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#48802 - 02/13/11 10:36 PM Looking round..
lightlight Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/13/11
Posts: 11
I'm located in the SF bay area, CA and i'm looking to finally get into Satanism (be it through the CoS, FSC, or ToS...or even the OTO as I take the true, hidden meaning of Thelema do be completely Satanic)


I just want to get a feel for what it's like from the other side's perspective. I've gathered that it's largely an online, non personal, community (something I don't like) but I'm curious what the real-life, personal aspect is like. Meetings, rituals, 'specialized groups, grottos, etc.

I emailed the High Priestess of the CoS asking if I was just paying $200 for a red card and she didn't give me a straight answer =/

personally, I believe that the Atheist does a great thing by renouncing all the bullshit of the popular religions but he leaves himself with no code (usually other than that of popular morality) to live life by resulting in a mostly-unconscious life. Satanism...and simple logic, really, teaches you to dedicate your life to the best thing you can dedicate it to: yourself!

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#48804 - 02/13/11 10:48 PM Re: Looking round.. [Re: lightlight]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
I'm located in the SF bay area, CA and i'm looking to finally get into Satanism


You speak of Satanism as if it were a hobby like needle-point or cliff diving. What do you mean by "get into" and what has prevented you from already doing so?

 Quote:
I've gathered that it's largely an online, non personal, community (something I don't like) but I'm curious what the real-life, personal aspect is like. Meetings, rituals, 'specialized groups, grottos, etc.


A lot of interaction between Satanists takes place online though I am sure a lot of it takes place in the real world as well. The actual living of the philosophy itself is something that can not be done online.

 Quote:
I emailed the High Priestess of the CoS asking if I was just paying $200 for a red card and she didn't give me a straight answer =/


Now that is just funny!
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#48807 - 02/13/11 11:07 PM Re: Looking round.. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
lightlight Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/13/11
Posts: 11
the world of Satanism? i'm finally looking to get into the world of Satanism. by 'get into' I obviously mean to join an order. The CoS site spoke of the want of interaction with other Satanists like it was a bad thing and a clear sign of weakness, as if there were no in between. and seeing as how all Satanist work is publicly available what other point in joining could there possibly be than the urge to give away $200 for a small red card?

is there more to it?

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#48808 - 02/13/11 11:20 PM Re: Looking round.. [Re: lightlight]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
If you want to test the water within an order I suggest you join your local branch of the OTO. They don't expect much prior knowledge and their order is graded in a manner similar to that of the Golden Dawn (for obvious reasons). This gives newcomers a structured introduction to their particular brand of esotericism and the opportunity to meet physically and interact with other members. You will at some point be invited to attend a Gnostic Mass and be able to see some ritual for yourself.
So far as Crowley's Thelema being essentially "Satanic" I could debate that till the cows have not only come home but had supper, changed into their pyjamas and climbed into bed. As I have neither the time nor the inclination to do so here, I would respectfully suggest you read as much as you can on this Forum and get a feel of what it is members are about. The Left Hand Path is essentially one followed in isolation, even from those we may acknowledge as peers. My best wishes with that!
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

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#48810 - 02/13/11 11:37 PM Re: Looking round.. [Re: lightlight]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



In Regards to the CoS

I recommend a careful reading of the works of Dr. LaVey and HP Gilmore.

You may also want to carefully go through the 'Questions to The Church of Satan' forum at the Letters to the Devil website if you want to get answers regarding membership in the current Church of Satan and the advantages you will receive from such a membership.

I have nothing against the CoS, but my interest in joining them has certainly diminished in the past 12 months or so.

The $200.00 does make sense to me if you are someone who wants to support the Church with its day to day running costs, but the key is you have to make use of it and drive it.

In Regards to the FSC

I really like the FSC for their understated website and their elitist and exclusive nature. They are also San Francisco based and seem to maintain an organisation which somewhat resembles the early CoS, when Dr. LaVey was in charge. I am a Karla LaVey fan as well.

In Regards to the TOS

I recommend reading Dr. Aquino’s works (available at his website) and the relevant threads here at the 600C. This is a sophisticated and unusual organisation and its modern incarnation grew out of the 1975 CoS crisis. Find out what this crisis was all about before making any decision about the TOS I think.

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#48811 - 02/13/11 11:40 PM Re: Looking round.. [Re: lightlight]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
The "world of Satanism" doesn't really take place in any group, organization, order, grotto or variation thereof. Satanism is a living philosophy, it's something that one "does". Just because you join of group of people who fancy themselves Satanists doesn't mean that you are "experiencing" (for lack of a better word) Satanism.

 Quote:
is there more to it?


I don't know, I've never been a member of any such organization.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#48998 - 02/16/11 09:51 PM Re: Looking round.. [Re: felixgarnet]
lightlight Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/13/11
Posts: 11
 Originally Posted By: felixgarnet
If you want to test the water within an order I suggest you join your local branch of the OTO. They don't expect much prior knowledge and their order is graded in a manner similar to that of the Golden Dawn (for obvious reasons). This gives newcomers a structured introduction to their particular brand of esotericism and the opportunity to meet physically and interact with other members. You will at some point be invited to attend a Gnostic Mass and be able to see some ritual for yourself.
So far as Crowley's Thelema being essentially "Satanic" I could debate that till the cows have not only come home but had supper, changed into their pyjamas and climbed into bed. As I have neither the time nor the inclination to do so here, I would respectfully suggest you read as much as you can on this Forum and get a feel of what it is members are about. The Left Hand Path is essentially one followed in isolation, even from those we may acknowledge as peers. My best wishes with that!


I'll read the book of law again and make a thread about it (i forgot exactly why i came to the conclusion i did)

i completely agree that the LHP (i hate calling it that) is a solo thing. "preach generocity (right) and practice selfishness(left)" -me
but i need to find other people with this kind of mind set. i've tried to recruit some friends but they are either too lazy or too stupid. taking the initiative to be a satanist wouldm entail you aren't either

i don't doubt i'll join the OTO within a few months...but it just doesnt really have the people i need in it. too hippy. not young enough. etc. etc. etc.

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#48999 - 02/16/11 10:00 PM Re: Looking round.. [Re: ]
lightlight Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/13/11
Posts: 11
 Originally Posted By: MatthewJ1
In Regards to the CoS

I recommend a careful reading of the works of Dr. LaVey and HP Gilmore.

You may also want to carefully go through the 'Questions to The Church of Satan' forum at the Letters to the Devil website if you want to get answers regarding membership in the current Church of Satan and the advantages you will receive from such a membership.

I have nothing against the CoS, but my interest in joining them has certainly diminished in the past 12 months or so.

The $200.00 does make sense to me if you are someone who wants to support the Church with its day to day running costs, but the key is you have to make use of it and drive it.

In Regards to the FSC

I really like the FSC for their understated website and their elitist and exclusive nature. They are also San Francisco based and seem to maintain an organisation which somewhat resembles the early CoS, when Dr. LaVey was in charge. I am a Karla LaVey fan as well.

In Regards to the TOS

I recommend reading Dr. Aquino’s works (available at his website) and the relevant threads here at the 600C. This is a sophisticated and unusual organisation and its modern incarnation grew out of the 1975 CoS crisis. Find out what this crisis was all about before making any decision about the TOS I think.


why has your interest in joining them dimished?
i don't care at all about supporting the church, or more importantly, the lifestyles of the people that run it.
i like the thought of being given the keys and it being up to me to drive...but what exactly am i driving? even in a city as big as the one i live in, how many active members are there? and what exactly does being an active member mean? it seems like (laveyan) satanists have nothing other than a card and a philosophy to call themselves satanists. what active roll does the CoS play in their lives? in the OTO they have meetings, the gnostic church, intiation, etc
it honestly seems like the church is too lazy to organize things like these and they just want my money

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#49002 - 02/16/11 11:43 PM Re: Looking round.. [Re: lightlight]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
The CoS (at least nowadays) does come off as "lazy" compared to most other organizations, but they don't seem to make an effort of hiding it either. They don't organize regional meetings or provide any sort of communication other than chatting with fellow CoS members online.

I cannot vouch for the FSC, but from the looks of things they have more social goings-on. I don't know if Karla holds any ritual/occult events or if they're all just rock concerts, but hey, if I lived in SF I'd definitely check it out.

If you're looking for a traditional occult fraternity, check out an established magical order... like others have said, the OTO is your best bet. Or non-fluffy Wicca if you're into that sort of thing. Some people are interesting in learning more about the occult. Others are just itching to try group ritual. Whatever the reason, don't turn something down just because it's not explicitly LHP. It's a good learning experience and often you will run into like-minded people.

If by chance you run into well-organized Satanic group that hasn't self-imploded yet, look into that. Or better yet, start your own.

But above all, Satanism is an individual approach to life, and community as such should be viewed as little more than social networking and maybe meeting a few good comrades. There is no ideological meta-tribe like Christianity or Judaism. There is your will, and your will alone.

You already have the keys, you already have the car. Whether you run into other drivers on the road is usually by chance, and more often then not they won't be headed in the same direction you are. If not, that's fine too, but don't let it distract you from your own journey.
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#49011 - 02/17/11 01:17 AM Re: Looking round.. [Re: lightlight]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



I am not really interested in advocating, or not advocating membership in the Church of Satan or in any other Satanic organisation.

Joining any Satanic organisation is a very personal choice and should be undertaken after a great deal of thought I think.

I wanted to make some points, however, by trying to adopt the point of view of a member of the current hierarchy of the Church of Satan (if such a thing is possible). Jake and maybe Dr. Aquino will probably have a good laugh at me.

You should stop thinking about what your $200.00 membership fee will buy you. Paying $200.00 to the Church of Satan is not really about the purchase of goods and services.

Paying $200.00 and gaining membership is all about something else and I hope you will see why in just a moment. Let’s create a fictional guy named Dave.

One day Dave reads The Satanic Bible by Anton Szandor LaVey and is startled to find that he is a Satanist as per that book. Reading LaVey has been a revelation for him and has made enormous sense. He adopts the name of Satanist proudly.

Dave finds out through further research that Anton LaVey founded a unique organisation called the Church of Satan, and that this organisation is still going even though LaVey is dead.

Dave carefully reads all the essays on the Church of Satan website, buys LaVey’s other works and begins studying them. On top of this Dave buys H.P Peter Gilmore’s book and studies it as well. (He doesn’t necessarily need to do this, but he wants to learn more and be as well informed as he can be.)

Dave decides to join the Church of Satan as an active member. He does this because he wishes to support the organisation which LaVey started, and which publically represents the philosophy which he holds dear, and which is the premiere (and according to the CoS the only) Satanic organisation.

Dave is not interested in receiving goods and services in return for his $200.00. He realises that an organisation has running costs which must be met. He also realises that he does not require the Church to provide services, or fellowship, or meetings because he is a proud non – joiner, a radical intelligent individualist and he realises that he is quite capable of arranging these sorts of things on his own if he needs or wants to. He has the internet after all.

Dave realises that there are more important concerns then meetings or services etc. He has certain well defined goals for his life, and he has certain talents he can employ to meet his goals. Dave realises that his success within the Church of Satan will be commensurate with his success in the outside world; that is in achieving those defined goals and being the best he can be and by living his life as fully as possible.

He keeps the Church informed of his progress in meeting his goals and he is also engaged in intelligent conversation with members of the hierarchy of the Church through the internet. Dave is elevated to the second degree, he is made a Warlock.

He actively promotes Satanism and proves that he can properly explain Satanism and dispel errors and misconceptions in the media and other public forums. His prowess here is recognised by the Church and he receives training and is made an agent of the Church.

On and on it goes. He kicks ass in his work, in his life and is made a member of the Priesthood of Mendes and so on. He knows more and more Church members through his involvement in website communication and because he is involved in Special Interest Groups (S.I.G’s). He creates his own Satanic related venture - maybe he makes art, or creates a website, or something else of significance.

It is always about his intelligent effort and the rewards he gets from that effort.

This is what membership in the CoS is about. He does it, he kicks ass and gets the success. He furthers Satanism through his success, his example. He works for the success of the Church because he believes in it. He furthers its areas of concern.

The Church is user driven. Any success it has is due to the hard work of those who believe in it. Does this make sense?

I think if you check out the 'Questions about the Church of Satan' forum at LTTD you will find that the above is a fairly consistent sort of response to people who ask the CoS hierarchy about membership. Also look at the writings on the CoS website.

I am not a member of CoS because I enjoy having the flexibility to study what I want. I am looking at a lot of material from the Temple of Set right now and these works are important to me.

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#49031 - 02/17/11 11:51 AM Re: Looking round.. [Re: ]
lightlight Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/13/11
Posts: 11
so this guy dave is a non-joiner because he doesn't want to get anything out of the chruch (including like minded people who mitght share his same goals) yet he pays $200 to join the Church...which does absolutely nothing for him other than make him $200 poorer?

FCS it is then

how can your $200 be used to help run the church when all the church is, is a website that pays for itself? lol

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#49069 - 02/17/11 07:55 PM Re: Looking round.. [Re: lightlight]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 860
Loc: Nashville
Lightlight, you seem to have conflicting attitudes regarding joining Satanic/occult organizations. What I would suggest is that you step away from that for awhile and simply continue participating here. There’s no pressure to do anything except avoid making an ass of yourself. No money, no “degrees” - just speak, listen and learn.

If later you decide to join an organization, at least it will be a somewhat informed decision and not a mere impulse. Good luck.
_________________________
In Minecraft all chickens are spies.

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#49216 - 02/20/11 12:00 PM Re: Looking round.. [Re: William Wright]
lightlight Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/13/11
Posts: 11
more time spent online is less time spent doing something'
i want to join something. it's about that time. the only impulse is in choosing what to join

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#49217 - 02/20/11 12:00 PM Re: Looking round.. [Re: lightlight]
lightlight Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/13/11
Posts: 11
why is the FSC site closed?
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#49218 - 02/20/11 12:08 PM Re: Looking round.. [Re: lightlight]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
So you have to join something in order to do something? That doesn't make much sense.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#49235 - 02/20/11 02:58 PM Re: Looking round.. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Enough with the one line posts people.

The FSC website is up, I just googled it. Why don't you try that?

Joining an organization doesn't make you any more of a Satanist than if you don't.

If you feel the deep need to belong to something, it's sunday, walk into any church. I am sure they will welcome you into their little group.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#49244 - 02/20/11 04:46 PM Re: Looking round.. [Re: felixgarnet]
LucyFur Offline
member


Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 122
Loc: Bible Belt, USA
 Originally Posted By: felixgarnet

So far as Crowley's Thelema being essentially "Satanic" I could debate that till the cows have not only come home but had supper, changed into their pyjamas and climbed into bed. As I have neither the time nor the inclination to do so here, I would respectfully suggest you read as much as you can on this Forum and get a feel of what it is members are about. The Left Hand Path is essentially one followed in isolation, even from those we may acknowledge as peers. My best wishes with that!


Very sound advice. Crowley's brand of Thelema differs from Satanism in many ways, the major one being its Christian-Rosicrucian theism. And while they say an Atheist can be a Thelemite, once you become initiated you are expected to believe as they do, perform repetitive rituals on a daily basis, and propagate 'The Law of Thelema'. And in spite of the law being 'Do what thou wilt' members are constrained to follow the rules of the order, some of which were obviously put in place to extract the maximum amount of membership dues from the aspiring clergy of the EGC.

Regardless of Crowley's vision for the OTO, it has mutated into a tax exempt, religious order that is not much different from any other 501-3c tax exempt church (charity). And as such, its only purpose is to perform the Gnostic Mass. While the Mass, usually performed with a naked Priestess on the Altar, is cool to see, it is blatantly being used as a recruiting tool to make up the endless revolving door of Minervaals (0 degree - welcome guest). Why is it a revolving door, you may ask? Because once a person is initiated into the Minerval degree they find out that the OTO is strictly a social order. They have no system of teaching like the Golden Dawn, nor do they do a whole lot of ritual other than the Mass, yet they dangle this carrot of occult knowledge in front of your nose so you will pay for the next initiation, then the next.... Most Minervals either lose interest or catch on to the way things are and don't go any further.

You are better off putting all the money you would have spent on initiations and dues into books and educating yourself.



Edited by LucyFur (02/20/11 05:18 PM)
_________________________
I spit on your crapulous creeds.
Let all chaste women be utterly despised among you!


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#49247 - 02/20/11 05:01 PM Re: Looking round.. [Re: lightlight]
LucyFur Offline
member


Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 122
Loc: Bible Belt, USA
 Originally Posted By: lightlight

but i need to find other people with this kind of mind set. i've tried to recruit some friends but they are either too lazy or too stupid. taking the initiative to be a satanist wouldm entail you aren't either


One of the members of my private temple started a Meet-Up group for local LHP seekers. This Meet-up site is becoming popular as more people are learning of it and joining various groups that meet face to face.

http://www.meetup.com/
_________________________
I spit on your crapulous creeds.
Let all chaste women be utterly despised among you!


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#49249 - 02/20/11 05:10 PM Re: Looking round.. [Re: The Zebu]
LucyFur Offline
member


Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 122
Loc: Bible Belt, USA
 Originally Posted By: The Zebu


But above all, Satanism is an individual approach to life, and community as such should be viewed as little more than social networking and maybe meeting a few good comrades. There is no ideological meta-tribe like Christianity or Judaism. There is your will, and your will alone.



Very good point! Satanists are not 'herd' or 'pack' animals who blindly follow others. As such, it is always a treat to meet a local Satanist as we are few and far between; and it's an even bigger thrill to find another whose will it is to open his temple to another so that they may work together on occasion.

Here in the Bible Belt I never take such an occasion for granted.
_________________________
I spit on your crapulous creeds.
Let all chaste women be utterly despised among you!


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#49611 - 02/24/11 11:57 PM Re: Looking round.. [Re: Morgan]
lightlight Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/13/11
Posts: 11
i don't give a fuck about being more of a satanist
learning on my own has lead me to the occult. now i want to join an order and, more importantly, i want people into the occult/magick/spirituality to be a part of my life

i feel like i know something. i want to know more and i want to share it with certain people to take it further

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#49615 - 02/25/11 12:15 AM Re: Looking round.. [Re: lightlight]
TrollovGrimness Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/20/11
Posts: 44
Loc: Montreal
I haven't read through this whole thread but have you thought of masonry?

They do a lot of charity work. They like building new hospitals or churches and stuff. They donate a lot to healthcare. Like the shriners.. they're a part of it (don't ask me how). 'War Amps'.

They have lodges. They're public buildings you can go to them. Many masons are public you can ask them about masonry and they'll tell you about it. You get to enjoy the company of a large group of people.

If you're looking for PEOPLE this is probably your bag. But you must be good natured and ready to deal with people and a lot of people can't do that. You also should be able to contribute and participate.
_________________________
http://www.last.fm/user/TrollovGrimness
Music I like. And my doll.

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#50045 - 02/27/11 07:18 PM Re: Looking round.. [Re: TrollovGrimness]
lightlight Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/13/11
Posts: 11
i actually used to want to be a mason..but i think you're right. i might as well join. i messaged the temple in oakland and got invited by the temple in alameda (smaller, quiter city) and the average age was like 72 so i didn't want to join....i'm now thinking i'll join and see if some other temples are different. and the connections i'd make in there would probably be better anyway

but you're taking me the wrong way. i'm not looking for friends, i'm looking for people to recruit pretty much
Satanism seems like a thing that self respecting, smart, and most importantly 'cool' people would be.
i'm not looking to recruit dungeon dwellers
i'm pretty fucking good looking myself

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#50049 - 02/27/11 08:07 PM Re: Looking round.. [Re: lightlight]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

 Originally Posted By: lightlight
but you're taking me the wrong way. i'm not looking for friends, i'm looking for people to recruit pretty much
Satanism seems like a thing that self respecting, smart, and most importantly 'cool' people would be.
i'm not looking to recruit dungeon dwellers
i'm pretty fucking good looking myself

So in 14 days you went from wanting to get into Satanism to you are now looking to recruit. Recruit for what, what do YOU have to offer anyone?

I doubt you will find any/many followers here.

Good luck
~T~


Edited by ta2zz (02/27/11 08:08 PM)
Edit Reason: formatting issue
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We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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