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#48902 - 02/16/11 12:19 AM Using other traditions in magic.
GeorgeDeadson Offline
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Registered: 02/15/11
Posts: 10
Loc: Dallas, TX
Norse, Celtic, Egyptian, Assyrian, ect.

Do you use elements from these traditions in your magic? How so?
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#48906 - 02/16/11 12:43 AM Re: Using other traditions in magic. [Re: GeorgeDeadson]
myk5 Offline
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Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
I've played with Norse runes, adding them to sigils in the Austen Osman spare tradition, to good effect.

The reason is my being inundated with Norse mythology in comics and so forth, the story of Odin is familiar and inspiring to me. Also because as a White mutt I lack an ethnic tradition, but my wasp genes might, on a level of the collective unconscious, allow the Norse paradigm to have some relevance to me.

Of course the former paragraph is entirely bullshit. So I learned a minimum about runes and tried them out in sigil magic to see if they helped or not. The sigils in that case seem to be on track, (so the runes at least didn't ruin the magic): I'm now working almost full time, my second part time job pays fairly well - and I'm now working with a local credit union to get my business started (a mix of webdesign and graphic design services coupled with silk screen production is the plan).

-Not bad considering almost a year ago I lost almost everything (my large comic and valuable comic collection, my computer and all my backups of decades of original graphics files, all my books, my beloved black cat ..etc.) to a house fire.

I'm allergic to Egyptian, know little about Celtic, nothing about Assyrian.


Edited by myk5 (02/16/11 12:44 AM)

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#48908 - 02/16/11 12:56 AM Re: Using other traditions in magic. [Re: myk5]
GeorgeDeadson Offline
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Registered: 02/15/11
Posts: 10
Loc: Dallas, TX
I have used assyrian tradition. I recently have adapted norse. I feel that without the witchcraft/wiccan BS, the norse tradition and mythology reflects mans carnal nature very well.
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#48922 - 02/16/11 08:36 AM Re: Using other traditions in magic. [Re: GeorgeDeadson]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1641
Loc: Orlando, FL
I am currently working with the symbolism behind runes and making my own set, but not much beyond that. I flirted with Egyptian-oriented esotericism for a brief time, but never really saw the value in it. Drawing on ancient religious imagery just seems like pointless window-dressing to me-- such traditions have been dead for generations, and as a moderner I cannot hope to comprehend such systems on a deep level as they were originally intended.

(I have, however, approached my native tradition-- Catholicism-- from a magical angle. Since then I've been able to see how it fits into the rich tapestry of European folklore and solar spiritual narrative. I find it a touch ironic that I can only appreciate Christianity from the perspective on an outsider.)

On the other hand, living in Latino-populated parts of Florida has gotten me very much interested in Afro-Caribbean traditions such as Santeria and Palo. I have spoken with some Mayombe practitioners, who, unlike other Paleros, do not shy away from the topic of so-called "black" practices, since they view magic in a more morally-neutral light. I was also introduced to the Cuban version of the Book of Saint Cyprian, which is a popular grimoire containing Solomonic lore with some new bits and pieces linking them together (along with a few explicitly Satanic parts).

This all has greatly influenced my outlook on magic, especially in the way I approach Goetia. I have also found a scattering of local Botanicas that are infinitely more useful than the single wiccan New-Age joint downtown.

Related traditions, such as Quimbanda and the Latin-American cults of Death, have become subjects of growing interest among the western occult community as of late. I think this is primarily because they are living, breathing traditions that are easier to experience directly instead of simply being researched.
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#48939 - 02/16/11 12:12 PM Re: Using other traditions in magic. [Re: The Zebu]
myk5 Offline
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Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
I've worked with Hoodoo some, strictly the folk magic. It does leverage a lot of Jewish and Xtian themes (if as an Atheist it is possible to work with Satan, I believe it is possible to so work with 'God' as well). Ironically it was Hoodoo that led me to Law of Attraction (utilized as a means to discipline the lust for result, in it's place a reinforced and magically potent certainty).

I understand its not worth even checking out Palo for me personally as I'm Gay and that tradition is specifically hostile to that. I understand Voodoun and Santeria could be more welcoming, but they are explicitly religious faiths - which Hoodoo is not.

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#48961 - 02/16/11 05:31 PM Re: Using other traditions in magic. [Re: myk5]
LucyFur Offline
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Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 122
Loc: Bible Belt, USA
Yes, the religious undertones of Voodoun are not as in-your-face as they are in Santeria though. Santeria is a composite of Voodoo and Catholicism which recognizes certain saints which correspond to the Loa. I attend a Gnostic temple which incorporates both Voodoun and Enochian magick for some fun and interesting ritual experiences. I also work with a Santerian Priest doing healing rituals for people we know with cancer and AIDS. I respect his magick and it is very effective, but the part that resonates with me is the Loa, not the saints. I can barely stomach the prayers as they sound too Christian too me.

Personally, I am a Chaos magickian, taking what I need from various traditions and incorporating them into something that works for me. I like Crowley's work but refuse to use the traditional Jewish god names. Instead, I use the Sumerian, Babylonian, and Egyptian archetypal god-forms. I feel more of a connection to them. Even though YHVH corresponds with IUPETER I still see it as Yaweh, the prick god of the Old Testament. I guess I am more of a Gypsy than a Jew.

Lately, I have been performing more Luciferian and Satanic rituals as I don't have to change them much to suit my preferences. Recently my ritual partner and I did a Baphomet invocation which called for a reading of a chapter in the book of Revelations. At first my partner and I were like - WTF? So while my partner started reading it I decided that was a good time to throw off my robe and dance around naked. After all, it was about the whore of Babylon......

My partner said he will never look at the book of Revelations the same again! LOL! He says he gets an erection whenever he sees the Bible! \:D How's that for an effective ritual?


Edited by LucyFur (02/16/11 05:32 PM)
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#49010 - 02/17/11 01:09 AM Re: Using other traditions in magic. [Re: LucyFur]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1641
Loc: Orlando, FL
I used to have an aversion to outwardly Christian forms too-- but what studying Diaspora magic taught me was that outward forms are just that-- they can used as vehicles for other forces as well.

Therefore, it is also easier to adopt other forms and twist your understanding of them to suit your own needs while keeping most of the exterior, as opposed to actively resisting them and attempting to place some antithesis in their place.

This is why forms like Wicca tend to tie themselves into such heavy knots. Many of them are very anti-Christian (some more so than the typical Satanist!), and even from the genesis of the religion, they have made every attempt to purge the "foreign" influences of Christianity in order to reclaim some sort of "pure" Pagan practice. In doing so, however, they have separated themselves from an authentic tradition, because what is the best candidate for a living, breathing heir to the European folk mythos than Catholicism? I do not mean the dry theology of the Church fathers or moralistic theorists living in ideological isolation from common society-- I mean Catholicism in practice, the vulgar sort of Christianity, with its pagan feasts and processions, idolatrous veneration of the Saints, daemoniacal superstitions, clerical witchcraft, and quasi-heretical monastic ecstasy.

In other words, there was no medieval witch-cult that danced naked around bonfires every full moon singing praises to the Mother Goddess. Few "witches" ever actually called themselves such, and they did most if not all of their conjuring in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. These holy names reverberated with the dim echo of ancient pre-Christian divinity. The God of the Cunning-Man was not the God of the Hebrews, even though the unwary mind cannot see this immediately.

Similarly, Santeros spray rum before the image of Saint Anthony not because they are venerating the Christian saint as Catholics understand it, but because it is a glyph- a representation that stands for something else-- in this case, the deity Eleggua. (The historical Antonius of Padua may have enjoyed his happy hours with Captain Morgan, but that is beside the point.)

The only difference in regards to Santeria is that the latter has had less time to coalesce, and thus the foreign elements are easier to discern. While Christians still put up fir trees and stockings every December in honor of Saint Nicolas, they have long since forgotten the name of Odin the Wanderer. They pray to Christ Triumphant and Mary upon her lunar pedestal, but do not recognize them as Apollo and Diana. This, however, is not a tragedy-- the primal essence has not been lost, only transmuted into a new form.

Recognizing this, I can recite the prayers and conjurations of the grimoires with little modification. (beyond changing the tone slightly so they are not so bossy towards Old Nick and friends... honey versus vinegar, here.) Part of the efficacy of traditional Black Magic comes from the psychological dissonance caused by using "sacred" forms to invoke the sinister.

At the same time, I am wary not to "misappropriate" cultural traditions I do not fully understand, such as Vodoun. As a non-dualist, I don't believe that the Lwa's power will destroy my feeble uninitiated soul if I try to stick my fingers in their magical pot; I just don't see the point in it if I'm not esoterically versed in their religion. I'd rather be covered in machete cuts, drenched in blood and chicken shit, trembling to the Creole chants with my eyes rolling into the back of my head as Lucero claims my head in a full-blown Palo initation, than stand in some half-assed circle of white people mixing the names of African gods with Golden-Dawn invocations. (No serious offense intended towards your experiences, Lucy, I'm just a bitter cynic that likes to over-exaggerate his rage.)

Eschewing tradition is fine if you're going for a synthetic avant-garde approach like CM. That has its own place in magic too. I've spend much recent time exploring the dynamic relationship between grounded traditional approaches versus personal abstract ones, and trying to find some kind of a balance between both.


Edited by The Zebu (02/17/11 01:12 AM)
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#52141 - 04/03/11 06:31 PM Re: Using other traditions in magic. [Re: The Zebu]
Meph9 Offline
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Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
In terms of mixing traditions I think it is worth noting that today's Satanism and western occultism in general is already a mix of the ideas and symbols from a variety of ancient sources. And come to think of it that could be said of all religions. Now in terms of using the formats from other mystic traditions I find that the concepts and formats behind the golden dawn style to be very interesting. I try to incorporate some of the music, dance, and animist ideas from West African Voodoo.

" than stand in some half-assed circle of white people mixing the names of African gods with Golden-Dawn invocations" reminds me of suburban white kids cocking their hats to side calling each the n-word.

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#52175 - 04/04/11 01:18 PM Re: Using other traditions in magic. [Re: Meph9]
Lucifer Rising Offline
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Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 147
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Coming from a Xtian background, I like to use mostly Gnostic, Enochian, and Xtian symbolism mixed with Alchemy and Egyptian. I use anything I find that I like, but those are the major ones. I'm actually working on developing my own set of tarot cards. I don't believe in it, but it's fun.
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#61562 - 11/18/11 09:44 AM Re: Using other traditions in magic. [Re: The Zebu]
PrinceOfBabalon Offline
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Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 49
Loc: London
 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
I have, however, approached my native tradition-- Catholicism-- from a magical angle. Since then I've been able to see how it fits into the rich tapestry of European folklore and solar spiritual narrative. I find it a touch ironic that I can only appreciate Christianity from the perspective on an outsider.


Same here. I'd be very interested in hearing about how that came about for you should you wish to indulge me...

In my case, because of its aesthetics, I find Catholicism a magically effectual system, particularly in forms such as the Tridentine Mass and I use it as one stream in the wider Western current. Also to approach it as a meta-religious European "Tradition" (in the Evola sense), which allows it to work almost like an egregore of everything from feudalism to the Mystery Religions to Renaissance art, provides a very rich magical framework to operate in I think.

In my experience it does take a great capacity to suspend disbelief and an ability to step into the fire without getting singed but I've found it useful in blurring the lines between fantasy and reality.
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#61568 - 11/18/11 04:14 PM Re: Using other traditions in magic. [Re: PrinceOfBabalon]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1641
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
Same here. I'd be very interested in hearing about how that came about for you should you wish to indulge me...


Basically when I realized that the elements of Christianity are essentially analogous to those of classical paganism, both in folk tradition and esoteric mysticism. During this time, I kept an altar to the Saints and performed both devotional and practical rites, with novenas, rosary prayers, etc. I helped maintain the paradigm by performing such rituals on a daily basis, and reading monastic literature.

Overall the experience helped me see past the dualism of apparent opposites, and broke down some of the residual prejudice from my initial break from Christian ideology years ago.
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