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#54382 - 05/12/11 06:06 PM Re: Pragmatism [Re: Diavolo]
Thule Offline
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Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 68
Actually that's my problem- I actually believed that working hard led to success!

Most places I worked I would do the job of two people, be the most competent and most reliable. Usually I got treated worse than others. People mostly get jealous and try to destroy you if they see you are superior. I learned quickly that when working at loser jobs I got treated better by being lazy and playing stupid (so I blend in with everyone else). There is absolutely no way possible I can "work my way up" a minimal wage job. They always say the CEO or management did that but it's a total lie they use to sell people on being good slaves.

I also moved up to management (like shift leader) at one point I worked at a job that owed me 3 different raises and never saw them on my pay check. Nearly every place I worked had incompetent management and border line retarded/illiterate co-workers. A few people move up because they smoke weed with the boss or f*(&^ somebody, but it has nothing to do with competence.

This is what created my radical transformation in ideas. Always being a loner I realized social skills meant more than competence.

Anyway good jobs wont hire people without some kind of reference. I could easily be trained and make big money but it's hard to find someone to do it.

I actually told companies I will work for free if they train me for management. And they refuse to train me. They always want to be put me in some "shift leader" position and pay me the same.

Then later they whine and cry that they can't find managers and lose money as a result. Most companies are run by morons, any half way competent person can do better.

One company refused to spend $10,000 replacing their old scales. 3 months later they went bad and they lost $20,000 shutting the plant down and had to pay another $30,000 for an emergency replacement. *geniuses*

Then I go to college and get As in business management courses while being half asleep. Even though these courses are harder than the basic management training I have begged to receive, even though these companies would rather lose money than actually pay someone. Their greed costs them.

I realized the problem is I live around morons and failures and this pulls me down.

Success is not what you know- it's who you know. It took me about 10 years in the "real world" to start seeing things the right way rather than this work hard BS people always fed me.

That's the whole point of what I'm doing. Really if the people I worked with weren't total retards for example if we worked at a restaurant we could pull our resources, buy the store, manage it ourselves and pay ourselves about 5 times what we normally make to do the exact same job!

Life should be relatively easy but it is usually very hard because of self destructive people. They throw a rock through their window then whine and cry how cold it is with a broken window. They screw up their own lives then cry crockadile tears about how unfair life is. I guess I could sit around slitting my own wrists and be like them then I would get a big check from the government every month or something.

I actually met a lot of people who can't read or write or do basic math. It's all about moving up into a higher class of people (through the private society and being educated).

But yeah I'm at a severe disadvantage due to debt. I already have an associate degree and lots of credits. But even with the debt I'm better off than going nowhere because of other people.

They have a program where I only need to pay 10% of my income or so a month. Also the job I'm going for starts out at about $27 an hour whereas before I was making around $7 an hour, so it is an entirely differnet lifestyle, night and day. Sure take 15% of my $27 an hour if you have to. I'm still making $20 an hour opposed to $7. But more importantly- god the most important thing- I can work around people who act human!!

Yes people that can write their own name and know what 2+2 equals. I can't put a price tag on that. It's the most important thing in the world to me.

The problem is usually I do what I'm supposed to do, then the others around me don't. Then I end up quitting or something and this makes me look bad. It gives me a bad work history. (like when I come in and the boss wants to start a fist fight with me and I just walk out rather than deal with irrational monkeys). There's nothing I can do about other people. I can't change them. And living in ghetto environments most people are totally irrational losers- again the point of having an exclusive society.

As soon as I get money I'll be one of those people living in a "gated community". I want to be as far away from the losers as possible. I only go online and talk to people in public because I don't have a circle of friends yet. Otherwise I would never waste time with people I don't know.


Edited by Thule (05/12/11 06:11 PM)
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#54414 - 05/13/11 08:06 PM Re: Pragmatism [Re: Thule]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
It will be in your best interest to conquer some issues.

Yes there are many losers out there but if you lock yourself up trying to escape from them, guess who will end up being the loser? In doing that, you give them more power than they deserve. I'm not a people's man but I still go out and mingle. Even when many encounters are as intellectually stimulating as watching paint dry, it is the only manner finding those more rewarding, networking and discovering new opportunities. It is seldom people get to me; when needed I switch off half my brain and participate in conversations that don't even store in my short term memory.

Many out there are also a great resource to gather income and often the weaker they are, the more valuable they become.

Hermits only end up as experts in being alone.

D.

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#54456 - 05/15/11 04:18 AM Re: Pragmatism [Re: Diavolo]
Dark Beauty Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 13
Contrary to our social collectivist brethren, solitude or hermetic tendencies are very necessary to the self-mastery, advanced intellect, and exploring of creative potential. Many who have earned the title of being an innovator, cutting-edge, and/or revolutionary, acquired these ideas in the absence of others. Great composers, scientists, artists, or otherwise all have undergone an hermetic phases which inevitably led to the status, success, or reward that they later acquired.

In the first place, many are too ignorant to learn to make their interactions count. Associate with great minds and remember that only valuable numbers/people count. Success is dependent upon quality over quantity.

What value is gained from spending precious time with those who encompass the lower part of the social totem pole? Those who wander aimlessly about, mingling with anything or anyone, seeking social validation or just any sort of validation are weak--let's call them what they are.

Whatever one does in life should be purposeful. There is no glory or praise to be surrounded by those inferior unless you are planning some sort of attack, battle, or winning, keeping in mind their disposable nature. Otherwise, inhibiting one's own intellectual advancement by contributing and subjecting themselves to the group dumbing down process is not a King's move; you're just another social pawn who will inevitably be knocked off the board.

If you choose to be alone, make it work for you. Read more, branch out into fields and areas of study or training which are outside of your comfort zone. Build your life around that knowledge, seeking out those who are wiser, experimental, and more successful than yourself. Then study these people. Socialize with these people–––not the coffeehouse turd, status quo seeker, or social underclassmen–– Satanists included. Treat these people like a disease, you can always get them to do your bidding later .

Learn to use introversion and extroversion skillfully, and to your benefit. Too much exposure for anyone, unless having already gained a high level of status, only makes them appear socially weak, common, and unimportant. Even losers don't want to hang out with other losers.
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#54476 - 05/15/11 11:33 AM Re: Pragmatism [Re: Dark Beauty]
Thule Offline
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Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 68
I don't plan to be a hermit, quite the contrary I'm working on better social skills and social networking. However there is no benefit of me living next to someone who will break in my house and rob me or having a "friend" who contributes nothing to my life but only wants to parasite off me. That is the elite principle I would like a circle of friends who have some value.

We are built on an altruistic principle- a synergy of sorts- I contribute something to their life, they contribute something to me, we all continue to build each other's power. however when we waste energy on low altruism and low quality people all that effort basically gets tossed into the trash bin. They become a black hole of success and energy. By contrast a high altruism person will actually multiply each other's efforts.

I have lived my whole life around useless degenerates. They are a dime a dozen. Why I'm going out in every place I can find talking about my goals is to find those few people who are looking for something similar.

One problem is that the successful usually don't talk much, they are busy working on projects so don't have much time to meet new people or conversely they are only seeking out those richer or more powerful than themselves, or they already have social networks. Secondly I'm poor, despite my ability, it makes me seem less appealing to all people. However I seek to attract people who understand the value of my vision and the obvious benefits it can reap.

Of course within this context I can exploit the weaklings through business etc. but not by making them my trusted colleagues or close neighbors.

I believe the intellectually oriented people do enjoy some time alone and in silence to reflect though. I have spent most of my life alone, reading books etc. I'm ready to move on to more concrete things, networking etc. though.

Dark beauty: exactly. Quality over quantity that's why I'm looking to find close associates. Not only quality but also in many cases similarity in world view, goals etc. is necessary.



Edited by Thule (05/15/11 11:37 AM)
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#54490 - 05/15/11 04:15 PM Re: Pragmatism [Re: Thule]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I hope you notice the fundamental flaw in this sort of logic: if you only socialize with the successful and avoid the losers, why would these successful socialize with you? In their eyes, you're also a loser and if they follow the same logic, they'll avoid you like the plague.

D.

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#54500 - 05/16/11 04:12 AM Re: Pragmatism [Re: Diavolo]
Dark Beauty Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 13
The only fundamental flaw is in thinking there isn't at least one person whom you can appeal to. You have more to lose by remaining in a comfort zone with social leeches, psychic vampires, and the overly-social irritant, than you would in trying to promote your business ideas to those whom could possibly offer assistance. One drags you to their level, and the other, even if in failure, allows one to improve and strengthen your tactics.

The assumption has been made that one is aware of their talents and has something of value to contribute, rather than mindless, thought draining, sycophantic chit chat. The wealthy and successful admire and respect talent, tenacity, and courage–– since that is a shared fundamental commonality between them. You are not a threat to someone who has already achieved their success when you're just beginning, so you're chances of having them as an ally is that much greater.

The successful like others with original ideas, and often if evident that one is serious in their pursuits, and may offer some support (financial, a contact, or otherwise) for your endeavors. This is elementary when you expand your social contacts, is the power of networking, and learning how to "play well" with others.

I can only speak from my experience, as this has been mine. I'd rather be lonely at the top than inhaling the stench of failure, with plenty of company, at the bottom.
_________________________
"I'm not who you think I am, nor what you think I should be."

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#54508 - 05/16/11 10:24 AM Re: Pragmatism [Re: Dark Beauty]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
The most common problem in gathering money is that most people are one-trick ponies; they focus solely on one option. I hardly care about money but I learned that if money is what you have in mind, opportunities are what you should look for. Not one opportunity but anything worthwhile which comes along. As such, the most important part, the true fieldwork is networking. And it is not by focusing on the successful alone you encounter opportunities, but often people that are hardly successful reveal opportunities too.

Personally I don't classify people as “winner” or “loser” based upon their financial status. What kind of a person someone is makes them interesting. I hardly care if they are wealthy or broke and am secure enough to not have anyone “drag” me down.

D.

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#54517 - 05/16/11 11:29 AM Re: Pragmatism [Re: Diavolo]
Thule Offline
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Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 68
Note: understand this is not totally about making money and increasing power. That's one aspect of it. It is about being around similar people. It is about community.

Humans are social creatures. We all socialize. What differs is how we do it.

I have discovered that rich people more or less organize exactly as my Hraftzer group. I thought what we were doing was strange at first because mainly I've lived in the lower portions of society.

Going around millionaire areas every other block is an "exclusive" club (country club or some sort). Almost all politicians, wealthy businesmen etc. are part of a "private society" such as a college fraternity, free masons, and so on.

There's really nothing unusual about it and there are probably over 100,000 such clubs. Only major difference is we aren't rich.

But usually its the poor but motivated who have the best ideas. I once read that. Some wealthy businessman said he would rather hire someone who has been poor and worked himself up instead of a highly educated person who was born in wealth. Because those who were poor have more drive and see the world more completely.

So the only unique angle really is just every group has its own culture and personality. Some people can join the masons or some other group we are just one of many. In fact I encourage people to join many such groups. I might join the masons or something myself and later get involved in various clubs if they benefit me.

So a big difference is successful people usually have social clubs that involve making money. meanwhile maybe poor people join the KKK or the Crips and Bloods or some other criminal gang. Or maybe they join a video game club or dress up like harry potter in their medieval reenactment club. Our club is a little more cultured and focused on wealth, empowerment, manifesting etc. And also we dont live around a lot of people who are the same as us so we have to stick our necks out to meet people.

So back to the thread- pragmatism. More elite groups are pragmatic. They want to go out and accomplish something. They want to do better everyday. They exercise. They constantly learn. They are cultured, they are striving for excellence. The lower class clubs just sit around talking, complaining, trying to sound smart without accomplishing anything, or just focusing on mostly killing time with games or other such things.

That's what I meant I'm looking for pragmatic people. Like someone who will meet me in real life and go in on a business deal with me. Or someone who wants to meet once a week and train in martial arts or do yoga. Goal oriented, focused on self improvement and results.

Online a lot of people talk non-sense which would not hold up in the real world. They just get online to kill time. It's that pragmatism that I'm looking for because I want to better my life.

I don't have a TV now. I threw it out. It wastes too much of my time. I don't want to waste my life away. I want to get the most out of life. It's not about working hard all the time- I have met people with two jobs that work 24 hours a day. no.

It's about focusing on self improvement but also enjoying the finer things in life. And our group are mainly intellectuals so we work with what gifts god gave us- we can plot and scheme our way to wealth through cooperation.

There is a spiritual principles as well- being part of something larger than yourself, so that it carries on after you die. It is also a better basis for raising a family (being part of a community, culture etc.)

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
I hope you notice the fundamental flaw in this sort of logic: if you only socialize with the successful and avoid the losers, why would these successful socialize with you? In their eyes, you're also a loser and if they follow the same logic, they'll avoid you like the plague.

D.


Exactly. This is the main problem. If you are rich and I am poor then you are going to be very skeptical about my competence and ability.

At the same time when I go to poor people they are too stupid and unmotivated. This is the main reason we don't have a lot of numbers.

Our target demographic are people like us- poor, but intelligent. Motivated. Very few fit this score. My parents and family are losers. That's why I'm in this mess. Any healthy people with intelligence would be successful in any Western nation.

Yet I continue to build up my credentials via things like education. I continue to build my wealth and appeal to as many people as possible. Over time we grow.

Really a group as small as 5 people would be able to accomplish a lot. There is no need for huge numbers. Of course it would always be nice, but not needed.

But it's not a flaw of logic. Even so, there will be a few people who are rich who will like me or see the logic in what I'm doing and say "hey I feel like getting involved". As well there might be some poor person with a functioning brain cell occasionally that is maybe interested. What you stated above though is what excludes about 98% of people from the group.

Of course once it starts growing and is successful then everyone wants to join. All groups more or less start this way.





Edited by Thule (05/16/11 11:47 AM)
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#54634 - 05/17/11 10:49 PM Re: Pragmatism [Re: Thule]
paolo sette Offline
member


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
 Originally Posted By: Thule
There is a spiritual principles as well- being part of something larger than yourself, so that it carries on after you die.


I got some ideas I have to share about money and groups:

To materially prosper: You have to attack the most vulnerable spot in any system. For two things, you have to continuously work on your group's psychology and dire attempts subsequently are made to create a subjective attitude corresponding to that of genuine philosophically-disposed or religiously-directed Mind(s). The latter has a strong inner prompting while the former is only desirious of following a leader. The imitator is lacking in the needs as is demonstrated by the desire to follow something.

All that you need is to be helped by some internal means.

No doubt Satanism completes the picture when the discipline is properly guided by an experienced Satanist. Thus properly guided, the imitator may some day hope to become a genuine member of the group. But, there is one thing which requires a full recognition on the part of every devotee: This is to remeber that each group you form is an expression of Intelligence and that every such expression gains significance only when it is associated with the Self.

Sedit
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