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#4997 - 03/08/08 12:14 PM The Fall Of Democracy
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
When the thirteen colonies were still a part of England, Professor Alexander Tyler wrote about the fall of the Athenian republic over two thousand years previous to that time:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.

The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage."

Alexander Tyler

I seem to agree with a statement made by some wise guy: "Democracy only works with an enlightened populace." Human civilization has been around for thousands of years. Most of these have been political systems that are not democracies. Democracies and republics have been experimented with in the past, but they have not lived long. Then have fallen into military dictatorships and empires (i.e. Rome).

What makes America unique... if it is at all? The United States has been around for a little over 200 years - the average life span of a civilization. Will it continue, or are we witnessing a change as we speak?

I notice that the more years passes the more stupid and dumb the common citizen becomes, eventually becoming nothing more than sprockets in a corporate machine. Todays world to me looks frighteningly like the black and white world in the silent film "Metropolis."

http://www.roguegovernment.com/news.php?id=2169

Sometimes I wonder what America will be like when I'm 60 years old. What kind of country my grandkids will be living in. We are we headed?
_________________________
Lux Ex Tenebris
Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


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#5027 - 03/08/08 06:26 PM Re: The Fall Of Democracy [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
 Originally Posted By: LUCIFERIFIC
When the thirteen colonies were still a part of England, Professor Alexander Tyler wrote about the fall of the Athenian republic over two thousand years previous to that time:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.

The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage."

Alexander Tyler

I seem to agree with a statement made by some wise guy: "Democracy only works with an enlightened populace." Human civilization has been around for thousands of years. Most of these have been political systems that are not democracies. Democracies and republics have been experimented with in the past, but they have not lived long. Then have fallen into military dictatorships and empires (i.e. Rome).

What makes America unique... if it is at all? The United States has been around for a little over 200 years - the average life span of a civilization. Will it continue, or are we witnessing a change as we speak?

I notice that the more years passes the more stupid and dumb the common citizen becomes, eventually becoming nothing more than sprockets in a corporate machine. Todays world to me looks frighteningly like the black and white world in the silent film "Metropolis."

http://www.roguegovernment.com/news.php?id=2169

Sometimes I wonder what America will be like when I'm 60 years old. What kind of country my grandkids will be living in. We are we headed?


I try my hardest not to get involved in American Politics, but this statement made sense. The United States is a strong civilised nation, but it depends too much on outside resources to boost the economy. With all the recent global happenings, I honestly don't see a great outcome for the United States -- based on evidence gathered over the last few centuries.
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"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - José Narosky

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#5051 - 03/08/08 11:23 PM Re: The Fall Of Democracy [Re: DaVinci]
Octavius Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 557
Loc: Left the party
The economy is truly screwed. I'm in retail sales and our numbers have been crap. My wife recently lost her job in child care. Signs of a huge recession are everywhere, despite what Bush says...his stimulus package will do little (if anything) to boost the economy and the decline of our western civilization has truly begun. I have always believed that the nation, and the civilized world, are coming to a crux soon. Without invoking any 2012 conspiracies, I firmly believe that we're headed for a new Dark Ages. Who will survive? Who will save us? No one. However, the opportunity is ripe for an uprising of those who truly know how to manipulate their will into action/reality. Will you fall, or rise above? Will you assimilate or dominate? The choice is yours...
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#5057 - 03/09/08 01:06 AM Re: The Fall Of Democracy [Re: Octavius]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
 Originally Posted By: Octavius
The economy is truly screwed. I'm in retail sales and our numbers have been crap. My wife recently lost her job in child care. Signs of a huge recession are everywhere, despite what Bush says...his stimulus package will do little (if anything) to boost the economy and the decline of our western civilization has truly begun. I have always believed that the nation, and the civilized world, are coming to a crux soon. Without invoking any 2012 conspiracies, I firmly believe that we're headed for a new Dark Ages. Who will survive? Who will save us? No one. However, the opportunity is ripe for an uprising of those who truly know how to manipulate their will into action/reality. Will you fall, or rise above? Will you assimilate or dominate? The choice is yours...


I agree, 100%. I'm not sure what the eventual outcome is going to be, but I'm sure it's going to be an undesireable one.
_________________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - José Narosky

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#5121 - 03/09/08 06:42 PM Re: The Fall Of Democracy [Re: DaVinci]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
Give liberty or death political suitz Im not nhere for their pleasing this is my society also everybody has swept inside their basement communnes choas magick sex drugz rock n roll or the line walked remember cash forever in this hicktown im in everybody lookz alike thinkz alike eat sleepz shitz alike a new way of thinking has to be brought to the round table im nocturnal
most of my art viewz get expressed at night along with some lucid dreaming nobody in the bible belt of dixie tn. sees any other viewpiont butjudge your neighbor feed of their flourshing energy and go to a man made structure to be rightous this is followed by dont do this but that that is this this is that one in the same, simple and plain vote for bush or hitler ,obama or hussien,leory or tool,babtist or free will,no difference 1nthe same play the shame game be weak to be strong,strong to be weak,physical to spirtual mental to insainity right or left behind whos totallly alright all the time recession is depression

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#5123 - 03/09/08 06:57 PM Re: The Fall Of Democracy [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
keep the rules simple if you believe in spiritual or not
we are all one when shit hitz fan. why have seperation of church and state when politicz are a dabate not to be abused as a power tripp. ive made some similiar mistakes that have cost me dearly
i want what the 4 fatherz want freedom from persuicution freedom
power hungery judges. freedom! political bitchez

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#5125 - 03/09/08 07:01 PM Re: The Fall Of Democracy [Re: Isaak w shipley]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
luciferific, very good speech you have inspired me!!!!!!!
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#5134 - 03/09/08 07:41 PM Re: The Fall Of Democracy [Re: Isaak w shipley]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
Isaak, what the fuck?

Firstly, you're not going to gain any of our respect if you continue to call us "bitches." Secondly, your words are mumbled, confusing, and poorly constructed -- so I suggest if you want anyone here to take you seriously you begin to correctly make sense. This is just my opinion, I am not an Administrator or a Moderator -- but it will be more beneficial to you if you just tame it down a bit.
_________________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - José Narosky

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#5153 - 03/09/08 10:47 PM Re: The Fall Of Democracy [Re: Octavius]
candyjesus Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 43
Loc: NY
17 reasons America needs a recession
Think positive, this 'slow motion train wreck' is good for the U.S.
By Paul B. Farrell Read More...
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"Eleven. Exactly. One louder."

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#5165 - 03/10/08 12:45 AM Re: The Fall Of Democracy [Re: candyjesus]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: candyjesus
17 reasons America needs a recession
Think positive, this 'slow motion train wreck' is good for the U.S.
By Paul B. Farrell Read More...


Hi Candy. I read your link; and here's a quote I loved:

"Economists love Schumpeter's "creative destruction:" Obsolete firms get destroyed and capital released, making way for new technologies, new businesses, like Google. And yet, nobody's willing to apply Schumpeter's theory to the entire economy ... and admit recessions are a natural part of the business cycle."

I honestly never thought about this... its like Order Out Of Chaos... or like Shiva's act of creating through destruction... like nature making new life from old decaying stuff?

I guess this proves the old saying "you see what you want to see," or "reality is 90% subjective, and 10% objective."

I thought we (USA) were going to hell into a hand basket because of a handful of objective observations i may collected which i guess I filtered and interpreted subjectively to mean that Democracy in America was Falling.

You changed my mind. Thanks for thinking differently than everyone else!
_________________________
Lux Ex Tenebris
Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


~~352~~


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#5201 - 03/10/08 01:20 PM Re: The Fall Of Democracy [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
Jeseth Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/24/08
Posts: 91
Loc: California
It's important to note that America does not have, and never has had, a true democracy. It has a democratic-republic, which is different from true democracy in a lot of ways.

The biggest threats to United States' brand of "democracy" right now, are the bipartisan systems which operate outside of the republic's governmental structure. They are designed to circumvent the checks and balances that exist within the constitution, and do so quite effectively a regular basis.

I'm a fan of Schumpeter's theory. My personal opinion on the current economic conditions are simply this: The United States has spent an unreasonable amount of money on Iraq, a pathetic, weak, divided third-world country. That money came out of our pockets, and we will never see it again. The sooner the United States begins to follow the advice of our founding fathers, the sooner it will be restored. "Trade with all nations, alliance with none."

Think of our countrie's economy as a lake, and the individuals in it as fish. If the amount of water in the lake begins to decrease, some fish are going to die.
_________________________
"Life is of no value but as it brings us gratifications."
— Thomas Jefferson

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#5207 - 03/10/08 02:33 PM Re: The Fall Of Democracy [Re: Jeseth]
ballbreaker Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 134
Loc: Toronto, Canada
 Quote:
It's important to note that America does not have, and never has had, a true democracy. It has a democratic-republic, which is different from true democracy in a lot of ways.


What is your definition of a "true democracy"?

Also, I don't understand your comment on bipartisanship.

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#5216 - 03/10/08 04:20 PM Re: The Fall Of Democracy [Re: ballbreaker]
Jeseth Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/24/08
Posts: 91
Loc: California
Democracy (or pure democracy) and republicanism (or representative democracy) are two different forms of government. True democracy implies rule by the majority, which is not the case in the United States.

As for my comment on bipartisanship, I'll elaborate more on that later.
_________________________
"Life is of no value but as it brings us gratifications."
— Thomas Jefferson

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#5232 - 03/10/08 08:35 PM Re: The Fall Of Democracy [Re: Jeseth]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
Why can't we just be grown up enough to just govern our own selves? Why can't we be adult enough to live our own lives and be considerate of others? What makes us wanna stick our nose into and control other people's lives? Is it possible for mankind to exist without a government or politics?

Edited by LUCIFERIFIC (03/10/08 08:37 PM)
_________________________
Lux Ex Tenebris
Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


~~352~~


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#5334 - 03/11/08 10:30 PM Re: The Fall Of Democracy [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
I though about it all this past few days and asked around. I see things differently now. Old people are useful, especially those into politics.

I thought America was going to hell in a hand basket, but it isn't. There are several reasons why I think its not, after some people pointed a few things out:

First- There are many countries in this world that depend on America for their national livelihood. If America goes under, then so will they.

Second- Many countries have invested a lot of money into America (like government bonds), and they'd be damned if America falls and they lose their money.

Third- The world is like a big L.A. where each nation is like a street gang. America (the most powerful of these gangs) will never go under as long as there is China, because many little gang/nations are afraid of China and depend on America for protection.

Thats what I know so far.
_________________________
Lux Ex Tenebris
Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


~~352~~


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