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#76778 - 05/30/13 03:04 PM Re: Islam : is it a threat to Satanism? [Re: Fist]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7064
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
Westerners who like Islam have never lived in the Middle East.


Are you referring to Westerners that have converted to Islam?

 Quote:
Westerners who have lived in the Middle East see Islam as retrograde ideology with no positive outcome.


How does this account for the countless Westerners that have relocated to Middle Eastern countries (whether for careers or otherwise), live there, and have essentially become part of the culture?

Even if a Westerner has that point of view, isn't it because they can not relate to the cultural values and/or ideologies held by Islamics? What about places like Myanmar, where it seems the Buddhists are the Radicals and the Muslims are in fear of their lives?

 Quote:
People who have never been in the military like to make lots of assumptions about the military.


Sure, a lot of that goes on but there's also plenty to be observant of to form opinions and make judgments. Especially those that are Spouses and family members. Aren't people that serve in the Military biased anyway?

 Quote:
People who have never lived in the Middle East like to project their own world view onto Islam.


Sure they do, they are only getting a second-hand account of the culture. Even if a person has been to the Middle East, how does that differ aside eye-witnessing the culture itself? Aren't visitors still projecting their own ideologies towards it and the people that live there?
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#77086 - 06/12/13 06:53 PM Re: Islam : is it a threat to Satanism? [Re: SIN3]
Azrael999 Offline
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Registered: 05/20/13
Posts: 66
Islam and the like extremist,,take aviewpoint into doing and using religious as a defense...This in turn lets them take out their hate for livig of war and just utter destruction to the will 0of Allah.....But that's just subjective metaphore for their need to take out they're hute over injustice and need for a plentiful economy....I've read many Qurans.. and its a book that speak to you as a son.....I understand were they're coming from......But im into the other side of things change subjects I study a lot of Egyptian books of the dead and of the books of the left hand path.....And yes I was in the military sooooo......

Edited by Azrael999 (06/12/13 06:56 PM)
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#77090 - 06/13/13 05:08 AM Re: Islam : is it a threat to Satanism? [Re: Azrael999]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7064
Loc: Virginia
How is that any different from any person that uses 'religion' as a veil for their own underlying agenda? Some of these American Pro-Lifers can go extreme. On one hand they scream from the Roof-tops about the sanctity of life and on the other, killing an Abortion Doctor is doing the work of their mighty principals.

The American 'Jihadist' can be just as absurd, even more-so under the guise of politicking some war against women.
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#77106 - 06/13/13 02:44 PM Re: Islam : is it a threat to Satanism? [Re: SIN3]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
It is worth noting that the Xrazy Xtians do not kill people at anywhere near the rate that Muslims routinely do. Honor killings, rape of women not wearing a burka, revenge killings, the usual bombings of civilian targets, the list goes on. It seems like you are trying very hard to not see the obvious problem.
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#77115 - 06/13/13 08:27 PM Re: Islam : is it a threat to Satanism? [Re: Fist]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7064
Loc: Virginia
Don't they though? A long history of killings in fact. Today you can reference the murder rates and never mind that over 80% of the world's serial killers are from the U.S. (check their religious persuasion). They also don't have to be crazy to kill or oppress.

Seems you are working really hard to convince me that Islam is far more threatening than any other group in human history. I'm merely pointing out cultural differences that Americans take issue with. Getting back to the original topic, Islam a threat to Satanism? You don't find that notion absurd?

As far as women go, they have to liberate themselves just as women have in their respective countries (and want to in the first place). And have a closer look at the response to FEMEN, not exactly gaining support from women in Islam. In fact, they have become Anti-FEMEN because European women can't identify with their culture. While the headlines highlight 'cases', there are still a greater number of women that protect their cultural values and don't feel oppressed by it. There's small movements forming and more women are seeking equal footing with men. It doesn't happen over night, it certainly didn't happen that way in the U.S. and we're a much younger nation. You are talking about thousands of years of culture vs. a few hundred years.

People are screaming about Islam invading the U.S. and changing the culture, how is it any different from the U.S. imposing its values onto Middle Eastern countries?

If I'm not in agreement with you it's because I see it from a different angle.
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#77120 - 06/14/13 03:44 AM Re: Islam : is it a threat to Satanism? [Re: SIN3]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3259
 Quote:
Today you can reference the murder rates and never mind that over 80% of the world's serial killers are from the U.S. (check their religious persuasion). They also don't have to be crazy to kill or oppress.

Hold on just a second here. It's worthwhile to know a murder is called a murder by society when it concerns an unlawful killing, or in common law as "a public wrong". Which means many acts, by our own Western standards, go unnoticed in the Middle east and North-Africa by the difference of public acceptance/good.

If Sharia law is accepted in different communities and where, for example, a woman is killed by her brother due to dishonoring the family by having slept with a "non-believer" (or even someone from outside the tribe), we're not talking murder by their own standards. If all such cases are taken into those beloved statistics, then the US will look like a very safe kindergarten with a low rate of bullies.

 Quote:
Seems you are working really hard to convince me that Islam is far more threatening than any other group in human history.

Perhaps not in history but in present time it is (when it concerns marginalization of current Western society and is a step back towards middle aged thinking).


Edited by Dimitri (06/14/13 03:49 AM)
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#77121 - 06/14/13 06:43 AM Re: Islam : is it a threat to Satanism? [Re: Dimitri]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
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The same applies in the U.S., it has standards for what constitutes murder, and a kill. By the numbers, if we include the number of people killed in military operations then that frames it in the same manner.

Which Western Nations have accepted Sharia Law into local culture?
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#77124 - 06/14/13 07:14 AM Re: Islam : is it a threat to Satanism? [Re: SIN3]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
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 Quote:
The same applies in the U.S., it has standards for what constitutes murder, and a kill. By the numbers, if we include the number of people killed in military operations then that frames it in the same manner.

I suppose the Arab spring is something that went over the head..
There's indication Islam played part as a motivator . Yet there's also the seldom media covered war between Islamists and Hindus. " click ". A religion of peace? A non-thread? I fail to belief so...
There's also small lists of current wars where Islam is involved..
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#77127 - 06/14/13 07:55 AM Re: Islam : is it a threat to Satanism? [Re: Dimitri]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
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Loc: Virginia
No, actually it didn't. And there was a time when the world focused on Russia as the enemy involved in all sorts of diabolical deeds. Recently, Korea has been rising in the public awareness. Islamic focus is telling of a genuine fear. What are you afraid of?
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#77129 - 06/14/13 08:27 AM Re: Islam : is it a threat to Satanism? [Re: SIN3]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
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Fear is only wasted to those who don't know what they're up against or have made a wrong assessment to the nature of the thing. Back in the day, when communism was the great evil and Mother Russia the main breeding ground, there were actual plans and investigations going round. The tensions were real and diplomatic skills between the two treasured. The only thing needed to break the ice was a diplomatic incident and a slightly stronger Russian economy.

Sure there was fear-mongering at both sides. But that's just psychological warfare to you. (And I believe we have a professional concerning mindwar here).

The excuse of fear is an ignorant one to cast and moreover shows a lack of perspective and actual state of affairs.


Edited by Dimitri (06/14/13 08:30 AM)
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#77134 - 06/14/13 02:05 PM Re: Islam : is it a threat to Satanism? [Re: SIN3]
Le Deluge Offline
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Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
 Originally Posted By: SIN3

As far as women go, they have to liberate themselves just as women have in their respective countries (and want to in the first place). And have a closer look at the response to FEMEN, not exactly gaining support from women in Islam. In fact, they have become Anti-FEMEN because European women can't identify with their culture.


Extra points for mentioning FEMEN ! I was following them a bit during the Anti-Putin protests. At this point, I think they protest just to protest. They won't gain traction in the islamic world. We'll have to start a new thread on islam proper imo. Azerbaijan / = / Al Qaeda etc.


Edited by Le Deluge (06/14/13 02:07 PM)
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#77136 - 06/14/13 02:13 PM Re: Islam : is it a threat to Satanism? [Re: Dimitri]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7064
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
The excuse of fear is an ignorant one to cast and moreover shows a lack of perspective and actual state of affairs.


Is that so? You have perspective, the next 100 people have perspective... And what does that mean at the end of the day? The actual state of affairs appear to be in a state of fear.
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#77137 - 06/14/13 02:34 PM Re: Islam : is it a threat to Satanism? [Re: Le Deluge]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7064
Loc: Virginia
Last report I read, some of the women of FEMEN got 2 months in Jail. Compared to the punk Pussy Riot, all (3) got 2 years. Some women feel the hit is worth it if it reshapes cultural views. One of the women is a mother, I suppose she'll have to work that out with her child.

Islam contains radicalism, much like any religion (Christianity and Judaism among them). It doesn't mean the entire population of Muslims are radical or involved in political wars. In Myanmar the Buddhists are terrorizing the Islamics. All you have to do is pan the camera and you'll find that most of the world's oldest continuing religions have splintered, war with each other, and run amok trying to convert people to their way of life. In the U.S. those arguments are usually more visible in political arenas. It (U.S.) also has its share of radicals, cults,plenty of its own violence and an oppressive government. It makes me laugh when people point to the Middle East and cry about the poor oppressed people. Check the daily news, there's a rape and murder in American every day, the more high-profile cases just get more press. Mass Shootings, Serial Murder, Rapes, Criminal Child Abuse, etc. etc. etc. All the while the U.S. has its dirty little finger in the conflicts of other nations as leverage for Trade Agreements and Allied forces. Most people are only mildly aware of the Legislation that passes every day so that Americans can feel all safe and secure watching TERRORISM on tv, right? Never mind the volumes of it used in our own country to keep people humble little slaves.

So excuse me if I'm not chewing cud with the herd and don't believe that my freedom and democracy is being defended. I see things differently.

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#77138 - 06/14/13 02:44 PM Re: Islam : is it a threat to Satanism? [Re: SIN3]
Le Deluge Offline
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Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
The Pussy Riot case was a travesty. Even Medvedev and several Orthodox officials were for commuting their sentences. I don't know that I believe my freedom will ever be defended by others. There is change afoot in Russia though. Subtle. It will take years. As the economy grows there, it will become more visible.
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#77139 - 06/14/13 02:52 PM Re: Islam : is it a threat to Satanism? [Re: Le Deluge]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7064
Loc: Virginia
Yeah, people are still protesting on their behalf but I doubt it will have any effect in the long run. After 2 years in the clink, people will have long forgotten all about them. Madonna promoted them at her concert in Moscow and the public officials just called her a slut. Her concerts in Russia usually bring controversy anyway, the Pussy Riot support was just a cherry on top.

See also: Pussy Riot Documentary on HBO

There's changes happening all over Europe, some positive and some negative. It really depends on the country.



Edited by SIN3 (06/14/13 03:08 PM)
Edit Reason: added link to documentary
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