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#53526 - 04/26/11 05:58 PM Re: Magic and Self-Realization is LHP traditions [Re: arjunasAscent]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
See, that wasn't so hard, was it? You brought something to the table and you were met in kind.

 Quote:
I would've hoped for a Setian perspective.


I'm sure Aquino will chime in at some point; he's probably your best bet on gaining some insight into Setian theology on this site.

Alternatively, you could always go here.
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No gods. No masters.

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#53533 - 04/26/11 07:44 PM Re: Magic and Self-Realization is LHP traditions [Re: arjunasAscent]
Iskander Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 70
Loc: Berlin, Germany
 Originally Posted By: arjunasAscent
How do LaVeyan, Setian and Thelemic world views differ with respect to magic(k) and self-realization? What do these terms mean to each?


LaVeyan: The Satanist gains power in the world by fulfilling his personal needs. (Indulgence / Left Hand Path)

Setian: The Setian gains power in the world by developing and expanding his inner self in accordance to his own will. (Xeper / Left Hand Path)

Thelemic: The Thelemite gains illumination by dissolving his personal will in the universal will of the cosmos. (Thelema / Right Hand Path)

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#53556 - 04/27/11 11:07 AM Re: Magic and Self-Realization is LHP traditions [Re: Iskander]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
 Originally Posted By: Iskander
Thelemic: The Thelemite gains illumination by dissolving his personal will in the universal will of the cosmos. (Thelema / Right Hand Path)


I would argue that the Thelemic path really is to find the individuals True Will (which is always present) and that it is already a part of the universal will. It is not a matter of being separate and striving towards dissolution as it is a path to understand how things already are. The individual will is alreay part of the cosmos, it is already in harmony with it but the Thelemic path is there to realize this.

That is how I have come to understand it anyway. It is alot like buddhism in that way. It is a realization of what is (or is not perhaps) rather than an active going (like the Setians who think they are and can be even more separated from the universal order through initiation).

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#53561 - 04/27/11 02:43 PM Re: Magic and Self-Realization is LHP traditions [Re: TheInsane]
Iskander Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 70
Loc: Berlin, Germany
I agree, you give an accurate describtion of the thelemic point of view. Thelema is similar to buddhism, because it is a mystic concept, thus it belongs to the Right Hand Path.

From a setian point of view, human will is something unique and un-natural. While the Thelemite believes in only one True Will that manifests itself in different persons, the Setian believes in diverse True Wills - there are as many True Wills as thinking individuals.

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#53562 - 04/27/11 02:50 PM Re: Magic and Self-Realization is LHP traditions [Re: TheInsane]
arjunasAscent Offline
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Registered: 04/25/11
Posts: 69
Loc: PA, US
<comment removed>

Edited by arjunasAscent (04/27/11 03:07 PM)
_________________________
Words are mere sound and smoke dimming the heavenly light - Goethe

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#53565 - 04/27/11 03:09 PM Re: Magic and Self-Realization is LHP traditions [Re: arjunasAscent]
Iskander Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 70
Loc: Berlin, Germany
 Originally Posted By: arjunasAscent
Man has a place in the cosmic order


Again: In mystical paradigms like Thelema it is like that, yes. But not in LHP-paradigms like Setianism.

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#53773 - 05/01/11 03:38 AM Re: Magic and Self-Realization is LHP traditions [Re: Iskander]
arjunasAscent Offline
pledge


Registered: 04/25/11
Posts: 69
Loc: PA, US
I see what you're saying... thinking this through a bit more I suspect the key differentiator amongst paradigms is the relationship between order and chaos and how that relationship is interpreted.

At least at a very abstract level.


Edited by arjunasAscent (05/01/11 03:48 AM)
_________________________
Words are mere sound and smoke dimming the heavenly light - Goethe

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#53934 - 05/04/11 09:27 AM Re: Magic and Self-Realization is LHP traditions [Re: arjunasAscent]
Iskander Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 70
Loc: Berlin, Germany
Well, in LHP-paradigms order is established for a limited time, depending on the will / power of the initiates who bring this order into being. Chaos is the pure potential of all concrete changes in the world .

A Thelemite like Crowley sees an universal order that is not to be established but to be found.


Edited by Iskander (05/04/11 09:28 AM)

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