Page all of 5 12345>
Topic Options
#50884 - 03/13/11 12:48 PM Satanism and Suicide
Project Atlas Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 14
Loc: Los Angeles County U.S.A.
After hearing the same story from so many Christian people I would like to hear what are the Satanic thoughts on suicide?
Top
#50885 - 03/13/11 12:57 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Project Atlas]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Personally I don't care at all. Let them do what they must do.

As long as they don't jump in front of the train I might be taking. I hate being late for appointments.

D.

Top
#50887 - 03/13/11 12:59 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Project Atlas]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

I say this out of the kindness of my heart.

Once you realize nobody (except maybe your family) gives a fuck about you things should really start to fall into place. Things like acceptance for what you do, who you are or how you look become meaningless.

Maybe you should go talk to a doctor.

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

Top
#50889 - 03/13/11 01:12 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Project Atlas]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: Project Atlas
Heheh. I see. So basically nothing wrong with it huh?


I myself don't consider life, or at least all life, as precious. Some people that die will not be missed. Others might even be beneficial when gone. There is no intrinsic value to life beyond what you grant it.

I've know quite some people that did commit suicide. Many for what I consider silly reasons but their elimination of the food-chain didn't affect anything at all. Life still goes on. The only one I admired was a family friend who drowned herself in her basement in two inches of water. That takes some willpower and I found that quite impressive.

Two weeks ago another I knew blew his brains out with a hunting riffle. His girlfriend left him after finding out he had an affair some years ago. That, and the fact that he himself couldn't cover the loans of his house, drove him to shooting himself.
I find that silly since the world is filled with pussy and selling the house and starting over again would not be a that enormous task to accomplish. On the other hand, he was a cop and a dead cop is always a good thing.

So no, I don't think suicide is a sin but depending upon the motivation, I rate it from silly to understandable.

D.

Top
#50890 - 03/13/11 01:16 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Diavolo]
Project Atlas Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 14
Loc: Los Angeles County U.S.A.
True. But I don't think it would matter to the person who killed themselves. Silly or not they'd be dead.
Top
#50891 - 03/13/11 01:17 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: ta2zz]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
@Atlas. Advocating death is a hobby of mine, if you wish for me to assist your suicide then please look at my personal bodybuilding pictures so you may die from envy as I have no time for a personalised session right now ha! See I'm just an asshole for fun, it's how I am matey with others who can take a dig at me too. Don't take offence, that's weak, just laugh and say something even more funny back.

In all seriousness, people are both very ignorant and also very profound. I would not keep concentrating on that fetish you seem so guilty about, it's only a fetish. You can be attracted to whatever you are attracted to, it's simply one of those things, who cares? you are what you are and that's all that matters you MUST laugh and see the humour in things. Bait people to laugh at your fetish and laugh with them. Have you not considered that the guilt aspect is what is making it naughty. I bet if you laugh at it enough and expose your feelings about it, it will all not seem so personal in your mind.

P.S. If you kill yourself can you come on webcam?
_________________________


Top
#50894 - 03/13/11 01:26 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Project Atlas]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Basically don't kill yourself, that's weak and not what Satanism stands for. I'll be your friend on here if you like, you have to take a joke well. Nothing I said was personal but psychologically designed to be evil for the sake of it. Was not about you personally Atlas, you are meant to laugh at the sinisterness and horror.
_________________________


Top
#50897 - 03/13/11 01:41 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: KristianCross]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
The Suicide Club was eventually shut down due to lack of consistently attending members. Everyone quit.
_________________________


Top
#50899 - 03/13/11 01:48 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Diavolo]
nocTifer Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 87
Loc: Khazakstan
Hi Diavolo,
 Originally Posted By: Project Atlas
...So basically nothing wrong with {suicide} ...?

Across the board questions are part of the problem with religion in general and its attempt to broad-brush morality into extreme and simplistic rulesets. Of course there is something wrong with suicide if someone wants to perpetuate their experience and is just seeking a means to escape their predicament. Their fantasies about future post-mortem existence and approval of (e.g. Hell's Gate) or forbidding from (most cults) suicide are incompatible with rational thought and empiricism.

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
I myself don't consider life, or at least all life, as precious. Some people that die will not be missed. Others might even be beneficial when gone. There is no intrinsic value to life beyond what you grant it.

Agreed. I like to grant it quite a lot, stratified based on how it is situated with respect to my species and the general biosphere. That stratification assists my experience in myriad ways. Like 'human rights', these fictional constructs are beneficial to a number of us, even if stupid humans begin believing in them as more real than their imaginary character warrants.

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
I've know quite some people that did commit suicide.

Note the stigmatizing language adhering like moral bits of flesh to a secular skeleton. One 'commits' suicide, as if it is a crime or a sin. I know you didn't mean it that way based on your other text, but the characterization displays the cultural attitude against which we should be contrasting self-determination and the realistic escape from experiential torment (as in terminal illness or unending psychological malady) that should legitimate individual choice by the competent of self-termination en par with abortion.

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
...His girlfriend left him after finding out he had an affair some years ago. That, and the fact that he himself couldn't cover the loans of his house, drove him {a policeman} to shooting himself.

Note the focus continuing on being moved rather than rational choice. We don't always want to afford those who end their lives with autonomous rationality and the selection of 'life ending'. Those who are conditioned by military and police are sometimes familiarized to violence sufficient so as to use it against others and themselves. A goodly number of those who go on shooting sprees can be traced to military training. Combine this with severe depression and you may get this result. Calling it 'silly' ignores the real psychological drama this individual (who obviously lost perspective as you've described it) was facing. He knew one way to make the internal pain stop, and was successful in doing so.

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
So no, I don't think suicide is a sin

The very idea of 'sin' is Herd-programming. Anybody who uses the term is either being driven as part of a Herd or seeks to manipulate the Herd around them. I didn't grow up with it in my vocabulary. I found it strangely alien and irrational. When people within Satanism began to use it (and 'evil') I dismissed them fairly quickly as either charlatans or progs yet unemerged from their Christian conditioning. I tend toward the same attitude these days, though I've come to understand a few helpful and rational ways of understanding the term in my own lexicon.

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
but depending upon the motivation, I rate it from silly to understandable.

Practically agreed. We are of similar mind on this, even if our language may differ.
_________________________
Troll Towelhead, Grand Mufti of Satanism
http://www.facebook.com/Tr0llT0welhead
http://www.gospel-of-satan.com

Top
#50900 - 03/13/11 02:10 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: nocTifer]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I use commit suicide since that's how it is written. I could have used “practiced” suicide but that might imply one is quite lousy at it and has the habit of attempting it weekly. Performing suicide would feel like an act more appropriate for a circus or sideshow.

Of course commit is regarded as negative by most, as in committing crime or sin but one should not let the common emotion evoked by certain words affect themselves.

I know there goes severe psychological drama behind most suicides but it doesn't hinder me from often finding the motivator quite silly. What many don't realize is that they have constructed the depressing world-view themselves and shifting out of that reality often takes not more than just realizing it as is and shift out. When you don't realize you yourself are manifesting this negative maelstrom, you will drag yourself towards the bottom. So yes, too often silly is the most appropriate word to describe it.

D.

Top
#50901 - 03/13/11 02:20 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Diavolo]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Look... suicide is simply a choice you ultimately have. I would say that in people who actually believe in the personal godhead concept, it's the ultimate proof of one's life mastery, in being able to choose to live or choose to die at one's own pleasure. And I would never tell a person that they SHOULDN'T commit suicide, if that's what they truly want... just don't do it because you think that someone else would or should care, or because your skin isn't thick enough to take life's normal "slings and arrows."

When people come on this board and start playing the "woe is me," game and start talking suicide, it proves two things to me. They want attention and they finally stopped getting it at the last board they trolled looking for attention.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


Top
#50902 - 03/13/11 02:36 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Jake999]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Indeed, it is an option we can freely use whenever we decide it has been enough.

I've known those who just stepped out, no clues given before. At one point they decided that was it and went. I also have known those who can't stop telling you how hard their life sucks and how suicide is their only option. They're still living.

D.

Top
#50903 - 03/13/11 03:20 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Jake999]
Project Atlas Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 14
Loc: Los Angeles County U.S.A.
Heh heh. Well I hope you aren't talking about me because the last thing I want is other peoples attention towards my personal interests and issues(sorry if that caused such an uproar by the way, I did not intend for that). It's an honest question mostly. I here people who commit suicide go to hell from Chirstians all the time so I just wondered what the Satanic view was.
Top
#50904 - 03/13/11 03:30 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Jake999]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
The religions worship death in self deceit for they believe there is something better to come of it. The Satanist may worship death as an ever present reminder that the time to live is now! my personal advocacy is death worship and chaos gnosticism which you can read up on yourself.

To Commit to suicide is only to prematurely end the cycle. The scythe smites all and we ought to learn the mysteries of Satan before the crossing. Giving up is to forget the struggle. Have an aggressive motivation and humour yourself, laugh at danger and be ruthless thinking you will die all the time. Be stimulated by the ever present allure of death, the unmanifest nature of death and the attraction of death within all manifestations of desire.

Nobility in natures shadow. The scythe smites all.
_________________________


Top
#50906 - 03/13/11 03:59 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Project Atlas]
Damis Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 60
Loc: England
The point of suicide as the ultimate exercise of personal power over one's life is an interesting thought. Although I can't think of many situations where opting to exit ones existence would be the best option.

Dia mentioned that a lot of reasons that people commit suicide is due to perceived problems in subjective realities they create (correct me if I'm misunderstanding your post). To me therefore most problems that people would see as making life unliveable can be fixed to a point where the incentive to live is restored. However when it's something physical as the result of say an illness or an accident and the result is that your quality of life is severely reduced to a level which is unsatisfactory with no recourse to correct, then the ability to remove yourself really is a testament to personal power.

Looking at it from a different angle, life is a struggle, we used to struggle for survival and in places we still do. However in modern society it seems that the struggle is for material gains and other aspirations people have that ultimately result in 'happiness' or at least a feeling of satisfaction with their existence. Seeing life as this fight or contest where the reward is what you seek, then by removing yourself from life just because you haven't reached your goals or have lost a grip on what you once had seems to spell one thing to me: defeat. However when it comes to the physical side of the matter it's the same as I mentioned in the second paragraph.

The SB says something along the same vein about relieving yourself of pain when it makes life no longer the great indulgence that it can be.
_________________________
Leben ist krieg.

Top
#50909 - 03/13/11 05:11 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Damis]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Yes, in many cases people commit suicide because their self-constructed reality becomes so real they can no longer escape it. Because negativity becomes the center of attention, it will radiate throughout everything and while something as simple as changing focus might be the required option, the emotional force convincing them that the drastic exit is the only viable solution becomes too hard to resist. They themselves have set up the stage from which they then throw themselves.

Some time ago, I discovered I had an unhealthy relation with what I consider weakness. Not as much weakness in the physical sense as in character. The mere idea gave me sweaty hands, made me uncomfortable. While the sane approach might be to sit and contemplate about it all, I prefer experience as the key to understanding. My method is what I call reality shifting or personal insight roles. Or method acting if you like.

What I do is shift my reality, reassemble it and redefine value. Myself included. I start to play the role of that what I want to explore and the more and longer you play the role, the more this new character becomes the real you while the old you slowly slides to the background. By constantly using the new neural routes and new behavior, they get enforced and at one point, you will forget you are acting and become that what you are pretending to be. I'm not going to bore you with the details and such but it resulted in driving myself to the edge, turning me into an emotional wreck.

It was not until I was at the edge that the old me awoke from hibernation and I realized I was merely playing a role. This was not real, and at that very instant, reality shifted to normal again. It is a dangerous game to play but I am of the opinion that what is weak deserves what it gets, even if that implies me getting it.

Besides it giving me a gateway to the minds of the weak and learn to speak their language, it affirmed my belief that reality is nothing but that what we construct and that simply shifting to another, might relieve us of all the negativity the previous was causing.

Of course, when not knowing this, many see no other option than to press eject.

D.

Top
#50913 - 03/13/11 06:25 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Diavolo]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1139
Loc: Amarillo, TX
Am I the only one that's noticing almost half the posts in this thread are one-liners? Just so you know, Project Atlas, those types of posts can get you in trouble. Consider this an unofficial warning before you get a real one from one of the folks in green. ;\)

I see suicide as an autonomy issue. If someone doesn't have the right to sell something or throw it away, he doesn't truly own it. If a man doesn't have the right to relinquish his life, it never belonged to him in the first place. It kind of raises the question--who did it did belong to?


Edited by XiaoGui17 (03/13/11 06:25 PM)
_________________________
Wir halten uns an Regeln, Wenn man uns regeln lässt

Top
#50915 - 03/13/11 07:13 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: XiaoGui17]
SkaffenAmtiskaw Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 1318
Kristian Cross and Project Atlas, consider this a formal warning; if you have nothing of substance to add, you might as well leave the keyboard alone. We do not take kindly to cheap one-liners, but prefer that you post something of value. Otherwise you're just cluttering up the boards.

Warnings are given once.
_________________________
"I'd rather be right than consistent" - Winston Churchill

Top
#50917 - 03/13/11 07:27 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: XiaoGui17]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1646
Loc: Orlando, FL
Agreed. Suicide can be a sign of weakness or infirmity-- for instance, if a person is emotionally unstable or cannot handle certain life-altering circumstances that otherwise healthy people would normally get through. On the other hand, suicide can also be empowering, such as if one is the victim of a fatal disease or otherwise inescapable suffering.

Sometimes the line between the two is rather blurry, and can often be a matter of personal perspective. I used to have a rather negative and scornful opinion of suicides, and even though I still consider it a weakness of sorts, I no longer consider it shameful or especially deserving of contempt. I cannot bring myself to objectively judge the actions of such people simply because it is their personal choice, regardless of influence or predisposition.
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

Top
#50944 - 03/13/11 11:19 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: The Zebu]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I'm all for suicide, if someone wants to kill themselves for whatever reason it is fine with me.

Some people say that suicide is weak but I disagree. To think about, talk about and plan it is one thing but it takes a little something to more to actually go through with it. Especially if you don't believe in an afterlife or if you believe your suicide will be punished with an eternity of torment.

What I find really annoying is the people who talk about their attempt(s) to kill themselves as if it makes them cool. I don't think anyone can try to kill themselves, you either do it or not. I went to school with a girl who once showed me the scars on her wrists to which I replied "next time cut down the road and not across the street." That was obviously not the response she was looking for as she said I was an "asshole". Better an asshole than an idiot who can't do something so simple.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#50953 - 03/14/11 12:37 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
There is no need to formalise things. Thanatos is the impulse of the death instinct. An obsessional love affair with her strange shadow. This will be known to they who feel the pulse of death beckoning them to commit, to devote to the dark. In funeral trance, the droning of razor through unfeeling clay. The light of day is hideous, the sky is grey smoke my eyes cannot stand.

The desolate heart echoes memories I wish I never had. I have had many near death experiences, none of which were by design, but I dare say nothing was as breathtaking as that place, and mine eyes are still in adjustment that lingers as nostalgia.
_________________________


Top
#50956 - 03/14/11 12:59 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Hegesias]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
If any wish to have a service delivered, I am free on most days. If one committed is willing to dig ones own grave prior and cover my alibi, I will arrive on aforementioned secret location to hang the committed individual at sunrise and perform the burial.

My fee is but only to 'service' the body, and only attractive female applicants please.


In all seriousness, I am wary of those who associate themselves with others when they are suicidal, there's nothing more agitating than a twitchy suicidal who leeches for attention, you think they they might freak out and make you kill them because you are 'the one' they have obsessively chosen to do it. I had one cunt cutting his face with a razor and telling me I was going out the window with him, I still don't know why I talked him down. I put him in hospital with a metal bar beating a year later because he was back threatening my families home with a large knife.

If somebody is like this it's best to persuade them by solemn eyes to commit suicide as quick as possible or kick them down the stirs whatever. An associate of mine made an attempt to kill himself, not in the fool proof manner I advised and sadly he is still with us.

I advised him to use the piano wire he has to make a noose to hang himself with at the summit of the electricity pylon just outside his home. Anti climax. He didn't listen. I'll probably end up having to cripple him if he shows up being all twitchy and unstable. Such a dirty presence, they are like germs. I feel the urge to wash my hands when faulty people try and associate themselves with me.
_________________________


Top
#50958 - 03/14/11 01:24 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Project Atlas]
Tesseract Offline
member


Registered: 02/08/11
Posts: 190
Loc: United States
This topic brings to mind a very good episode of PBS’s “Frontline” -- “The Suicide Tourist”:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/suicidetourist/

It can be viewed online, and in my opinion the program is quite good -- and even at points suspenseful and gripping, as the viewer watches to see what the final decision and action will be for a man faced with the options of quasi-legal assisted suicide in Switzerland, or the inexorable and swift physical deterioration caused by ALS.

My younger brother killed himself, leaving behind no explanation of his motives, but I do not begrudge him his decision.

Top
#50966 - 03/14/11 09:27 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Tesseract]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
My father killed himself. He was a sorry sight when he puked up all that blood. I had to force him into the car and get him to the hospital from where he escaped and stole alcohol. We found him again and took him back to the hospital from where he died a humiliating death, puking blood all over with a terrified and confused face like he didn't expect it or something, even though I told him this would happen if he didn't go on dialysis.

People think that they can go quietly into the night when they are alcoholics but this is ironic because the end result is a bestial degrading spectacle in my experience. So did a junkie I knew, he was showing off he had got liver disease thinking he could make amends with those who he had pissed off for years, he never pissed me off, I congratulated him for being retarded for which he was not amused and made threats. Anyone who leeches for attention wants to drag you down into their pathetic goings on so just be ready to deal violence to them if they won't go away, everyone has the right to privacy and if people want to die near you it's rude.

I know seven people who killed themselves over the last few years, it's boring and I just avoid the funerals now. If people want to throw their lives away and show off about it then they ought to do it far away from others in a sewer or something. Nobody cares about somebody who won't help themselves, it's like looking at an ape eating it's own faeces not knowing any better.
_________________________


Top
#50970 - 03/14/11 02:54 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Hegesias]
myk5 Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
Is death more frightening than growing old and seeing your body, perhaps your brain, break down around you? I think how you answer that question likely colors the attitude towards suicide.

My Mom killed herself to make my father feel bad (in addition to the usual depression), a kind of revenge suicide (it worked, I believe the guilt accelerated if not caused the dementia he died from). My Grandmother killed herself to spare herself the pain of living with ALS, she may have done it sooner rather than later for fear of losing even the ability to od on her medication (I think this was almost an assisted suicide, as the doctor did not have to prescribe a drug so deadly and quick to die from when overdosed). There were a few peers in High School that killed themselves (an 'elite' High School, it may have been over a low SAT score or other test score - some students lived with much stress).

Personally I think it takes courage to kill yourself. It also takes courage to live through pain. So I feel I've no right to judge.

Top
#50972 - 03/14/11 03:20 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: myk5]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Everything a Satanist does is dangerous and therefore takes courage. Humans do not fear death itself, they fear the thought of death. At any one point in a mundanes life you will find him making plans for comfort.

For the adversarial spirited, death is a constant reminder (or memory) that we ought to act while we can without inhibitions and limitations.

Mundanes will console themselves and one another with the phrase 'live every day like it's your last' in a conceited voice like they actually live like this. They don't do anything even remotely dangerous though do they. Are they living in the moment or settling for what they have at the time as good enough?

I'd like to think that all my appalling behaviour (especially years past) was with ethos but really I'm just stimulated by morbid things and this includes death as a source of inspiration. At least now I'm not an oblivious nihilist, well not as much as I was. Having drive even if it's negative is still inspiration if you embrace what you are in full. Active nihilism is a means to progression, passive nihilism is a means to an end.

As long as one is inspired and has motivation even if it's considered negative, he is in motion and thus being stimulated and alive. A Satanist never submits to anything.
_________________________


Top
#59424 - 09/24/11 01:25 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Hegesias]
Red Dragon76 Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 17
Loc: Wisconsin
One certainly cannot enjoy the pleasures of the flesh if their dead. Even if your life enters a low ebb there are still enjoyments to be had. If your under severe duress, refocus on very pleasurable activity. After a few orgasms of the senses, you may then come to your senses, see and feel more clarity, as in, rediscover the good reasons to continue living. And gain the motivation to change dire circumstances.
_________________________
"The superior human leads by example and does not require validation within a menial pecking order."

Top
#59442 - 09/24/11 11:38 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: ta2zz]
Wicked Satanist Offline
member


Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 244
Loc: Michigan
 Originally Posted By: Project Atlas
After hearing the same story from so many Christian people I would like to hear what are the Satanic thoughts on suicide?


I have always seen Suicide as a viable option. There is no way to tell what someone will do when put under intense pressure and if the world is a fucking shitty enough place, who in their right mind would want to live in it?

If you have outstanding moral fiber and can manage the pressures of every day life that's great for you. Not everyone can, and there are a lot of people who take option #3. (#1. do the right thing (man up), #2. do the wrong thing (commit a crime), #3. exit stage left)

 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
Once you realize nobody (except maybe your family) gives a fuck about you things should really start to fall into place.


You're wrong sir, just go a couple months without paying your bills and you will see who gives a fuck about you.
_________________________
Forever in Darkness,
Timothy

Top
#59463 - 09/25/11 01:00 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Wicked Satanist]
ShadowSirius Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/24/11
Posts: 9
I just wanna say that yes Suicide is weak, and along with showing weakness, it's also very very selfish. I know its not my place to say anything really since I'm new here. But Suicide is a big thing that is in our society. I apologize for having a heart. I've had a pretty suckish life. I have tried so many things to take my own life and yet I'm still here. There are people who care. I can understand why people would want to take their life. But why? Why would people want to do it besides wanting to get out of their misery? For those of of you who are considering Suicide all I have to say is that you would be missing out on so many wonderful things that life has to offer? Why waste something such as beautiful as life? Call me a reject, call me a fuckn idiot, call me a stupid bitch, call me whatever you like. If I get put in the hall of shame then I do. I'm not trying to get anyone mad. And I'm not trying to make a bad appearence on here. Since I'm a newbie. But Suicide is never never the answer towards any solution. I even almost lost some of my closet friends towards Suicide. And have even talked them out of it. If caring is for the weak then I'm weak. If caring and having a heart is weak then I'm weak. If I got anyone mad then I apologize. \:\(
_________________________
Beyond the moon and stars, between light and darkness. Darkness is what and where it lies

Top
#59481 - 09/25/11 10:59 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: ShadowSirius]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Suicide is a personal choice.
For some people it is the only viable option based upon their circumstances.

You don't choose to come into this life, but you sure as hell can choose to leave it.


Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#59488 - 09/25/11 03:29 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Morgan]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Somebody who is terminally ill with irreversible trauma is not really living nor do they have any means to express the will to live.

Yet, for any living body, there is only "nothing" to gain from killing oneself -- the suicidal person will not see this -- a fixation in the mind; the self destructive actions taking place feel as if it will lead somewhere else better than the depression or suffering or indignity the person is experiencing -- death is not experienceable, but it will be rationalised as sleep or blackness, a place to rest away from what is bad of life -- but death is not experienceable -- there is no rest and no peace “life and death are thus choiceworthy”.

I have read that some believe killing oneself takes guts... cultivating a negative emotional impulse is not hard to do, it is what we endure that proves whether one is worth anything or not.

Satanists should think before sighting the instinct of self-preservation as the highest ordination because with such a focus [by viewing the highest principle of life as self-preservation] the essence of life itself is being mistaken for its epiphenomena -- self-preservation is an epiphenomena of the will to power. It is quite possible to fixate on a rational idea about killing oneself in that mindset, again “life and death are thus choiceworthy”

A living thing seeks above all else to express its power -- life is will to power; self-preservation is only a result; self-preservation is merely a consequence of the will to power -- it only takes a rationalised mindset to make the choice against the will to live -- then it's too late, there is no one there to experience even pain, indignity, suffering. I wish that those dear to me now should not remain unfamiliar with hardship to make them strong bellied for the times ahead.
_________________________


Top
#59545 - 09/27/11 10:09 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Morgan]
Rivenstar Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/10/11
Posts: 17
Loc: The city of sin.
My Satanic view of suicide is basically the same as my view of Satanism itself. That is, if it is taken up by rational choice, then to call it liberating would be rather an understatement. Otherwise, the results tend to be rather pathetic.
_________________________
I do anything and everything Mr. Stark requires. - Pepper

Top
#59558 - 09/27/11 02:37 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Rivenstar]
Alex Crowley Offline
member


Registered: 08/17/11
Posts: 131
Loc: Johannesburg, South Africa
Once you get your head around the fact that there might be no great afterlife to look forward to suicide becomes a lot harder to go through with. If you're expecting the pearly gates to be thrown open for you suicide becomes easier because ending this life, for whatever reason, will lead to something "better".

Suicide just because things look bad now is one I don't condone. I've been there myself a few times. Sometimes when you stick it out things get better (and, let's face it, some people need some serious help before they can get themselves to admit that). Most of the time there's hope. But when there really is no other way, for example in the event of severe physical illness, then yes, I think someone can go ahead. I wouldn't want to go on living if I was incapable of doing basic everyday tasks.

When I get depressed I can tell myself: "I live for the moment. Is this how I want to live?" That helps me get over it and work on it.

In the end it comes down to personal choice. Some choose that way out, some don't.

Top
#59574 - 09/27/11 07:53 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Alex Crowley]
RAIDER Offline
member


Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 152
Loc: PA
Ending life without a real purpose doesn't make sense to me.....the ending of suffering is sound. Just feeling hopeless is ridiculous since we always have the power to create change.
Mental illness needs medical attention.
_________________________
DARK WOLF

Top
#59591 - 09/28/11 11:32 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: ShadowSirius]
Wicked Satanist Offline
member


Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 244
Loc: Michigan
 Originally Posted By: ShadowSirius
I just wanna say that yes Suicide is weak, and along with showing weakness, it's also very very selfish.


Weakness is relative. The actual act of taking your own life is so defining because it's the ULTIMATE ACT! There is no second chance, there is no take backs.

 Originally Posted By: ShadowSirius
I know its not my place to say anything really since I'm new here.


Not true. You CAN say (type) anything you like. But to think you can speak and say anything without recorse is where the mistake has been made.

 Originally Posted By: ShadowSirius
I have tried so many things to take my own life and yet I'm still here.


This line in an of itself is simply amazing to me. If an individual wanted to end their own life, there is no humanly possible fucking way to prevent that from happening. What do you mean you tried MANY THINGS and failed? I simply can't wrap my mind around that statement. You tried multiple times to kill yourself AND DIDN'T DO IT?

You're a fucking liar. Brilliant. I refuse to say you're an idiot because to post this shit and wait for the reply is genious. A brainless zombie can kill themself if he/she wanted to.

 Originally Posted By: ShadowSirius
But Suicide is never never the answer towards any solution.


You're wrong. Suicide is ALWAYS an option. You sound like a tree hugging liberal. Perhaps your mistake wasn't in trying to take your own life but trying to understand life.

 Originally Posted By: ShadowSirius
If I got anyone mad then I apologize. \:\(


LMAO! You have just made my fucking week!
_________________________
Forever in Darkness,
Timothy

Top
#59724 - 10/03/11 03:38 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Wicked Satanist]
nocTifer Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 87
Loc: Khazakstan
50111002 XIV Blvd and Sulphutations

 Originally Posted By: ShadowSirius
...Suicide is weak, and along with showing weakness, it's also very very selfish.

This conventional response attempts to disempower others (criticizing selfishness) while it futilely underestimates the value of weakness (cf. Taoist philosophy). Your characterization is weak. You mean to say that those who take their own lives are experiencing moments of weakness, and of course to a certain extent that is accurate, but why this is a problem for you other than your intrusive interest is not explained.

 Originally Posted By: Wicked Satanist
Weakness is relative. The actual act of taking your own life is so defining because it's the ULTIMATE ACT! There is no second chance, there is no take backs.

Perfectly stated. Due to the religious interest in keeping slaves to the cult there is a stigma attached to winnowing the Herd of the weak and death-interested. There are two levels we can, as Satanists, look at here, and only one of these is the individual organism level. The other is the repercussion of unlimited reproduction without responsiblity. You get enough genetic material all over the map and we should become thankful when someone, for their own reasons, decides to check out.

 Originally Posted By: Wicked Satanist
...you {ShadowSiriius} can speak and say anything without {recourse} is where the mistake has been made.

Etc. A goodly number of those who become moralistic about others ending their lives (ignore the very rational responses issued here regarding inconveniencing their train ride home, those are excellent; we should be making Soylent Green Euthanasia stations, I tell you) have not only attempted but failed to complete the task with grace. These folks are generally psychologically imbalanced and spouting their morality helps them to come to terms with their ineffectual relationship to living and dying. I'd compare it with those who attempt to convert others to their religion in order to feel that they've made the proper choice, or those who suppose as part of their therapeutic engagement that 'they are powerless' (and sometimes imply that others are too) in the face of their disability (as with substance abuse). It works for them. The mistake they make is when they expect that it must work for the rest of us.

 Originally Posted By: ShadowSirius
But Suicide is never never the answer towards any solution.

You don't support your argument at all, you just blather your hopes which probably keep you alive. Look at it in comparison to a noisy radio. Turning the radio off, cutting its power, is never never the answer towards a solution? That's irrational. Of COURSE it is a solution, though it may not be the one which you might want. The urge to influence and control others in some moral sense is in part what has driven me to oppose some Christians and Muslims as they take imperialistic stands.

 Originally Posted By: Wicked Satanist
{To ShadowSirius} You're wrong. Suicide is ALWAYS an option. You sound like a tree hugging liberal. Perhaps your mistake wasn't in trying to take your own life but trying to understand life.

No no no, I'm the tree-hugging liberal. This person is attempting to lend the tree-cutters a hand by keeping as many people alive as possible, possibly extending it to sperm and ova and who know what infants. 'Pro-Lifers' they call 'em. Folks like me hug the trees, try to convince humans to take our lives with deliberate grace and forethought, cleaning up our messes and planning for the resolution of a life well-lived.

 Originally Posted By: ShadowSirius
If I got anyone mad then I apologize. \:\(

I'm not angry, I'm just arguing against your logic and values. I think you could benefit from some meds and a philosophy of ethics course. Check out Richard Dreyfuss in "Whose Life is it Anyway?" for a soft introduction. Move on to "Soylent Green" if you want a more mixed message. ;\)


Edited by nocTifer (10/03/11 03:46 AM)
Edit Reason: added IMDB links
_________________________
Troll Towelhead, Grand Mufti of Satanism
http://www.facebook.com/Tr0llT0welhead
http://www.gospel-of-satan.com

Top
#59725 - 10/03/11 05:07 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: nocTifer]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
The problem with suicide is that it is still largely judged in the light of christian values; life is precious and we must endure.

I don't regard suicide as weak, certainly not the act because it takes quite some balls to actually kill or try to kill yourself. The reason why people kill themselves are often silly, or at least that's how I judge them, but even when, all I can say is good riddance.

But reasons not always need to be trivial. I will certainly remove myself if I'm no longer able to live life in what I consider a worthy manner. Life is not precious, it is how we live what has value. The moment that becomes compromised, death is the most honorable option.



Top
#59726 - 10/03/11 12:44 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Diavolo]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
I will certainly remove myself if I'm no longer able to live life in what I consider a worthy manner. Life is not precious, it is how we live what has value. The moment that becomes compromised, death is the most honorable option.


This. A thousand times, this. That's part of the reason I own guns; it's never too early to start thinking of an exit strategy.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#60992 - 11/03/11 03:44 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
MikeAndsaddie Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 8
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
To each their own......if you wanna take yourself out for whatever the reason, then by all means, do so....I am sure the world would be a better place if a few people I knew would take action and follow the lead of many others that offed themsleves...Suicide is a cowardly act that is praticed by individuals who are worthless in character in my opinion, but by all means, help yourself
Top
#60995 - 11/03/11 04:53 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: MikeAndsaddie]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: MikeAndsaddie
Suicide is a cowardly act that is praticed by individuals who are worthless in character in my opinion, but by all means, help yourself


I'll check back on you when you're about 8 months into a cancer that hits your brain stem and you scream in intractable pain, or you're paralyzed from the neck down and can't wipe your own ass, or a hundred other valid scenarios that people suffer. It's easy to call cowardice from a place of comfort.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


Top
#60996 - 11/03/11 05:20 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Jake999]
Alex Crowley Offline
member


Registered: 08/17/11
Posts: 131
Loc: Johannesburg, South Africa
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
[quote=MikeAndsaddie]Suicide is a cowardly act that is praticed by individuals who are worthless in character in my opinion, but by all means, help yourself

Cowardly? Have you ever tried to kill yourself? Clearly not. It takes a lot of guts to go through with it.

 Originally Posted By: Jake
I'll check back on you when you're about 8 months into a cancer that hits your brain stem and you scream in intractable pain, or you're paralyzed from the neck down and can't wipe your own ass, or a hundred other valid scenarios that people suffer. It's easy to call cowardice from a place of comfort.

Very well said, Jake. I'd probably choose that way out myself if I was given a set time to live or if I was unable to do simple tasks by myself, just because I'd want to be in control of my own life and death instead of dying in some hospital bed as an invalid.

Top
#60997 - 11/03/11 06:21 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Alex Crowley]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
My life is absolutely my own. Not "God's" or the states' or my next of kin's. Mine. So I shall do with it whatever I feel is best for me in a given situation.

Now, for the last 20 years or so I have had an exhausting, incurable disease (fibromyalgia). This makes it almost impossibe to plan anything ahead but it is not progressive or terminal and freedom from a normal working life allows me - during the few hours a day when I'm not asleep or walking into walls \:\) - the luxury of study and socialising. That's good.

However, so far as I am able to judge a hypothetical situation now, if I had to choose between existing in some residential facility run by idiots and unable to wash or feed myself I reckon it would be razor blades across the wrists first. I detest the thought of relying on others with whom I have nothing in common and being a ward of the state. That, to me, would be a living death.
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#60998 - 11/03/11 06:33 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: felixgarnet]
Alex Crowley Offline
member


Registered: 08/17/11
Posts: 131
Loc: Johannesburg, South Africa
 Originally Posted By: felixgarnet
Now, for the last 20 years or so I have had an exhausting, incurable disease (fibromyalgia).

I'll admit I don't know too much about fibromyalgia, but I was diagnosed with Marfan Syndrome a few years ago. It's given me a lot of time to think about life, death and the time I have to stick around.

Top
#61002 - 11/03/11 09:00 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: felixgarnet]
Vondraco Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 28
Loc: Houston, TX
> I reckon it would be razor blades across the wrists first.

No, no no! It's much more effective if the razors are up the arm, that is, going from the wrist toward the elbow. Simply across the writes is amateur.
_________________________
Mathematician by training, Philosopher by nature
Genius by genetics, Hedonist by desire!

Top
#61008 - 11/03/11 02:02 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Vondraco]
Alex Crowley Offline
member


Registered: 08/17/11
Posts: 131
Loc: Johannesburg, South Africa
 Originally Posted By: Vondraco
No, no no! It's much more effective if the razors are up the arm, that is, going from the wrist toward the elbow. Simply across the writes is amateur.

Apparently you have to cut really deep to get anywhere and by then I'd probably have fainted from seeing blood. Believe it or not, I can be squeamish. I'd pick a more peaceful method - unless I was in one hell of a hurry. The Peaceful Pill Handbook was an interesting read.

Top
#61013 - 11/03/11 04:51 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Alex Crowley]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
 Originally Posted By: Alex Crowley
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
[quote=MikeAndsaddie]Suicide is a cowardly act that is praticed by individuals who are worthless in character in my opinion, but by all means, help yourself

Cowardly? Have you ever tried to kill yourself? Clearly not. It takes a lot of guts to go through with it.


This is a quite normal case of argument but I am wondering if you ever tried to kill yourself so you know how much guts it takes?

What I am getting at is that it is different for everyone. Most people dont want to die but do want help. Even though one feels suicidal they dont really want to die. To take ones life is then very hard indeed.

Then there are those that are ready to do it for real. And yes there are people for whom its not such a hard act since they percieve it as the best alternative because anything else isnt worth it.

Top
#61014 - 11/03/11 04:57 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Tesseract]
Goliath Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 93
 Originally Posted By: Tesseract
This topic brings to mind a very good episode of PBS’s “Frontline” -- “The Suicide Tourist”


I haven't seen that program, but the final chapter in Taras Grescoe's book The Devil's Picnic is devoted to assisted suicide and "suicide tourism" in Switzerland.

It doesn't fit all that neatly into a book devoted to food taboos. But Grescoe justifies it on the ground that the patient's last drink is a lethal cocktail of orange juice and pentobarbital. And suicide is certainly taboo.
_________________________
An illusion--with intelligence! A malignant vision, with a will of pure evil!

Top
#61038 - 11/04/11 12:20 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Project Atlas]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2573
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
I found A. Alvarez' The Savage God an interesting read when it first appeared in 1972, and apparently it's still getting positive reader-reviews today.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

Top
#64185 - 01/29/12 02:49 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Cassandra Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/07/11
Posts: 83
Loc: Temple, Texas
I find it strange that a Satanist would consider or commit suicide unless they had a mental illness or terminal illness--something of that sort.

When I was in middle school, I thought about suicide a lot, but felt too chicken to actually attempt it. In general, I was a very weak person, not very independent--felt trapped without realizing I could break free whenever I wanted to. When I got older, I thought--well--suicide should only come after I've actually put in the effort to live life. If I were to do something so final, I should first pack up what few things I truly need and go hitchhike, travel, whatever--basically get away from family and live life on my own terms before I decide to end it. But even then, I was still weak and was almost unable to think for myself.

Of course that was a good 16-18 years before I stumbled across Satanism. I still have occasional issues with depression but it's nothing like it was before, even better than when I was on celexa/lexapro/effexor, I suppose because I feel I have more control.

To me, unless there was a serious issue relating, it seems like a Satanist considering suicide is a bit of a contradiction--it's like giving up, not being strong enough to remedy the situation (again, assuming it is not an actual illness of some sort).


Edited by Cassandra (01/29/12 02:51 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling errors

Top
#64188 - 01/29/12 04:52 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Cassandra]
bloodstar Offline
lurker


Registered: 01/27/12
Posts: 4
Calling people cowardly for committing suicide is kind of like calling a paraplegic weak because they can't compete in a wrestling tournament. People who are prone to suicide are more delusional than weak, I think. Weakness is losing interest in accomplishing the goals you have set for yourself. Depression is more like losing your sense of control in a situation. Many of these people are full of genuine passion but don't know where to apply it.

Anyway, I don't really have sympathy for people who kill themselves because I see death as a positive thing. Life is suffering and death is relief. And I don't understand why suicidal people don't just go ahead and take a risk before offing themselves. I mean- if you aren't afraid of death, you might as well go gamble away the money you've got in the bank or rob a bank or something.

Top
#64898 - 02/25/12 08:16 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Damis]
elion60 Offline
lurker


Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 2
Loc: UK
so...suicide is wrong or not because after I read all this I don't understand anything ;p <?>



One line posts are deeply frowned upon here... Morgan


Edited by Morgan (02/26/12 01:31 AM)
Edit Reason: warning/information

Top
#64900 - 02/25/12 08:39 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: elion60]
Erich Zann Offline
member


Registered: 02/01/12
Posts: 193
Loc: Germany
I can sell you the ultimate truth on that topic for just 250 bucks - it grants you instant knowledge about the question if suicide is good or bad. No own opinion or thinking required! Instant gratification. No money back.

---

@ topic: Forgive me if my opinion has been mentioned before as I didn't browse throught all the pages. I see suicide as a "final solution" when your own life constantly fails without any better times in sight. In my opinion this also applies for Satanists, but on the other hand Satanism normally embraces the own existence, so I doubt that there are that much Satanists out there matching the criteria of a totally hopeless life.

But if one chooses to end his life, I normally don't care (unless it's someone I hold dear) - this also includes the person's religion or reason.
_________________________
The Pledge of Allegiance does not end with "Hail Satan!".

-Bart Simpson

Top
#64937 - 02/27/12 02:26 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: elion60]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Originally Posted By: elion60
so...suicide is wrong or not because after I read all this I don't understand anything ;p <?>


Anyone with a bit of common sense would realize, whether they had read this entire thread or none of it at all, that suicide is neither "right" nor "wrong". Each person can only decide for themselves if it is their best course of action if/when it comes down to it.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#64971 - 02/27/12 11:06 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Lokian88 Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/14/12
Posts: 91
Loc: New England
If someone is intent on killing themselves I am indifferent for a few reasons:

A) It's THEIR life to take;

B) The end of their existence eliminates a potential rival on the course of MY evolution....THANKS!

and C) If they value their own existence so little, why should anyone else give a fuck about it?

Top
#65005 - 02/28/12 09:27 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Lokian88]
LeftHandonFeet Offline
member


Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 109
Suicide is a weak cop out! If someone honestly knows no end to their misery, I would recommend they stop and turn around to mistakes they have made in their life that led to their rock bottom state. Sure there are plenty of people that hit rock bottom because they were thrown on the ground unjustly and they honestly did not deserve bad luck - but one must make their mind and will strong against their adversaries by strengthening their weaknesses so they don't leave themselves open to harm. This practice of examining oneself in order to perfect ones self is vital to excelling in survival of the fittest. Suicide does not solve anything for anybody. To anybody who wants to send a signal or message using suicide to turn necks - if someone wants to listen to you despite you being a coward and not facing your problems, then I would not pay that person any fucking attention. If someone threatens to kill themselves, scold their asses, don't be all sympathetic and sensitive. That can have a serious adverse effect.
_________________________
"I’m just another hardline psuedo-statistic
Can you feel this?" Slipknot - The Blister Exists


Top
#65064 - 03/01/12 02:19 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: LeftHandonFeet]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"Suicide does not solve anything for anybody"

It solves all the problems for the person who CHOOSES to do it.

People do it for different reasons, medical issues, social issues, money issues, pain issues, and fuck it all issues.

It's a personal choice. I don't see it as a cop out. I think it takes a fair amount of balls to put a gun in mouth and eat it, knowing that is the last decision you ever have to make.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#65070 - 03/01/12 07:58 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: LeftHandonFeet]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1737
Loc: New York
Sometimes suicide might not be the smartest alternative. However there are situations where it is a valid choice because any other solution that a person comes up with would still have them end up miserable.

In the past during certain situations it was considered the only honorable thing to do, while in modern society, which is greatly influenced by the white light religions of the world it is looked up on as a sin, and since many people have been influenced by religious thought, even if they proclaim that they are not religious tend to think under some of that influence.

There is nothing wrong with proposing different solutions to people who are seriously considering taking their lives. However, to judge a person negatively because they have truly reached the end of their rope and find that no other solution would give them the opportunity to live a healthy and or satisfactory life might not be fair.

For instance if someone does not want to live in agonizing physical pain and there is no medical solution to their ailment, then how can a healthy individual make a fair judgment call for them?

Or if a person is to be incarcerated for a large portion of their productive life and can find no other way of escape and does not want to live behind a cage as a prisoner, how can a free person who does not face such a sentence fairly judge that persons decision to escape the only way that they know how to?

When a social and active person becomes so old that everyone that they cared for around them has died, or they find that no one wants to be in their company and they no longer have the physical ability or the emotional will to seek out new acquaintances and find that they have used up all that life had to offer to them and all that they have left is to sit in some nursing home to be cared for by strangers, how can a younger person who is still surrounded by friends and family able to make a judgment on this old person forcing them to live in their misery if they do not wish to do so?


Edited by Asmedious (03/01/12 08:00 AM)
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

Top
#65073 - 03/01/12 09:46 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Asmedious]
Lokian88 Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/14/12
Posts: 91
Loc: New England
As one who spent a significant portion of his productive years, as you have called them, incarcerated,( 20 continuous years actually ) I can, speaking only for myself, of course, say I never contemplated suicide, and held in high contempt those I witnessed "checking out" (as we called it there).

The irony was that it was not, generally, the lifer's who were checking out, those you might be drawn to believe had the most cause for misery on levels that might compell them to end their own lives, but more often than not short timers who simply did not possess the mental strength to accept their present circumstances as an opportunity to evolve (for instance, it gave me an opportunity to study on a level that can only be described as monastic) and return to their freedom one day more capable than they were before they went in.

The lifer's typically are quite resolved, often gleeful in their sub-culture status that enables them to not have to give a fuck about anything anymore. Cross them, they stab you, understanding there is no consequence left for them really, I mean, what'll they do, lock them up? If they are strong and cunning, they can enjoy an existence filled with many of the same comforts we enjoy outside the walls, again with no concern for whether or not it might be against the rules, for real consequence was no longer part of their paradigm.

At the end of the day, and obviously my opinion is colored by my own experiences, I reject incarceration as a valid excuse to end ones own life ( while simultaneously conceding the individuals right to do so...see above summary ) for no matter where we are, there are always opportunities for evolution and enjoyment, and even if you are that guy (or gal) with no hope of parole, whose spouse has sent the Dear John letter, etc, etc, there ARE still the fences.

Weakness, not circumstance, dictates who takes their own life or not in THAT paradigm, on that I can speak with some authority.


Edited by Lokian88 (03/01/12 09:48 AM)
Edit Reason: spell check

Top
#65095 - 03/01/12 07:31 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Project Atlas]
Ashley Corinne Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/18/11
Posts: 36
Loc: Utah
I personally would only kill myself if it served a greater purpose, like suicide-bombing a terrible tyrant or something. Other than that, I don't see the use of suicide. I've been suicidal in the past, going so far as to plan it out a couple of times, but I got past it and now I want to live!
_________________________
~Ashley

Top
#65108 - 03/01/12 08:39 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Ashley Corinne]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
I hope fervently that I do not spend my final years in a state that makes me yearn for death but unable to die due to legal restrictions.

Of course, being of sufficiently sound mind is a prerequisite for taking control over one's own life and demise, as is the ability to be physically capable.

So . . . if mind and body are working, why die? Well, if I feel it's not worth struggling on for a few weeks in a terminal condition, then I'll check out. My body, my business. What anyone else does is theirs.
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#65254 - 03/05/12 11:50 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Project Atlas]
Ashley Corinne Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/18/11
Posts: 36
Loc: Utah
Suicide is the ultimate act of cowardice, and cowardice is unbecoming of any self-respecting Satanist. If life is painful, a true Satanist will endure the pain.
_________________________
~Ashley

Top
#65255 - 03/05/12 11:58 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Ashley Corinne]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
Really? Why? They're not answerable to any god, and only to those humans they choose to be.
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#65257 - 03/06/12 12:10 AM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: felixgarnet]
Ashley Corinne Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/18/11
Posts: 36
Loc: Utah
Last time I read the Satanic Bible, Old Man Lavey was talking about self-preservation and living life to its fullest. You're right that no suicidal person needs to answer to anybody besides those who love them. As a Satanist, if I was in the room with another Satanist who wanted to kill themself I would say, "Go ahead, just don't get any blood on my dress." But as a Satanist, I don't see how any of my desires could be fulfilled by suicide. I'm all for weak people dying, because that means there is a lower ratio of weak genes to strong genes. Isn't that what Old Man LaVey was talking about in the first place?
_________________________
~Ashley

Top
#65267 - 03/06/12 12:24 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Ashley Corinne]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
If life is painful, a true Satanist will endure the pain.


A "true Satanist" would do what they feel is in their best interest.

 Quote:
Last time I read the Satanic Bible, Old Man Lavey was talking about self-preservation and living life to its fullest.


And if a person no longer feels like they are living life to the fullest and doing so is no longer possible, why should they want to continue living? Simply because "self-preservation is the highest law"? That's laughable.

 Quote:
. I'm all for weak people dying, because that means there is a lower ratio of weak genes to strong genes.


It's not at matter of genetics. As far as I know, no one has discovered a suicide gene.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#65283 - 03/06/12 08:15 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
I can't see why people would consider killing themselves before killing other people, especially if the unwillingness to live was due to sorrow, from not being able to truly live, for many many years. Only killing oneself afterwards, only to avoid jail and die with the memories fresh.

Still, sex is better than killing, and with suicide you only get one time to experience it.

Consider if we were immortal, pain would be infinitely more profound to what we experience as mortal pleasure, because there would be no threat of death, we'd be free to transcend the dimensions of pain and stimulation not possible as mortals.

I will suggest that the horror of actual suicide, the facing of black, endless deadness, is more stimulating than being alive in contentment. We just apprehend the sensation of pain and imminent death as somehow undesirable, because of the instinct to live, but the sensation of dying is like killing - more pure and real than anything happiness can bring.

Think for one solitary moment about your happiest moment, that one monumental time when you were most happy. it's gone, past, now all you have to look forward to is the opposite, or at best slowly edging toward that inevitability with a series of 'not quite happy days'.
_________________________


Top
#65284 - 03/06/12 09:18 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Hegesias]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1646
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
I can't see why people would consider killing themselves before killing other people, especially if the unwillingness to live was due to sorrow, from not being able to truly live, for many many years. Only killing oneself afterwards, only to avoid jail and die with the memories fresh. [...] the sensation of dying is like killing - more pure and real than anything happiness can bring.


This is the reason why every time you don't post for a while, I expect to read about some horrible murder-suicide spree in the international news. <3
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

Top
#65285 - 03/06/12 09:46 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: The Zebu]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
One of the ones who gets my humour, deadpan is 'the way to go'.

I'm just into criminal psychology Zebu, some, not all psychopathic killers often resort to killing for the intimacy that they can never experience with the sentimental normals in society, at least through any acceptable means - basically when the knife goes deep, so do the eyes. Same with cannibals, eating another person as intimate for them.

Concerning suicide. Guilt and shame and remorse can be responsible for people killing themselves. Another point to my usual argument of such emotions being dysfunctional. This is further put into perspective when we take into consideration that guilt, shame, remorse are subcatagorical affects of fear. Fear of what others will think, do, or even the uncertainty about both outweighing the fear of death. Animals are pure in this regard and do not commit suicide consciously.
_________________________


Top
#65287 - 03/06/12 11:07 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Hegesias]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Of course animals don't commit suicide Heg but then again, they do not lift weights either. What I imply with this is that they don't judge themselves or the situation they are in because they don't ponder about the future. As such, they simply are what they are, and do little but react. They don't bother with improving themselves as they don't bother with destroying themselves.

We all decide for ourselves how much we desire to endure and when we no longer wish, we no longer do. Everyone a breaking point when it comes to pain, be it physical or psychological, and the label satanist does not magically exclude anyone from that.

Even those that have a more traditional approach to the LHP have to admit that the path itself is or can be suicidal and even when they manage to survive that, at one point they realize death is the last experience left.

If there's little exciting left, why not speed up this last experience instead of living some more years of bore?

D.

Top
#65412 - 03/13/12 10:03 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Hegesias]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 862
Loc: Nashville
 Originally Posted By: Hegesias
Guilt and shame and remorse can be responsible for people killing themselves. Another point to my usual argument of such emotions being dysfunctional. This is further put into perspective when we take into consideration that guilt, shame, remorse are subcatagorical affects of fear.

I would argue that guilt, shame and remorse (synonyms, basically) can work either positively or negatively on one’s behalf, depending on what he does with them. Guilt over a poor choice can dissuade one from making a similar choice, and inspire him to make better choices, in the future. Or it can paralyze him to the point that he can do nothing to help himself at all.

It is true that guilt is a subcategory of fear, but it is also true that fear and anger are two sides of the same coin. I prefer anger, because I generally see it as a more active response than fear. However, fear can also be a powerful motivator. If I’m in a burning house, anger won’t do me much good. Run, Forrest! Run!

What’s negative is not necessarily guilt or fear, but not doing what you think is right for you. If you want to kill yourself, then do it. Others may disagree with your decision, but who gives a fuck? Certainly not you. You’re dead.
_________________________
In Minecraft all chickens are spies.

Top
#65581 - 03/19/12 09:27 PM Re: Satanism and Suicide [Re: Project Atlas]
Frumious Offline
member


Registered: 03/13/12
Posts: 102
Loc: New Jersey
Trying to talk about Satanists as a collective is fundamentally wrong-headed, I think, as is trying to claim there are such things as Satanic universals, or hard and fast principles of Satanism. If I am a Satanist, then society's opinions aren't necessarily mine - but that doesn't tell you what my opinions actually are. If I am a Satanist, then I have no shame or guilt with respect to my natural predilections - but that doesn't tell you what my predilections actually are. If I am a Satanist, then I am willing to stand alone as the sole example of my kind of human - but that doesn't tell you what kind of human I actually am.
_________________________
Would I lie to you?

Top
Page all of 5 12345>


Moderator:  Woland, TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.072 seconds of which 0.003 seconds were spent on 83 queries. Zlib compression disabled.