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#53670 - 04/29/11 08:29 PM The Current State of the ONA?
Fist Moderator Offline
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Quite simply, what is the current state of the ONA?

In my day, the ONA was involved in real, and sinister, and really sinister activities. So much so, that no less than MI5 had become involved.

Today, most so called 'ONA activities' see to limited to just so much internet posturing and regurgitating old writings that can be easily found thru a simple Google search.

So just what is the ONA doing today? Where are the current torch bearers of ONA philosophy on such pressing issues as National Socialism or defending the Homeland against slavering hordes of the "undocumented" 3rd World masses?
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#53686 - 04/30/11 02:45 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
SinisterMoon Offline
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Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Fist
Quite simply, what is the current state of the ONA?

In my day, the ONA was involved in real, and sinister, and really sinister activities. So much so, that no less than MI5 had become involved.

Today, most so called 'ONA activities' see to limited to just so much internet posturing and regurgitating old writings that can be easily found thru a simple Google search.

So just what is the ONA doing today? Where are the current torch bearers of ONA philosophy on such pressing issues as National Socialism or defending the Homeland against slavering hordes of the "undocumented" 3rd World masses?


Like I said in a reply on another ONA thread here - the ONA is now organized as a (mostly anonymous) leaderless collective with autonomous local groups/gangs/cells/nexions/temples, or individuals, doing their own stuff.

This is the *third stage* of ONA dvelopment - for there's now enough genuine info about the ONA, in printed form and online, for people to be inspired by it and if they're interested to put its methods into practice either in a group or on their own. That was the plan.

A lot - if not most - of these local groups and lone-wolf individuals don't have a presence on the net. If they recruit, they do it locally in the old fashioned way.


 Originally Posted By: Fist
Where are the current torch bearers of ONA philosophy on such pressing issues as National Socialism or defending the Homeland against slavering hordes of the "undocumented" 3rd World masses?


There are quite a few ONA inspired or ONA linked NS groups *out there* - not only here, but in Europe (including Russia).

One of the main parts of the ONA ethos is its anti-magian stance. Like it says in some ONA text somewhere - the ONA both is and isn't a nazi occult group!

But it's now really for ONA individuals and local groups to be torch bearers - if they want, if they feel the desire to do so. Also, for them to choose what issues - political, social or whatever - they feel are important.

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#53745 - 04/30/11 04:34 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: SinisterMoon]
Fist Moderator Offline
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 Quote:

Like I said in a reply on another ONA thread here


Ah, yes... that other thread has become a rather disjointed series of tangents and heroic posturing, which is why I thought I would post a specific question.

 Quote:
...the ONA is now organized as a (mostly anonymous) leaderless collective with autonomous local groups/gangs/cells/nexions/temples, or individuals, doing their own stuff.


Actually, it has always been this way. Any organization involved in 'illegal' activities must be a network of cells or it will not survive - see the evolution of Myatt's ONA into C18, the BNP, EDL, and it's influence on the Aryan Brotherhood in US prisons. At some point in all of these organizations there are individual nodes linking one to the other.

In the Intel world it is called Link Analysis:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_network#Social_network_analysis

 Quote:

This is the *third stage* of ONA dvelopment - for there's now enough genuine info about the ONA, in printed form and online, for people to be inspired by it and if they're interested to put its methods into practice either in a group or on their own. That was the plan.


In any event, my question still remains. What are these new practitioners doing in any real sense? We have a 'culling' thread that is running (as of today) some 30 pages. To date, has anyone been actually culled?
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#53746 - 04/30/11 04:47 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
I'm not sure if any of them have "culled" but I am quite certain that Satanist "cull" themselves by pottering where they don't belong.

Compared to Zion and Jihad, Satanism doesn't have a chance, it's not comparable, I'd say that us Atheist as a whole are more inclined to be against all of those ideologies when push comes to shove? Those who deserve to be called warriors are in the military or those who have actually overcome real combat situations. Sure you can be as sinister as you like but when it comes to level headedness in combat...

I wouldn't agree that being sinister makes a better warrior but awareness does, so to me "culling" is irrelevant as war is more important, destruction through battle not rat pack lynching, it's something religious people are obsessed about and something we ought to meet with force, if need be, lethal.

Hitler attempted to deal with the religious racial supremacy but history would dictate otherwise. Now we have racist neo-Nazi's, the current NS ideology is successfully ruined through subversion.


Please stay on thread topic of ONA current state.... Morgan


Edited by Morgan (04/30/11 05:58 PM)
Edit Reason: information....
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#53755 - 04/30/11 06:25 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
SinisterMoon Offline
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Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Fist
my question still remains. What are these new practitioners doing in any real sense?


I guess you need to define what you mean by *done*. Do you mean done as in *crime* and reported in the media and connected to some ONA Drecc or the ONA? Or do you mean done and reported in the media with a mention of the ONA? Or just done and not reported at all?

Or does *done* mean something else? As in subversion, disruption, manipulating others to do stuff, or whatever? Or having new nexions/cells/temples spring up around the world, or have a new gang of Dreccs stake their claim to some urban area?

 Originally Posted By: Fist
We have a 'culling' thread that is running (as of today) some 30 pages. To date, has anyone been actually culled?


I refer you to that thread \:\)

Are we talking individual culls or collective culls? Is Jihad culling? Is inciting Jihad culling? Is what appears to be *accidents* culling? Is inciting someone to plant bombs in London a culling? Is manipulating someone to kill some perp a culling? Blah blah blah.

Do you expect some reported deaths to be linked to the ONA or some person to claim responsibility in the name of the ONA? No way! That's not how *it* works.

So, what *proof* do you require? If there is no direct *proof* that can mean two things - either it's all BS/urban legend, or maybe someone hasn't left any *trace*.

Most seem to believe it's BS. If you think about it - just why would anyone want to contradict that belief? ;\)

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#53925 - 05/03/11 09:57 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: SinisterMoon]
Fist Moderator Offline
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 Quote:
I guess you need to define what you mean by *done*.


I quite purposely stated "doing" as in presently. What projects are you currently working on? Never the less, ok, what have you done in any real sense?

In the old days of the ONA the initiate was expected to practice the 7 Fold Way. Even if this were a Hermetic experience, one was initially expected to test his metal. Most traditionally, this involved a minimally equipped trip to the wilderness. You were expected to build a shelter, kill game, and return to nature. Hunger, deprivation and exhaustion was the object of the exercise - think Les Stroud on "Survivor Man." You were to run a marathon or partake in some other arduous physical challenge. You were expected to test your resolve and banish weaknesses. Every martial tradition in history has a similar process for transforming the individual into something beyond his normal self.

One of the things lost on most of today's would-be ONA devotes are it's Transhumanist goals. Every doughy black clad suburbanite with an internet connection reads online ONA material and goes into fantastic flights of Walter Mitty fancy. They imagine the day when they might get to actually 'cull' those who have kicked sand in their face while at the same time missing the point of the exercise entirely! The true practitioner must develop and harness his own individual power. This can only come from hard work - something that most present day practitioners avoid at all costs.

The ability to affect objective reality is a secondary side effect of the WILL to bring such change into existence. So too, accusal effects (second and third order effects if you like) require acts of will. Far too many would-be practitioners lack the individual commitment 'become the change they wish to see.' It is not illegal to petition or to become politically involved in an issue. However, when I look across the vast wasteland of the internet I see little more than empty posturing. From what I have seen, most modern ONA practitioners are quick to discuss the need to "cull the heard" yet seem dead silent on simple political issues such as Nationalism or Immigration.
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#53950 - 05/04/11 10:04 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
SinisterMoon Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Fist
what have you done in any real sense?


You know, like I tried to say in an earlier reply - and obviously didn't express myself well, AFAIK most ONA folks won't go around boasting about what they're doing and won't do stuff in such a way that it connects them, what they do, with the ONA.

They won't leave *ONA calling cards* or silly stuff like that, or if they do political stuff (like as in National Socialism) they won't shout about being ONA. They'll keep their ONA links secret, known only to people they trust.

Same with doing some insight role - you don't tell people you're doing an insight role! You don't go around boasting - "Hey! I'm ONA and I'm insight role-ing as a cop." (Or whatever).

That said, if some ONA people want to open about doing stuff as ONA - fine, that's their choice. Like as in having some Temple 88 group. But AFAIK they're the exception not the rule.

It's about being practical, realistic - out there. It's about infiltration, manipulation, sinister-cloaking, blah blah - and learning for yourself by doing practical sinister stuff.


 Originally Posted By: Fist
In the old days of the ONA the initiate was expected to practice the 7 Fold Way.


Many still do - and they're the ones who mostly aren't here, on forums like this.

But let's get this into perspective - let's say in one year (and the figures here are just examples) 100 people take a serious interest in ONA stuff and began to start to do some practical ONA stuff or join an established group. By the end of the year many of them will have given up with maybe 5 or 6 getting as far as doing external adept. Some of these will fail. Of let's say the 2 who succeed, only 1 will try and do internal adept, and that person may or may not succeed.

Next year, you might get 1 person who does internal adept and succeeds. or you might have to wait for another year.

In a decade, you prolly will only get 3 people who get that far. Because doing internal adept is serious stuff.

In two decades, you might get 1 person who goes beyond internal adept. Or maybe it'll be three decades before someone gets that far.

That's the reality - because the ONA is hard, practical, and not for most people.

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#54060 - 05/07/11 04:20 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: SinisterMoon]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
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In all sincerity, but your answers are rather vague and seem to be intended to avoid simple questions.
I'm also wandering what position you see yourself in concerning ONA, as you seem to throw yourself up as a spokesman. What other have you achieved apart from reading the wide-spread material?

That's the main question Fist is asking, apart from having read ONA material and forming little clubs where like-minded can mentally jack-off against "them mudanes"?
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#54061 - 05/07/11 04:30 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Dimitri]
Diavolo Offline
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Isn't it rather obvious Dimitri that there are questions that can't be answered and that such will always be interpreted by some as therefor everything being merely talk? Would anyone share anything which through this sharing would compromise themselves?

Of course this creates a twilight zone but such can not be avoided.

D.

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#54062 - 05/07/11 04:47 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Diavolo]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
There's a twilight zone and there's simply regurgitating and speculating while intimating expertise. There's so much braggadocio and self aggrandizement that anyone with an ounce of insight would HAVE to wonder about it all. In a lot of ways it kind of looks to me like a "Satanic Panic" in reverse.

"Really, we're REAL... you just can't see us! We're just REALLY GOOD at hiding things like dead bodies and ritual sites and... and... and..."

"Well... can you give us just ONE example... one shread of evidence?"

"Oh no... you just have to BELIEVE... really... we're here. You better fear us because well... we say so."

It was pretty ridiculous when the Christians tried to prove the existence of a vast Satanic conspiracy with no evidence, and just as ridiculous when it's done from the other side with the same lack of evidence that damned the Christian movement against the conspiracy. No evidence is no evidence and demands skepticism.

Else SOMEONE owes Mabon and apology.
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#54065 - 05/07/11 05:05 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Jake999]
Diavolo Offline
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The problem is that what is advocated seems so outrageous to people, it can't be anything but talk. The reaction and skepticism is quite understandable and they might be right. But even if they aren't, it isn't going to be revealed.

I myself am not bothered about how much is true or not. I do not need that to see the value in certain ideas. That value depends not upon how many agree or how much is put into practice. The value is in the idea itself and everyone does with it what they desire.

D.

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#54074 - 05/07/11 07:33 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Dimitri]
SinisterMoon Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
your answers are rather vague


What else do you expect on an open internet forum which no doubt is monitored by *certain people* ?

If as the saying goes you can *read between the lines* - or you have a certain ability like dark-empathy/Occult intuition - then the answers are not really vague, but pointers toward certain truths. They certainly do not avoid the issue.

Or you, like some others here, can just believe there is nothing being done, that it's just people on the net boasting, and that stuff like culling is all BS or urban legend. Which like I said before is fine if that's what you believe.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
I'm also wandering what position you see yourself in concerning ONA


There is no *see myself* and *no position* to see. And certainly nothing to be discussed or boasted about on a forum such as this, or using any impersonal medium of communication.

If this and the reasons for it are not understand, by Occult insight, personal knowledge, or whatever - fine, and therefore judge me or continue to judge me however you want.

But no doubt many will consider this answer *vague* and avoiding the issue.

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#54076 - 05/07/11 07:49 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Jake999]
SinisterMoon Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Jake999
Really, we're REAL... you just can't see us!


If that's your take on the matter - fine. After all, I read somewhere that the ONA is only one man using a lot of 'nyms and so doesn't really exist and so doesn't do anything, hasn't done anything, and isn't a threat to anybody.

See, it's all done by mirrors. No, scratch that - it's nothing but tall tales and fantasy and wishful thinking spread on the internet. So no wonder they/we can't be seen in the real world.

And no, I'm not going to attempt to offer any proof to the contrary. If there is proof, then it's *out there* - like the ONA itself - and can be found, like the ONA (if it exists), by those prepared to do some wearying leg work in the real world, which may take some time, like a month, months, or a year.

But if there isn't any proof, and if the ONA doesn't really exist, then why bother? Exactly.

It's all smoke and mirrors, isn't it. Just like my answers on this thread are vague and avoid the issues; just more smoke and mirrors.

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#54089 - 05/08/11 03:09 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: SinisterMoon]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
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 Quote:
What else do you expect on an open internet forum which no doubt is monitored by *certain people* ?

I sincerly doubt that someone even cares about what's written here. There are different zones on the internet, with the likes of you where mass-culling is being praised, chat-sessions about "secretive plans" on world domination. Intelligence has better things to do then roam the internet in search of "sinister"/diabolical conspiracies.

 Quote:
Or you, like some others here, can just believe there is nothing being done, that it's just people on the net boasting, and that stuff like culling is all BS or urban legend. Which like I said before is fine if that's what you believe.
I refer to Jakes comment for this part.

 Quote:
There is no *see myself* and *no position* to see. And certainly nothing to be discussed or boasted about on a forum such as this, or using any impersonal medium of communication.

In that case, why keep hitting the reply-button?

 Quote:
I read somewhere that the ONA is ..

Exactly my point...

But I guess it's a matter of sinister cloacking and such.


Edited by Dimitri (05/08/11 03:12 AM)
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#54090 - 05/08/11 03:31 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Dimitri]
SinisterMoon Offline
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Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
In that case, why keep hitting the reply-button?


It seems you miss the context of my reply - which was in answer to the specific question you asked earlier:

 Quote:
i'm also wandering what position you see yourself in concerning ONA


To which my reply was there is "nothing to be discussed or boasted about on a forum such as this, or using any impersonal medium of communication."

But perhaps I should have been more clear, precise, and written there is nothing to be discussed or boasted about here or in similar places regarding my *position* and my *relation to the ONA* (if any).

Or perhaps what I wrote was fine. For the answer in general terms to your latest question - why keep hitting the reply-button? - would be: one hopes, as someone gone fishing almost always sets out in hope of landing a catch.

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#54091 - 05/08/11 03:51 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: SinisterMoon]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3115
 Quote:
To which my reply was there is "nothing to be discussed or boasted about on a forum such as this, or using any impersonal medium of communication."
The dreccian moon and nickname you have taken on here seem to indicate a different story, not to mention your explanatroy behaviour when the subject of ONA is at hand (even at topics from before your arrival).

 Quote:
Or perhaps what I wrote was fine. For the answer in general terms to your latest question - why keep hitting the reply-button? - would be: one hopes, as someone gone fishing almost always sets out in hope of landing a catch.
Fine enough to those without a good pair of eyes. I tend to see similar faces and trends when comparing to other secretive groups and religions.
But you got the advantage of floating around in a self-created gray. It might be true, and it can't be true. But if you show gold to a golddigger then the question arises where the mine is..
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#54092 - 05/08/11 05:17 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Dimitri]
mabon2010 Offline
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Registered: 09/29/10
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Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
ONA is currently "in your face" in every LHP forum on the internet. Yet I would like to ask if this ONA goes beyond mere words as some say grand "posturing" on the internet. "Smoke and mirrors" are all very well, and I am sure a load of people will buy into that, but there has to be something tangible that the ONA has done with their name on it.

ONA operate with an inner and an outer shell. Well, so does the Freemasons, who have their secret activities behind closed doors, but their outer shell is seen and they identify with it - their charity work. Smoke is smoke, but without the flame it is mere smoke. There is no harm in showing an outer shell as proof of what ONA is doing, and you can also do that in a legal way, for instance culling a politician with legitimate and legal political means.


Edited by mabon2010 (05/08/11 05:19 AM)
Edit Reason: spelling
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#54094 - 05/08/11 07:31 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: mabon2010]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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I can only imagine what would happen should tomorrow someone get caught doing the evil thing and publicly connected to Satanism. How long would it take before we start ranting about how they are not satanists, how they merely use “the devil” as a scapegoat for their acts? How this is “not” Satanism.

With all the pretense of elitist, being above the mass, being beyond good and evil, being predators, most of us hardly have the balls to jaywalk. Most of us are Normos, living a that harmless life even our grandmothers aren't offended; caged little puppies howling like wolves.

So we cry for evidence, not because we expect to get it but because it is so utterly unimaginable in our comfortable lives. Maybe if we lived on the edge ourselves, the idea wouldn't be that outrageous and we'd not need to exorcise these demons.

God knows what would happen should we, one day, really become satanists.

D.

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#54098 - 05/08/11 09:35 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Diavolo]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Ok, so here we are on page 2 and I think my original point is still being missed. Europe has a good many "right-wing" clubs and organizations centered around Nationalism and ethnic purity. These organizations are not overtly involved in criminal activity and are largely involved in grassroots political activities. Organizations like the BNP and EDL come immediately to mind.

So, my question remains, is anyone organizing or involved with any legal Nationalist type activities. I am not asking if anyone is committing crimes. I was also just wondering what sort of 7 Fold Way challenges anyone has faced? Again, I am not talking about crime, but rather is anyone actually applying the 7 Fold Way in real life?
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#54099 - 05/08/11 09:53 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
Zakary Offline
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Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 75
From what I understand about the ONA one either follows the path or not. One either believes Myatt or not. The state of the ONA can never be known....
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#54100 - 05/08/11 10:11 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: Fist
So, my question remains, is anyone organizing or involved with any legal Nationalist type activities. I am not asking if anyone is committing crimes. I was also just wondering what sort of 7 Fold Way challenges any


I'm not ONA, so this is limited to me, but down here “nationalist” movements are, these days, not really the thing. As might be known by some, and as evidence by our world record in “government formation”, we are currently in a political impasse. One of the “new” biggest parties are the Flemish Separatists and prefer to dismantle this country, going our own way as Flanders. I'm one of them and although my involvement isn't at a political level, I'm involved in the groundwork or what I call memetic manipulation. Of course this isn't the sort of romantic semi-anarchistic state-disruption and it doesn't require violent means or standing atop of barricades but it is the sort of mind-moving labor that has to be done to create enough tolerance or agreement making a future separation possible. That this would imply an Independent Flanders moving to the right is only a bonus.

So as an independent whatever, I am involved although I hardly find it a noteworthy pastime. But the possibility to see the current system collapse is just too attractive to not add my bit, no matter how insignificant.

Not mindblowing I agree but at times subtlety works too.

D.

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#54103 - 05/08/11 11:44 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
SinisterMoon Offline
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Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Fist
my question remains, is anyone organizing or involved with any legal Nationalist type activities.


OK, I'll restate my answers.

Yes they are - but just don't expect them to admit to being ONA, and don't expect a NS group run by ONA folk to admit it's ONA, although AFAIK there are one or two exceptions (one is in Russia last I heard), like Temple 88 chapters, or some small local groups who follow the Reichsfolk way.

But don't expect me or anyone to name the people or the groups or even give exact locations, assuming I had such info of course.

The best example here is Myatt - if we assume he was/is ONA. When he was in Column 88, or Combat 18 or the NSM or whatever he projected a purely NS image for himself and denied all Occult involvement.

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#54110 - 05/08/11 02:14 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: SinisterMoon]
Fist Moderator Offline
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I can assure you, I am well aware of most of the activities of most US groups involved in one way or the other with Reichsfolk, C18, Blood and Honour, or WPWW. In fact, there is every indication that Reichsfolk as an organized movement existed in the late 60's to early 70's as part of a general pagan cultural movement in the US, and it predates ONA by several years. Of course, ONA took it and ran with it.

Most people involved with other Nationalist movements within the US are thoroughly unaware of it's connection to ONA and claim no Satanic or ONA affiliation. At best, only core leadership may be casually aware of it. Within the US prison system this relationship is better understood and ONA/Satanic symbology can be found in the tattoos of certain members - particularly AB, Hells Angles MC and Pagans MC.

In other words, as is usually the case, most of the flunkies in these groups do not know their own history of the significance of the things they are involved in.

Again, we have more than a few folks here carrying the water for ONA. I was just inquiring on their individual level of commitment.
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#54117 - 05/08/11 04:12 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
Caladrius Offline
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Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 318
Loc: SoCal
I'll bite.

The question Fist has regarding the 7fold Way was asked on Mr. James Lewis' Satanic Survey #3 which is still in effect at the moment. I did take the time to answer his questions, and a few of my associates not online also were asked by me to take answer the questions. I am also interested in what the General Population of ONA has to say about their involvement with the Practical Side of ONA. We''ll see the results in September I hear.

I thought I'd try and answer Fist's first concern regarding “Nationalism” and “ethnic purity,” seemingly in context to ONA. Since I would consider myself “ONA,” since I have connects who would consider myself “ONA,” since I have a small group of people who I consider to be “ONA,” and since I and my small group are what Fist's people refer to as “Ethnics.” Keeping in mind that this account is a generic account used by a few friends. [The individual using it at moment to write is Shugz.]

During the 30 that has actually passed since 1980, a lot has changed in general society and for ONA. There are now “Ethnics” in the ONA such as myself. I am 100% yellow skinned Asian. My people's culture is 100% yellow skinned Asian.

This presents a few issues regarding ONA. One issue is that even if I tried, I can't insight role as a white person to assume a role of a Nationalist who is in support of white people and their desire for ethic purity; simply because I am fucking Asian. Which means I am not white. Which means it would make no logical since for me to support publicly the endeavours of a group of people who desires to purify a nation from the likes of me and my people.

So now this brings into being something interesting regarding the current “ONA” as a general “entity.” Because now we have two camps: the white folk with their nationalist agenda; and the “me folk” in America and my people's interests and agendas.

In my everyday life I hang out with a group of people known as the Nation of Gods and Earths or better known as the Five Percent Nation of Islam. This organization was a splinter group of the original 1960's era Nation of Islam which developed during a time when Black people were radicalizing against white people society for their civil liberties. And so the 5% Nation today retains its 1960's revolutionary 'spirit' it was born in.

This 5% Nation is what may be considered the opposite in entho-ideology to National-Socialism. The Nation is focused on the community, people, culture, solidarity of the Original People ((all Black people, all Indians, all Latinos, and all Asians)) against the white devil and his white culture and his white society and his white trick knowledge he calls religion and politics.

I can say that on my side of the world, here in southern cali, where the demographics are right, that what ONA people I know and hang out with are also Black, Brown, and Asian 5%ers who would rather fuck a white boy up than support his ass and his race-centered endeavours.

This may seem strange that the ONA is in some way open to such ideas as ethnics being opposed to white culture and white society and white countries; but fortunately for us David Myatt and Anton Long separately wrote a few manuscripts about White Homo Hunris.

So personally, if you ask me what I am doing with my ONA, the answer would be that I network with the general population of 5%ers I know here forging strong bonds; but more importantly I make close associates of the military arm of the 5% nation often called GodBody Ciphers. These ciphers develop inside prisons in New York during the 70's and so what they came out, grew to become a hybrid gang. Most big East Coast gangs today are spawns of such old ciphers such as the Black Gangsta Disciples; Vice Lords; Almighty United Blood Nation; the various Crip sets in the East Coast; Folk Nation, etc.

So essentially in America – at least in my region – ONA is Ethnic and if there is or should theoretically be any Ethic Purity it is the Purity of our Indigenous People and the retribution against the white people for the crimes of humanity their ancestors have committed on our Indigenous People.

This “Ethnic Purity” talk is bullshit rhetoric thoe, because we all know ain't no god damn way every white folk in America or Ethic folk in Europe gunna be “genocided” into extinction. Instead of an ethnic purity happening in Europe, I see the depletion of white culture and white population being out-placed and overtaken by Arabs and Ethnic people and their ethnic culture. And we have to calculate the fact that your common white person in Europe don't even have a damn culture and that the ethnic people come into Europe with their own coherent culture and weltanschaaung.

And you can't even control ethnic purity either because we all know that the moment a hot Arab bitch walk into your nations, one of you white Irish boys or some other white boy is gunna sleep with her and make mixed babies anyways. So not only are your white people being over populated by ethnics, but your own white boys and white girls can't keep their genitals in the right race in the first place to insure aeonic racial purity.

Do I or my side of the ONA in southern cali care about this? Look at my skin color and what your ancestors did to mines, and ask youself if I care about some group of white people off in some distant place who have no direct connection to me if I give a shit.

Not only that but what kind of racial purity are you as a white breed of homo sapiens gunna be bitching about when in 10 years my Chinese people will own your white ass? Your white children will be indentured servants to my future people.

If one is in this ONA thing for that old skool racial supremacy and purity shit and you're banging with the white race; than you are ignorant about how the flow of Time and aeonics works and you automatically on the losing team anyways.

Just on a biological level, Ethnic people already out number white people. In the past the white race was supreme indeed. But because the European Empires took the time to divide the other races up and made them war with each other. Today things are nationally and socially and economically different. You can't hold down colored folk any more boy. You can keep us divided anymore. And your ancestors gave us today the means to come together: the fucked up way you treated us and our ancestors.

On an economic level, in 25 years, Europe and America will be third world countries over populated by Muslims and Mexicans. I'm moving to Canada!

But this is all 1980's talk right? We're living in the 2011's. Genration Y will soon inherit this social order and also this ONA. The question that we should ask and be interested in is what are these Y Generation ONA-ers striving for or moving towards? Or what is it that they as a people and generation distinct from the Baby-Boomers and X Gen need and want and are stimulated by to struggle and strive?

Do they get stimulated emotionally by racial shit? Do they really give a shit about the color of your skin? I'm Y Gen, ask me if I actually care. Maybe you did indirectly. I don't. And I know that the people and friends I know and hang out with – ONA or not – aren't the least bit concerned for racial war and race hate and race purity. We as a generation of our own, actually have our own worldviews, wants, needs, and aims.

If we do – in today's age – use that race oriented rhetoric, its only to induce in us pride of our own people, our own skin color, our own ancestry, our own cultures, and our own traditions. Other wise, I don't think that anybody of my own generation in or of of some ONA has the same concerns and objectives of a people in their conscious prime in the 80's. When I say “conscious prime” I mean to paint the picture that during our human life, there is a certain gap of causal time in which we peak in our conscious awareness of the world and our environment. Then that peak slowly falls as we age.

Those people that consciously peaked during the 80's who may have emotionally and psychological reacted in their human ways to the unfamiliar influx of other people and other races into their countries understandably may have become Nazis and Nationalist and racialist as a outer expression of inner uncomfort. But time heals and with time there comes understanding.

Those of us who are of the younger rung of X Gen and of Y Generation grew up in a very different social environmental. Are we suppose to react to this different social environment to people we grew up seeing as friends and simply human, in a way a previous generation may have reacted?

Should the ONA be stuck in a time warp and run on 1980's racialist software when the rest of the world and human race is rapidly changing and evolving into something that for the first time in our human history is truly a Human Race that share a single Earth?

I can't speak for others. But for myself personally, I am consciously aware of my racial identity and of others; but in such conscious awareness I don't process such identification in the same way as one of an older generation would. I simply acknowledge the unique difference and variation, and desire to perhaps be proud and mindful of my own culture and people, in the spirit that others should also be proud of their culture and people.

If I personally use racialist rhetoric in my sphere of friends it is only a means to an end. And the end is to bring back together the colored Humpty-Dumpty white people broke apart, so that we as an ethnic people can once again have our respective communities and respective cultures, instead of this secular White out that is eating away at such community and culture. Most ethnic people I know don't have a living sense of community or culture. If I do use racial rhetoric, it is to inspire or help forge what is missing for my own Indigenous People; and ONA is a major tool my friends and I use in different ways to get our own private "nexion's" agenda done.

THERE IS NO ONA AS A CENTRALIZED ORGANIZATION WITH ONE SINGLE GOAL AND ETHNIC ORIENTED OBJECTIVE. I HAVE SAID THIS AND MANY OTHERS HERE HAVE SAID THIS TIME AND TIME OVER AND OVER. THERE IS NO ONA. THERE IS NO SINGLE ONA THING. THERE IS ONLY MYATT AND WHAT GROUPS OF INDEPENDENT PEOPLE THERE ARE WHO PUT HIS SHIT INTO PRACTICE IN SOME WAY.

If I use racial rhetoric as ONA or not, it doesn't mean that I think White people suck. I agree with my own group of friends when they say that white people in Europe should wake up and nationalize by rooting themselves in what Traditions and Cultures their people have, had, or lost.

I don't think that “Nationalism” as a concept or principle is on my friends' and my personal ONA Ethnic “platform.” In the 5% Nation we refer to such National entity as the “Devilishment” as in the Establishment of the White Devil. The last thing I would want my people and future children to support is any establishment of the white devil. It's time that the white devil learns to live his own life, with out colored folk propping his ass up and feeding him collectively.

What I mean is in the past if European Empires grew big and powerful, that is was in part due to the fact that ethnic nations and people were vanquished and politically forced to support such empires. The enslavement of an entire race of Black people comes to mind. The treating of ethnic Hindus as Asiatic Niggers comes to mind. How the Chinese were treated and used to support the interests of Great Britain comes to mind. America as a democracy supporting totalitarian dictators in Africa, Central America, Arabia, and South America for their economic and political interests comes to mind. Learn to stand on your own two feet first, before you consider yourselves a Supreme Race; because the colored people you placed underneath you is the support and power base of that delusional supremacy of yours. Because when that foundation is removed, you fall and have nothing left but your own delusions, arrogance, and inability to humanly get along with other people different than yours.

I personally believe that it is time for my Indigenous People of any and all color: the black, the red, the brown, and the yellow; to come together to support each other and our future progeny, rather than live our lives supporting a white race and their establishments that does NOT care for us and wishes us to die.

So in my daily life with my friends, what we doe with our ONA and how we use it differs from how a white European ONA-er may express it and use it. And in that, there is no wrong or harm done. All the ONA is to each person is a tool or box of Practical Wisdom, one may use to get certain kinds of work done.

And this work doesn't always involve “crime.” And our gender also influences how we each use the ONA. Because a boy has his own interests and way of doing things, which will differ from a girl natural interests and way of getting things done.

So personally my friends and I use our ONA to forge bond between ethnic groups; develop a practical system of caring for each other, a system of mutual aid and mutual support, which will later develop into a community – ariyasangha – which would be an extension of our private families.

As an “ONA-er” supporting a Nation is not an interest of mine. Therefore for me and my friends we don't mess with Nationalism or white oriented Nationalist interests. In the sense that as an Ethnic person who is down for my ethnic people, and down to disrupt the State, I WANT more illegals to come into the country. I want to support anything that will help crack the coherency their Devilishment. I'll even support liberal agenda because they may be more prone to outrageous government spending; so as to help America go down into further debt.

So that's the answer to the first question. I personally do put ONA practical wisdom into practice in my own life, and sphere of influence. Which is not white nationalist oriented. It is the opposite with the best interests of my people in mind. Such activities usually involves street diplomacy between many groups of ethnic people; a sharing of life and resources; and at times, because of the environment and some people involved may include minor acts of violence and generic altercations between folks and groups that don't get along.

In my area, and in context to the demographics that I have to work with and be a part of, the white National Socialism doesn't work. Things like 5% Rhetoric actually works very nicely in bringing people together. Not for the sake of taking down some government, but more so for the realistic and human sake of taking care of our own asses and minding our own people's business; and rebuilding what community, culture, and collective identity white people systematically beat out of us. When in future such simple goals are materialized, and we have a working interconnected urban community of ethnic families and peoples; then perhaps we can ponder on Ethic Purity and Race War. When such theoretical times should ever come, by then the white race would have already been primed for extermination; because of your collective aeonic wyrd. That's if in future, such future generations of people will even give a shit about skin color.

The point is that the ONA isn't just a white boy thing anymore with white boy agendas. It is now also in some areas and thru some people an ethnic girl thing \:\) May the best faction win. In the end – according to DM's genius – which ever faction or group gets their job done for whatever reason or people, precenses his memes anyways into the future. Other point is that as a person – ONA or not – I like keeping thing on the real or on the practical level. It's nice that you as a white boy can chit chat and talk with each other about your dreams of racial purity or an all white Europe. But being the rational and practical type of person, I can help but assume in my ignorance that this talk of ethnic purity and white racial supremacy and clearing Europe of non-whites is old world rhetorical bullshit that perhaps was a staple of some post WWII zeigeist. I don't see it ever realistically happening. I challenge any pitiful white boy who seems to be so delusional to go ahead and try.

If you are white or colored and you are ONA and actually think that this racial war shit and ethnic cleansing shit is even remotely plausable, than nigga, get the fuck out of the ONA because eyou are just as delusional as a Christian who wishfully thinks some bearded god and some heaven exists. It ain't gunna happen. Quite minding other people's lives, and mind your own white ass lives before Muslims and Chinese people make you slaves. I'm being real on the real her with what white Drecc kinfolk are here reading this shit. Be realistic in your agenda. We already dealt with some whack job a couple years ago who thought ONA should murder 2 billion Mundanes. What the hell is wrong with this shit? We ain't playing house or make believe? No ONA is gunna kill 2 billion mundanes and no Europe is going to chase out non-whites. Hitler couldn't do it and he had the back up of his entire reichs. What makes you think some group of ONA weirdos in a back alley in Europe or in some semi-official nut-case political party is going to actually do a better job than Hitler and his boys?

Lastly regarding this “real” and “unreal” shit. IMO, when dealing with a memeplex that “dichotomy” is non-applicable. There are too many variables and factors involved in a single memeplex to make it fit into two simples boxes of either being “real” or “unreal.”

What is meant by the word “real?” That a memeplex has coherent doctrine and ideology? That a memeplex has human bodies to put it manifest it's shit? That a memeplex has a web presence? What are the actual criteria that determines if a culture, religion, philosophy, ideology, or group of people is real or not?

As a Buddhist, I know hundreds of people who are plugged into the memeplex of Buddhism that do shit with their Buddhism but believe its simple principles and sit still like trees once in a while. Are they real? Is their Buddhism real or fake? Is it fake because they ain't manifesting shit? Is it fake because it's just a belief? Or is it real because there are so many of them, its just hard for the ignorant to deny its causal reality?

What is Satanism to most people but a set of memes, which certain people use to post shit online and perhaps carry their labels and beliefs around in the real world? Do numbers make you real? Numbers relative to what? To 2 billion Christians? To 10,000 Raelians? To 500 Setians? To 5 Corona Crip Locos banging in their little neighborhood? To 10 usual posters here? People toss the word 'real' and fake around like Blackwood, but nobody ever defines it. Why are do you Believe your sect is “real” and why do you Believe another persons school of belief/thought to be “unreal?” What is the measurable and rational criteria behind both Beliefs? Fortunately ONA is “real” enough to be at least on a survey associated with a brick and mortar university.


Edited by Caladrius (05/08/11 04:28 PM)
_________________________
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#54118 - 05/08/11 04:40 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Fist
there is every indication that Reichsfolk as an organized movement existed in the late 60's to early 70's as part of a general pagan cultural movement in the US, and it predates ONA by several years. Of course, ONA took it and ran with it.


Well, I think you may be misinformed here. It's well documented that Myatt established Reichsfolk in the late 1990's (CE) to propagate his *ethical National Socialism* - or what Searchlight called his *revisionist version* of NS. cf. for example the entry in Kaplan's *Encyclopedia of white power: a sourcebook on the radical racist right* published in 2000 CE. For further references about Myatt and Reichsfolk check out, for example, Goodrick-Clark's Black Sun and the book by Taguieff: Prêcheurs de haine. Traversée de la judéophobie planétaire, published in Paris in 2004 CE.

Reichsfolk, BTW, is pure NS - with no association with any other pagan movement. cf. Myatt's *Future Reich* published by Thormynd Press, now long out of print, although I seem to recall some of it was posted on the Skadi forum years back.

The principles of Myatt's Reichsfolk has been adopted by Aryan Nations under August Kreis, and also by WSA352, an ONA nexion in California and Arizona.

More on Reichsfolk at http://cosmicreich.wordpress.com/

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#54120 - 05/08/11 05:03 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Caladrius]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
The problem here in Europe isn't the flow of immigrants as most countries having evolved into Nanny-States. Racial purity here has always been a funky thing since Europe simply isn't the continent of the white. While up north all are pretty pale, down south few are. People here don't need to fear their culture being annihilated by the influx of others because we did that pretty well ourselves. There is hardly any culture left and all that remains is commercialized. We're all individualized drones in an economic loop. Our system is through and through corrupt even when we “sell” it as a multicultural democratic success.

We are coursing towards an implosion because there is little left to hold anything together. Cleansing the colored wouldn't change that at all.

D.

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#54121 - 05/08/11 05:08 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Caladrius]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Caladrius
The point is that the ONA isn't just a white boy thing anymore with white boy agendas. It is now also in some areas and thru some people an ethnic girl thing


This is VERY important to understand regarding the ONA (and excuse me shouting) and I'm glad it's been brought up here.

The ONA is now a collective (or kollective as some spell it) of diverse individuals and groups - just like Reichsfolk is.

For example, there are AFAIK some Hispanic ONA chapters in some metro areas just as there are *whites only* chapters.

In fact, both ONA and Reichsfolk actively encourage tribal groups - gangs - divided along ethnic lines. Why? It's all *out there* people, in ONA and Reichsfolk texts.

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#54122 - 05/08/11 05:13 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Caladrius]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
So you go on this rant (which I have condensed):

 Quote:
In my everyday life I hang out with a group of people known as the Nation of Gods and Earths or better known as the Five Percent Nation of Islam...This 5% Nation is what may be considered the opposite in entho-ideology to National-Socialism. The Nation is focused on the community, people, culture, solidarity of the Original People ((all Black people, all Indians, all Latinos, and all Asians)) against the white devil and his white culture and his white society and his white trick knowledge he calls religion and politics.

I can say that on my side of the world, here in southern cali, where the demographics are right, that what ONA people I know and hang out with are also Black, Brown, and Asian 5%ers who would rather fuck a white boy up than support his ass and his race-centered endeavours.

So essentially in America – at least in my region – ONA is Ethnic and if there is or should theoretically be any Ethic Purity it is the Purity of our Indigenous People and the retribution against the white people for the crimes of humanity their ancestors have committed on our Indigenous People.

what kind of racial purity are you as a white breed of homo sapiens gunna be bitching about when in 10 years my Chinese people will own your white ass? Your white children will be indentured servants to my future people.


and then follow it up with this:

 Quote:
Do they get stimulated emotionally by racial shit? Do they really give a shit about the color of your skin? I'm Y Gen, ask me if I actually care. Maybe you did indirectly. I don't. And I know that the people and friends I know and hang out with – ONA or not – aren't the least bit concerned for racial war and race hate and race purity. We as a generation of our own, actually have our own worldviews, wants, needs, and aims.


It sounds like you do care, and a great deal. Otherwise, why would you spent so much time bitching about the "White Devil"?

 Quote:
If we do – in today's age – use that race oriented rhetoric, its only to induce in us pride of our own people, our own skin color, our own ancestry, our own cultures, and our own traditions.


Since when did pride include dwelling on perceived wrongs (whether real or imaginary) done to "your people" and spewing vitrolic hatred and anger at another people who supposedly wronged you? And not even you personally but supposedly your entire race. That's not pride anymore than that displayed by so-called White Pride groups that hide behind cultural and racial pride as an excuse for incitements to violence against other "inferior" races.

 Quote:
Those of us who are of the younger rung of X Gen and of Y Generation grew up in a very different social environmental. Are we suppose to react to this different social environment to people we grew up seeing as friends and simply human, in a way a previous generation may have reacted?

Should the ONA be stuck in a time warp and run on 1980's racialist software when the rest of the world and human race is rapidly changing and evolving into something that for the first time in our human history is truly a Human Race that share a single Earth?

I can't speak for others. But for myself personally, I am consciously aware of my racial identity and of others; but in such conscious awareness I don't process such identification in the same way as one of an older generation would. I simply acknowledge the unique difference and variation, and desire to perhaps be proud and mindful of my own culture and people, in the spirit that others should also be proud of their culture and people.


You speak as if you are in favor of some sort transcendental utopian society where all races exist in harmony and that somehow "being ONA" will get you there. That "1980's racialist software" is the same that you yourself use and admit to using in one breath and then decry it as if it were outdated and obsolete in the next. I don't think you really know what you believe.

 Quote:
If I personally use racialist rhetoric in my sphere of friends it is only a means to an end. And the end is to bring back together the colored Humpty-Dumpty white people broke apart, so that we as an ethnic people can once again have our respective communities and respective cultures, instead of this secular White out that is eating away at such community and culture.


Bullshit. If that were the case you should be able to do it without bitching about how far whitey shoved the shaft up your chapped ass.

I didn't read the rest of your post past my last quote of it because I've already had enough contradictory mental masturbation.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#54130 - 05/08/11 09:23 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: SinisterMoon]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Quote:
Well, I think you may be misinformed here. It's well documented that Myatt established Reichsfolk in the late 1990's (CE) to propagate his *ethical National Socialism*...


You know, I thought it would be rather hard to find this information in a google search, because on this particular subject, the Myatt crowd has been pretty much shouting at each other in an echo chamber.

My sources actually come from old books that I can't actually lay my hands on right now. Never the less, it seems that you can find some facts on the web:

http://www.againstnazi.com/nazi-hate-groups.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Party_%281960s%29#British_National_Party_.281960.29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Defence_League

Sorry Homie, but the 60's was a smorgasbord of counter culture activity. And a lot of folks were exploring old Norse paganism and old pre-NAZI Thule Society and Vril Society occultism. In fact, most ONA material is simply an evolution of Thule and Vril Society work.

You niggaz need to learn your history not HIStory.

2:10

Ever wonder what the big clock is for? Time is running out...

polywannacracka?
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#54139 - 05/08/11 10:43 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
Ghostly1 Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
Of all the ONA manuscripts I have read, I dont recall any specific directives to cleanse any particular ethnic groups. Myatt himself converted to Islam, whether for Insight or not is unclear to me.

As for the culling threads...

Some recent discoveries near where I live have made big news across the nation. The finding of about 10 bodies near a beach on Long Island. Some were positively identified as escorts for hire. Prostitutes if you will. The media is calling it the work of a mass murderer. For a split second I wondered if it was something deeper, but I digress. ONA literature mentioned that culling can be done naturally too. Such as natural selection, the junkie overdosing for instance. Not all activity has to be public, and it probably shouldnt be for the sake of secrecy.

I too took the test. Both of them.

I think anyone practicing the 7 fold way would do so in secret. The fact that Satanism in general is a individual effort, only reinforces my thought that even the ONA as a collective worldwide, will only be concerned about things which matter to them as individuals. The overall goal of ONA was to help bring the next dark Aeonic age. Homo Galactica. I still dont see where race would enter into the equation if they were working towards that goal, as a whole.

Committing crimes was merely a way to experience different emotions, thoughts and open different pathways in the practitioners mind.

Since I view many things in a literal sense, much of what I read and understood was that ONA didnt concern itself with ethnic lines. They didnt require the individual to focus on racial purity. Creating the Adept was the key goal. (in my understanding thus far)
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Become a force of nature.

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#54146 - 05/09/11 01:11 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Caladrius]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
I must have missed the memo divorcing the ONA from racial and Nationalist politics. Not really sure when this happened.

Any fool can pick up a book, read it, and start proselytizing on just about any street corner in the land. David Koresh, Jim Jones, and a host of others have claimed to be spokes people for the Bible. Most Xtians would disagree. So too, we find here and again, new comers to Satanism proclaiming that 'Satanism is whatever I want it to be.' Got it. So, why would it be any different with ONA? Yep, read the book. Got it. Now what?

At the core of Myatt's work is RAHOWA - a term popularized by Ben Klassen as early as 1973 (for those of you keeping score at home). If you know Myatt's history, and his desire to stay out of prison, "converting" to Islam makes a lot of sense. The UK, and much of the rest of Europa, is suffering under some sort of a deathwish. The Islamists have been given a great deal of latitude, coddling, and other special perks (and no small measure of social welfare), while Nationalist groups have been raided, put on watch lists, and generaly maligned by polite society. So, Myatt is pretty much free to pursue his interests under the umbrella of Islam.

The idea is, ultimately, the destruction of the current paradigm and the ushering in of the New Aeon. But first, mankind must cross the Abyss and be reborn - only then will the New Race of Transhuman Ubermenchen be left to claim their rightful place as masters of the New Aeon!

So, things like terrorism, riots, race riots, plague, famine, war, race war, EMP, the neutron bomb, Peak Oil, global financial collapse et. al., are all part and parcel to the birthing process - growing pains if you will? Myatt for his part, really couldn't care less how we get there.

Oh, there will be a culling alright! Want to see what happens to human society when the oil stops flowing, there is no food in the stores, the lights go out? Survival of the fittest anyone?

The real question is, and I will ask it again, for your part what are you doing to move the ball down the field?
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#54147 - 05/09/11 01:28 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
Caladrius Offline
member


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 318
Loc: SoCal
 Originally Posted By: Fist
I must have missed the memo divorcing the ONA from racial and Nationalist politics. Not really sure when this happened.

[...]

So, Myatt is pretty much free to pursue his interests under the umbrella of Islam.



You must have missed the memo about DM publicly leaving Islam to go back to his Numinous Way. It's on his wikipedia and other writings. Look that up will you.

Tell you what Fist, I think I know what the problem is as to why your missing all these memo I'm getting: I know every other Old Guard in the ONA. Who do you know from this OG circle? I'd like to know a name or sinister nym. Who is your uplink? You're mentor that got you into the ONA? I'd like a name of some sort.

I don't know every Old Guard, but those OG will know everybody in their inner circle. I just want to do you a favour and make sure that Connects and information channel is properly link because surely we don't want you missing memos anymore. It's been 30 years since 1980. We can't have Dreccs 30 behind like this. It's unacceptable. Let's work together. Give me a name.

Also you go ask your Old Guard your connected to, who should be connected to DM and ask them how Shugz gets her ONA: From a book; or do I write the shit you put into practice? I get my ONA shit from a set of persons; who are linked to a set of Old Guards; who are connected to DM. My "family tree" to the Source can be named by two names. What's your Family Tree? I wanna know who got you into ONA. You can PM me, since this is a personal issue now.



Edited by Caladrius (05/09/11 01:43 AM)
_________________________
.:.gone fishing.:.

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#54148 - 05/09/11 01:58 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Caladrius]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Quote:
I know every other Old Guard in the ONA.


Really, so how is Del O'Connor doing these days?

 Quote:
You're mentor that got you into the ONA?


I am pretty sure I answered this is the 'culling' thread. ONA was way too Masters and Servants Homo-erotic for me. I bow to no man, especially when, to the man, none of them are capable of defeating me in single combat. Per old Norse law, in matters of Law I can challenge a man to the death in single combat.

Warfare for me isn't some hobby or academic exercise, it is my profession for some 20 years. And you people are playing kiddie games.

 Quote:
It's been 30 years since 1980.


I was 10 in 1980 and the Vril Society goes back to the late 1800's. Your point?

 Quote:
I'd like to know a name or sinister nym.


And I'd like to know the hardest thing you hardcore ONA cats have ever done!? Killed a man? Killed 10? How about killing as an industrial process? Ever run a marathon? Done a 18 mile forced march with 60lbs on your back? Ever have to fight six grown men at one time who were bound and determined to kill you? What is the longest you have ever been without food? What was the longest you have ever lived in the wild without the trappings of modern civilization? Ever undergone 'harsh' interrogation? What are you people going to do when the shooting starts? Honestly, I want to know. What do you thing this New Aeon stuff is all about?

Flights leave daily....
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#54149 - 05/09/11 02:00 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida


None of those sources are reliable nor academic.

The first - regarding Reichsfolk - in fact gives a quote from one of Myatt's NS writings and has a broken link. If you go and *way back* the link you'll prolly find it's all Myatt, old NSM, and C18 stuff.

Where in the second and third links is Reichsfolk mentioned?

You mentioned Reichsfolk dated from the 60's/70's or something like that, and was associated with pagans in the WN movement around that time. I replied - Myatt founded Reichsfolk in the late 90's, and gave academic sources for the info.

You've given no evidence to the contrary. Sure WN's the 60's and 70's explored paganism - that's not the issue here.


 Originally Posted By: Fist
In fact, most ONA material is simply an evolution of Thule and Vril Society work.


This is kinda like the old claim - *all ONA material was ripped off from Lovecraft, Crowley, ToS blah blah*.

I'd like to see your evidence for your claim.

For starters, where in Thule and Vril are the following -

1) Esoteric chant (as in Naos)
2) Ceremony of Recalling (Baphomet as dark goddess etc)
3) Concept of the acausal continuum
4) Satan as a shapeshifting acausal being
5) The Star Game
6) Rite of Internal Adept
7) Culling as Art
8) Concept of nexion
9) The seven fold Tree of Wyrd
and so on blah blah blah

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#54150 - 05/09/11 02:23 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: SinisterMoon]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Like I said, I will have to dig up some rather esoteric books. But if your really want to know, look around for evidence of Odinism in the 1960's. Most of the current Blood and Honour ideology comes directly from Odinism and other Norse pagan revivals of the 60's. Sorry if it is harder than a google search.

Never the less, and keeping with the topicality of this thread...

 Quote:
1) Esoteric chant (as in Naos)
2) Ceremony of Recalling (Baphomet as dark goddess etc)
3) Concept of the acausal continuum
4) Satan as a shapeshifting acausal being
5) The Star Game
6) Rite of Internal Adept
7) Culling as Art
8) Concept of nexion
9) The seven fold Tree of Wyrd


Could you hum a few bars on just how you apply any of this to your daily life? If I were to ask a devout church going Xtian a similar Bible related question he would have no problem regaling me with stories of his personal Jesus.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#54151 - 05/09/11 02:27 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Fist
I must have missed the memo divorcing the ONA from racial and Nationalist politics. Not really sure when this happened.


It always was that way AFAIK. NS was a causal form - a tactic of sinister strategy - not the essence of the ONA. It was also a suggested *insight role*. An insight role never was the essence of the ONA - it was just a role used to learn stuff and develop character.

Basically, something used by ONA adepts to incite others, cause chaos, have fun, stir things up, and be subversive and heretical.

Go read for example

http://nineangles.wordpress.com/is-the-ona-nazi/

There are dozens of ONA texts which mention such stuff.

But - see sites like

http://satanicheresy.wordpress.com/

which seem to be pro-nazi

For I have to point out that the ONA was and still is staunchly anti-magian. Opposition to the magian has never wavered - in truth, it's prolly become more open, and stronger.

Who/what is the magian? Here's the def from the ONA -

 Quote:
The term Magian is used to refer to the hybrid ethos of Yahoud and of Western hubriati, and also refers to those individuals who are Magian by either breeding or nature.

The essence of what we term the Magian ethos is inherent in Judaism, in Nasrany, and in Islam. To be pedantic, we use the term Magian in preference to the more commonly used term Semitic to describe the ethos underlying these three major, and conventional, religions, since the term Semitic is, in our view, not strictly philologically correct to describe such religions.


The ONA rails against and denounces what it calls *magian occultism* in which it includes LaVey, Crowley and others.

Now if this anti-magian stance makes the ONA nazi, then it is.


 Originally Posted By: Fist
At the core of Myatt's work is RAHOWA


Yes and no, since I guess it all depends on how you interpret Myatt's life. Die-hard nazi? Or life-long sinister subversive?

If he's the later, then RAHOWA is just one of many means he's used to try and bring down what he calls *the system* and replace it with new tribes, some of which are divided along ethnic lines.

Now we're getting somewhere. Since this is all tied in with his Vindex mythos and with his life-long promotion of personal honor as the basis for law, as against abstract law made by governments.


 Originally Posted By: Fist
So, things like terrorism, riots, race riots, plague, famine, war, race war, EMP, the neutron bomb, Peak Oil, global financial collapse et. al., are all part and parcel to the birthing process - growing pains if you will? Myatt for his part, really couldn't care less how we get there.


I agree with you here. It's all about destroying the magian system and replacing it with new ways of life based on tribes. Which brings us back to Vindex, tribes, and honor binding such tribes together - be they ethnic, or not.

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#54152 - 05/09/11 02:39 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Fist
Could you hum a few bars on just how you apply any of this to your daily life?

You what?! You claimed that most ONA material is simply an evolution of Thule and Vril Society work. I asked for some evidence for this claim of yours and listed some ONA specific things which I don't think you'll find anywhere in Thule and Vril in any shape or form.

But if you can prove me wrong with evidence from reliable sources, then I'm wrong.

But what is it with people who seem to need to believe or prove that the ONA isn't original?

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#54153 - 05/09/11 02:46 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: SinisterMoon]
Caladrius Offline
member


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 318
Loc: SoCal
Fist clearly has a problem telling the difference between THE ONA, from things like C18, C88, Blood & Honour; his Military Profession; Odinism; Thule & Vril.

It appears as thoe in his mind, it's a big blurry mess... Just sayin. I'm out.
_________________________
.:.gone fishing.:.

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#54154 - 05/09/11 03:14 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Caladrius]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3115
 Quote:
Fist clearly has a problem telling the difference between THE ONA, from things like C18, C88, Blood & Honour; his Military Profession; Odinism; Thule & Vril.

All things you mentioned can be interlinked with each other by "history" and practical application of ONA. I think he knows the differences but is curious about the "new generation" and their practical applications in this time and age. And to be serious, most texts are about heavy subjects and push the adept towards an extremly hard path to walk. (And I really doubt some of the most out-spoken ONA admirers/partisans here and elsewhere ever managed to reach the physical standards as described in their texts).

I know that if that road is being walked properly none would waste time writing texts in explanatory form.

I've alse learned by experience what that certain connection military squads have with each other. The last couple of months I have been very active on different fronts and had chosen to undergo a baptization with a certain group. This involved to be blindfolded for half a day and being dropped at an unknown location. On the way getting there, several pauses were given (still blindfolded) in which tasks were to be performed (blindfolded) those were sit-ups, crawling for a mile on the street, "search the correct car" after being spinned around 30 times etc...

Arriving at the first destination, the blindfolds are finally taken away where you got the splendid image of the open sea. You receive an envelope with tasks and the place where you should end-up that day. They drive away and you're left behind somewhere unknown. Since we didn't have a thing on us (the only thing we had was a copy of our ID-cards). We fulfilled these tasks and got to the set destination. Only to be blindfolded again and dropped somewhere else in the middle of the night since "we took the wrong route". (Quite depressing after a 40 kilometer run). We returned, and had to entertain the people before we got to sleep (which lasted about...half an hour? Maybe less?).

This time we returned home, i.e. those who organised it by car us by foot with additional tasks which had to be accomplished and made the distance to track even longer. We crossed a total distance that day of about 250 kilometers. It should also be noted that during these 2 days we didn't receive any food or water, we had to beg for it from people who lived there. Sounds easy enough unless I add the fact the nearest home was 10 kilometers away where people actually lived and that we thoroughly hoped to use some water.

I must admit we only walked 80 kilometers that day and the rest of the distance was accomplished by hitchhiking.

Now I must ask: whom of you did something alike AND managed to compleat it without break-down?


Edited by Dimitri (05/09/11 03:50 AM)
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#54156 - 05/09/11 05:45 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Dimitri]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
If the British National Party had an ONA connection it will be dead very soon. I have been working with Hope not Hate in culling operations, with agents within BNP destroyng it from within, and extensive operations nationally externally, we have managed to push BNP to the verge of bankruptcy, and only 2 BNP councillors survived recent elections.

p.s. ONA strategy whilst it can be used to boost the far right can also be used to destroy them.


Edited by mabon2010 (05/09/11 05:48 AM)
_________________________
Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

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#54157 - 05/09/11 07:27 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: mabon2010]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: mabon2010
lONA strategy whilst it can be used to boost the far right can also be used to destroy them


Very true - and the choice is up to individuals. The outer form used is generally irrelevant.

There's no *master plan* by some inner circle. Except possibly bring down *the system*, cause chaos, move toward a new tribal aeon, and give individuals the opportunity to insight role and gain practical experience.

Which incidentally is why ONA is not and never has been a *whites only* club, why nazism is only a means (sometimes) and why O9A has gotten nexions/groups/chapters of Asians, Hispanics, and others in the states.

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#54158 - 05/09/11 07:50 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Dimitri]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
I really doubt some of the most out-spoken ONA admirers/partisans here and elsewhere ever managed to reach the physical standards as described in their texts


Well you know the ONA divides into two types - those who follow the traditional seven fold way of esoteric training which includes such physical standards, and dreccs who don't follow the grade system because they don't have to.

Both types are ONA. The dreccs have their own tests and standards which in some ways are tougher given that most dreccs are organised into gangs which aren't exactly *law abiding*.

O9A is organised this way now as part of the third phase of its sinister strategy. Plus it gives people a choice that suits their character, their situation, and also extends the reach of the O9A.

So the *traditional nexions* following the 7 fold way are often overtly Satanic or at least overtly involved with the Occult and doing rituals and stuff while dreccs usually aren't either. They don't for the most part self identify as Satanists or Occultists. They're just dreccs and some don't even use the term drecc or ONA, just a tag or something like that.

What links them is stuff like the dreccian code of honor and the division of people into *us and them* with them being mundanes and us being those of our kind, i.e. those who follow the dreccian code.

Now I've heard it said that those who follow the 7 fold way and do the practical physical stuff, insight role, and do the grade rituals like internal adept are those who when/if they get to internal adept may be recruited into the inner ONA, with this inner ONA consisting of the OG who are all internal adepts and above and all therefore have done and passed the physical tasks.

But like culling, this inner ONA business may be BS or urban legend.

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#54163 - 05/09/11 10:18 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: SinisterMoon]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"The ONA rails against and denounces what it calls *magian occultism* in which it includes LaVey, Crowley and others"

Since this is what YOU are claiming and believe, my question is simple....

What the fuck are you doing here posting on a site which YOUR BELIEFS and IDEAS rail against?

M
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#54167 - 05/09/11 10:48 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Morgan]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
"The ONA rails against and denounces what it calls *magian occultism* in which it includes LaVey, Crowley and others"

Since this is what YOU are claiming and believe, my question is simple....

What the fuck are you doing here posting on a site which YOUR BELIEFS and IDEAS rail against?

M


Quite simple, Morg. Because IT'S HERE. There are more people here to look at the vacuous dreck that's been posted and a better chance of SOMEONE... anyone... to ne impressed. Unfortunately, most of us aren't. and those who are... well, what can I say? I've seen people still fascinated with Rubik's Cube and the Magic 8 Ball.

AND again... because IT'S HERE. They either can't afford the cost of a domain where they could set up their own dissemination point, or their mommy won't let them, or they're too inept to get a free site somewhere. So they simply glom on to other's intellectual property to write their names on the wall of the restroom stalls and convince themselves it's public recognition.

It's internet graffiti in 10,000 words or more.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#54169 - 05/09/11 10:55 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Jake999]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
orderofthenineangles.com
orderofthenineangles.net
orderofthenineangles.org
ONA.org
Myattsmisfits.com
Myattsmisfits.net
Myattsmisfits.org
Culling.com
Culling.net
Culling.org

These are all available... so why?
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#54185 - 05/09/11 12:32 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Morgan]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:

What the fuck are you doing here posting on a site which YOUR BELIEFS and IDEAS rail against?


I see nothing wrong with it overall. 600C isn't some exclusive LaVeyan-only treehouse club with "no giRlz alLow3d!" scrawled on the door. (I for one am not LaVeyan and disagree with many here on a variety of issues, although I do not like using such labels.) There are enough similarities between the ONA and ideas of members here that a decent platform of discussion and debate can occur.

Besides, Fist made the whole thread in the first place, which was in effect an invitation for ONA participants to pitch in their two cents.

 Quote:
These are all available... so why?


http://www.o9a.org/ ... http://www.nineangles.info/ ...and numerous others. Personally I think it would be horrendously tacky for the ONA to have an 'official forum' (their wordpress blogs and facebook pages nonwithstanding).

I respect the Sepentary Path as a solitary method of individual self-evolution, but in regards to collectivism, the ONA has not proved itself exempt from the same leader-worship, hypocrisy, groupthink, e-drama, and us-versus-them myopia that plagues every other group out there.

The occult element is one instance. They rail against the supposed impurity of "Magian"-tainted occultism, when their own "Sinister Chants" are themselves Catholic hymns with a few words changed. (And with glaring Greek and Latin grammatical errors to boot! Shame on you, Dave! What would your abbot say?) In addition, while the idea of Septenary spheres is more purely Western in origin, its organization into a glyph of nodes and interconnected pathways associated with tarot cards is plainly derived from Qabalah.

The communal aspect is another. For example, while the ONA prides itself on its refined manners and air of elitism, this has not stopped its ranks from engaging in juvenile shit-smearing-fights with Tom Raspotnik. I don't think I have to name names, but certain ONA participants of this forum have not proven themselves above such puerile behavior, despite otherwise conducting themselves in a civil and intelligent manner regarding other areas of discussion.

And I do not think it requires a great depth of wisdom to judge the inherent hubris of a fringe-of-a-fringe sect who sincerely believe they are the heralds of a new dawn of human evolution that will eventually overthrow modern society and manifest a Galactic Empire powered by psychic "acausal technology".

Yet despite all these apparent flaws, I am not ready to simply dismiss the ONA outright because they still provide a certain level of discourse that I find engaging. Whether this is enough for some people, is not my call.

So what do the ONA do? In these matters, personal experience cannot be substituted with vague references to a group collectively, as opposed to practical intimations from a single individual.

But in the end I would really only care about "what those crazy kids are up to these days" if I sought to join them myself, or if one of their participants made some sort of claim to me.

By their fruits shall you know them.


Edited by The Zebu (05/09/11 12:54 PM)
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#54186 - 05/09/11 12:40 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: The Zebu]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I agree Zebu, it's open to all here.

I'm here too and you know, if Laveyan Satanism was a horse, I'd scream "Mercy please, have pity and put the poor thing out of it's misery!" but my difference in these views doesn't make me too dysfunctional. At least not at these levels.

Diversity is good, conflicting ideas aren't bad either.

D.

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#54188 - 05/09/11 12:44 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Jake999]
MindFux Offline
member


Registered: 12/27/10
Posts: 174
I have to agree. Promoting ONA doctrine here is like pissing up a wall. That's not a fault in the doctrine, or the Club, but it's just how it is. Though it is noteworthy that it was not an ONA affiliated individual that started this thread in the first place. The only potential answer I can offer Morgan is that people, of all propensities are equally provoked by a post aimed in their direction. That might be why Sinister Moon was drawn into the discussion.

The discussion, which has come up fairly regularly here at the Club, rapidly becomes, 'I was in the army and killed people, what are you going to do when the shootings starts?' vs. 'the only reason anyone in the ONA would join the army would be if they were Traditional and wanted to insight role, beyond that it's counter the doctrine'. Then of course you get a run of total fantasists making outrageous claims on both sides of the discussion that require equally extraordinary evidence, which is never forthcoming so it becomes a 'my dick is bigger than yours maybe', or 'your dick is imaginary vs. my dick is real but has nothing to do with Satanism'.

To simplify this right down to the core of it all, the ONA is a philosophy. A Way. Sure it has manifested in Traditional Satanism, Fascism, Radical Feminism, Radical Islam, even in one case extreme Christianity, but that's just the hats worn by the meme to appeal to individuals. The hat wearer is a LHP life philosophy focused on self development and self betterment through initially putting yourself in direct, physical and real conflict with the current Aeon, not for any higher end necessarily than measuring the effect it has on your psyche.

That conflict with the 'System' is an inherent and important part of the 'Way', and leads to the 'amoral mindset' over a period of years of practice where a kind of 'special pragmatism' becomes available to an individual. There are other routes to and other names for similar states.

Like attempting to live the 'Way of the Samurai' now (which many Japanese business men do) it has to be modified from its base form for cultural and individual purposes, which is why it'll never be pinned down as an 'Order'. Any more than calling someone a 'Postmodernist' means they have to cast aside Baudrillard and accept only Barthes.

Are there are a group of members of the ONA running marathons over hilly terrain in excess of the 6mph average speeds and carrying heavier weight than required in SAS selection for longer distances? I doubt it. Does that even matter to the ONA as a Way? Not really. Those 'standards' mutated over the years to a 'hard physical goal' in more resent documents. Alternate paths were opened to people because running in the fields isn't really promoting any kind of social change at all.

That's the point that often gets missed or glossed over as people mistake woods for trees. It's a philosophy, a living meme that has adapted and changed to promote a 'Sinister Character' and a 'Type of Person'. This assumption that carrying signs around and beating people, or protesting, or random and ultimately pointless nail bombings was the 'hay day' of the ONA is absurd. It achieved and amounted to nearly nothing. There is a new breed now that live in colleges, schools, universities, offices, working inside the system. I'd argue that one good instance of serious corporate sabotage has a higher dollar value impact than a nail bombing, but that's a side issue.

MF.





Edited by MindFux (05/09/11 12:46 PM)
Edit Reason: stupidity.

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#54191 - 05/09/11 01:03 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: MindFux]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"What the fuck are you doing here posting on a site which YOUR BELIEFS and IDEAS rail against?"

I know its an open source place.
I was just curious about this specific person.

How this specific person feels and why that specific person is posting.

Does that help?

M
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#54194 - 05/09/11 01:13 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
I agree that the ONA is -

 Originally Posted By: MindFux
a philosophy, a living meme that has adapted and changed to promote a 'Sinister Character' and a 'Type of Person'.


Yes, a philosophy, a way, that's changing and will continue to change because it's now a collective.

As someone wrote recently, it's a way, a means - not the end,

The ONA uses causal forms as a means. To try and encourage a type of person. What particular means that person uses is up to them.

I also agree that the ONA -

 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
still provide a certain level of discourse that I find engaging


Discourse, dialectic, adversarial. Perhaps therefore challenging, or even inspiring to a few.

The point really is that no one now controls the ONA - no one lays down rules or says you can't do that or this, like for instance that you can't slag off someone on a forum or make fun of Tubby Woodentop. If someone wants to do such things - great, for them. Maybe they'll learn something from the effort and experience, or just have some fun.

The amorality of the ONA extends to everything.

To conclude - the ONA is only a guide, possibly an inspiration for some. Probably an annoyance for many and irrelevant for some others. Take it, or leave it, or change it by using what you find interesting or useful and then developing your own way or group or whatever.

There's not much more to be said is there?

EOT??

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#54195 - 05/09/11 01:16 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: MindFux]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: MindFux
I have to agree. Promoting ONA doctrine here is like pissing up a wall. That's not a fault in the doctrine, or the Club, but it's just how it is.


Although ONA sure does provide its necessary heresies, one of the problems is age. We old-timers tend to think our way was way better. You know, in our days we, each day, had to crawl through snow up to our ears and wrestle a grizzly just to get our dinner. But times change and approaches change and some that worked for us, don't do it any longer. But it's hard you know, keeping up and adapting with change.

Now, did I tell you about the day I...

D.

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#54198 - 05/09/11 01:33 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Diavolo]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
in our days we, each day, had to crawl through snow up to our ears and wrestle a grizzly just to get our dinner.


Oh come on now you had it easy - we really old timers had to free climb up part of Mount Kilimanjaro then go find and shoot a Rhino with bows and arrows and then stalk and kill a Zebra all before breakfast.

We had to go hunt our breakfast too, and lunch and dinner...

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#54201 - 05/09/11 02:41 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: SinisterMoon]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
I helped two police officers to rescue a hedgehog in the middle of a busy road, and wrestled with a little old lady for the last packet of kippers on special offer in the local supermarket, and won. So mundane but you make of life what you find in it. Tomorrow I will do something more exciting like finish a crossword puzzle.
_________________________
Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

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#54202 - 05/09/11 02:41 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: The Zebu]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
And with glaring Greek and Latin grammatical errors to boot! Shame on you, Dave!

Here's the stock, off the shelf, ONA answer to such errors and msitakes, taken from something Dave - sorry, I meant Anton Long - wrote - some two years ago. Yeah I know it's long, but what the heck.

BTW I've highlighted in bold the important bit - at least for.

 Quote:
Someone has brought to my attention what appears to be a basic grammatical mistake in the chant Agios o Baphomet, since Baphomet is female. Is it a mistake?

Although this question of alleged “mistakes” in some ONA MSS, or in some ONA traditions, has been mentioned several times before, in some other mostly older ONA MSS, it does perhaps merit some further explanation, particularly since the ONA mythos and the ONA methodology has now seeded itself among thousands and thousands of people worldwide, some of who may well be pouring over various ONS MSS in the hope of sinister enlightenment.

In this matter, one must apply the fundamental esoteric principle of there possibly being an outer, exoteric (or dhir) meaning and/or intent, and there being an inner, esoteric (or batin) meaning and/or intent.

Thus, is what is first perceived as a mistake or an error, really so? Is it a real error, or a typo in the MS; or might it be a test designed to (1) encourage those possessed of our character, our ethos, to reflect further upon the matter and/or to research further, or (2) to encourage the mundanes the make the mistaken conclusion they make by virtue of their mundane personal character? Or, might it indeed be a mistake?

Our ethos is that of the individual of strong personal character who strives to learn by experience, by doing. Such a person questions; they seek to find their own answers; they challenge everything, and do not merely accept something just because it is in some MS or in some book or because someone has told them something.

The author of a particular MS may indeed have made an error – no human entity is infallible, and no one in the ONA claims to be so infallible, or claims their work is divinely or diabolically inspired by some “higher entity”. I, personally, have made many mistakes, and some of my MSS may indeed contain contain some undeliberate errors.

Thus, it is for each individual to ascertain, if they can, where the truth may (or may not) lie. If a particular matter concerns them and they cannot be bothered to so ascertain the direction in which “the truth” (or the error) may lie, then they are not “of us”; but rather more akin to a mundane. Several ONA MSS – especially some “older” ones – may have some traps for the unwary; may lead some mundane who reads them to make certain false conclusions; and may, just may, inspire a few individuals of sinister character to discover certain matters for themselves.

Thus, and in respect of the particular example you cite, someone possessed of our sinister character, our ethos, might – after reflexion upon and/or further research into the matter – conclude that it is not an error because the entities being mentioned and “invoked” by such a vibration/chant are beyond the limited causal category – our limited dichotomy – of male and female. That is, our rather limited classification of sentient beings into just two categories, male and female, is or may not be strictly applicable to such acausal entities. A really talented individual might go even further, and be inspired to seek to invent some type of language – or some collocation of symbols – which goes beyond such limited causal categories. And so on.


The source for this is -

http://antonlong.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/some-notes-on-mythos-and-methodology/

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#54203 - 05/09/11 03:07 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: SinisterMoon]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: SinisterMoon

Oh come on now you had it easy - we really old timers had to free climb up part of Mount Kilimanjaro then go find and shoot a Rhino with bows and arrows and then stalk and kill a Zebra all before breakfast.

We had to go hunt our breakfast too, and lunch and dinner...




41... huh.

When I was a youngster, Killimanjaro was just a hill out back of town that we had to pass to get to the dinosaur steaks.

(Aquino will be snorkeling for amoeba in the primordial ooze in the next post. He's got me beat by a couple of years.)
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#54204 - 05/09/11 03:11 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: MindFux]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: MindFux
Are there are a group of members of the ONA running marathons over hilly terrain in excess of the 6mph average speeds and carrying heavier weight than required in SAS selection for longer distances? I doubt it. Does that even matter to the ONA as a Way? Not really. Those 'standards' mutated over the years to a 'hard physical goal' in more resent documents. Alternate paths were opened to people because running in the fields isn't really promoting any kind of social change at all.


The physical goals of the ONA, although admirable, aren't what I'd call important. Of course if you got the body type of a hippopotamus and your heartbeat climbs to 180 when lifting that slice of pizza, you're not going to be too competent trying anything which involves action. As such it is preferable to have a body which doesn't collapse too easy. A functioning brain wouldn't be bad either. But running? I've been in the army for some years, first as recon, then as a drill sarg and I've been running that much, that after I left, it wasn't any longer included in my “top ten of things I like to do”. Shaving neither.

If you want to accomplish anything out there, running around in the woods isn't going to have much effect indeed. There's that which you personally undertake to “become” and there's that which requires participation. You don't really need to be Rambo and split a cow's skull in one blow to accomplish things. Often it requires something quite different, something more subtle.

The days we got things done by painting our face blue and clubbing each other are gone. Of course such might still be a handy skill if needed but when you prefer to see things go your way, you have to go in there, not hang out somewhere.

D.

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#54205 - 05/09/11 03:14 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Jake999]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
(Aquino will be snorkeling for amoeba in the primordial ooze in the next post. He's got me beat by a couple of years.)


Wasn't he the one mentioned in Genesis?

D.

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#54208 - 05/09/11 03:38 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Diavolo]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
He probably WROTE Genesis. Autobiography is his specialty! \:\)
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#54213 - 05/09/11 06:00 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: SinisterMoon]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
The 'Agios o Baphomet' issue is a bit sketchy and open to interpretation, but there is also the matter of 'Agios o Kabeiri'-- Kabeiri is a plural noun, and likewise should be the corresponding adjective, which would result in 'Agioi o Kabeiri'. I also mention the rather odd fact that no ONA writer has ever bothered to decline the latin 'Satanas' at all. For instance-- "Ad Satanas qui laetificat iuventutem meam" should read "Ad Satanam...", the accusative case being proper. Likewise, "Suscipe, Satanas, munus quad tibi offerimus" stands corrected as "Suscipe, Satana...". The list goes on.

At the same time, it doesn't really matter in the big picture, or invalidate the ONA's overall method. I only bring these issues to light because as a former traditionalist Catholic, I have a soft spot for Latin. (And also because I am a gigantic nerd obsessed with detail.)


Edited by The Zebu (05/09/11 06:04 PM)
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#54220 - 05/09/11 07:38 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: The Zebu]
SinisterMoon Offline
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Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
The 'Agios o Baphomet' issue is a bit sketchy and open to interpretation, but there is also the matter of 'Agios o Kabeiri'-- Kabeiri is a plural noun, and likewise should be the corresponding adjective, which would result in 'Agioi o Kabeiri'. I also mention the rather odd fact that no ONA writer has ever bothered to decline the latin 'Satanas' at all. For instance-- "Ad Satanas qui laetificat iuventutem meam" should read "Ad Satanam...", the accusative case being proper. Likewise, "Suscipe, Satanas, munus quad tibi offerimus" stands corrected as "Suscipe, Satana...". The list goes on.

Very interesting. Maybe this brings up something that occured to me while reading the *E&OE* dislcaimer I posted in a previous reply which is hinted at in other texts about such matters.

What is a name, and do our gender, and singular and plural, apply to such entities as mentioned in the chants? Like singular and plural imply causality, like gender does imply our causal realm. But what about the acausal and acausal entities like Satan or Satanas is supposed to be (according to the ONA)? Can they be both singular and plural - at the same time, in acausal space/time? Shapeshifting not only in form but in gender and from singular to what we term plurality?

Is our language by definition suited only to describing causal entities? If so, is there a difference when a name is simply said, written, or when it's chanted and vibrated in an specific way in some ritual, like in the ONA's esoteric chant, with two or more people singing not in unison but in parallel intervals (like an octave and a fifth apart)? Does such a method of chanting *a name* then make it more than a name we read or speak?

I don't know. But it seems to hint at strange things. To a world we don't really know at all.

But maybe after all these errors were merely a test, a provocation perhaps to get people to think the above?

Or as most seem to believe they're just sloppy mistakes from someone who didn't know Latin or Greek and was just making it up as he went along. Or even silly mind games of some sort.

For you know the were a few times years back when I was reading some older ONA stuff, mostly from the 80's, when I had a sort of intuition of someone laughing at me, at others, studiously pouring over texts, and that those texts I was reading were some kind of *a jolly jape".

Like you say -

 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
it doesn't really matter in the big picture, or invalidate the ONA's overall method

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#74316 - 01/10/13 12:52 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: SinisterMoon]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
To MF's last point:

I take issue with the current state of ONA because it IS little more than an online "movement."

Yes, as a matter of fact, in the early days one was expected to hone the body and the mind. It was a requirement of initiates to spend a few solitary days in the wilderness living off the land. You were expected to engage in physical challenges.

The "new" material was created to drum up new membership. Kids today are, in fact, pretty fucking coddled and they just are not accustomed to doing anything hard. Those creating the material are equally inept. And to me, this is a bit shocking because you would think that 'mud runs' (Warrior Dash, Spartan Sprint, Tough Mudder) and the current Mixed Martial Arts craze would provide an ample vetting for young initiates. But of course, the current ONA "power structure" is adverse to doing anything physical or dangerous so, it does stand to reason.

The new initiate need not be an absolute beast. They just need to be in tune with the natural world, be physically sound, mentally and spiritually tough, and able to endure challenges that would make most people quit. To take this aspect out of the ONA is to create a philosophy so watered down from the original teachings as to be something entirely different. As I have pointed out elsewhere, the current torch bearers of ONA have done to Anton Long what Peter Gilmore has done to Anton LaVey.
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#74322 - 01/10/13 01:54 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3115
 Quote:
And to me, this is a bit shocking because you would think that 'mud runs' (Warrior Dash, Spartan Sprint, Tough Mudder) and the current Mixed Martial Arts craze would provide an ample vetting for young initiates. But of course, the current ONA "power structure" is adverse to doing anything physical or dangerous so, it does stand to reason.

There's more a trend to "reach the basics and staying there". MMA being reduced to a mere automatism of movements where the "run" is getting more emphasized then the actual "hit". (If there even is the mental capability to do so..).

The direct natural world has been changing. Trees became concrete buildings and physical build-up became something aesthetical. The proverbial beasts still feared and respected (albeit in a more degatory way).

The core ideas are still present. The problem is modern mentality and its need for proper guidance.
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#74324 - 01/10/13 02:10 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Dimitri]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri

There's more a trend to "reach the basics and staying there". MMA being reduced to a mere automatism of movements where the "run" is getting more emphasized then the actual "hit". (If there even is the mental capability to do so..).


And what makes you say that? Is this based on what you have seen on TV?

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri

The direct natural world has been changing. Trees became concrete buildings and physical build-up became something aesthetical.


Maybe in Europe?... In America (and Russia, and Canada for that matter) there are still vast tracks of true wilderness. People get lost and die in National Parks all of the time - and these are places patrolled by Forest Rangers. I have been in some rather remote places. I would argue that if you are having trouble finding the wilderness, perhaps you are not looking very hard. But be warned, 90% of the Earth's land mass has no cell phone coverage...
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#74326 - 01/10/13 02:23 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3115
 Quote:
And what makes you say that? Is this based on what you have seen on TV?

Generally looking at people in situations which require a little more skill to maintain living conditions. I frequently go for the woods for a few days (or in the last couple of years: weekends) with nothing but a tent and sleeping bag.

And for a social animal like myself who also happens to frequent local pubs, bar fights ain't something alien. I've seen enough martial artists being kicked and punched into a pulp. Highly educated in their field, yet their automatic movements aren't familiar with some real experience.

Finding remote places is not so much a problem. Creating time however.. there are duties and agreements I have to live up to. It also stand to question what's more convenient... learning to survive, fight and adapt to an urban area (where I probably will be spending most of my time) or in a remote place?

My likeliness for being trapped in a remote desert place isn't as high as the other.

Besides... I seldom watch television ;\)


Edited by Dimitri (01/10/13 02:34 PM)
Edit Reason: additional+grammar
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#74334 - 01/10/13 06:26 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2517
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Fist
90% of the Earth's land mass has no cell phone coverage...

If you're going to live in that 90%, just get a satphone.

 Originally Posted By: Dmitri
I've seen enough martial artists being kicked and punched into a pulp. Highly educated in their field, yet their automatic movements aren't familiar with some real experience.

Point well-taken. The atmosphere of a sport dojo is controlled and collectively understood. A spontaneous "real" fight, in a bar or elsewhere, is not. An entirely different mental attitude applies, though some martial artists are also "seasoned" in it.

Another danger is that the close-combat skills we learned in the Special Forces are not intended to merely incapacitate an attacker, but to kill him as quickly and efficiently as possible. So it's best not to get into a scrap with someone with that background if there's a chance of things escalating out of hand. Presumably police departments train their officers with an incapacitation, not a killing emphasis, and with minimal physical injury.
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#74339 - 01/10/13 08:25 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
To their credit, I think it's easier to poke at the "new" ONA because there's so much more online, and so much less mystery. Everyone's got links to their YouTube channels and Wordpress blogs, posting in other forums where they joke around, gossip internet drama, and shoot the breeze about random shit. It was definitely easier to paint a more sinister picture of the ONA when all you had was a couple of cryptic MSS about human sacrifice and some ominous-looking newspaper clippings about evil nazi devil-worshipers. But whose to say that most of their following back then weren't just zine-hoarding "chaos magickians" who spent their spare time jerking off over Lovecraft paperbacks?

Most ONA writers still stress the centrality of the Sevenfold Way, so I don't see how anything has been "removed". Besides, they've always had the concept of associates and balobians or whatnot on the sidelines, so what much is different from then, if not merely their secrecy and public image?
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#74345 - 01/11/13 01:17 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Dimitri]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
I've seen enough martial artists being kicked and punched into a pulp. Highly educated in their field, yet their automatic movements aren't familiar with some real experience.


Ah yes, the old "my Kung-Fu is better than your Kung-Fu." "Martial Artist" as become something of a misnomer. Any good martial arts program trains you in such a way so the the training and combat look almost identical. As Jewish Historian Flavius Josephus observed of the Roman Army, "Their drills are bloodless battles, and their battles bloody drills."

The problem with most "martial art" today is they are sad sporterized versions of the original combat art. Most are far to focused on form over function. As Mike Tyson points out 'Everyone has a plan until they are hit in the mouth.' I covered what works and what doesn't work in actual combat on page 4 of this thread: http://www.the600club.com/topic56927-4.html

However, more important than simple technique, is the mental willingness to engage and destroy an enemy in close combat. And on this count, most are lacking the most fundamental elements.
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#74348 - 01/11/13 04:03 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3115
[quick reply]
There doesn't necesarily needs to be a "better than"-idea.
Fighting can occur without a state war. Essentialy, its focus is on what to do in a fight or in combat (at least in sporterized version) and not so much on a quick escalation of situations. It's implied both parties have the space to fight but it's seldom taken into account other positions alike laying down, sitting down or being stuck in a corner happen more frequently.

There can be a lot of training in any martial art, the swiftness of surprise and present situation in which you're in aren't chosen. The experience and skill of combat doesn't prevent being overwhelmed by a lesser experienced. It only holds the potential of having an edge.

 Quote:
Most ONA writers still stress the centrality of the Sevenfold Way, so I don't see how anything has been "removed". Besides, they've always had the concept of associates and balobians or whatnot on the sidelines, so what much is different from then, if not merely their secrecy and public image?

There's a difference in stressing out its core-status by various writings and actually "doing it". The gathering of books and scriptures is easy. The experience and more physical tasks are more mentally searched past experiences in order to evade the tasks up ahead. Making adjustments to these past stories so they fall in line with the "teachings" is much easier than doing the physical tasks...

At least, that's something I noticed into the "new" generation who claim to follow the 7FW.


Edited by Dimitri (01/11/13 04:08 AM)
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#74392 - 01/12/13 11:19 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Dimitri]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like the grade rituals of the Sevenfold Way are pretty much just physical tasks, with some traditional occult study in between. I'm sure there are lots of people who just halfass around with the Black Book of Satan and tarot pathworkings, but if they never make any steps towards Adeptship, I'd hardly call that "walking" the path-- more like standing halfway in the doorway and looking around at the scenery.

Then again, I'm just an interested observer, so I haven't straight-up spoken to many Niners about what they actually practice.


Edited by The Zebu (01/12/13 11:20 PM)
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#74405 - 01/13/13 10:41 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: The Zebu]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like the grade rituals of the Sevenfold Way are pretty much just physical tasks, with some traditional occult study in between.


You are correct. However, as shown above, all of that hard physical stuff has been dropped because the current crop of Online-A are not fit for the task. So, the physical has been replace by the cyber with some traditional occult study in between, and empty posturing about 'culling.'

Now, some have asked "Fist, why you be'in all down and shit on the O9A." Well, Spoonie, the reason is that in the digital age most directionless kids (and more than a few grown losers) are looking for outlets like the ONA in it's heyday. And those folks are using the internet to find places they belong. When you google around for ONA info (or Satanism in general) you will inevitably be directed here. So, I offer my experience and commentary as just one more value added service that I provide to the 'youth of today.'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSAbdmpNmK4

'It might take a bit of violence, but only violence in excess...'
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#74407 - 01/13/13 11:11 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
Caladrius Offline
member


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 318
Loc: SoCal
 Originally Posted By: Fist
 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like the grade rituals of the Sevenfold Way are pretty much just physical tasks, with some traditional occult study in between.


You are correct. However, as shown above, all of that hard physical stuff has been dropped...



As The Zebu said several times, nothing has been dropped as Fist is implying. I'd like to challenge Fist here to provide proof or evidence to actually show that ONA has "dropped" anything.

It has been stated and re-stated over and over again by every ONA person for the past 40 fucking years that all the physical tasks in the 7FW is still applicable. That includes all the physical training, the 3 months of camping alone, the 6 month of living alone in a cave, and the rite of recalling. See Here for example.

I understand Fist is trying to be helpful, but if you are going to try over and over again to make ONA look like it dropped shit, then provide evidence to support such assertions.

Nowhere in these 8000 Pages does it support Fist's claims that the hard physical tasks are dropped or have been dropped. In fact the opposite is stated in most of those 8000 pages. I suggest anyone actually interested to simple read around, rather than accept the claims Fist is trying to make.

No one in the inner crowd of ONA - not Anton Long, Not Beesty, Not the Old Guard, Not the current Outer Rep, nor the current body of initiates - has dropped anything as Fist continues to assert.

Fist does not speak for ONA. He hardly knows what ONA is. Even in this very same thread, a year ago, Fist had a hard time telling the difference between ONA, C18, C88, the US Military, and Rambo movies.


Edited by Caladrius (01/13/13 11:14 AM)
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#74412 - 01/13/13 11:59 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Caladrius]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
I am not sure which one of the three people you share you account with is actually posting, but today I will assume it is the Asian female.

Sorry, but everything you posted is just a script you have been handed - physical training, the 3 months of camping alone, the 6 month of living alone in a cave, and the rite of recalling. I hope you are not serious. Honestly, I must ask, which task did you and your three toughest friends undertake? And how did you eat while living in the wilderness for 3 month? What wilderness did you go to? This would be a fascinating story indeed!

In any event, like most of the kids in your group, you are sadly mistaken about what was going on with ONA in the early 90's. Unless you have ever been arrested and charged with a serious crime you cannot possibly know the pressure these guys were under. They were on an MI5 'watch list.' As I have pointed out many times, the smart ones disappeared into the wood work - many were the progenitors of C18, EDL, BNP and other such movements. Again, most of these organizations today have no idea how they even got started some 20 years after the fact. So, you talked to Anton Long on phone. And what? He is not telling you exactly what he wants you to hear? And are you not being told exactly what you want to here? In tradecraft do you know what a 'handler' is? How do you know you are not being played?

Seriously, I would encourage you to do your own independent research. Food for thought: in the UK the BNP and EDL are well known organizations. What would happen if your average Briton learned of their more sinister origins? Think about it...
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#74413 - 01/13/13 12:30 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
swaorlaf111 Offline
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Registered: 12/20/12
Posts: 32
Loc: spokane, wa
I think it would be hypocritical to assume killing is not a part of society whether it is socially acceptable or not. The ONA's decisions were based on their OWN subjective ethics. They will answer for their own actions like anyone else. My hope is that Satanists will recognize they should want to attain the best everything life has to offer and the best can not be attained if you are sitting behind bars. Respect,hard work, and integrity should ground all branches of Satanism, including the ONA.
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#74549 - 01/16/13 04:10 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Caladrius]
Clarence Offline
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Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 61
Have you excluded the possibility that Fist was being facetious?

I recall AL once wrote that the tasks were invented by himself - that is to say, that he modernized, adapted and made accessible the traditional challenges for a wider body of potential initiates. Those traditionl methods have not been made public to my knowledge. Also, that anyone interested may design their own, as befits their needs. Meeting and overcoming these obstacles - whatever they may be - seems to be the only relevant issue.

For certain types of person general athleticism may be of less import than precision driving, marksmanship, technical knowledge and other forms of tradecraft (It would be gross ineptitude to fall back on long distance running to save your bacon, right?). There may be more practical methods should you choose to look elsewhere.

And yes, I am aware of the physiological effect that my alternatives lack. Some analogues spring to mind - I will not elaborate here - perhaps they are akin to those traditional ordeals that Mr. Long only hinted at \:\) .

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#74612 - 01/18/13 03:23 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Clarence]
Fist Moderator Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Clarence
Have you excluded the possibility that Fist was being facetious?



How so? I am pretty sure I meant what I said.

 Quote:
I recall AL once wrote that the tasks were invented by himself - that is to say, that he modernized, adapted and made accessible the traditional challenges for a wider body of potential initiates.


What time frame are you talking about? When did this happen? And which AL are you speaking of? The new one or the old one. You see, it seems that someone has been writing under the name AL. As for invented, well yes, and more to the point, none of the OG ONA were capable of most of the physical tasks that they prescribed for initiates.

 Quote:
Those traditionl methods have not been made public to my knowledge.


Every tradition has some form of initiation and right of passage. They do not very all that greatly. LaVey once pointed out that the problem with modern society is that we no longer have rights of passage in the traditional sense.

 Quote:
Also, that anyone interested may design their own, as befits their needs. Meeting and overcoming these obstacles - whatever they may be - seems to be the only relevant issue.


Ah, yes. The old 'everyone gets a trophy.' Dumbing down. The only standard is that there is no standard. If it were easy, everyone would be doing it. It is not suppose to be easy because The Way is not for the faint of heart.

 Quote:
For certain types of person general athleticism may be of less import than precision driving, marksmanship, technical knowledge and other forms of tradecraft (It would be gross ineptitude to fall back on long distance running to save your bacon, right?).


Physical fitness affects nearly every aspect of your life. Even though I have extensive training and experience in many of the areas you mention above, I have never once wished that I was weaker or had poor cardio. I would not want to 'roll' with a crew that was not in good shape. And besides, I like to look good naked.

 Quote:
And yes, I am aware of the physiological effect that my alternatives lack...


But are you aware of what they lack spiritually? If you don't actually have to earn it than you will never truly appreciate it and thus will never internalize it.
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#74615 - 01/18/13 11:04 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
Caladrius Offline
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Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 318
Loc: SoCal
 Originally Posted By: Fist


You see, it seems that someone has been writing under the name AL.


Fist has a bad habit of making unfounded assertions and not being able to back these assertions up with any REAL PROOF.

I challenge Fist to provide any proof or evidence to show that there are two Anton Longs.

At least 4 academics from respectable universities have interviewed Anton Long recently: 1) Dr. James Lewis, 2) Dr. Connell Monette, 3) Jacob C. Senholt, & Hannah Lindsay who did a lecture on ONA. Dr. Monette was the last person to interview Anton Long before he retired from ONA service.

None of the named academics suggested that the AL they spoke with was a fake.

If we believe that David Myatt is AL, then Julie R. Wright who is a personal friend of David Myatt of 30 years or so has not suggested anything about there being an impostor. You would think that someone somewhere around David Myatt would say something if somebody was pretending to be AL. Julie Wright even confirms that Anton Long as of 2011 has retired from ONA.

So, again, I simply ask that Fist provide evidence and proof to support his assumptions. I'm very interested now in where he is getting his ["authoritative"] information. I highly doubt he will be able to provide proof. He'll just ramble on about C18 which has nothing to do with ONA proper.

Since we are on the topic of ONA, Oxford Press has come out with a book entirely about Satanism in the modern age. The 12th chapter is dedicated to the Order of Nine Angles. The book is called The Devil's Party.



Edited by Caladrius (01/18/13 11:16 AM)
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#74616 - 01/18/13 11:15 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Caladrius]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3115
I don't see much of a claim, only raising a doubt.

Now, for the 4 academics.. was it in person? Was an identification asked? It might as well be the case someone else gave the answers under the pseudonym. After all, no physical features of AL were ever shared... the claim of DM being AL has also never been proven and it is repeatedly stated it's but a pseudonym.

I wouldn't be too surprised being 2 or more people behind the pseudonym. After all, it's an activity whom isn't alien or rare among their modern folks.

The academical works themselves aren't mindshocking/renewing either. It might as well been ripped off of any of the documents floating around cyberspace.

Mind games? Perhaps, but I'm more inclined to belief it's hunting ghosts. (And I don't believe in those either)


Edited by Dimitri (01/18/13 12:05 PM)
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#74619 - 01/18/13 01:32 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Caladrius]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Originally Posted By: Caladrius


Fist has a bad habit of making unfounded assertions and not being able to back these assertions up with any REAL PROOF.



You so me yours and I will show you mine. Show me where anyone in the ONA has ever made a 30 mile road march in hilly terrain in 7 hours with 30lbs on their back. A good deal of ONA material is pure bravado. If something is questionable, I am going to call it into question.

 Quote:
I challenge Fist to provide any proof or evidence to show that there are two Anton Longs.


Hell, there might be six. I don't know. What I do know is that over the years, Anton Long has had several different writing styles.

 Quote:
At least 4 academics from respectable universities have interviewed Anton Long recently...


Thus begging the question, why now and why these particular researchers? My read is these researchers are people in the Myatt orbit who did softball research to support a certain outcome. Or they are simply stenographers for AL. The 'research' seems to simply be reporting what they were told over the phone. Did they get two forms of govt ID (and then check with issuing agency) from Anton Long? How did they know they had the right guy?


 Quote:
If we believe that David Myatt is AL, then Julie R. Wright who is a personal friend of David Myatt of 30 years or so has not suggested anything about there being an impostor.


As if she knows the comings and goings of Myatt. Even if she did know all of his personal business, I would think a personal friend of 30 years would say whatever you asked them to say on your behalf.

 Quote:
You would think that someone somewhere around David Myatt would say something if somebody was pretending to be AL.


I am pretty sure Myatt know what AL is doing at any given minute of the day. The real question is if Myatt is pretending to be AL. Or if Myatt is feeding AL (or the AL committee) material to write. Or if Myatt told some folks to take the AL pen name and do what you want with it.

 Quote:
Julie Wright even confirms that Anton Long as of 2011 has retired from ONA.


How does she know that? Does she have AL's retirement papers from the ONA? Or, did she get a phone call from someone who identified themselves as AL over the phone. What are these people using as bona fides? Or, are they just being fed material like so many others?

 Quote:
So, again, I simply ask that Fist provide evidence and proof to support his assumptions.


And, again, I am calling into question the questionable. Because, unlike many people, I have a very skeptical and inquiring mind and I tend to not take 'authoritative' information at face value.You see, I actually know what the ONA is angling for where as this new batch of Myatt groupies is just out to play games.
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#74631 - 01/19/13 12:26 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
Clarence Offline
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Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 61
 Originally Posted By: Fist
 Originally Posted By: Clarence
Have you excluded the possibility that Fist was being facetious?



How so? I am pretty sure I meant what I said.


As may be. Distrust is my default. I do not claim to speak for another.

 Originally Posted By: Fist
 Originally Posted By: Clarence
I recall AL once wrote that the tasks were invented by himself - that is to say, that he modernized, adapted and made accessible the traditional challenges for a wider body of potential initiates.


What time frame are you talking about? When did this happen? And which AL are you speaking of? The new one or the old one. You see, it seems that someone has been writing under the name AL. As for invented, well yes, and more to the point, none of the OG ONA were capable of most of the physical tasks that they prescribed for initiates.


Early days. http://baeldraca.wordpress.com/2010/12/01/diablerie-part-one/ The psychotic entity behind this wordpress has the keys and may be happy to share the rest. I enquired of a different matter and was rewarded with some interesting sketches... anyhow, yes

I am very aware that more than one creature has employed that particular nym for whatever purpose. May I enquire as to how you are on intimate terms with the OG - in relation to their physical condition I mean, and what they may or may not have been capable of?

 Originally Posted By: Fist
 Originally Posted By: Clarence
Those traditionl methods have not been made public to my knowledge. Also, that anyone interested may design their own, as befits their needs. Meeting and overcoming these obstacles - whatever they may be - seems to be the only relevant issue.


Ah, yes. The old 'everyone gets a trophy.' Dumbing down. The only standard is that there is no standard. If it were easy, everyone would be doing it. It is not suppose to be easy because The Way is not for the faint of heart.


Let me rephrase: a running contest may be of little relevance to a legless man... he may set about conquering the English Channel though, or blast through Paris in record time (a Ferrari seems well suited for some reason, specially equipped in the case of my metaphor-gimp \:\) ).

Neither of these would be easy. If you think otherwise, I'd recommend trying it. Legs optional ;\)

 Originally Posted By: Fist
 Originally Posted By: Clarence
For certain types of person general athleticism may be of less import than precision driving, marksmanship, technical knowledge and other forms of tradecraft (It would be gross ineptitude to fall back on long distance running to save your bacon, right?).


Physical fitness affects nearly every aspect of your life. Even though I have extensive training and experience in many of the areas you mention above, I have never once wished that I was weaker or had poor cardio. I would not want to 'roll' with a crew that was not in good shape. And besides, I like to look good naked.


You like the physical aspect. Me too. I do feel there are equally challenging methods to be deveolped, though.

I've led an active life - as a result, I am in outstanding health and possess a magnificent physique. Who's a pretty monkey! But as I age, I am steadily uncovering vestiges of that past activity - I will concede that I am not wholly as I was in my prime. The loss does not sadden me, nor am I hampered by it.

 Originally Posted By: Fist
 Originally Posted By: Clarence
And yes, I am aware of the physiological effect that my alternatives lack...


But are you aware of what they lack spiritually? If you don't actually have to earn it than you will never truly appreciate it and thus will never internalize it.


The spiritual... Need I really elaborate?

It was not my intention to say the physical standards are worthless, nor am I suggesting an easier path. I'm merely relaying the nature of something AL once intimated - that the physical goals were an invention, that there is something else beneath those tasks. I feel that other things are indeed interchangeable - a keen cyclist might conceivably focus on that; a runner - running (imagine that! writing your own proclivity into a myth) - so long as a person is honest with themself, and in their dedication to self mastery.

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#81715 - 10/29/13 01:43 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Clarence]
DargoF Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/28/13
Posts: 29
Well, this has been a really good topic, I wish I was here at the time being. Anyway, there are certain things I'd like to address.
As in many other places over the internet, there is this big talk of ONA going soft, of abandoning the hardcore style and stuff. Well, one can't say there is no truth in this, because along the way ONA lost some things it was best recognized for. But where? On the internet? I must say that I'm amazed how anything is being seen as relevant only if it is on internet, and that sites, blogs, videos of some of ONA people create an image of ONA being like this or that, soft or hardcore. It has been stated many times before, and even in this thread:
 Originally Posted By: SinisterMoon


Like I said in a reply on another ONA thread here - the ONA is now organized as a (mostly anonymous) leaderless collective with autonomous local groups/gangs/cells/nexions/temples, or individuals, doing their own stuff.

This is the *third stage* of ONA dvelopment - for there's now enough genuine info about the ONA, in printed form and online, for people to be inspired by it and if they're interested to put its methods into practice either in a group or on their own. That was the plan.

A lot - if not most - of these local groups and lone-wolf individuals don't have a presence on the net. If they recruit, they do it locally in the old fashioned way.

...

But it's now really for ONA individuals and local groups to be torch bearers - if they want, if they feel the desire to do so. Also, for them to choose what issues - political, social or whatever - they feel are important.



So, if certain nexions/temples/individuals find it more important to deal with esoteric issues, to focus on chants etc, and they happen to have online presence, this somehow defines entire ONA being soft? Like there are no other people inspired by ONA, doing some things in real world, like all of that was mentioned above, all the physical training, the 3 months of camping alone, the 6 month of living alone in a cave, and the rite of recalling.
If the online and other publications are that important, then read last couple editions of Fenrir. You will see that nothing has been dropped, it never was in the matter of fact.
Not to be misunderstood, I think they are both very important, both esoteric and other stuff, they are all part of the formulae. Many issues have been raised, like that the people won't get up of their ass and do stuff, that there are lot of pretenders, and this is all true. But do we really need to offer evidence for our actions only to discredit those pretenders? Like a photo of me holding a head of an opfer I just beheaded?! Or maybe GPS track of my 20 mile run? Or a video of my Temple performing Black Mass? I know we both agree that some of these things are not meant for public view for obvious reasons. But even if they weren't that incriminating, should there be really any need of proving one's dedication? Isn't it that the quality of self honesty that was much praised and emphasized over and over again? Well, if so, one needs to judge his own actions. How far he went „over the line“ of his own abilities and limitations, what he has risked in the process? How much did he confront himself? Does he need to do more in that respect? By having all these and similar questions constantly in mind, one will always be in touch with what he needs to do, and if he is honest in his quest, he will act accordingly. This is not always an easy task as one could get in the trouble of just pro forma performing the acts required, and see himself as somehow advanced in 7FW. This is yet another important dimension of self honesty. My point is that self honesty needs to remain most important criteria. And these kind of people will always keep ONA up and running. ONA is truly an ever evolving entity, and the ways of its development we may not be able to fully grasp, but the aims of the ONA should always remain at the highest regard. There will be a lot of things added, as it should be, but some core things will always remain, because of their importance that even Initiates should be able to understand.

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#83670 - 12/29/13 12:10 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: DargoF]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
I have given my thoughts on the current state of the ONA in many threads over this forum. But to recap and address your particular questions:

The fact is that ONA today is not your pappy's ONA. It is little more than people with an internet connection trying to revive what once was. Again, Xtians do this all of the time. Anyone who can read the King James Bible can stand on a street corner and preach Christianity. This does not mean they were at The Last Supper.

Most any would be O9Aer today hardly a physical specimen. One of the founding tenants of ONA is you had to know how to suffer - endure physical pain, deprivation, and isolation. The kids today are quite simply soft and weak.

And, again, the "evolution" of ONA is nothing more than some kids taking up 20 year old material, reading it, and dismissing the parts they don't like. It is not as if The Word has been handed down to the next generation.
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#83687 - 12/29/13 12:08 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
Zach_Black Offline
member


Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 541
Loc: San Diego, California
Well said Fist and I agree. Will the real slim shady please stand up. But hey, I did hear battery acid and a scrub brush will do away with those ONA tattoos.

Shit that kinda rhymes! Maybe I am the real slim shady.
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#83709 - 12/29/13 11:32 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
Kemble Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 139
Hey Fist-- I want to double check because that group and others have come up that support some pretty stupid activities. Do you folks, the supporting members of the 600 club, support criminal activity? I'll opt out of the boards if so. \:\(
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#83715 - 12/30/13 04:11 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Kemble]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3115
What kind of question is that?
Everyone is entitled to their opinions.
Everyone should face the consequences of their own actions.

There's no group supporting the endeavours of its members.
There's only members (of the club) who support on a free individual basis and by the own choice.
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#83716 - 12/30/13 08:48 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Dimitri]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
While I do respect Fists contributions here, and everywhere, I must interject - There NEVER WAS an ONA. ONA is as it as always has been, an idea, a vision, and a social phenomenon built of whispers and hearsay.

Sure, there were groups like c18 and such that got on board with these whispers, but their agendas were never ONA agendas, but racial agendas. Myatt/ONA sorts have always made a game of marrying 'ONA' to real world antinomian things, that's part of it's mystique.

ONA is as it always has been, divided between those that would make 'it' dogma, and those that use 'it' to herd people in a certain direction. It's certainly not a new trick, all religions use it.

And Zach..I'm surprised you don't have a sept tat by now. You seem to like to follow my lead on that front. If you do though, don't get it upside down, like your 'sulpher' tat ;\)
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#83724 - 12/30/13 10:22 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Kemble]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6673
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Kemble
Do you folks, the supporting members of the 600 club, support criminal activity? I'll opt out of the boards if so. \:\(


Man, if that's all it takes may as well opt out now.

Get out and jay-walk, liberate yourself
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#83725 - 12/30/13 11:08 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Kemble]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
Kemble:
 Quote:
Hey Fist-- I want to double check because that group and others have come up that support some pretty stupid activities. Do you folks, the supporting members of the 600 club, support criminal activity? I'll opt out of the boards if so. \:\(


Do you mean, 'support', as in passively give some ideological assent to an idea? Being 'against' criminality as an abstract means just as little as being 'for' it. And that because such people might share a different viewpoint from you, they are unworthy of rhetorical engagement?

I'm graciously assuming, based on the content of certain comments, that most people here are regular jerkoffs with jobs and cars and decent social lives, and are probably not posting this from a prison cell while their cellmate lies bleeding on the floor with a sharpened toothbrush handle protruding from their gurgling throat.

Dan:
 Quote:
While I do respect Fists contributions here, and everywhere, I must interject - There NEVER WAS an ONA. ONA is as it as always has been, an idea, a vision, and a social phenomenon built of whispers and hearsay.


It seems to me like everyone idealizes what the 'pre-internet' 'old guard' ONA used to be like. The 'old-guard' probably consisted of mostly hang-ons and everyone was just making shit up as they went along. I have a sneaking suspicion that there were just as many posers and do-nothings as there appear to be at present. Instead of hiding behind internet psuedonyms and prattling on forums and blogs, they hid behind letterheads and prattled on photocopied 'zines. Nobody could tell whether or not all their typewriter pen-pals were actually living in a daring and 'Sinister' way, or just jerking off on Cthulhu sigils like everyone else was back then.

It doesn't seem too far-fetched to guess that out of the many people who profess to 'be' ONA, that at least a few of them actually follow the Sevenfold Way and undertake the physical and occult trials, same as in the old days. Whether a bunch of disparate people trying to live up to this archetype constitutes 'the real ONA' is just a matter of perspective. Granted, the reality can never live up to the legend.

Brb gotta go rough up the new bitches.


Edited by The Zebu (12/30/13 11:26 AM)
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#83726 - 12/30/13 11:26 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: The Zebu]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6673
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
Instead of hiding behind internet psuedonyms and prattling on forums and blogs, they hid behind letterheads and prattled on typewritten 'zines.


Amen to that. I kind of miss the old mimeographed hand-outs. Every once and a while, I'll do a search to see if anyone held on to those artifacts and scanned them in for solidarity.

Those would be a gem for any collector. Sigh... Alas, I have yet to find any that I recall from the 80's.
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#83730 - 12/30/13 02:20 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: SIN3]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
I know right? It's a pretty widespread phenomenon,the casting of the pre-internet occult era as some sort of golden age.

Sorry to disappoint and or disillusion anyone who might be young enough not to remember those days, but it was just more of the same. Sure, there were less casuals and looky loo's, but all of this same pretentious nonsense still went on by snail mail.

The medium hasn't changed anything.
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#83731 - 12/30/13 02:27 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
No doubt. This was the case with every "subculture" I've ever been aware of.

I don't say this to devalue either but: 'Zinesters became Bloggers. Out.
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#83732 - 12/30/13 02:43 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Le Deluge]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6673
Loc: Virginia
I feel young as hell but man, that makes me sound like an old fart. Still, isn't it awesome to move with the technology?! Even when I say 'mimeograph' aloud, some 20-something is like "A what?"

ha


[Disclaimer: this is some high-tech stuff! We used the old fashioned hand-crank style]
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#83734 - 12/30/13 06:50 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: The Zebu]
Caladrius Offline
member


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 318
Loc: SoCal
 Originally Posted By: The Zebu

Dan:
 Quote:
While I do respect Fists contributions here, and everywhere, I must interject - There NEVER WAS an ONA. ONA is as it as always has been, an idea, a vision, and a social phenomenon built of whispers and hearsay.


It seems to me like everyone idealizes what the 'pre-internet' 'old guard' ONA used to be like. The 'old-guard' probably consisted of mostly hang-ons and everyone was just making shit up as they went along. I have a sneaking suspicion that there were just as many posers and do-nothings as there appear to be at present. Instead of hiding behind internet psuedonyms and prattling on forums and blogs, they hid behind letterheads and prattled on photocopied 'zines. Nobody could tell whether or not all their typewriter pen-pals were actually living in a daring and 'Sinister' way, or just jerking off on Cthulhu sigils like everyone else was back then.

It doesn't seem too far-fetched to guess that out of the many people who profess to 'be' ONA, that at least a few of them actually follow the Sevenfold Way and undertake the physical and occult trials, same as in the old days. Whether a bunch of disparate people trying to live up to this archetype constitutes 'the real ONA' is just a matter of perspective. Granted, the reality can never live up to the legend.

Brb gotta go rough up the new bitches.


I agree with Dan & Zeb.

The "Order of Nine Angles" i.e.: the Traditional Satanic thing founded on the Black Book of Satan & Naos, never existed as an "organization" or anything in the real world during the romanticized pre-internet zine days.

The phrase "ONA mythos" means something. It's a big ass hint. Those that "get it" run with it... those that don't, get "mindfucked." "ONA Mythos," or the "Mythos of ONA," or the "Myth of ONA," or the "Urban Legend of ONA," all mean the same thing.

The "Old ONA" existed only on paper - typewritten zines - just like the "real" and "old" and "original" Illuminati of Bavaria invented by Weishaupt & Von Knigge only existed on paper and was never an organized functioning entity with real members. In the same way that the "old" "original" and "troo" Rosicrucian Order only ever existed on paper as an IDEA a MYTH in papers like the Fama Fraternitatis and so on.

What's important in all three cases is not the fact that such "organizations" did or didn't exist. The important and aeonic thing is the MYTHOS - the Myth, Story, Circulated Narrations, Popular Belief, Legend - of these entities.

For the Mythos is what inspires and influences. It is the mythos of the Illuminati which inspired and influenced people who vibed with its mystique to create in the real world their own illuminati organization. And so you find old groups like the OTO with an Illuminati degree, AMORC's 12th degree is also named the Illuminati degree, the Highest degree of the Freemasonic Swedish Rite ends also with an Illuminati degree.

The same case with the Mythos of the Rosicrucians which started in the 1600s. The mythos attracts to it people who vibe with the aura and mystique and fable/narration, and they create their own Rosicrucian orders. And there are countless "Rosicrucian" orders around the world inspired and influenced into existence by the Mythos. Such as the Royal Order of Scotland which works two RC degrees; the Societas Rosicruciana In Anglia; the Inner Order degrees of the Golden Dawn are RC degrees; The 18th degree of the Scottish Rite is Rosicrucian; many of the higher degrees of the Rite of Memphis & Mizraim are Rosicrucian degrees.

The other important thing overlooked is that the Mythos, besides inspiring and influencing people to make their own organizations, also spreads the ideas and teachings associated with the same. And so we see with the many Illuminati orders that have or do exist similar Deistic teachings and teachings associated with the Age of Enlightenment. We see that with these Rosicrucian orders, they all share the same essential teachings and occult wisdom similar to what was originally presenced in the Fama Fraternitatis.

There is no evidence that during the Zine era of ONA that those who read such zines were members who submitted applications to Anton Long and got membership cards. The only objective stuff we have from that era are zines and early writings such as the Black Book of Satan and Naos. Which early stuff by the way had nothing to do with Nazism or National-Socialism or some racialist holy war. ONA and C18 are two entirely different things.

Most people seem to see ONA only from an outsider looking in perspective. The best way to come to a realistic and down to earth understanding of what the ONA was, is, and will always be is to try to see ONA from David Myatt's point of view.

For, from David Myatt's point of view, it matters very little if people are "genuine" ONA or "fake" ONA. Why not? Because regardless, the ONA is a vehicle he [DM] created to disseminate his own ideas and memes. And so it doesn't matter if a person is a True Believer ONAer and another is a pretender because in the end, who wins the Game? David Myatt does: his name circulates, his ideas circulates, his worldviews replicates and spreads, people worship satan like he says, people chant like he says to chant, people play starchess like he says to, people camp out in the woods like he says to, and so on.

However we all see ONA, and to what degree a person claiming ONA is Troo Blue, doesn't matter, because the only winner at the end of the day is David Myatt.

ONA is Mythos. All of the stuff Anton Long wrote back in the early days was him weaving the seeds of that Mythos. The Mythos inspires and influenced people who resonate with its aura and mystique. In turn such people either try to live the ONA Way, put together their own temples or nexions, put Anton Long's philosophy into practice. This in turn insures that the teachings, ideas, and memes, of Anton Long's Philosophy continues to spread, inspire, and influence. This is all the ONA was, is, and will ever be.
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#83736 - 12/30/13 07:23 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Caladrius]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
Honestly? Were it not for this forum I would not have heard of the ONA at all; literally. The OTO, C/S, ToV, ToS, Rosicrucians… these were all at least known prior to coming here. Crips, yeah I know some pretty cool Crips – they’re just putting in work, a Blood or two… but mmm not like on a “hey lets chill in my apt” type a way. Nomads, also cool, though a bit loud. Sturgis, sure a few… but there’s that generation gap.

I’m no expert, mind you, I mean I study other things outside of occultism but seriously, from my perspective the ONA doesn’t exist at all except as something people on this forum keep bringing up. Maybe it’s just over my head.

Of all the, shall we say, subversive groups a person can encounter the ONA seems the most insubstantial and by far. Or maybe it’s like asking who runs Annonymous – this too is possible.

The ideas seem sound, well, to an extent… but shit, I’m not even sure I’d really want to chill with anyone who took it all too seriously. *which I’m sure is fine, since anyone who does take it seriously probably wouldn’t want to chill with me either – all’s well that ends well.

Just saying, as a “mundane”, all I’m seeing is a lot of words. If someone out there actually takes it seriously – more power to you!
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#83742 - 12/31/13 11:43 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Kemble]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Originally Posted By: Kemble
Hey Fist-- I want to double check because that group and others have come up that support some pretty stupid activities. Do you folks, the supporting members of the 600 club, support criminal activity? I'll opt out of the boards if so. \:\(


Define "criminal activity."

Is murder illegal? Under the law, maybe.

The US govt routinely kills people. If you are a US citizen you may get a trial first. Unless of course, the police kill you first. Under the law (NDAA) the POTUS (really, his staff) can declare anyone a terrorist and assassinate them with a drone missile strike. This can happen anywhere in the world to include US soil. All perfectly legal. 'We' (the American people) killed hundreds of thousands (400,000?) of Iraqi civilians. All perfectly legal and chalked up to little more than just some inconsequential 'collateral damage.'

So I would ask you, who is the "criminal?" The people in govt? The people who support that govt? Just the govt employees who are "just following orders?" Who?

For me personally, I see nothing wrong with killing people. Some people just plain need to die. I would much rather kill someone because I had a compelling personal reason, than to kill someone because the govt told me to.
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#83743 - 12/31/13 11:47 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Good point Fist.

Who defines ultimate right and wrong, us or them? It is a very intimidating thing for some to claim total responsibility.

Murder is just killing we aren't allowed to do. Is a decorated soldier a murderer? Most would say no. But why?

Are political reasons for killing sanctioned by some arbitrary state more valid than killing for personal reasons? The answer to that resides with where you think ultimate authority comes from.
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#83744 - 12/31/13 09:00 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: antikarmatomic]
Czereda Online
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1760
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
Were it not for this forum I would not have heard of the ONA at all; literally.


Actually, there is plenty of information on the net, not just this forum. The reason why you didn't hear about it could be that you simply did not research other forms of Satanism apart from the "LaVeyan" form. Though I do agree that the Church of Satan is better known and more popular than the ONA.

 Quote:
Just saying, as a “mundane”, all I’m seeing is a lot of words. If someone out there actually takes it seriously – more power to you!


Mundane? So you don't study at Hogwarts? Sorry, but this whole thing brings "Harry Potter" to my mind, because of this division into Wizards and Muggles. It gets rather tense, even nasty in the last part "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows". Excellent reading, by the way. Rowling is not "ONA", is not even a Satanist, but she seems to understand human nature. Sadly enough, most people don't.

As you said, these are just words, a set of manuscripts, which have their own life, independent of their author or authors. People read them, discard what they don't like, pick up what they like and use it as it suits their fancy. It is the reader who gives meaning to a text. It is up to you what you will make of it.

Some people are indeed serious about it, it helped them to refine their thinking. Others are also serious in their own peculiar way, which means they read something and became totally mindfucked. It is not that difficult to twist something, to distort something so that it fits your little fucked-up mind. It is like searching for treasure. Sometimes you dig out a diamond, at other times a dead rotten mouse. The difference is fairly transparent.

I bet a bottle of Metaxa 12 stars on the stinking mouse, buddy. If I lose, remind me of our deal. Meanwhile, keep your fingers crossed.

Casino Royale
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#83747 - 01/01/14 04:30 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Fist]
Kemble Offline
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Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 139
Int'l law is a different category and side steps the question. I was focusing on personal conduct supporting, associating with, and engaging in criminality on county, state and federal levels ala "ona" or whatever. All patently stupid and adolescent. Looks like 600 participants are on board with that stuff -- not my cup of tea.
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#83748 - 01/01/14 08:38 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Kemble]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Registered: 09/22/13
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While I agree with you that it is incredibly juvenile to *promote* criminal activity on such a public forum, one of the pillars of this site seems to be (among a few others) “critical thinking”. Censorship is a disservice to the exercise of critical thinking.

I personally do not agree with the idea of culling, and I definitely agree that it is a somewhat reckless move to promote such a thing regardless of if it is all-talk or the real deal. Yet, I cannot argue that the topic itself is worthy of discussion and protected under the first amendment (for now any way, and at least if you live in the US).

I do agree that killing and murder are purely arbitrary legal contexts, but on that same token I think if you spend your whole life confronting taboos you’re basically spinning your tires in the mud in as much as an aesthetic is. I also think if you are spending our whole life avoiding taboos you're no better off either.

It’s a bit like getting so side-tracked by shooting down each and every peripheral enemy that it becomes almost better to do that than to accomplish your mission. Time runs out. By the time you are finished testing yourself you will most likely be too old to put any of it to use. Pick your battles. Save some sacred cows. Have some shit that is just like "well, it's not that I *wouldn't* but I'd rather not"... in other-words develop... mmm... what's that word? oh right!... character.

Similarly, another “taboo” would be drug usage. Some drugs are prescribed; some are dealt on street corners. Some murders are enacted by executive order; some too are dealt on street corners. Would you advocate shooting junk just to push your limits? Probably not.

My being here at the 600club does not imply that I agree with everything that is posted here. Often I don’t. My being here indicates nothing more or less than that I enjoy typing to strangers w/r/t dark abstractions. No pigeon-holing. I may not like what you have to say, but I will consider it.

Similarly, the C/S does sort of form the initial foundation of my understanding of the Satanic, since… well… I read the SB when I was 13 and it stuck ever since. I didn’t have internet til I was 20… so somehow I’ve come to trust books more. You could say the early bird gets the worm.

Then again, I am doubtful Presbyterians spend a whole lot of time researching the Jewish orthodoxy or even Catholicism. It is just what they grew up with. Subsequently "theirs" is no more a "true" Satanism than there is a "true" Islam or a "true" Christianity. No one changes faith by losing a debate. A lot of it is all about chance and happenstance.

This is a generational thing, but on that same note, anyone can post anything on the internet. It doesn’t have to be vetted;the author needn’t be known. If someone puts a book out there, chances are the paper trail from the publisher will reveal who they are.

Did I contradict my early point about true names? Sorta, but I figure – leave it up to the individual.

If they want to use a pen name and mind-fuck people, “dropping their docs” (seriously that is a strange phrasing to me) doesn’t really accomplish much. It has been said before – you are not your opinions.

If I think culling should be ok does not implicate me in having killed anyone.

If I think shooting IV coke should be ok does not implicate me in having sold coke. If I agree all drugs should be legal, does that make me a drug dealer? Well, no… but it might subject me to further scrutiny.

Shoot people; shoot junk. Be so bad-ass. The stuff your parents warned you against being.

Just shoot.

Anything you say can and will be used against you. You have no right to the expectation of privacy – not here – not anywhere else - not anymore.

I would, however, advise a sense of discretion as to what you “back” online in as much as what you reveal about others and as a simple matter of courtesy between opponents – keep the PII out of it.

For my part, I don’t think killing or culling would do much more for my “spiritual development” than pedophiliac mega-lolz would.

Killing / murder doesn’t fascinate me. It is a non-issue – either a job to be done or a mistake to be made; perfectly perfunctory when it comes to that.

It’s not like a base-head prostitute is somehow more antinomian, or that antinomianism is any guarantee of enlightenment. In fact it’s just a really obscure word for… mmm… differing with the Christian faith rules and expectations… which only has context in terms of Christian suppositions... which are completely irrelevant anyway. Unless the satanic need be relegated to a sort of Abrahamic lysosome... implicitly conceding dependence. that too is, in no uncertain terms, silly.

Then again I piss in my sink sometimes because it is closer, my piss is sterile, and it is usual devoid of dishes anyway – spotlessly clean. Am I gross or just pragmatic? Did I cross some deep chasm in my evolution as an individual? Not really.

If I were to do something completely against my nature would I be better for it? What society thinks I should be like? No, I think no. I would rather be “most oneself” – I am that I am – not what wordpress suggests I ought or ought not be. But hey! if eating a lump of human turd or having sex with your parents or pets makes you somehow more "sinister"... who am I deprive anyone of that? 'not sure what exactly you accomplished, but nice work; I guess :/"

Incidentally… a WHOLE tarot deck??? That shit’d take years! Probably a harder task then killing some dude. Easily :| I'd give you more props for making a whole tarot deck than killing someone... any day of the week... seriously that is a fuck-ton of cards to paint.


Edited by antikarmatomic (01/01/14 09:27 PM)
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#83758 - 01/02/14 02:45 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: antikarmatomic]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6673
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: antikarmatomic
While I agree with you that it is incredibly juvenile to *promote* criminal activity on such a public forum, one of the pillars of this site seems to be (among a few others) “critical thinking”. Censorship is a disservice to the exercise of critical thinking.


In what manner is it juvenile? There's a ton of arbitrary laws that people do not abide by. Culling is a 'taboo', even for Satanists. It's fear generated, which is why a lot of the ONA MSS smacks of challenge. The gauntlet is laid down and it's pretty amusing to vet out what people really think.

 Quote:


I personally do not agree with the idea of culling, and I definitely agree that it is a somewhat reckless move to promote such a thing regardless of if it is all-talk or the real deal.


Is it reckless because you believe you'll be plucked out of a line up for having provocative ideas? Is one provocative idea any better or worse than another? Residual SRA/Panic?

 Quote:


Yet, I cannot argue that the topic itself is worthy of discussion and protected under the first amendment (for now any way, and at least if you live in the US).




So, because it's protected its safe? If you're worried about your society holding you accountable, Rights are just privileges allotted to you. That should be rather evident by the number of people that say things in Social Media and yet are picked up for questioning by the FBI (i.e. Brandon Raub), arrested or are disappeared.

If the atmosphere is concerning, I would think a person should be able to manage their own compulsions to post here. The way I see it, you're already associated with an account.
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#83760 - 01/02/14 08:40 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: SIN3]
antikarmatomic Offline
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‘a properly interrogative response to a post that, even as I re-read, think was more than a ‘lil sub-par and incoherent. One of those cringe-worthy rants where the process of writing sort of runs away with the sleigh. It’s in no way, shape, or form deliberate, just remarking on how baffled I find myself that anyone would take their time to comment. Apparently I am in good company ;\)

So ok

 Quote:
In what manner is it juvenile? There's a ton of arbitrary laws that people do not abide by.


because I find it in poor taste and sorta “loud”. Aesthetics? Never kiss and tell? If than makes sense – not sure how else to put it (something about stealth), but it is typically that adolescent attention craving mentality that … well… fingers a girl and claims to be a mac-daddy; sells an eighth to a friend and screams “I’m a drug dealer!”; drowns a cat and is suddenly “a cold blooded killer”. You see it in novels, and if perchance you actually happen to meet someone who has actually killed someone, say, dodging bullets in Afghanistan… they tend not to enjoy talking about it. ‘Just an observation…

 Quote:
Is it reckless because you believe you'll be plucked out of a line up for having provocative ideas?


Yeah, it is reckless for that and a myriad of other legal reasons. Anything you say can and will be used against you. Me personally? I have nothing to hide, but still.

 Quote:
So, because it's protected its safe? If you're worried about your society holding you accountable, Rights are just privileges allotted to you.


well, we disagree on this angle, but only slightly. If Satan is god’s archetypal prosecutor then it would be fair to say that justice – this impossible ideal – humankind’s ideal – of justice is, as you’d say, “prime”.

Oh sure, no doubt, it does not exist in nature – but it is among the highest of human ideals. Supplanting nature with human concepts is, to me, pretty fucking satanic; “but that is another story and will be told at another time” ;).

Back to the point; freedom of speech is neither protected nor safe, which is why I am all the more emphatic – I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it… still some of the shit they say kinda makes things a bit more difficult.

It becomes this weird grey area where “responsibility to the responsible” has no real meaning. In one ear are all these poetic homages to the “other who provides cohesion” and in the other are these rants… public rants… that very well endanger not only the authors but who take that shit seriously.

 Quote:
The way I see it, you're already associated with an account.
you see it properly, so now what?

*as for the "satanic panic" I am like 120% certain (give or take +/- 5%) that it was not at all fun or games. Like war... like killing.


Edited by antikarmatomic (01/02/14 08:52 PM)
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#83764 - 01/03/14 10:09 AM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Kemble]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3115
 Originally Posted By: Kemble
Int'l law is a different category and side steps the question. I was focusing on personal conduct supporting, associating with, and engaging in criminality on county, state and federal levels ala "ona" or whatever. All patently stupid and adolescent. Looks like 600 participants are on board with that stuff -- not my cup of tea.

The LHP represents antinomian practice and indulgence into carnal behaviour (among a few other things). Yes, it would mean a certain engagement into, what is considered, criminal behaviour on a variety of levels.

But it is safe to assume most prefer to spread ideological memes instead of practicing antinomian behavior. I would even say there are groups/people out there who think the creation of such memes should be considered as "antinomian". But I think they belong to the philosophical trash department (i.e. they're mere talk).
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#83771 - 01/03/14 06:45 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Online
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1760
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
Culling is a 'taboo', even for Satanists. It's fear generated,


I don't think it is a taboo here. On the contrary, it has been discussed ad nauseam and nobody seems to be afraid to throw in their two cents. Actually, it's quite refreshing to see someone jump in and say "I don't like culling." Most people are like: "Oh it's all right, more it's cool! Fuck the government and the police! Fuck the law. Why not kill someone if I want to?" While browsing through the forums you would think nearly everybody is a serial killer, if you didn't know that people like showing off.

It is a nice topic to discuss, controversial and interesting, but seriously... If someone were a murderer, would he even take part in a discussion like this? Would he advocate or justify killing in a public forum like this one?

 Quote:
which is why a lot of the ONA MSS smacks of challenge. The gauntlet is laid down and it's pretty amusing to vet out what people really think.


C'mon. What's up with you? Would you like some honesty? Go ask people who got through this shit, like the war survivors, refugees, people who were forced to kill in self-defense, people who witnessed killing. What would they say, if you asked them: What do you think of culling?

Oh dude. It was badass! What a freaking adventure. Wish this would happen again. So cool! LOL

Would they say something like this? Probably not. It is also probable they wouldn't be willing to speak at all. Who knows? They could even throw up.
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#83815 - 01/05/14 01:08 PM Re: The Current State of the ONA? [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6673
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
C'mon. What's up with you? Would you like some honesty? Go ask people who got through this shit, like the war survivors, refugees, people who were forced to kill in self-defense, people who witnessed killing. What would they say, if you asked them: What do you think of culling?


Take incarceration for life or the death penalty as an example. If a person believes that the subject is deserving of cruelty and death, that's exactly what they receive and with distilled apathy.


More often than not, a 'victim' of brutality will seek nothing but brutality in return for the assailant, in spite of having witnessed it or experienced it (directly or indirectly).

 Quote:
The particular ONA criteria are that some humans, by nature, by character, are rotten – worthless – and, when this rotten character is revealed by their deeds, it is beneficial to remove them, to cull them.


By a societal standard, there is criteria for rotten citizens and they are culled daily while other citizens bear witness and believe them deserving of it.

 Quote:
It is also probable they wouldn't be willing to speak at all. Who knows? They could even throw up.


The lack of willingness to speak up and out, to act from a specific set of character traits takes complete and utter insubordination to the system of civilization. Lawlessness.


 Quote:
It is a nice topic to discuss, controversial and interesting, but seriously... If someone were a murderer, would he even take part in a discussion like this? Would he advocate or justify killing in a public forum like this one?


Last time I checked, the death penalty was abolished in Poland in 98' prior to that, you are a by-proxy conspirator of murder and yet you believe your hands are clean. ;\)
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