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#50781 - 03/10/11 11:19 PM Sometimes I wish Satan did exist.
Adversary Bass Offline
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Registered: 07/20/10
Posts: 13
Loc: USA
Currently I define my religion as Atheism and my philosophy as Satanism. However, I occasionally find myself wondering: What if the Prince of Darkness really exists? How would it affect me and my life? What could I gain from having a supernatural ally?

I have read through several books and many websites about theistic Satanism, and I feel that I would be very happy to have a deity to respect and ally myself with. However, I just can't make the leap into theistic thought right now.

Has anyone else here ever felt this way? Sorry if I'm rambling, I'm thinking as I type.
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King and Prince of the Black Abyss, rise up high as I sing your song.

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#50788 - 03/11/11 01:22 AM Re: Sometimes I wish Satan did exist. [Re: Adversary Bass]
Tesseract Offline
member


Registered: 02/08/11
Posts: 190
Loc: United States
I don’t say it to be in any way condescending or snide, but the only period in which I felt “The Devil” might actually exist was when I was very, very young -- probably around the ages of five to seven years old. I naturally had a childish and somewhat vague image of The Devil: red skin, cloven hooves for feet, barbed tail. However, in my mind this entity wasn’t frightening or menacing in any way; I considered him to be the opposite of the christian god, and a being that lived underground in a Hell that was simply comprised of a lot of strange, neat caverns.

During this time I had the vague notion that if god and the Devil did truly exist, god was probably weak and boring, but the Devil seemed mysterious and interesting, and so, if there would ever come a time when I’d have to choose between following one of them, it would be Satan.

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#50789 - 03/11/11 01:26 AM Re: Sometimes I wish Satan did exist. [Re: Adversary Bass]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
The Devil exists. Look around you. Suns are born and explode. The human race swells up in Promethean grandeur at one moment and wails in genocidal annihilation the next. Animals fight, breed, and die. The cosmos is absolutely brimming with chaos. If this isn't Satanas, I don't know what is.

Sure, he may not be the red-horned soul-swapping cat the Church has inadvertently made him out to be, but the reality is much more impressive. Satan is the awesome and terrifying quintessence of unbridled and ultimately incomprehensible chaos. Don't settle for a cheap anthropomorphic imitation inbred by theistic ignorance.


Edited by The Zebu (03/11/11 01:34 AM)
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#50792 - 03/11/11 01:56 AM Re: Sometimes I wish Satan did exist. [Re: The Zebu]
Tesseract Offline
member


Registered: 02/08/11
Posts: 190
Loc: United States
Right -- as I wrote, the only time I vaguely believed in the possibility of “a cheap anthropomorphic imitation inbred by theistic ignorance” was a couple of years as a kid. Personally, I don’t equate the concept of Satan with chaos, nor biological/cosmological processes. Your comments are “poetic” (in the best sense of the idea) and certainly evocative, but to me notions such as Satan, Lucifer, the Antichrist, are more akin to facets of personal, internal, inspirational states of mind and emotion, as well as creative expression, when and where one’s life brushes up against aspects of a christian society that can create “friction” or pressure within one’s self.
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#50793 - 03/11/11 02:52 AM Re: Sometimes I wish Satan did exist. [Re: Adversary Bass]
Clicks Offline
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Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 114
Loc: New Orleans
There is something that bothers me about your post. You make it clear that you don't believe in a literal Satan, but you want to, and you are trying to. Why are you so willing to break whatever intellectual integrity you have? If you don't believe in a Satan as a being, then it's probably for a reason. Is the idea so appealing to you that you are willing to find any 'evidence' you can to try to justify you want?
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#50794 - 03/11/11 04:14 AM Re: Sometimes I wish Satan did exist. [Re: Adversary Bass]
Tesseract Offline
member


Registered: 02/08/11
Posts: 190
Loc: United States
It’s too late to edit my reply to The Zebu, and I had originally intended not to clutter up the board by posting a separate correction, and so sent him a PM. But, I feel compelled to also mention here in the thread that I forget to check first to see who was in the [Re:______] line of the post of his I responded to, and so failed to notice it was the O.P.

Still, I found his comments interesting.

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#50804 - 03/11/11 10:56 AM Re: Sometimes I wish Satan did exist. [Re: The Zebu]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
A while ago I was thinking about something similar.

As long as people personify what the Devil stands for, the Devil exists. Thinking about him as a one-dimensional character might not affirm his existence but when having his essence in mind, it becomes much easier to understand his reality.

D.

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#50807 - 03/11/11 11:50 AM Re: Sometimes I wish Satan did exist. [Re: Diavolo]
manofsteel Offline
member


Registered: 05/08/10
Posts: 153
Loc: Indiana U.S.
That could go one of two ways. Maybe if there was a God this is just his evil fucked up way of doing things and he is sitting back laughing. Or maybe it is neither and things are becuse this is the way mankind made things to run.

I really don't give a shit either way but I think we know that nature is here and so are we, I think satan is our mindset, at least mine. Given the fucked up world we live in now we either give in or stand up and be who we want to be.

People are so scared of being unpopular and for what? Be who you are and people will admire you for it.


Edited by manofsteel (03/11/11 11:51 AM)
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#50813 - 03/11/11 08:35 PM Re: Sometimes I wish Satan did exist. [Re: Clicks]
Adversary Bass Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/20/10
Posts: 13
Loc: USA
 Originally Posted By: Clicks
There is something that bothers me about your post. You make it clear that you don't believe in a literal Satan, but you want to, and you are trying to. Why are you so willing to break whatever intellectual integrity you have? If you don't believe in a Satan as a being, then it's probably for a reason. Is the idea so appealing to you that you are willing to find any 'evidence' you can to try to justify you want?


I would hardly say that I am searching for evidence of Satan, and if I was, I would have found it by now. My girlfriend is a christian, although not a "hardcore" or evangelical one, and whenever something goes wrong she just trusts her god to handle it. Maybe things would be easier if I could simply place my faith in a omnipotent deity that is watching out for my well-being, but Satanism is not about being the easy way out.

While the weak flock of Jesus can follow him blindly and believe they are taken care of, we must walk alone. We may face some challenges on this path, but through self reliance we can prevail in our lives.
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King and Prince of the Black Abyss, rise up high as I sing your song.

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#50838 - 03/12/11 07:40 PM Re: Sometimes I wish Satan did exist. [Re: Adversary Bass]
paolo sette Offline
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Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
The reason it is important for us to understand the true nature of Satan (et al.) transcends both existence and non-existence is that all of the suffering in the world comes from either: 1) the thought that there is something, or 2) the thought that there is nothing. Plainly put, the reason for Satan's existence and non-existence is to stimulate suffering. For example, people who are materially wealthy have the suffering that goes along with having many things: the suffering related to existence (Satan). While people who are markedly poor have the suffering that comes from not having enough: the suffering related to non-existence (Satan). That the prolific rich and abject poor both suffer shows that neither type of suffering truly exists (Satan).

If suffering truly came from having material things, then the rich would suffer but the poor would not. Likewise, if suffering truly came from not having material things, then the poor would suffer but the rich would not. Since both the rich and poor suffer, this shows that their suffering has no real cause or inherent existence---that it is just the projection of conceptual Mind: Satan.

666
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tathagata-svapratyatma-aryajnana-adhigama
666
[nig]-ge-na-da a-ba in-da-di nam-ti i-u-tu

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#50860 - 03/13/11 05:48 AM Re: Sometimes I wish Satan did exist. [Re: paolo sette]
Woland Moderator Offline
Seasoned
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 764
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Dear paolo sette.

I've never read such bullshit.

Well; actually I have, and far to often for my liking.

Pseudo-intellectual wanking is best done in private...
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Woland

Contra Mundum!

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#50862 - 03/13/11 08:46 AM Re: Sometimes I wish Satan did exist. [Re: Woland]
Kerriss Offline
lurker


Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 4
how can one be Atheist when it is a position you take, you act as if Atheism is a personal notion or title of definition for the person you are

what is Atheism? what is gnosticism? I am gnostic. Try to ask me why.......

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#50863 - 03/13/11 09:10 AM Re: Sometimes I wish Satan did exist. [Re: paolo sette]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
 Originally Posted By: paolo sette
The reason it is important for us to understand the true nature of Satan (et al.) transcends both existence and non-existence is that all of the suffering in the world comes from either: 1) the thought that there is something, or 2) the thought that there is nothing. Plainly put, the reason for Satan's existence and non-existence is to stimulate suffering. For example, people who are materially wealthy have the suffering that goes along with having many things: the suffering related to existence (Satan). While people who are markedly poor have the suffering that comes from not having enough: the suffering related to non-existence (Satan). That the prolific rich and abject poor both suffer shows that neither type of suffering truly exists (Satan).

If suffering truly came from having material things, then the rich would suffer but the poor would not. Likewise, if suffering truly came from not having material things, then the poor would suffer but the rich would not. Since both the rich and poor suffer, this shows that their suffering has no real cause or inherent existence---that it is just the projection of conceptual Mind: Satan.

666
Pseudo? there are valid points here. Let us take into consideration that the writer is asserting 'Satan' as not simply the advocate of suffering but that suffering is a consequence of Satan perceivable by man.

That which is described as happiness cannot possibly exist; for that the body is full of sensation, and that the mind sympathises with the body, and is stimulated when that is stimulated, and also that fortune prevents many things which are cherished in anticipation; so that for all these reasons, the notion of happiness eludes our grasp. Moreover, that both life and death are desirable, for the foolish person it is expedient to live, but to the wise person it is a matter of indifference; and that the wise person will do everything for his own sake; for that he will not consider anything else of equal importance with himself;

He will see that if he were to obtain ever such great advantages from any one else, they would not be equal to what he could himself bestow. The Individual ought to regard nothing but himself; reaction is indifference; and if action, so also is life, which, therefore, is in no way more desirable than death.

The wise person would not be so much absorbed in the pursuit of what is imposed upon him to be good, as in the attempt to conceptualise what is evil and put it to good use holistically. Anyway, this end is attained best by those who look upon the extrinsic causes of pleasure with indifference. In this we see that stimulation would come from that which is intrinsic to the individual. The emergence of actualisation from ones unmanifest potential having his Will to Power achieve it's aim is beyond moralistic views that have no place in nature or otherwise acausal realms.

That being said, retched contentment in a world of monotonous absurdity is not desirable by anyone remotely sinister. We must save the world from another ordeal.

His hate is incorporeal, primordial, pure universal desolation, He is beyond paroxysmal emotion of man with no discrimination of the target; dead, alive, sentient, insentient—all is meaningless before his irreversible inspiration—the anti cosmic impulse. He laughs at the slaves of corporeal matter. The desolate one smiles inwardly at suffering and death, for it makes him blithe. Open the dark subconsciousness of man and flood forth the disharmonic current to darken the collective world soul. As above, so below.

The endless dark aeon is nigh.
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#50864 - 03/13/11 09:30 AM Re: Sometimes I wish Satan did exist. [Re: Kerriss]
SkaffenAmtiskaw Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 1318
 Originally Posted By: Kerriss
how can one be Atheist when it is a position you take, you act as if Atheism is a personal notion or title of definition for the person you are

what is atheism? what is gnosticism? I am gnostic. Try to ask me why.......


Your post seems both ill-conceived, directed at the wrong person and poorly thought-out. Woland never claimed he was an Atheist. Even so, 'Atheist' is a valid descriptor. The word has a definition. Gnosticism isn't hard to interpret either. Ask you? Only if I could work up the interest.
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"I'd rather be right than consistent" - Winston Churchill

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#50867 - 03/13/11 10:05 AM Re: Sometimes I wish Satan did exist. [Re: Hegesias]
Phobos Offline
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Registered: 05/04/10
Posts: 50
Loc: France
So Hegesias said many things. Cool. You could have summed it up by using the word "ataraxia". And are you saying that this is some kind of gospel? I don't undertstand your goal here, you're blathering on and on when just a few lines would be enough.
Turn the repeat mode off.

 Quote:
Hegesias considered pleasure as the goal of life as was the usual for the hedonistic; but, the view which he took of human life was through a lucid pessimism. Happiness, he said, ought not to be the goal of life, because happiness is not attainable, and therefore it is supposed by modern scholars the Hegesias concluded that the wise person's only goal ought be to seek to become free from 'pain' and 'sorrow', yet no mention of pain and sorrow being the basis for what is bad is documented, Hegesias wrote 'he shall be the avoidance of what is 'bad' which is subjective.


Yet, this discourse was later replaced by Epicurus' thoughts about the eudemonic way of life he was a proponent of: the extensive pursuit of pleasure and the avoidance of pain, though all pleasures were not to be satisfied. This is the difference between "compulsion" and "indulgence".

 Quote:
That which was described as happiness cannot possibly exist; for that the body is full of sensation, and that the mind sympathises with the body, and is stimulated when that is stimulated, and also that fortune prevents many things which are cherished in anticipation; so that for all these reasons, the notion of happiness eludes our grasp.


This is true only when you think like a spoiled child.
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#50868 - 03/13/11 10:49 AM Re: Sometimes I wish Satan did exist. [Re: Phobos]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
You could have summed it up by using the word "ataraxia". And are you saying that this is some kind of gospel? I don't undertstand your goal here, you're blathering on and on when just a few lines would be enough.[sic]

If you cannot understand nor feel what is behind the writing, what is the use in making mundane accusations without knowledge to juxtapose? You have built a strawman for all purposes intrinsic to highlight your own opinion which has no relevance to the object of the two posts regarding the existence of a Satan whether it be an impulse or otherwise cosmic forces.

You may have not recognised what was asserted through comparisons made with what is the impulse of Satan and existential nihilism in the context asserted in detail which was attempted to be highlighted by the 'Gloominess of Hedonism' and the 'Anti-cosmic philosophy' which are both active assertions of nihilism, a force which seeks to breathe new life into even the most stagnant of ideas.

I do not wish to win a debate by persuading or proving what is right, instead the post is by design, dialectical. We preserve and fulfil our realisation by having it move over and into opposites. In this case you have attempted to introduce a new opposite 'ataraxia' which has no connotations with the realisation and object and thus the realisation of the original posts is preserved and fulfilled.

Your closing line was indicative to a guilt complex which associates your bias towards my use of example with what you yourself regard as immaturity. Through the cognitive dissonance which I may have asserted as consequence, you have created something very odd in your mind.

Put quite simply; peace is an empty stage of passivity for Will to Power to enter and assert itself.
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#50908 - 03/13/11 04:10 PM Re: Sometimes I wish Satan did exist. [Re: Adversary Bass]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Adversary Bass
Currently I define my religion as atheism and my philosophy as Satanism. However, I occasionally find myself wondering: What if the Prince of Darkness really exists?

He does, but not as the Judæo-Christian cartoon composite "Satan". See Chapters #2 and #4/The Prince of Darkness of my Black Magic.

 Quote:
How would it affect me and my life? What could I gain from having a supernatural ally?

Start by flushing all the equally-stupid ideas about "prayer", "obedience", etc. out of your head. What you are going to discover is, again, not any sort of cartoon or Cecil B. DeMille interventionist in your life or existence. He's only done one thing to you, and it was done the moment you came into conscious existence. What you do with that Gift is now your call. All you have to do is recognize it, fully appreciate its significance and power, and then apply it intelligently.

We are talking here about the "particularization" in you, by virtue of your universally-detached and uniquely-personal isolate consciousness of self. Consider this one of many such "particularizations" originating from the "general principle/Platonic Form/Egyptian neter whom the Temple of Set knows as Set.

You are surrounded by and opposed to the non-conscious, non-discretionary universe. Its processes and functions, unlike your psyche/ba, obey fixed natural law, and it is that enforced, inexorable, immutable predictability and regularity of the Objective Universe which is really what most people vaguely caricature as "God". [Within monotheism the Deists most accurately realized this, as did the Egyptians with their polytheistic neteru.] But this consistency is at once OU-powerful yet powerless to change itself. Only an external, separate, discretionary consciousness can do that, which is what Set gave to you, me, and every other conscious being.

"Initiation" is nothing more than individual awakening to this and consequent exercise of it in intelligent, wise, and creative ways. Noninitiates stumble and fumble through their incarnated existence using the Gift cluelessly and recklessly - indeed they are mostly afraid of their occasional reflective glimpses of it, which is why it has been "Devilized". This is nothing more than the fear of not being "safely and comfortingly" a component of that great, automatic OU around them. Conventional religions are thus in actuality rote/ritualized efforts (White Magic) to create the illusion of OU-inclusion or at least re-inclusion (salvation, grace, nirvana, etc.). It is all a fraud, all utterly useless. You cannot drug, punish, mantra, or monk your consciousness out of existence.

So your awakening to the existence of the Prince of Darkness is at once very simple and very intimidating. It means you are absolutely, utterly alone. It also means that you are inherently a god because of this. Gods have the ability and the discretion to reach out and touch/change the non-conscious, non-discretionary components of the OU. You can do what "God" cannot. Your initiatory Quest is to not fuck this up.
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Michael A. Aquino

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#50910 - 03/13/11 05:22 PM Re: Sometimes I wish Satan did exist. [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
paolo sette Offline
member


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
I'm reminded by your post, Mike (En-Rah-Hah-Set), of a pithy instruction that Katyayana once gave:

Existence is the view of permanence,
Non-existence is the view of extinction,
Therefore, the wise do not abide either in existence or non-existence.


The way that the wise ones assert things to be is that all phenomena are neither true nor false,
They are like water-moons.


Of course, unless one can provide "proof" in the strictest sense, and Setians can. If one can combine "proof", and empirically show that it is intertwined with metaphysics--space, time, birth, death, reality and existence: one has Knowledge that only a few ever attain. For example, the metaphysical principles of time and reality as they relate strongly to Set as interpenetrated with the Temple may possibly be: Some may realize that the length of time spent practicing as real. Some people may think they need to practice for long periods of time or else it is not really practice. Others may feel proud because they think they have been practicing for a certain number of years, and are advanced practioners as a result. Others may get disappointed because they think they have been practicing for a long time and do not see any improvement in their situation---they arrive at complete disappointment and abandon practice altogether. Still others may be in a rush and think they have to achieve something as soon as possible. Actually discerning the metaphysical principles, e.g. time and reality, in relation to Set frees one from the attachment and mental agitation that they most likely will cause an Initiate.

All these reasons show tentatively why it is so important to realize metaphysics with the nature of Set, and the way it is done is to use logical reasonings. Once one gains certainity in this by remebering it again and again will cause the certainty to become more and more stable; and, then eventually one realizes the true nature of the neteru (sp. ?). That is how the process works.

Ciao
_________________________
tathagata-svapratyatma-aryajnana-adhigama
666
[nig]-ge-na-da a-ba in-da-di nam-ti i-u-tu

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#50964 - 03/14/11 05:12 AM Re: Sometimes I wish Satan did exist. [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Kerriss Offline
lurker


Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 4
 Originally Posted By: SkaffenAmtiskaw
 Originally Posted By: Kerriss
how can one be Atheist when it is a position you take, you act as if Atheism is a personal notion or title of definition for the person you are

what is atheism? what is gnosticism? I am gnostic. Try to ask me why.......


Your post seems both ill-conceived, directed at the wrong person and poorly thought-out. Woland never claimed he was an atheist. Even so, 'atheist' is a valid descriptor. The word has a definition. Gnosticism isn't hard to interpret either. Ask you? Only if I could work up the interest.
you sound like a frustrated teenager, I feel no need to speak to you no longer

bye :P

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#50965 - 03/14/11 07:16 AM Re: Sometimes I wish Satan did exist. [Re: Kerriss]
SkaffenAmtiskaw Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 1318
Six months to mull it over. Please learn the rules and how to make sense in that time.
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#52086 - 04/02/11 03:52 PM Re: Sometimes I wish Satan did exist. [Re: Phobos]
Sarthurm Offline
lurker


Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 1
I was like that, Atheist but with an satanic philosophy. But now that i know Satanism more, i feel really conected to Satan, i can feel him. Somehow.

The longer you Think about the King of darkness, the closer you get to him, until you finally get to the final conclusion. He exists. But that's me, what i think, you decide about your thoughts.

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#52087 - 04/02/11 04:18 PM Re: Sometimes I wish Satan did exist. [Re: Sarthurm]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Sarthurm
When I want to get close to the darkness, I switch off the light.

I know that the great darkness exists, I see it, it is all around me.

When I walk in the darkness I trip over things and say Satanic things like "f.cking hell".

As I am sprawled on the floor in worship to the darkness I realise the meaning of stupidity.
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