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#52975 - 04/15/11 04:03 AM Re: New Questionnaire Promo Video! [Re: Dimitri]
Caladrius Offline
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Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 318
Loc: SoCal
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri

And you'll quickly find out that the attitudes of Satanists are comparable with those of the general population. Why is that? Because Satanists belong to the general population.


That a good point Dimitri. I agree.

Maybe to build on that. IMO, as a subculture "Satanism" takes on the "shape" of General Population. General-Pop being in the shape of a Diamond.

You have the middle part of the diamond of the subculture of Satanism filled with the common and average ones. Then as the Diamond tapers up the IQ or Level of Understanding increases. So eventually you have "Satanists" like Aquino, Myatt/Long, Jason King, MindFux, Dan Dread, Khk, etc at the top half somewhere.

Then as we go down we enter Joy of Satan terrotory lol. And the very bottom point of the Diamond of Satanism's subculture is Blackwood [IQ = 40].

That's just my opinion. Basically the point is that perhaps as a "sub-culture" Satanism generally reflects society in general.


Edited by Caladrius (04/15/11 04:12 AM)
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#52990 - 04/15/11 10:26 AM Re: New Questionnaire Promo Video! [Re: Caladrius]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Of course satanists will reflect similarities with the general populace. On a large enough scale there will be very little difference besides the label used to describe the subgroup they are part of.

But not all in society see it as such and consider satanists a sub-species of humanity who probably do everything quite different and raise their kids telling them their puppy not went to puppy heaven but that it will rot and be devoured by maggots. They probably raise their kids to be evil and punish them when being brave. There are probably a lot of people out there that think Satanism is caused by something and as such, can easily be solved too. Like one can solve homosexuality. It must be disappointing to them to find out satanists are not that different, give or take some difference in valuation.

But, on the other hand, there is a distinct difference, else there was no need at all for Satanism. But this difference isn't a general phenomena in Satanism since not all satanists are satanists for the same “reason”. Which explains why we are a culture of internal conflict and, contrary to what some think, completely incapable of accomplishing common satanic goals. We are a fractured group and only cooperate when it serves the Self or the goals of the Self. We don't shy away from damaging those in our own subculture when we either see it as needed or find it an amusing pastime. Satanic cooperation is a very fragile phenomena and one never knows for what reason anyone else is in it. Those that smile at you now can easily stab you in the back tomorrow.

In that, we are also not too different from the general populace minus the fact that we don't shy away from admitting it.

We're about the only subculture considering only ourselves and those three there being part of it and all those others are simply deluding themselves. The entertaining part is that about all the others have the same opinion. We deluding ourselves? Not at all, it's actually them doing it.

D.

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#53002 - 04/15/11 03:59 PM Re: New Questionnaire Promo Video! [Re: Dimitri]
Jim Lewis Offline
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Registered: 02/24/11
Posts: 32
Loc: Tromsø, Norway

The Zebu,

Though I take your comments seriously, your remark about "eating babies" reminds me of an entertaining class in which one of my students asked a pair of Satanist speakers about whether they sacrificed babies. One of them, Shane Vedvik, said, "We love babies," at which point the other fellow, Kaiden Fox, immitating the voice of a TV advertiser, spoke up and said, "Babies! The other white meat!" It's one of those moments you never forget.

All the Best,

Jim

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#53003 - 04/15/11 04:04 PM Re: New Questionnaire Promo Video! [Re: Dimitri]
Jim Lewis Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/24/11
Posts: 32
Loc: Tromsø, Norway
Khk,

Useful responses. I'm still thinking about the implications of your comments about children not being ready for what we might call the 'full' philosophy of Satanism.

All the Best,

Jim



Edited by Jim Lewis (04/15/11 04:19 PM)
Edit Reason: forgot to add "All the Best"

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#53004 - 04/15/11 04:17 PM Re: New Questionnaire Promo Video! [Re: Dimitri]
Jim Lewis Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/24/11
Posts: 32
Loc: Tromsø, Norway

Dimitri & Caladrius,

While I have only met a dozen or so Satanists f2f, both in the U.S. and in Scandinavia, I have to say that most people willing to self-identify as Satanists have something about them that sets them apart. And, yes, of course I've met some of those immature a**holes who enjoy calling themselves Satanists. But I've found the majority to be uniquely interesting. It's part of why I study Satanists.

All the Best,

Jim

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#53021 - 04/16/11 01:45 AM Re: New Questionnaire Promo Video! [Re: Jim Lewis]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3114
That's because they probably told you in one way or another they were Satanists. From that point on you probably started in trying to find common grounds with the many of them, thus creating that sphere you find "uniquely interesting".
I'm quite sure you couldn't even pick me out of a group of people as being Satanist. Or, for that matter, other members here who have that black flame burning brightly untill we told you.
_________________________
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#53022 - 04/16/11 03:20 AM Re: New Questionnaire Promo Video! [Re: Dimitri]
Jim Lewis Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/24/11
Posts: 32
Loc: Tromsø, Norway

Dimitri,

Well, of course you're right in the sense that I would not be able to pick a Satanist out of a crowd of non-Satanists. And it certainly is the case that one's preconceptions shape one's perceptiions. There's been plenty of social psychological research to support that.

As an academician, I've studied non-traditional religions/philosophies/spiritual paths for the better part of 30 years, which doesn't include the years of my own youthful 'spiritual quest.' In that time I've lived with Moonies and Hare Krishnas. I've danced around with Pagans and Sufis. And hung out with exotic religious groups that most people have never heard of. I have a baseline of life experience that few other people can claim. I'm not some kind of wet-behind-the-ears newspaper reporter who has never been outside of Peoria.

So when I say there's something unique about Satanists I've met, it means something.


All the Best,

Jim

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#53027 - 04/16/11 07:41 AM Re: New Questionnaire Promo Video! [Re: Jim Lewis]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Jim Lewis
I'm still thinking about the implications of your comments about children not being ready for what we might call the 'full' philosophy of Satanism.


This is the norm, AFAIK, in the Order of Nine Angles - that children can only become fully involved beyond a certain age when they are able to make a rational informed choice for themselves.

This is usually regarded as around the age of 16 - though some think aged 14 is fine, and others 18.

Until that time oftheir personal *initiation*, they are only dedicated, in an informal and non-binding way by their parents, to *the dark forces*/Satan/Satanism.

This stems from the belief, accepted by ONA parents, that children are not *ours* - but only loaned to us as parents; that we are only their guardians until such time as they can make their own decisions and informed choice.

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#53030 - 04/16/11 09:37 AM Re: New Questionnaire Promo Video! [Re: SinisterMoon]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
In regards to Jim's line of questioning as well as SinisterMoon's current choice of points raised.

Is Satanism, in part a philosophy, only because we have come so far away from Nature, and in this knowing, the philosophy itself is a working backward through abstractions to our innate simplicity? That the consciousness is being "used" as an observer to what we have become rather than the consciousness enjoying itself by bloating ego through displaying a complex mind at work? And that it will all appear as complex philosophy because there is much causal abstraction to work back through?

@SinisterMoon. I acknowledge your practical thought which I can hold as being a most likely workable actualisation, but would it not be seen in other numerous ways which could still be held as Satanic (I know you know but I'm just adding)? One being that no matter how old ones child, the necessity to defend ones own with deadly force is inexorable no matter what we may consciously decide? Am I to rethink and divide altruism from conscious decision making? If we are speaking ideals then I feel that the relationship between spirit and Nature is affirmed as soon as the being is out of the womb? And as our children are natural warriors insofar as the Satanist type is genetic i.e. high aggression and indomitable will, only being dampened in spirit by school teachers and other interfering Christianised moralists who would tell our children "don't hit back, tell an adult after you do nothing, because it does not matter who started it, you are going to suffer for self defence". A child is taught in the ways of Nature as soon as he interacts with other beings, this is inexorable, what is also present is the attempts to dampen his spirits by Christian society where the Satanic parent cannot give motivation to their child's freedom. I am not going to neglect the necessity for the not to harsh ordeals that children must pass through when interacting with one another i.e. fighting, learning respect and also subversion of causal forms as soon as possible.

Things don't always go to plan, for instance, one of my nephews when he was around 5, asked if we would be able to steal from the shop, quite innocently and of his own ingenuity, because the shop keeper was not looking, and for some reason this idea of his came about, I explained to him "it would be silly to do so right now, because we have money and there are cameras, if the camera records us taking sweets and not paying then the shop keeper will not let us in again because these sweets are his belongings and he likes money to swap for these sweets, so he can get things he wants". Then my nephew proceeded to ask for way too many things, so in effect I ended up getting robbed instead.

Anyway,

In affirming the above, would it not be out of place to question whether it is wise to assume that we can ever give full responsibility to our children at a certain age or otherwise suitable circumstance? Why? As to do so would only be a detachment from the immediacy of having continual responsibility over our children whether we chose to or not simply because Nature governs us all and only the safety of society relinquishes responsibility so that we may rest up or rather look elsewhere for involvements? Is then the issue of Satanist vs. "normal" folk an issue of abuse of recharge time? By this I point to peace, and peace being only an empty stage for will to power to enter and assert itself. If this is so, then responsibility over our children can only be constant, and yet forgettable by means of idealising our child's responsibility. Could it then be held that both parent and child are immediately responsible for one another with the scales tipping on who has primacy of responsibility as the accumulation of experience culminates for both? And with this being said, have I addressed points raised or distracted from?

In Satan's affirmation we are always that harsh shriek of birth as the skin burns on the cold hard earth. Of freedom, of growth; of mixing with the unknown, of that painful impurism, of mixing with the cold hard earth.
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#53034 - 04/16/11 11:25 AM Re: New Questionnaire Promo Video! [Re: Jim Lewis]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: Jim Lewis
So when I say there's something unique about Satanists I've met, it means something.


The major difference I appreciate in satanists is their willingness to share their views about everything, including that which society avoids or prefers to keep in the dark. Those I like most aren't too concerned about what is political correct or socially preferred and bluntly share their opinion. On those rare occasions I, in public, point at the cold reality behind their illusions, I am often met with shock, as if having exposed them, naked for all to see. Amongst satanists, there hardly is any commotion about such.

It is this openness and willingness I cherish most, and there are few subjects which are too taboo to even talk about. Anywhere else, I quickly see the very limitations of what is tolerated and often a refusal to do just that, leads quickly to a removal.

This is probably the most important reason satanists tend to “flock” together since this isn't provided elsewhere.

D.

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#53072 - 04/17/11 12:34 PM Re: New Questionnaire Promo Video! [Re: SinisterMoon]
Khk Offline
member


Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 398
As Sinister Moon says - and I agree - some see 14 as an acceptable age - though that would depend on an individual basis.

Any group that has in anyway admitted being involved in indoctrinating/harming children has been vehemently disavowed in by ONA and the Temple of THEM; I cite the Order of Dark Earth, and to a lesser extent the Tempel ov Blood's admissions and promotions of its activities.

THEM has zero tolerance for such activities and those who engage in them - and in some cases, advocates below zero tolerance.

Note that the Temple of THEM does not advocate dedicating children to Satan - but due to its ceullular structure such may occur in an unofficial manner. But I stress again, any activity associated with indoctrinating, harming or hurting children has no part in the practices or philosophy of the Temple of THEM.

I also agree wholely with the last statement by SM. Note that even the earliest manuscripts by the ONA have maintained that children are not to be involved in Satanism - and pedophiles and self-indulgent miscreants are culled in ONA literature. It is a sad fact that the dynamism and worldly good taste of the ONA is often missed or ignored and used as a scapegoat to justify various evils. Whilst ONA promotes evils on terrible scales - I have always assumed that it meant this from the perspective that we are all adults here and can make our own choices - but children, are never to be involved. That is inarguable. To involve them shows a distinct and dangerous lack of insight, foresight, respect, decorum and is a highly selfish act I consider reprehensible in the case of crimes, destructive and misguided in the case of participation/indoctrination.

ISS,
RA

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#53076 - 04/17/11 03:41 PM Re: New Questionnaire Promo Video! [Re: Khk]
Jim Lewis Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/24/11
Posts: 32
Loc: Tromsø, Norway

Khk,

I'd like to excerpt a bit of what you say above for a paper I'm currently writing.

Should I reference you as 'the' founder of the Temple of THEM, 'a' founder, or....?

All the Best,

Jim

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#53080 - 04/17/11 07:55 PM Re: New Questionnaire Promo Video! [Re: Khk]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Khk
I also agree wholely with the last statement by SM.A


Yes, indeed, and I think it's worth repeating that "the belief, accepted by ONA parents, is that children are not *ours* - but only loaned to us as parents; that we are only their guardians until such time as they can make their own decisions and informed choice."

Since this is an aural tradition, passed on from ONA initiate to ONA initiate, perhaps someone should write something more about this?

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#53082 - 04/17/11 10:04 PM Re: New Questionnaire Promo Video! [Re: Jim Lewis]
Khk Offline
member


Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 398
Co-founder, Jim. There is another whom co-founded the Temple with me; a sorceress known to us as Sath.


Edited by Khk (04/17/11 10:06 PM)

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#53083 - 04/17/11 10:18 PM Re: New Questionnaire Promo Video! [Re: Khk]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
I have observed that Satanist always seem to be communicators with their children instead of commanding them to be their ideals. This I think is because Satanist have had to affirm their own values and are not indoctrinated themselves and hence do not work blindly to ingrain what is absolutely "good" or "bad" without explanation but rather we explain things on the child's level, more work for us but we know it's not an option to be lazy. Children are smarter than many people realise and absorb information much faster than us adults, I have observed that Satanist know this.

Everything seems to come down to protecting our children and maybe this is why some of us get interested in Satanism because the hypocrite society we were raised in was what made us devalue everything and value what was natural to us? Regardless, we can see the questions on the survey being numerous and yet there seems to be not enough of the right questions insofar as there being so many political questions which a Satanist cares little about, and not enough psychological questions surveying adversarial or predatory propensity. I would think some questions like "what do you do when witnessing somebody beings mugged" or "what do you look at when observing somebodies gait" or "what do you process in your mind when approaching a group of people", There ought to be predatory and combat related questions with spaces for examples to be given. If the census was anonymous you'd get a much more honest survey from people often outside the law who won't be willing to put their name beside incriminating accounts, no matter how minor some of us just won't chance disclosing our often extreme behaviours publicly.

I personally wouldn't hold Satanism as anything important that will be in the next generation as there will be different circumstances and our ways will seem lame to future adults, we'll need to progress beyond things like Satanism and make something more scientific and adaptable, as the mundane is all there is to understand, the mundane being of the earth, there is only he immediate surroundings to adapt to, nobody is sinister and nobody is mundane, there are no Satanist, only the shrieking idiocy of apes I would smash to pieces—the intelligent people on this forum are not the people I encounter in my environment.

Having a lot of use for Satanism, I am not "a Satanist", I am nihilistic and indifference is always in the place of where something sinister might be seen to belong. I have always been one against all and do not get passionate about conflict, it is mundane to me and hold no meaning or excitement. Let me state emphatically that I affirm life, insofar as "life" having inexplicable positive "value". Why? simply, intrinsic affirmation. We see society's perceptual derailment of what is actually inexorable passive nihilism in their own lives. In we see that simply because I may epistemologically distrust most of what is openly visible of societal stratifications and social stratagems—I still highly value the human being—it is not man himself that I loathe, but that which he does unto himself. Nihilism is dimly understood and yet inexplicably felt and Satanism is something which is both actively nihilistic which enables us to affirm values in the primacy of our nature. There is always a lacking as compared to the promising plentitude that comes with the contentment of the the established, more intellectually plausible. I hear you say "Satanism is not nihilistic!" as to immediately make connotations with passive nihilism, which is not the same thing as active nihilism at all. If this cannot be understood then I'm on the wrong board.

I don't feel that any ability to intellectualise the ever growing and developing essence of our kind cannot ever live up to the reality of it.

There are only people. Satan is a religious word after all, God is dead and we are his murderers, I cannot affirm anything to be of worth being a Satanist, for or against what? as everything holy is already dead, everyone lacking will is already dead, only nature need be affirmed to breathe life into what is around us. What care do we for an unsalvageable backstabbing society. The nihilism in my life does not simply deny inherent value on a groundless basis but affirms the inherency of immediate reality—nature, therefore active nihilism is grounded in ultimate reality, my own necessity, survival. The necessity of the earth itself is adaptation, logical preferences, logical indifference to annihilate threat, affirmation of repulsions which are ingrained by nature, desire to affirm aesthetic beauty in life.

Who gives a fuck about society... I'll wreck those who would dare to impose on me, always have, with indifference, I'm not sinister at all but unconcerned with the morose predictability of the foolish, ironic yes but it's all wearing thin. Who needs ideology for one against all survival against the eternal recurrence? The horror of the warriors life is written through history, there is no need to formalise things.
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