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#53097 - 04/18/11 08:10 AM Bending your destiny or future
SerpentEagle Offline
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What do you think the possibility of changing events, one's destiny and undesired situation through intention or projections?
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#53098 - 04/18/11 08:59 AM Re: Bending your destiny or future [Re: SerpentEagle]
Diavolo Offline
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Intention means little when it is not accompanied by action. No change is possible without something actively triggering that change or manipulating the very probabilities which might, eventually, lead to it.

One can intent or project as much and as long as one likes but if there is no real "acting" behind it, anything which might or might not happen is solely in the hands of others.

D.

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#53133 - 04/19/11 09:25 AM Re: Bending your destiny or future [Re: SerpentEagle]
TutuAkomma Samue Offline
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Dear friends,Gezahegn wrote:" What do you think the possibility of changing events, one's destiny and undesired situation through intention or projections?"

In the past, I thought I could cause a positive change in my life by ''good intentions''. Little did I know that I needed to use a balance to achieve everything possible in my power.

The much more you use your mind,in the same way, use your hands.Think and talk,but,work and walk your ideas.
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Wisdom is the correct application of knowledge

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#53160 - 04/19/11 06:34 PM Re: Bending your destiny or future [Re: TutuAkomma Samue]
tuathacoagula Offline
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Registered: 03/20/11
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One may be able to affect undesired situations through a form of projection that is manifested in ones actions. This has been noted by the above posters.

But destiny? Do you believe in such a concept, and on what level? I appreciate that one can argue that we are all destined to physically die. A memory of our live's may live on in those we surrounded ourselves with before death.

Under current scientific thought and observation the concept of Entropy notes that systems will move from order to disorder. Can intention or projection affect or change these, so that the individual can escape physical death or order can be made from chaos?

On a micro-level, I would say that thought and intention backed up by action can positively affect situations for the individual. This seems like a gimme. One must take charge of ones own life. But does this stretch outside of the individual?

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#55246 - 05/31/11 10:25 AM Re: Bending your destiny or future [Re: SerpentEagle]
Pizgatti Offline
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Registered: 05/27/11
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 Originally Posted By: SerpentEagle
What do you think the possibility of changing events, one's destiny and undesired situation through intention or projections?


Everyone wants to put a big magical label all over things. It all breaks down to some very minute elements. Before we get into that though, the first thing I would ask is "Who all believe in a destiny?" Do you believe that you have a destiny or a "future" unless you make it yourself. According to my belief and I thought most "Satanists" you are able to shape and make your own reality. In that sense, yes, we can change events. You have to get up and actually do it though. If you punch a random man in the face, your starting an event. If you slap a woman who balled up her fist to hit you like a man...your starting a different kind of event.

In the sense of "Magick", and sending projections it all depends on what you believe. I don't have enough experience with it to tell you if it works. I can say that in theory the emmitence of energies or thoughts might create an effect on a biological level, but once again I won't go into it since I don't have the expertise on the subject yet. I am going to start experimenting with this soon.

However, lesser "Magick" and manipulation of people is easily possible and I have seen this work first hand. This is what I meant in the first paragraph By minute elements that can change. If you knew a certain event was going to happen, or you suspected it...you could always mess with the main person organizing said event. Big banquet? You need the coordinator. Wedding? Either party, most likely the bride would need to be manipulated in some way. Something city wide? Speak to the Mayor.

It will always depend on what events you mean, and what you want to happen. It also depends on your skills in manipulation and the "con" as it were. As far as sending energy and intentions like you asked... I would just try it and see if it works for you.

Thanks,
-Pizgatti

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#56842 - 07/14/11 07:32 PM Re: Bending your destiny or future [Re: SerpentEagle]
Knievel74 Offline
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I think anything's possible if you want it bad enough and are willing to work hard at it. The only obstacle in your way of getting what you want is YOU.
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"Man was meant to live, not just to exist". - Evel Knievel

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#56852 - 07/15/11 12:38 AM Re: Bending your destiny or future [Re: Knievel74]
Diavolo Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Knievel74
I think anything's possible if you want it bad enough and are willing to work hard at it. The only obstacle in your way of getting what you want is YOU.


Seriously man, that's bullshit. Fairy tales like these keep the rats running in the treadmill. The American Dream is bollocks, the idea that if you try hard enough and do all it takes, you'll accomplish anything you want is bollocks too. It's the “pray some harder” or “believe some more” for consumers.

You don't need to believe me, just look around, or look here. An environment of satanists, often considered quite strong-willed. Tell me, how many did accomplish all they ever wanted, got all they wanted? Only those downgrading their dreams and aspirations, and realizing that no matter how much effort they put into it, how much they want it; they're not gonna get it.

Welcome to reality.

D.

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#56897 - 07/15/11 11:30 AM Re: Bending your destiny or future [Re: Diavolo]
Thule Offline
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Quite true. We are often taught things that weaken us. I was told that by working harder I would get ahead. Working harder actually caused me to fall further behind. I learned I wasn't working in the proper way.

I believe though we should do our best regardless of the out come and on some level believe in success to motivate ourselves to try. If we don't try we are guaranteed failure. At the same time our assessment should be somewhat realistic.

Manifesting: I do believe this can exert an "influence" upon events and it is possible to get slight results from it (as demonstrated by studies). But it is nearly useless without being coupled with real concrete action.
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#56899 - 07/15/11 11:53 AM Re: Bending your destiny or future [Re: Thule]
Diavolo Offline
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To quote the great Tyler Durden:

 Quote:
I see all this potential, and I see it squandered. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables – slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our great war is a spiritual war. Our great depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars, but we won't. We're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.


I recently read somewhere that in the English speaking countries, around 23% of the people have mental complaints. Elsewhere it's about half. This means that one on ten is not feeling that well. Which might explain why some freak out, become spree killers, murder their families or commit suicide. Either 10% of the population is mentally defect since birth or there's something we're doing very wrong.

People are stuck in a loop and the pressure keeps on building. And why? Because we are chasing dreams which are not even our own. We are chasing something artificially created. Values specifically upheld to keep the machine running. If we don't buy more and more often, everything will collapse. Our whole current system is build upon continuous replacement. Sooner or later that bubble has to burst too.

What people need to learn is what has value and what hasn't. What is worth it and what isn't. They need to see that the rat race is not necessarily at the benefit of the rats racing it.

D.

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#56966 - 07/16/11 04:48 PM Re: Bending your destiny or future [Re: SerpentEagle]
Aries9 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SerpentEagle
What do you think the possibility of changing events, one's destiny and undesired situation through intention or projections?


I don't think changing events so much rely on "possibility" as much as it does with ability or resources.

As for destiny I'm going to assume you are talking about class status? I would say the possibility for changing that is slim to none. Well that is if you are talking about ascending it and not descending it. If you were born a peasant you will most certainly die one. No matter how skilled you are aside from a very slim chance of getting to know somebody you will not become part of the ruling class elite.

Of course you can always just fork out the extra cash and attempt to live in luxury and pretend to be. It does work for quite a few.

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#57108 - 07/19/11 01:22 AM Re: Bending your destiny or future [Re: Aries9]
MatthewJ1
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I would like to explore something which has been on my mind for a while now and which I think will have some bearing on the topic at hand.

I will also try to put my view across in simple words, not with the intention of being patronising and just obvious, but just trying to get things down straight. I will also use both unconscious and subconscious and leave it up to you to determine which is more valuable or meaningful to you.

I think human beings are fascinated by stories. They like to speak to others and to create their own stories and they like to enjoy the stories of others, whether by just listening to others in conversation, or by watching the TV, or by reading, or whatever.

I think human beings are a meaning generating species and they have a need to speak about themselves and their experience, and to see themselves reflected in the stories of others.

Some stories seem to have more significance than others for particular groups of people. Or, some stories are regarded as more important to the species than other stories. For instance, the story of the fall of man may be regarded as more important than some soap opera story you may see on daytime TV by many people.

I would like to make an assertion: the human unconscious or the subconscious is speaking though the stories we value, just as it can speak through the dreams we have. The more important and compelling one regards a story, the more unconscious or subconscious elements one can detect speaking from within it, or the more powerful those unconscious or subconscious elements are.

I would like to make a further assertion: every thing has the potential to be captured and made to mean something - that is objects, states of affairs, actions have the potential to become signs; to become elements invested with meaning, as a type of speech, and to be read within a larger context or system of meaning.

I would hence argue that the way we read and mean objects, actions etc. reflects our conscious interests, but more interestingly our unconscious or subconscious interests as well; and the more authority a particular reading has, the more powerful or prevalent the unconscious or subconscious forces are functioning within that speech or reading.

I think it is possible to analyse a text or a way of reading or meaning and determining the conscious and the unconscious or subconscious elements which determine its structure and the meaning of the elements within it.

In this sense, Leviathan is not a real entity existing independently of me, but is rather a word which the unconscious has highlighted as an appropriate choice for describing itself to me. I like the notion of the monster who lurks in the depths, or the raging dark presence beneath the cool calm surface.

If this line of thinking interests you, then I would recommend the below reading progression to give you some further ideas:

Introductory Lectures on Psychoanalysis by Sigmund Freud
The Interpretation of Dreams by Sigmund Freud
Elements of Semiology by Roland Barthes
Mythologies by Roland Barthes
On Signs edited by Marshall Blonsky
Jacques Lacan by Anika Lemaire
Nietzsche and Philosophy by Gilles Deleuze

The Dark Force of Nature

Lately I have been interested in the notion of the dark force of nature, of the dark side of a human being, or in a heart of darkness.

I like history and I think one can learn a lot about human beings and their stories and actions from considering the past. On the one hand, I am interested in determining the general principles underpinning the success of such powerful families/individuals as the Medici, the Hapsburgs, the Rothschild’s, the Hohenzollern, Carnegie, Morgan and Ford etc. in order to put those principles into practice. I think Robert Greene has also done this sort of work in his books.

On the other hand, I am interested in reading and determining the forces which have animated or driven our history. I am particularly interested in the dark unconscious or subconscious forces which have animated history.

I am interested in the types of stories, the types of signs selected and invested and the language structure which those signs require in order to speak in context; which speak those dark unconscious or subconscious forces as they attempt to manifest and act through individuals and groups in history.

One area of study, which has been certainly focused on is the Nazi movement and the types of messages or systems of meaning they constructed in order to give those dark forces a voice and a means to act in the world.

Another possible area of study would be to analyse the forces which were revealed and released during the United States in the 1960’s and early 1970’s. I am particularly interested in the significance of historical events such as the assassination of Jack and Bobby Kennedy, the assassination of Dr. King and the attempt on Wallace’s life. On top of this is an interest in the events surrounding the tragedy at Altamont, at Kent State, the social significance of Manson etc.

There are other areas of historical study, no doubt.

I tend to ask the following questions:

What forces are being revealed or released?
What stories, or themes, or what imagery or systems of signs, are giving voice to those forces? What elements and structure?
How influential on other people are those stories, or those systems of signs, in voicing those forces; are those messages compelling the release of those forces in others on an individual or mass scale?
What are the economic and political arrangements and circumstances in place at the time those forces are revealed and what impact does this have on them?
Are there opposing forces in play and if so what are those forces and how do they speak? What is the composition of those forces and how does this battle of forces play out historically or politically etc.?
Is there control of those forces, or has control been lost, or are those forces beyond control from the outset?
What use are those forces and what outcome did those involved expect and finally receive?
What general principles can be determined through this study and how can these principles be put into practice in order to obtain tangible goals?

Some Thoughts on Black Magic from This Point of View

I would tentatively like to offer a definition of black magic from the point of view of a work in progress. Here it is:

Black magic is the conscious awareness and control and deployment of forces in accordance with the will.

I think the difference between a dabbler, or the ignorant, and an accomplished black magician is in the level of awareness or consciousness of these forces and the level of control one can/must exercise over these forces. The magician has the awareness and the ability to control and the dabbler or the ignorant does not.

Black magical practice then is about the creation of a language which successfully speaks the forces which are to be generated or released and which compels others within controllable limits. This magical process assumes that one understands the individual elements and the structure and how the elements will work together to perform the speaking of these forces. It also assumes that the practitioner is a highly aware individual with a respect for this dark side of nature or human beings.

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#57109 - 07/19/11 01:27 AM Re: Bending your destiny or future [Re: ]
444ovthedirt Offline
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Registered: 07/18/11
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Martin Heidegger
http://www.iep.utm.edu/heidegge/


Wilhelm Reich
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Reich


\:\)


Edited by 444ovthedirt (07/19/11 01:27 AM)
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#57159 - 07/19/11 05:35 PM Re: Bending your destiny or future [Re: Diavolo]
Knievel74 Offline
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Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
 Originally Posted By: Knievel74
I think anything's possible if you want it bad enough and are willing to work hard at it. The only obstacle in your way of getting what you want is YOU.


Seriously man, that's bullshit. Fairy tales like these keep the rats running in the treadmill. The American Dream is bollocks, the idea that if you try hard enough and do all it takes, you'll accomplish anything you want is bollocks too. It's the “pray some harder” or “believe some more” for consumers.

You don't need to believe me, just look around, or look here. An environment of satanists, often considered quite strong-willed. Tell me, how many did accomplish all they ever wanted, got all they wanted? Only those downgrading their dreams and aspirations, and realizing that no matter how much effort they put into it, how much they want it; they're not gonna get it.

Welcome to reality.

D.


You're reply to my post is bullshit. Losers usually have that excuse for not getting what they want.

If you didn't accomplish what you wanted in life it means you didn't work hard enough to get it because you didn't really want it in the first place.

Welcome to reality.

K.
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"Man was meant to live, not just to exist". - Evel Knievel

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#57160 - 07/19/11 06:02 PM Re: Bending your destiny or future [Re: Knievel74]
Diavolo Offline
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So my friend what did you accomplish then?

D.

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#57161 - 07/19/11 06:12 PM Re: Bending your destiny or future [Re: Diavolo]
MindFux Offline
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Registered: 12/27/10
Posts: 174
 Quote:

If you didn't accomplish what you wanted in life it means you didn't work hard enough to get it because you didn't really want it in the first place.


Yep if you get cancer and die at 18, you just didn't want your dream of retiring at 45 enough. If you wanted to be a sprinter but lost a leg in an accident, well you clearly didn't want it badly enough. If you dreamed of being a mathematician but suck at math, well too bad, you could have worked at it and become the best in the world. Seriously, what do you think the 'real world' is, a Disney film?

Life is by definition a struggle and hard work and dedication do pay, but to assume that those who haven't achieved quite what they planned to have not done so due to 'absence of work' is just ridiculous.

I use extreme examples to point out how absurd this thinking is. You've bought everything they ever sold you including how to measure your own worth. That's pretty sad.

MF.


Edited by MindFux (07/19/11 06:13 PM)

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#57163 - 07/19/11 06:34 PM Re: Bending your destiny or future [Re: MindFux]
Diavolo Offline
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It's a lie to keep the system running. Try harder, work harder, try more, work more and you'll become whatever you want. Anyone can become anything. That's an egalitarian concept solely differentiating at how much or hard one works. That's bollocks.

Just looking around does show this isn't really the case and that chasing wild dreams is not always at your benefit. Still, it is always at the benefit of the system.

Our boy here is an actor, musician and producer but I've had a quick browse through his accomplishments and even without judging these, I'm quite sure he didn't do yet what he dreamt doing. But when he works some more and tries some harder, I'm sure he'll get to the top too. He's not the loser type you know.

D.

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#57182 - 07/19/11 11:44 PM Re: Bending your destiny or future [Re: Diavolo]
TV is God Moderator Offline
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Really the way to get your future to be what you want comes down to the basic question: what do you want it to be? If you have a vague answer to that question I can't imagine you'll ever really go too far.

The real questions people are too stuck in their immediate perspective to ask and answer honestly are the most important ones. Happiness is achieved through understanding the self.
Who are you? Who do you want to be?
What makes you happy? What are the bare minimum requirements in your life for you to be happy? How far above those minimums are you willing to risk them for? What can you or can't you sacrifice in your life?

Only if you can answer those questions can your really move onto the others.
What about you is stopping you from what you want? What about your environment is stopping you from what you want? What is stopping you from becoming who you want to be?

The problem I usually see in these areas of the internet is people wanting themselves to be something unrealistic and unnatural, or fooling themselves into thinking they're something unrealistic or unnatural. In general people's problem is unwillingness or inability (I wonder which really, but that's a whole other question) to view and judge themselves objectively. To think with thoughts and not emotions about the self.

Now you may ask what I have accomplished. Not much in the eyes of others, I suppose, but I don't really care about that. I have made creative projects I enjoy and all I truly want out of life is to live in a reliable and stable environment, have a bit extra to enjoy myself, and primarily to keep on making creative projects that I personally enjoy and can be proud of. The great thing about not letting consumerist society tell you what you want is that what you want will come much cheaper.

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#57183 - 07/19/11 11:54 PM Re: Bending your destiny or future [Re: TV is God]
Diavolo Offline
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It's not about what you accomplished, I am criticizing the gospel that you can accomplish anything if you only desire it enough, and invest the required effort.

D.

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#57188 - 07/20/11 12:11 AM Re: Bending your destiny or future [Re: Diavolo]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
You are?

Would I be able to posit the idea that you mean to say in some respect, that people dramatise everything that would otherwise be an apathetic experience, quite effortless to somebody focused?

If I can clarify: I mean to present the idea that only the will to power is the true will and so everything preferential in abstract of absolute power is a derailment of the true preference residing in our inexorable nature.

In this we see that besides any evident actualisation of our accomplishments, it is only the desire and drive to overcome our surroundings that we encounter designated by cosmic fate, and it is this adversarial instinct that causes us to succeed as consequence? The ideals and aims only serve as a temporary target to aim at, finding serendipity or disaster along the way is uncertain and still ought to be embraced simply for the journey.

Did I lose the plot again? \:\)
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#57210 - 07/20/11 11:08 AM Re: Bending your destiny or future [Re: Hegesias]
Diavolo Offline
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I'd not as much consider it a dramatization as a glorification of plain normalcy. Satanism always had an emphasis on material wealth and success but up to today, I still need to see the first satanist who actually accomplished anything remotely resembling that what is considered "success" in societal norms. All others who glorify their accomplishment do so in comparison to the subnormal.

Now mind you, my opinion of people does not rely on their bank worth or societal position. I'd even say that those cashing in their worth based on these are no different than those cashing in their worth based upon righteousness. Materialism can be as much a religion as any other.

We all indeed are driven by WtP and will use any channel available but this does not imply everything is choice. WtP is an inherent drive which we are not necessarily conscious about and as such will as easily manifest itself in the trivial as in the essential.

Living implies being awake instead of sleepwalking and identify the illusions surrounding us. Much of what we take for granted is plain bullshit. Most of society is an illusion based upon pure bullshit. This bullshit is there to make us conform. As long as we keep sleepwalking, we keep conforming. As long as we sleepwalk, we don't make our own choices.

As long as we sleepwalk, we will never find out who or what we truly are.

D.

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#57255 - 07/21/11 03:03 AM Re: Bending your destiny or future [Re: ]
Aries9 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/11
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 Originally Posted By: MatthewJ1
I will also try to put my view across in simple words, not with the intention of being patronising and just obvious


Not taken that way at all. Just as a personal preference I'll refrain from performing linguistic acrobatics. Most of the time when people do this anyway it's to dress up what otherwise would be a pile of ...well you get the idea. Needless to say I never could stomach pretentiousness well.

 Originally Posted By: MatthewJ1
I would like to make an assertion: the human unconscious or the subconscious is speaking though the stories we value, just as it can speak through the dreams we have.


I would tend to agree with you, but understanding why is where the power rests. The way I see it you can be aware of this, but if you can't understand the cause the effect will not tell you much of anything in most cases. Thank you for the recommendations. I'm sure I would find them interesting.


 Originally Posted By: MatthewJ1
I think it is possible to analyse a text or a way of reading or meaning and determining the conscious and the unconscious or subconscious elements which determine its structure and the meaning of the elements within it.


I disagree here. I think you will only see as much as you are allowed to see, I can compose an idea and write that idea two different ways and in each instance I'll give you a different idea of the unconscious or subconscious behind it. Your theory rests on the assumption that people can't or won't lie or mislead.

 Originally Posted By: MatthewJ1
I like history and I think one can learn a lot about human beings and their stories and actions from considering the past. On the one hand, I am interested in determining the general principles underpinning the success of such powerful families/individuals as the Medici, the Hapsburgs, the Rothschild’s, the Hohenzollern, Carnegie, Morgan and Ford etc.


I have a lot of contempt for history, but I am interested in human beings. I like to study them, however I don't think one needs to look at history to do so. History to me is lies, propaganda, egotism. It is never unbiased and for the most part dependent on perception. The only thing history says is "This event happened" It doesn't say anything else of substance and sometimes even the event itself never occurred. You can observe this when even a recent event is called into question by a few people and none of them recall it the same way and give different causes for the event occurring. Than think 1 year, 10 years, 100 years and within that only based on a single person's perspective. It may be entertaining to read about history but I wouldn't accept it as truth if it had to be so.

The questions you posed are practical. I would use similar reasoning.

 Originally Posted By: MatthewJ1
Some Thoughts on Black Magic from This Point of View


I agree with mostly everything here. Using what you do accidentally or unintentionally to your advantage can be a skill as well.






Edited by Aries9 (07/21/11 03:32 AM)

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#57881 - 08/01/11 03:16 PM Re: Bending your destiny or future [Re: Diavolo]
Jude Leaven Offline
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Registered: 07/28/11
Posts: 21
Loc: Palm Springs,CA
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Intention means little when it is not accompanied by action. No change is possible without something actively triggering that change or manipulating the very probabilities which might, eventually, lead to it.

One can intent or project as much and as long as one likes but if there is no real "acting" behind it, anything which might or might not happen is solely in the hands of others.

D.


@Diavolo: That's absolutely so right on! If I can use another example involving prayer. Some people pray to their god for money or better health, and then fail to attract those things because they expected it to fall into their lap without putting forth the effort to earn some extra cash by knocking on doors of employment or placing an ad in the paper, or going to the gym or changing their diet.
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"I am become death,the destroyer of worlds"

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#57882 - 08/01/11 04:01 PM Re: Bending your destiny or future [Re: Diavolo]
Jude Leaven Offline
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Registered: 07/28/11
Posts: 21
Loc: Palm Springs,CA
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
It's not about what you accomplished, I am criticizing the gospel that you can accomplish anything if you only desire it enough, and invest the required effort.

D.


I can understand the criticism, since so many random events take place in our life, like you plan to save some money this month and then wham! The car needs repair, or you were going to go out on a date and the other person cancels due to illness. You could plan to take a vacation next year and end up needing to get a kidney transplant. Someone once said; "The race is not to the swift nor to the strong, but time and chance happen to them all." I think that's how is was written, and I do not know who the original Author of that saying is. Some might say life is a craps game. But you can't win it unless you play and that begins with rolling the dice.
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