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#537 - 09/21/07 04:12 PM Dumber and Dumber
MCSA TEK Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 97
Loc: Orlando Fl USA
Students Know Less After 4 College Years

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2007/200907_b_students.htm

Article Snippet

"At the most expensive colleges, they actually graduate knowing less," the executive director of the Jack Miller Center at the Intercollegiate Studies Institute, Michael Ratliff, said. "Colleges and universities are not directing students to the courses that would educate them. We want to know whether after getting $300 billion to do their work, universities are actually educating their students."

Less than half of the students who participated identified the phrase "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal" as a line from the Declaration of Independence. Many of them identified its source as "The Communist Manifesto," or said that it was an inscription on the Statue of Liberty.

"History has a pragmatic value," Mr. Foner said. "You are acquiring skills that are desired by employers an ability to write, analyze material, and produce your own point of view.

END





I recommend reading the entire story. Its an interesting read.


It is true, Companies want you educated enough to be "trainable" in your position, But not educated enough to be a threat or a problem.

I um umeriKan. I r free.

Chris
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#539 - 09/21/07 06:16 PM Re: Dumber and Dumber [Re: MCSA TEK]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
...living proof of the broadening relevancy of the old Harvard adage that the university is a storehouse of knowledge because "the freshmen bring so much and the seniors take away so little."

I'd never heard that until now, but if that's the case, I am expressly glad that I have not wasted the time, money nor energy to attend college. I also find that as I get older and (hopefully) wiser, my interest in local and national politics has increased, as well as my participation in keeping up with relevant issues, voting, and developing a more critical eye when it comes to electing a polictian. Not to mention my own rights as a US citizen.

Learning never ends unless one chooses to do so, and that doesn't just apply to history.

Thanks for posting this.
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#571 - 09/22/07 11:37 PM Re: Dumber and Dumber [Re: Nemesis]
MCSA TEK Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 97
Loc: Orlando Fl USA
I couldn't have said it better myself.

(warning bad language)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccYoVnBc_fk
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#717 - 09/28/07 02:45 PM Re: Dumber and Dumber [Re: MCSA TEK]
Draculesti Offline
Impaler
member


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 325
Loc: Rockville, Maryland
This study, while relevant, is hardly fair. The scope is limited; the study seems to omit that though students may be lacking in certain areas such as American history or American politics, many hold degrees in specialized fields. After all, that is what a major is for. Many colleges require students to take a broad range of classes, regardless of their major. As Jeremy Adelman said, in most instances, students are required to take only one history class (unless they are, of course, a history major) and that one class does not have to be in American History. This is a case of personal interest, I think. Maybe I'm unpatriotic, but I find ancient civilizations more fascinating than American history. When I did my undergrad, I didn't take a history course in American history. I took World History 1300-1900 and then a course on the history of Soviet Russia. My major, however, was music performance, specifically on the classical guitar. So, the majority of my studies had to do with music, including music history, beginning with what little is known about the music of the Ancient Greeks and moving on into the Middle Ages through to modernity. Now, while I may not have learned much in certain areas, I learned much in my specialized field. Very often, a truly dedicated student has little time outside his/her major field of study to devote to unrelated topics, especially in the cases where the major field of study already requires much work outside class.

On the other hand, this is also an issue of personal dedication. Some students are dedicated to their studies, and some aren't. Plain and simple. I knew many from my graduating class who went to college simply to hang out and party; while one does have to cut loose once in a while, many students take it too far and their studies suffer. As a result, they're not the best students. While I may not have partied much in school and perhaps missed out on certain things, I realized early on that this was for my future, and I now have a degree to show for it.

Knowing little of American civics is a far cry from the implications of a generalized statement that "students know less after four years of college."
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#900 - 10/04/07 03:27 PM Re: Dumber and Dumber [Re: Draculesti]
Veldrin Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/04/07
Posts: 55
Loc: Melbourne, Australia.
Does this reflect the changing nature of today's world?
From my experience it seems like people place less value on learning (Might be biased due to the areas I live in).
But while I was in school, most classes I attended were filled with ignorant children spending their time skipping class, sleeping or numerous other activities.

Taking an example, at the end of high school, kids were unable to spell simple five letter words. I can only worry about what is becoming of our world. I had to stop learning due to people not keeping up. The same lecture and lesson repeated three or more times, tends to wear on ones patience.
The school had to be shut down only recently due to lack of funding, due to a simple lack of passing scores. I went back there recently to have a chat and get my passport in order. Finding that most teachers have left to other schools because of the frustration of being unable to teach such students...It's mind boggling.

College has always been the "party" age. For doing all those things you ever wanted to try, but to be serious, that's not the end goal.
Have fun by all means, take a break all that.
But to be educated, and to learn is a gift that too many squander these days.

What about today has changed from the past? What trend is bringing down the education level of society?

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#984 - 10/08/07 04:24 PM Re: Dumber and Dumber [Re: Veldrin]
Draculesti Offline
Impaler
member


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 325
Loc: Rockville, Maryland
I think a major issue that I alluded to, but failed to elaborate upon, was the issue of outside work at home. Though you don't have an area listed under your screenname, I have an idea of what you're talking about. I came from a, to put it kindly, "podunk" area, though my family was originally from where I am now. Even where I came from, it wasn't as bad as some areas.

Anyway, the issue to which I am referring is the fact that many parents expect their kids to learn EVERYTHING at school, even down to basic manners and interpersonal skills as well as sexual education, all things which should be learned AT HOME. I came from a household where my education was supplemented at home. I was encouraged to read (indeed, I loved to, and still do), and my mother would fill my head with historical facts that we just simply didn't learn at school. That's not to say that I was home-schooled; I was not. I went to a public school (such as it was) that was filled with many idiots (including the teachers). However, there were several others like me as well (some, I daresay even smarter than me). I think that many parents are not as involved in their child's education as in the past. Of course, I don't mean that in a generalizing a way as it sounds. Of course, I know there are some parents who are deeply involved in their childrens' educations (and those are the children who tend to excel).

Another issue is that, for some inexplicable reason, there is still, in this country at least, a stigma associated with being knowledgeable (which is sort of what you were saying when you said that people place less value on learning). If you know things, you are a nerd. Perhaps it is some holdover from Christianity that knowledge is sinful and ignorance is a virtue? The devaluation of learning seems to be also prevalent in farming communities, as the children are expected to, when they come of age, to help out around the farm and eventually take it over when the parents retire/die, for which there is little need of learning in school.
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