaning the ignorance of "outsiders" about the subject? You're hardly making an innocent cry for information and discussion.

Further, I'd hardly claim that LaVey first codified Satanism, or that CoS could claim "lordship" on that basis. Would this logically imply that had Micheal Aquino beaten LaVey to the punch we'd all be forced to be members of the ToS and strictly obey his strictures on the rule of precedence? and let's not bring in every fruitloop satanic society throughout history from the Hellfire clubs and further afield. Do they not qualify as historical precedents? Quite a few of them certainly took themselves seriously.

For that whole passage about "not feeling the need to join until I can contribute in some way", it's a very telling speech. Since you're so intimately involved, both as an "artist" and as a "soldier" as your tag and text claim, you're certainly not short of a dollar. And since you not only create art but serve your country, you'd be more than capable of claiming that you contributed to the CoS in some tangible form. Perhaps instead you're a wallflower who's too scared to commit to anything beyond a safe line. I'd diagnose you as a closet Anthropologist.

And for your "association" with that hefty list of names in relation to your "music" and "performance art", I think you're confusing business with friendship, and silence with acceptance.
Failure and success isn't a process of osmosis.

Just because I don't lift my skirt on every post and claim that I'm a member of such and such or the other does not mean that I'm not a member, have no memberships, history, experience.
I'd rather stand on the merit of my own words and not on plaques, certificates and other purchased titles.

At least have the balls to submit your argument as your own.

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