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#53968 - 05/05/11 02:53 PM Re: </OSAMA> [Re: Dave Pellani]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: Dave Pellani
It always seems that the "rat" is often an insider who has an Axe to grind with someone in the organization. That's how things get leaked from the US military.


From what I read it seems they got the info at Gitmo where someone revealed the identity of one of Bin Laden's trusted couriers. From him the trail led to his hide-out.

I'm pretty sure it didn't take Margheritas to clenched his thirst while gathering that information.

D.

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#53985 - 05/05/11 08:37 PM Re: </OSAMA> [Re: SinisterMoon]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: SinisterMoon
Here's the heretical reality, IMO.

A bunch of heavily armed men shoot dead an unarmed old man, in poor health, in a private house, killing several other people in the process.

Then those who sent to these men to kill - murder? - this man boast that *it's justice*.

Now, imagine what people would have said if a bunch of heavily armed Muslims had burst into the house of, let's say, Tony Blair and shot him dead and killed a member of Blair's family in the raid. Why killed him? Because they blamed Blair for the death of hundreds of thousands of Muslims in Iraq and believed that by killing him it *was justice*.

These Muslims then take away Blair's body and dump it at sea.

You've got to admire the hypocrisy of the likes of Obama now, haven't you?



Awww, poor OBL, and his "innocent friends" that were gathered in his compound/house. It's not like he wasn't known for killing people or anything and boasting about it himself. At least that SEAL team took out close people to him and not 1000's of innocents that had absolutely nothing to do with him at all with 4 planes. That SEAL team didn't put an entire nation literally on "hold" for days on end wondering what else could happen. Hell, Afghanistan does it all by itself and needs no help from our military. But feel free to sympathize if you must.

I personally wish we'd just blow the shit out of them, be done with the bullshit over there and take control of the oil. If you're going to invade a country then run the fucker and quit rebuilding them for people that don't give a shit what happens to you or your country. Or better yet, the next asshole that gets into control of the country decides your country has a huge bulls eye on it now (which he never would have seen that power had it not been for someone else taking out the previous asshole!). Take out powerful people, rebuild and help for that? NOPE. Either take it over completely or get the hell out and let them destroy themselves, because they eventually will. Whether by threatening the US enough that we finally do blow them up, or by killing themselves off. I don't care which. But no more just "giving out a helping hand" every time a country beckons or when they don't "like" their leaders any more and can‘t get off of their own asses to take care of the problem.

You'd have a legitimate comparison IF Tony Blair had several cohorts take control of 4 planes and fly them into...say....several huge international complexes in Afghanistan and killed 1000's of people in the name of whatever deity he found fun to entertain. Or even blown up a transit station, or 2. But that hasn't happened, now has it? Oh wait…he did send men and women to war against the person that did stake claim to doing those exact things. Didn’t he? His was a reaction to OBL’s action. A lot of Muslims didn’t agree with OBL either. Obvious by the “leak” that lead to him finally being killed and a number of previous “leaks“ that have killed several of his higher leaders in his little group.

I'm glad OBL is dead and I'll watch to see which one of his cronies takes his place so the US government can keep their boogeyman alive and well. They’ll need it to keep the sheeple in line now that this boogeyman is dead and tossed out to sea (which even that was too good for him). The boogeyman keeps them distracted from what really needs to be addressed. But hey, what the hell….it’s only America after all, and Obama really did need the voters' boost.
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#53994 - 05/06/11 05:32 AM Re: </OSAMA> [Re: The Zebu]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3119
It occurs to me that many people like to point at hypocrisy and while doing so are exactly doing that. Even more fun to wade trough the pages of different views and takes on the whole action with the very beginnings of new conspiracy theories. (And I'm honestly waiting what some conspirationists are trying to come up with now..).

As far as I'm concerned, a iconized symbol for evil to the West and a face for extremist Islam has been erased from existence. Who will be the next face of "prime evil"? I agree with Sinistermoon on the point of "Highly trained soldiers killed an old ill man". Add the 10 fucking years of searching after that guy and it will be quite clear who the real losers are. It doesn't even matter he got killed, taking all actions in consideration UBL is still leading with a final score of 2-1.

The announcement of Obama was nice since it displayed a high level of diplomatic thinking.
Just another guy who's dead, life goes on.


Edited by Dimitri (05/06/11 05:33 AM)
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#53997 - 05/06/11 09:57 AM Re: </OSAMA> [Re: Nyte]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Nyte
It's not like he wasn't known for killing people


*Known for* is different from proven by due process of law. One hypocrisy here - for those who reason - is that the US gov and its officials and minions boast about their way of life based on such a due process, yet when it suits them the process gets ignored.

That said, the US has killed far more people than OBL ever did - in Iraq and Afghanistan. Far more *civilians* than OBL ever did. How many *civilians* have been killed by US drone attacks in the past two years? I bet you don't even know. But that's *collateral damage* while the deaths OBL *may* have been responsible for are *terrorism*.

Rhetoric aside, the undisputed fact is that a heavily armed group with air support and assisted by advanced technology killed an old unarmed man whose guilt was not proven by the due process these killers and those in their chain of command believe in an uphold, at least in theory and in propaganda.

It proves again that western governments have one law for their people and another for anyone who dares oppose them - and this is one of the many factors that, as the saying goes, will come back to bite them and be one of the very many causes of the decline and fall of their empire in the next 200 years (if not before).

So let the mundanes have their emotive, hollow, celebrations at the killing of an unarmed man. Some of us will stand back and see the aeonic picture.

 Originally Posted By: Nyte
I personally wish we'd just blow the shit out of them...I'm glad OBL is dead


Like I said in another reply here, I prefer to take a long term historical and aeonic view. OBL was but in a link in a chain that goes back over a hundred years. OBL wasn't the cause - he was symptom. The cause lies elsewhere. But few seem to understand this, so the cycle, as someone on this thread said, goes on.

Anyways, I've had my heretical rant - which won't change anyone's views - so as far as I'm concerned, I have nothing more to say on this topic.

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#54002 - 05/06/11 11:59 AM Re: </OSAMA> [Re: SinisterMoon]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"It proves again that western governments have one law for their people and another for anyone who dares oppose them..."

No shit, survival of the fittest, might is right in action. It seems, Obama said he was going to do it while running for the job, and he did what he said he was going to do.

History is written by the winners.

Yes, war is a circle, etc...

Morgan
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#54011 - 05/06/11 03:17 PM Re: </OSAMA> [Re: Morgan]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
It's not "survival of the fittest" just because we assassinated an irrelevant old ideologue. Al-Qaida's principle goal in attacking the USA isn't about body counts or simplistic "eye for an eye" mentality. They have made it abundantly clear that their strategy is to provoke US invasion of Arab countries, thus inflaming anti-western sentiment and wearing us down militarily and economically.

For all intents and purposes, they did one hell of a job. And just when people were paying less attention to Bin Laden's antics, we did him the wonderful favor of granting him a martyr's death to make people starting thinking and sympathizing with him again.

In history, there are no winners.
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#54014 - 05/06/11 03:42 PM Re: </OSAMA> [Re: The Zebu]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Even when he was the West's biggest demon for some years, there was something admirable about the man. He had his vision and dedicated his life to it while he easily had been able to live the good life considering his background.

That he would be killed when the opportunity arose was a given and it indeed shows our hypocritical side. At the one hand we go to the Middle-East to “promote” our “values”, which are of course superb compared to theirs, but when we have the opportunity to get to a foe, we completely ignore all we pretend our “civilization” to be built upon. Not that it surprises or shocks me.

This isn't as much a war on anything as it is game which will only end when there is no opponent left. I'm curious if this will trigger even more disastrous actions. Knowing what is available out there and what is missing in certain bunkers, options might arise which will really trigger terror in us.

D.

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#54017 - 05/06/11 04:34 PM Re: </OSAMA> [Re: Diavolo]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
I'm curious if this will trigger even more disastrous actions.


No doubt it will, of the *causal terror* cyclic kind and from which a few people may learn something and so evolve. That's the only *meaning* and purpose of such terror. Oh yeah - apart from having fun with mundanes!

But the real, the effective, terror is acausal - *acausal terror*, a distinction which AL made, I guess from practical experience.

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#54033 - 05/06/11 09:10 PM Re: </OSAMA> [Re: SinisterMoon]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
General replies:

"It's not "survival of the fittest" just because we assassinated an irrelevant old ideologue."

My comment was in regards to the fact that this country will do as it wills because it can. That we use the laws when we feel like it, and disregard them when we feel like it.

Yes, we did go into a foreign country that has nukes and assassinate/take out a supposed unarmed man in front of his family. We didn't care about what happened next we just did it, because we had the knowledge and could do it.

In history there are always winners, they write the history books that aren't burned or destroyed, and rewrite the older books to make them more sympathetic to the current regime.

"This isn't as much a war on anything as it is game which will only end when there is no opponent left. I'm curious if this will trigger even more disastrous actions."

So true, and of course it will......

M
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#54067 - 05/07/11 07:11 PM Re: </OSAMA> [Re: Morgan]
Meph9 Offline
member


Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
I must agree that this is a purely symbolic victory for the nation, which is not going to have a tremendous impact on the country or the mid east. I find it entertaining that there are commentators arguing on whether to show the pic with his brain spattered everywhere as if that makes a difference.

This whole thing has me wondering don't we still have a giant debt problem? As guess it just goes to show that if you give congresspeople a chance to talk about nothing they'll take it every time.

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#54305 - 05/10/11 08:53 PM Re: </OSAMA> [Re: Meph9]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
Either way....the man is dead now. Hope you all enjoy the read.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13268517
_________________________
If only just for today.....

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#54309 - 05/10/11 09:16 PM Re: </OSAMA> [Re: Nyte]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
And for those that were worried about more attacks....well...it is written but we'll see how many really follow through. And see we shall....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13317717
_________________________
If only just for today.....

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#54364 - 05/12/11 11:38 AM Re: </OSAMA> [Re: The Zebu]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2524
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
A bit dated, but still an interesting listen ...

From a purely PSYOP perspective, a current faked "killing of ObL" has some interesting aspects. Obama needs a boost in his macho/antiterrorist image going into the election. Pumping yet more life into the al-Q bogeyman via faked "we'll get even!" messages revives American paranoia & support for the continued wars, etc. No body. No photos. No live capture [of an apparently unarmed old man] by several helicopters worth of SEALs (who had a red-carpet flight in/out of Pakistan ...
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Michael A. Aquino

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#54366 - 05/12/11 11:46 AM Re: </OSAMA> [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
A potentially interesting figure, and whom I didn't really know, is his son Hamza Bin laden who apparently managed to escape during the raid. He has been carefully trained as his successor and is obviously very very pissed right now.

I wonder if he'll make daddy proud.

D.

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#54367 - 05/12/11 12:24 PM Re: </OSAMA> [Re: Diavolo]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
A potentially interesting figure, and whom I didn't really know, is his son Hamza Bin laden who apparently managed to escape during the raid. He has been carefully trained as his successor and is obviously very very pissed right now.

I wonder if he'll make daddy proud.


Considering all "daddy" did was sit admiring himself on television and writing plans in his notebook which none of his agents were able to turn into reality, I doubt it. Al-qaeda is an over promoted bag of hot air.
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