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#59488 - 09/25/11 03:29 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Morgan]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Somebody who is terminally ill with irreversible trauma is not really living nor do they have any means to express the will to live.

Yet, for any living body, there is only "nothing" to gain from killing oneself -- the suicidal person will not see this -- a fixation in the mind; the self destructive actions taking place feel as if it will lead somewhere else better than the depression or suffering or indignity the person is experiencing -- death is not experienceable, but it will be rationalised as sleep or blackness, a place to rest away from what is bad of life -- but death is not experienceable -- there is no rest and no peace “life and death are thus choiceworthy”.

I have read that some believe killing oneself takes guts... cultivating a negative emotional impulse is not hard to do, it is what we endure that proves whether one is worth anything or not.

Satanists should think before sighting the instinct of self-preservation as the highest ordination because with such a focus [by viewing the highest principle of life as self-preservation] the essence of life itself is being mistaken for its epiphenomena -- self-preservation is an epiphenomena of the will to power. It is quite possible to fixate on a rational idea about killing oneself in that mindset, again “life and death are thus choiceworthy”

A living thing seeks above all else to express its power -- life is will to power; self-preservation is only a result; self-preservation is merely a consequence of the will to power -- it only takes a rationalised mindset to make the choice against the will to live -- then it's too late, there is no one there to experience even pain, indignity, suffering. I wish that those dear to me now should not remain unfamiliar with hardship to make them strong bellied for the times ahead.
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#59545 - 09/27/11 10:09 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Morgan]
Rivenstar Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/10/11
Posts: 17
Loc: The city of sin.
My Satanic view of suicide is basically the same as my view of Satanism itself. That is, if it is taken up by rational choice, then to call it liberating would be rather an understatement. Otherwise, the results tend to be rather pathetic.
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#59558 - 09/27/11 02:37 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Rivenstar]
Alex Crowley Offline
member


Registered: 08/17/11
Posts: 131
Loc: Johannesburg, South Africa
Once you get your head around the fact that there might be no great afterlife to look forward to suicide becomes a lot harder to go through with. If you're expecting the pearly gates to be thrown open for you suicide becomes easier because ending this life, for whatever reason, will lead to something "better".

Suicide just because things look bad now is one I don't condone. I've been there myself a few times. Sometimes when you stick it out things get better (and, let's face it, some people need some serious help before they can get themselves to admit that). Most of the time there's hope. But when there really is no other way, for example in the event of severe physical illness, then yes, I think someone can go ahead. I wouldn't want to go on living if I was incapable of doing basic everyday tasks.

When I get depressed I can tell myself: "I live for the moment. Is this how I want to live?" That helps me get over it and work on it.

In the end it comes down to personal choice. Some choose that way out, some don't.

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#59574 - 09/27/11 07:53 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Alex Crowley]
RAIDER Offline
member


Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 152
Loc: PA
Ending life without a real purpose doesn't make sense to me.....the ending of suffering is sound. Just feeling hopeless is ridiculous since we always have the power to create change.
Mental illness needs medical attention.
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#59591 - 09/28/11 11:32 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: ShadowSirius]
Wicked Satanist Offline
member


Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 244
Loc: Michigan
 Originally Posted By: ShadowSirius
I just wanna say that yes Suicide is weak, and along with showing weakness, it's also very very selfish.


Weakness is relative. The actual act of taking your own life is so defining because it's the ULTIMATE ACT! There is no second chance, there is no take backs.

 Originally Posted By: ShadowSirius
I know its not my place to say anything really since I'm new here.


Not true. You CAN say (type) anything you like. But to think you can speak and say anything without recorse is where the mistake has been made.

 Originally Posted By: ShadowSirius
I have tried so many things to take my own life and yet I'm still here.


This line in an of itself is simply amazing to me. If an individual wanted to end their own life, there is no humanly possible fucking way to prevent that from happening. What do you mean you tried MANY THINGS and failed? I simply can't wrap my mind around that statement. You tried multiple times to kill yourself AND DIDN'T DO IT?

You're a fucking liar. Brilliant. I refuse to say you're an idiot because to post this shit and wait for the reply is genious. A brainless zombie can kill themself if he/she wanted to.

 Originally Posted By: ShadowSirius
But Suicide is never never the answer towards any solution.


You're wrong. Suicide is ALWAYS an option. You sound like a tree hugging liberal. Perhaps your mistake wasn't in trying to take your own life but trying to understand life.

 Originally Posted By: ShadowSirius
If I got anyone mad then I apologize. \:\(


LMAO! You have just made my fucking week!
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#59724 - 10/03/11 03:38 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Wicked Satanist]
nocTifer Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 87
Loc: Khazakstan
50111002 XIV Blvd and Sulphutations

 Originally Posted By: ShadowSirius
...Suicide is weak, and along with showing weakness, it's also very very selfish.

This conventional response attempts to disempower others (criticizing selfishness) while it futilely underestimates the value of weakness (cf. Taoist philosophy). Your characterization is weak. You mean to say that those who take their own lives are experiencing moments of weakness, and of course to a certain extent that is accurate, but why this is a problem for you other than your intrusive interest is not explained.

 Originally Posted By: Wicked Satanist
Weakness is relative. The actual act of taking your own life is so defining because it's the ULTIMATE ACT! There is no second chance, there is no take backs.

Perfectly stated. Due to the religious interest in keeping slaves to the cult there is a stigma attached to winnowing the Herd of the weak and death-interested. There are two levels we can, as Satanists, look at here, and only one of these is the individual organism level. The other is the repercussion of unlimited reproduction without responsiblity. You get enough genetic material all over the map and we should become thankful when someone, for their own reasons, decides to check out.

 Originally Posted By: Wicked Satanist
...you {ShadowSiriius} can speak and say anything without {recourse} is where the mistake has been made.

Etc. A goodly number of those who become moralistic about others ending their lives (ignore the very rational responses issued here regarding inconveniencing their train ride home, those are excellent; we should be making Soylent Green Euthanasia stations, I tell you) have not only attempted but failed to complete the task with grace. These folks are generally psychologically imbalanced and spouting their morality helps them to come to terms with their ineffectual relationship to living and dying. I'd compare it with those who attempt to convert others to their religion in order to feel that they've made the proper choice, or those who suppose as part of their therapeutic engagement that 'they are powerless' (and sometimes imply that others are too) in the face of their disability (as with substance abuse). It works for them. The mistake they make is when they expect that it must work for the rest of us.

 Originally Posted By: ShadowSirius
But Suicide is never never the answer towards any solution.

You don't support your argument at all, you just blather your hopes which probably keep you alive. Look at it in comparison to a noisy radio. Turning the radio off, cutting its power, is never never the answer towards a solution? That's irrational. Of COURSE it is a solution, though it may not be the one which you might want. The urge to influence and control others in some moral sense is in part what has driven me to oppose some Christians and Muslims as they take imperialistic stands.

 Originally Posted By: Wicked Satanist
{To ShadowSirius} You're wrong. Suicide is ALWAYS an option. You sound like a tree hugging liberal. Perhaps your mistake wasn't in trying to take your own life but trying to understand life.

No no no, I'm the tree-hugging liberal. This person is attempting to lend the tree-cutters a hand by keeping as many people alive as possible, possibly extending it to sperm and ova and who know what infants. 'Pro-Lifers' they call 'em. Folks like me hug the trees, try to convince humans to take our lives with deliberate grace and forethought, cleaning up our messes and planning for the resolution of a life well-lived.

 Originally Posted By: ShadowSirius
If I got anyone mad then I apologize. \:\(

I'm not angry, I'm just arguing against your logic and values. I think you could benefit from some meds and a philosophy of ethics course. Check out Richard Dreyfuss in "Whose Life is it Anyway?" for a soft introduction. Move on to "Soylent Green" if you want a more mixed message. ;\)


Edited by nocTifer (10/03/11 03:46 AM)
Edit Reason: added IMDB links
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#59725 - 10/03/11 05:07 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: nocTifer]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
The problem with suicide is that it is still largely judged in the light of christian values; life is precious and we must endure.

I don't regard suicide as weak, certainly not the act because it takes quite some balls to actually kill or try to kill yourself. The reason why people kill themselves are often silly, or at least that's how I judge them, but even when, all I can say is good riddance.

But reasons not always need to be trivial. I will certainly remove myself if I'm no longer able to live life in what I consider a worthy manner. Life is not precious, it is how we live what has value. The moment that becomes compromised, death is the most honorable option.



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#59726 - 10/03/11 12:44 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Diavolo]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
I will certainly remove myself if I'm no longer able to live life in what I consider a worthy manner. Life is not precious, it is how we live what has value. The moment that becomes compromised, death is the most honorable option.


This. A thousand times, this. That's part of the reason I own guns; it's never too early to start thinking of an exit strategy.
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No gods. No masters.

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#60992 - 11/03/11 03:44 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
MikeAndsaddie Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 8
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
To each their own......if you wanna take yourself out for whatever the reason, then by all means, do so....I am sure the world would be a better place if a few people I knew would take action and follow the lead of many others that offed themsleves...Suicide is a cowardly act that is praticed by individuals who are worthless in character in my opinion, but by all means, help yourself
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#60995 - 11/03/11 04:53 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: MikeAndsaddie]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: MikeAndsaddie
Suicide is a cowardly act that is praticed by individuals who are worthless in character in my opinion, but by all means, help yourself


I'll check back on you when you're about 8 months into a cancer that hits your brain stem and you scream in intractable pain, or you're paralyzed from the neck down and can't wipe your own ass, or a hundred other valid scenarios that people suffer. It's easy to call cowardice from a place of comfort.
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#60996 - 11/03/11 05:20 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Jake999]
Alex Crowley Offline
member


Registered: 08/17/11
Posts: 131
Loc: Johannesburg, South Africa
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
[quote=MikeAndsaddie]Suicide is a cowardly act that is praticed by individuals who are worthless in character in my opinion, but by all means, help yourself

Cowardly? Have you ever tried to kill yourself? Clearly not. It takes a lot of guts to go through with it.

 Originally Posted By: Jake
I'll check back on you when you're about 8 months into a cancer that hits your brain stem and you scream in intractable pain, or you're paralyzed from the neck down and can't wipe your own ass, or a hundred other valid scenarios that people suffer. It's easy to call cowardice from a place of comfort.

Very well said, Jake. I'd probably choose that way out myself if I was given a set time to live or if I was unable to do simple tasks by myself, just because I'd want to be in control of my own life and death instead of dying in some hospital bed as an invalid.

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#60997 - 11/03/11 06:21 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Alex Crowley]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
My life is absolutely my own. Not "God's" or the states' or my next of kin's. Mine. So I shall do with it whatever I feel is best for me in a given situation.

Now, for the last 20 years or so I have had an exhausting, incurable disease (fibromyalgia). This makes it almost impossibe to plan anything ahead but it is not progressive or terminal and freedom from a normal working life allows me - during the few hours a day when I'm not asleep or walking into walls \:\) - the luxury of study and socialising. That's good.

However, so far as I am able to judge a hypothetical situation now, if I had to choose between existing in some residential facility run by idiots and unable to wash or feed myself I reckon it would be razor blades across the wrists first. I detest the thought of relying on others with whom I have nothing in common and being a ward of the state. That, to me, would be a living death.
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#60998 - 11/03/11 06:33 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: felixgarnet]
Alex Crowley Offline
member


Registered: 08/17/11
Posts: 131
Loc: Johannesburg, South Africa
 Originally Posted By: felixgarnet
Now, for the last 20 years or so I have had an exhausting, incurable disease (fibromyalgia).

I'll admit I don't know too much about fibromyalgia, but I was diagnosed with Marfan Syndrome a few years ago. It's given me a lot of time to think about life, death and the time I have to stick around.

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#61002 - 11/03/11 09:00 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: felixgarnet]
Vondraco Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 28
Loc: Houston, TX
> I reckon it would be razor blades across the wrists first.

No, no no! It's much more effective if the razors are up the arm, that is, going from the wrist toward the elbow. Simply across the writes is amateur.
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Genius by genetics, Hedonist by desire!

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#61008 - 11/03/11 02:02 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Vondraco]
Alex Crowley Offline
member


Registered: 08/17/11
Posts: 131
Loc: Johannesburg, South Africa
 Originally Posted By: Vondraco
No, no no! It's much more effective if the razors are up the arm, that is, going from the wrist toward the elbow. Simply across the writes is amateur.

Apparently you have to cut really deep to get anywhere and by then I'd probably have fainted from seeing blood. Believe it or not, I can be squeamish. I'd pick a more peaceful method - unless I was in one hell of a hurry. The Peaceful Pill Handbook was an interesting read.

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